Coastal erosion thread

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velocityjohnno started the topic in Saturday, 15 Jun 2019 at 10:47am

There's not really a coastal erosion thread that I can see, beyond some excellent articles on the site. Post up examples you find in your area, and maybe how the sand banks and wave quality change.

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velocityjohnno commented Saturday, 15 Jun 2019 at 10:52am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-13/port-beach-buildings-in-danger-af...

There was many a session here for me in the 90's and 2000's in the corner getting out of the wind, and just up the stretch arguably had the best winter banks the metro area could offer. The port was always doing work on the place, so I figured that each time they did changed the sand, leading to starvation upstream. Old timers said this area had great little waves before the North Mole (sp?) was put in.

The article suggests that sand dumping 1890 to 1970 is now over, so Sandtrax will be eroded out, and it's accumulating at Leighton. A pity, I fondly remember the pyramidal wedges that would break off the rock wall.

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mowgli commented Wednesday, 17 Jul 2019 at 2:07pm

Hey Johnno,

Lots of Councils all along the Oz coast doing coastal management plans that take into account sea level rise. Basically, the higher MSL is, the further across the land storm waves can reach. Basic stuff. Here in QLD there's a big state run program going on called QCoast and there's something like 30 odd Councils involved in it, including the Gold and Sunny Coast councils. The issue proving most thorny for any council seems to be coastal erosion. Especially when you think about where the most exxy houses are...

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 17 Jul 2019 at 8:41pm

No worries Mowgli. Since I posted the thread we've had the Port Beach article here at Swellnet which was pretty good crowd-research, and it appears to be a man-made thing; now it seems the sand supply created by the dredging of Freo port is running out, much like how the Councils and Ports have noted. Solution is a sand pipe line from offshore channels to create a Perth Superbank Left :)

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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 18 Jul 2019 at 11:46pm

Wide open ended thread velocityjohnno...allows for Saltwater preface.
Crew wish to acknowledge Saltwater people up front as their history erodes first.

Oz wide Aborigines retell greatest erosion tales of highest seas coming & going.
These local stories are the most telling oldest tales of Climate Change.
We know of Ocean Events depositing sea creatures into Lagoons.
Also of Rain flooding Rivers breaking seaward thru Spits then flooding bays.
Part man - part Sea Creature to survive. Of headlands rising & Sea receding.
A world of ocean wonder of singing to sea creatures from changing landscapes.
https://theconversation.com/ancient-aboriginal-stories-preserve-history-...

Aboriginal Rock Structures are again the oldest & perfectly wed all these worlds.
Estuarine & River Mouth Fish Traps reshape & advantage merging environments.
Such structures are accessed by Sea Companions & Community to Campsite
100's of ancient harmonious arenas co exist in the heart of our surf breaks
https://newmatilda.com/2019/02/05/australia-one-oldest-human-made-struct...

Oz wide Aborigines prided their designer seascapes with visiting communities.
Each Rock pool of varied catch adorns their Surf God like a garland as a banquet.
All encompassing Sea festivals of up to 5,000 visitors from 500 mile radius.
Saltwater crew tendered the estuary & befriended the life within the Ocean.
Everything had to play a part equally for all to benefit, mindful not to impact next.

Saltwater crew micromanage whole landscape in order to rejuvenate coastline.
Erosion: Seasonal Fires kill weeds & natives are replanted + full fishing rights,
Giving Saltwater crew full rights enables 100% recovery with ongoing resource.
Aborigines will fully support themselves & detox our coasts...A Win! Win! for all.

Examples of Saltwater erosion repair lies within Government partnerships.

https://coastadapt.com.au/sites/default/files/case_studies/CS08_Indigeno...

https://eatlas.org.au/nwa/indigenous/guide

South East Country is a major work as in keeping with other S/E natural heritage.
https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/271c0bfc-34a2-4c6c...

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mowgli commented Monday, 22 Jul 2019 at 12:34pm

Thanks, TBB.

Big cultural impacts going on up in the Torres Strait too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-09/call-for-increased-flood-protecti...

I saw Mayor Gela speak recently and had a quick chinwag with him afterwards.

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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velocityjohnno commented Monday, 22 Jul 2019 at 6:32pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-22/climate-change-affecting-property...

A link from those above. Long time wisdom from my family who are from this area suggests that a lot of the development that has gone on in the last 50 or 60 years is in places that traditionally flood or become inundated during extreme cyclones or rainfall. In that sense it shouldn't have been developed in the first place, as family members recount enormous flooding. Oh well...

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Blowin commented Monday, 22 Jul 2019 at 6:56pm

Noosa replacing every little beach shack available with a resource sucking McMansion and encouraging tourists to cross the globe in order to crush load the place , all whilst moaning about climate change.

Put up or shut up.

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mowgli commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 2:18pm

Hahaha. Nice contribution to the discussion. Only very mild sarcasm intended on my part ;)

To my knowledge councils (and I guess Noosa is no exception, despite them feeling so special and unique in this world) have limited ability to restrict what kind of house gets build. They can only control the where and the size of the footprint. House design, for things like energy efficiency, suitability for regional climate etc., is covered by the QLD building code and some national building regulations. I actually know people at a council in SEQ and apparently a few have tried to get more control for this kinda thing at a council level and have always been knocked back by the state govt. Something tells me the builders assoc or similar could be having a hand in that somewhere.

And it’s bit much to saddle a council in the present day with the planning calls of councils from 30+ years ago. Especially when said decisions were made in the guns-a-blazin-develop-every-scrap-of-land days of that promulgator of ESD principles, Mr Bjelke-Peterson. The fact that Noosa, Sydney and a few hundred govts from around the world (entire nations no less) have declared the world is facing an impending climate emergency shows that they’ve finally woken up to what the science has said has been well and truly settled since 1992.

As I was trying to suggest above, I think we’ll see some interesting debates play out publicly on the whole caveat emptor side of things. I mean, if you build in the middle of the bushland in the Blue Mountains, and your house gets wiped out by a bushfire….who is to blame? We know that area gets hit in some shape or form every decade or so. You’d have to have been living under a rock to have never seen news items on this. Or not bothered to do your own homework before buying somewhere. Sure, they happen more often now thanks to psychopaths starting them, but even without human involvement they’ve always gone through there naturally (an ecologist will tell you this). I know someone who’s house was wiped off the map in Ash Wednesday, and the family vowed to never live on edge of bush again (and didn’t). So what about beachfront areas or flood plains? At what point do we as a society say – oi mate, nobody forced you to build there and you probably should’ve done a bit of homework. The insurance companies certainly take that approach…

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 2:40pm

I owned a block of land on the NSW coast up until quite recently and sold it primarily because of the covenants on the land which dictated MINIMUM house size ( !!!!! ) and approved housing construction materials which mostly entailed resource heavy and high impact products. . One of the covenants was that no second hand materials were to be used. I had to fight hard to get an exemption for rammed earth sourced from the site .

The reasoning was that it was a premium “ dress circle “ parcel of land and that house values may suffer if I didn’t adhere to the mindlessly conservative fashion of rendered brick .

This is the kind of crazy shit still going on in a society which has declared a global emergency.

It’s all green wash bullshit right up until you brush up against the realities of greed. Noosa council is still actively promoting itself as a tourist destination in the complete understanding of the pressures that humanity places on the environment both locally and globally during the tourism process.

It’s hypocrisy.

If you are going to talk the talk you’ve got to be prepared to walk the walk. Otherwise it’s just more of the same hollow virtue signalling.

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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 2:46pm

Wouldn't say it's "It’s all green wash bullshit right", that would suggest some overarching conspiracy, but it's more like multiple agencies with competing priorities. 

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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 2:52pm

the building covenants are determined by council yes?

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 2:55pm

This is a shire council housed in a single building we are talking about , not SMERSH*. They well understand what is involved and what’s at stake but if it compromises the river of gold via developers / fees / vested interests / lobbyists then it’s a sudden and terminal de prioritising of the environment.

*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH_(James_Bond)

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 3:16pm

It was a 5 acre block adjoining a coastal national park ( littoral rainforest) . It had been grazed on for years with introduced tree species . I wanted to build a little rammed earth place and fit it out with second hand materials as features. Then I was going to allow the reintroduction of the native forest .

The council assumed I was going to bring the neighbourhood down with a Steptoe and son style existence. They’d never seen rammed earth....

So I tried to educate them . Showing them places I’d built in the SW WA where rammed earth is prominent and appreciated. Tried to explain why I wanted to minimise the footprint of the build and the impact of materials used and about my intentions to reinvigorate the block as habitat instead of turning it into a Jamie Durie / Bunnings / The Block wet dream complete with a high maintenance and waterthirsty lawn.

They gave me blank stares and slack jaws.

They also gave me a million reasons why it wasn’t possible or encouraged. I probably could have got some compromise by throwing stacks of money at them and their pet consultants but I chose to sell instead.

Too much expense and headache. The area now looks like the suburb out of Edward Scissorhands only wth bigger blocks and more agaves.

Top of the bubble .....time to get out.

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philosurphizing... commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 6:07pm

Blowin
Did you ever have any issues with small black native bees digging into the rammed earth walls in W.A.
Here on the northern rivers of NSW they are a bit of a problem, I built a mud brick house making bricks that are 50% red clay and 50% sand and on one wall in particular the native bees started digging tunnels in the bricks and some of the bricks had so many holes they were like Aero chocolate. Some days there were a few hundred bees flying around next to the wall so I came up with the idea of using a vacuum cleaner with a flanged nozzle to suck them out of the air, I would have to do this for about 15 minutes each day mainly during spring.
The wall had the faint smell of honey.
My brothers mud brick house over in the next valley got attacked so bad he had to cement render all the outside walls.
The things you don't foresee when embarking on the owner builder journey.
I have also had big issues with termites getting into the floorboards via the pole frame.
Reckon if I built again with mud brick I would sit the poles up off the ground on big metal brackets and the mud brick walls between the poles would be sitting up off the ground on solid steel 'I' beams.

What shire does not allow rammed earth.

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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 7:47pm

That's such a bummer Blowin, your intentions for the block were admirable. Reminds me of the SW WA surfboard collector not being allowed to develop a museum, so he casts (sells) the boards to the wind (other collectors). Such a shame.

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 23 Jul 2019 at 9:26pm

Philo- Never seen a problem with the native bees on rammed earth . You’ve got to watch those termites though ! Admirable ambition when they are pursuing some tasty timber.

Those red clay bricks must’ve looked nice. Congrats on building your own home. I salute the effort.

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philosurphizing... commented Wednesday, 24 Jul 2019 at 8:21am

Cheers.
If I was 30 years younger and didn't have a crook back I would love to explore some of the building ideas that are out there today.
Kevin Mcclouds Grand Designs program is a wealth of information, reckon I've watched all the episodes, as well as the Ozzie and NZ versions.

The latest building method that I am fascinated by is Air crete dome homes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llsQL2bPWqY

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mowgli commented Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 at 5:11pm

As you're probably aware, each State and Council has different regs. So that sucks they didn't have the foresight to support your ambitions, Blowin. When was this? Perhaps times have changed?

As I said earlier, compounding planning regs are also building codes which are insanely outdated and not fit for purpose no matter how you slice it. Here in SEQ there's not an insignificant probability that a direct hit/serious graze from a cyclone could occur. But QLD's building code only mandates certain wind velocity ratings for structural integrity down to around Bundy/Maryborough (there's a specific latitude I believe). So since the last busy cyclone period in the 60s though mid-70s, we haven't really had much (serious) action down this way. But it's only a matter of time. But a shitload of non-cyclone-ready development has gone on in the intervening 40 years...so yeah, if you thought the insurance payout figures the last few TCs up in FNQ were big...

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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mowgli commented Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 at 5:29pm

Pciture of Clarkes Beach in Byron from early June. Quite a bit of erosion already there. I've seen and surfed similar in the past. Latest report sounds like much worse.

That line is 463m in length.

(hoping my imgur attempt works for once)

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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mowgli commented Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 at 5:35pm

12 months prior and looking very nice.

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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Craig commented Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 at 5:38pm

Wow great images there Mowgli, very very telling. Wouldn't wanna tell us your source of them? Even email?

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velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 25 Jul 2019 at 8:29pm

Those are really good Mowgli. I take it Google Earth wouldn't do such timely detail?

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mowgli commented Sunday, 28 Jul 2019 at 7:37pm

The website/service is called Nearmap. But you gotta pay for access.

They do developed areas. The more developed an area, the more frequent the imagery is taken. I'd like some of the more "remote" headlands up this way to have theirs taken just as regularly, but alas, a bunch of them are a couple years old now.

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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mowgli commented Thursday, 1 Aug 2019 at 12:08pm

Banks up at Noosa are pretty ace at the moment. This image was taken last week (24 July). My mate said that recent swell gave the sand on main beach a bit of flogging.

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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Craig commented Thursday, 1 Aug 2019 at 12:17pm

Very nice!!

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mowgli commented Thursday, 1 Aug 2019 at 3:16pm

All been a bit ordinary up the road in terms of banks IMO...

“Life is a long lesson in humility.”

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velocityjohnno commented Saturday, 3 Aug 2019 at 5:43pm

Again, great pics

Lots of winter swell (continuous it feels) has led to sand erosion on the local back beach and there are many rocks to navigate getting in and out of the water at present.

The weather pattern responsible seems to be a near constant westerly flow which bends offshore locally, so I expect the local sand is being heavily re-organised by wave action while not being affected by strong onshore winds.

I've heard a couple of people say that a dive site created in recent years has changed local sand, but that bit is beyond my level of local sandflow interpretative skills at present.

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Jamyardee commented Wednesday, 7 Aug 2019 at 2:01pm
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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 7 Aug 2019 at 9:15pm

Great story, those places are my formative surfing years. The birds of the Gero Marina are coming home to roost, to the north. Wonder what woes all the sand mining at Southgates will inflict on Mahomets in 20 years?