Submitted by PT73 on Fri, 11/18/2016 - 16:52
My fellow compatriots, I was a bit late to this Surf Europe Mag article (authored by an American) when I stumbled across it today, but couldn't help myself. Re my comment below the article, did I go too far?
No you didnt go to far.
it said there were no comments...
anyway, quite a few things wrong with the article...
the main conceit -- america founded by puritans, australia founded by convicts --
is wrong. this person don't even know their own country, let alone australia. sure the boston area was settled by puritans. but the philadelphia area was settled by quakers. philadpelphia is the cradle of the US, and it was founded by the most progressive people on earth -- 400 hundred years ago they championed equal rights for women and anti-war pacifism.
the US is far more open, tolerant and hedonistic than australia.
I don't think you went too far but you came across as a bit hyper-sensitve imo.
And you could have left politics out of it, it's irrelevent.
Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.
you were doing OK till you hit the Trump button , as we have Pauline Hanson who has 1/2 the intellect of Trump , has 4 senate seats , her popularity is going through the roof , whoever wins the QLD election will have to do a deal with One Nation /Pauline .
Tall Poppy syndrome is alive and well in Australia , we are a country in transition from Colonial thinking to becoming a ???
thank fuck we have the egalitarian impulse in Australia; where Jack is as good as his master....sometimes misnamed as the "tall poppy" syndrome.
Thats kept us relatively sane compared to the US where sycophancy and fawning over success has led to out of control egos and a kind of national mass insanity and vacuous celebrity culture has now taken over the whitehouse.
We should all stand up and applaud the so-called "tall poppy" syndrome. It's one of the greatest national characteristics we have. Let the wankers offended by it all go and live in the US where they can find the unquestioning adoration which their ego demands.
that's seems a generous reading, placing egalitarianism as the impulse behind the tall poppy syndrome.
it looks more like jealousy, resentment and suspision drive the tall poppy syndrome.
the urban, supposedly wealthy are resented by anyone outside the city, where it's impossible to get anything but a few hours of causal work a week. you even see it on here.
and don't forget australia is the place where if you go into the pub in the next town over, everyone just gives you surly stares till you leave.
Is there jealousy, resentment and suspicion of Mark Richards, Mick Fanning, Joel Parkinson?
I'd say overwhelmingly, no.
Is there jealousy, resentment and suspicion of Henry Lawson, Tim Winton, AC/DC etc etc etc?
There's so much success celebrated in the Australian culture....what we tend to denigrate are those whose egos or behaviour gets out of control.
The Nick Kyrgious and Bernard Tomics, not the Pat Rafters.
Wankers, in other words, and yes, I'd very much argue egalitarianism is the driving force there.
The US, by contrast, loves it's wankers. They've now elevated one to the highest office in the land.
The urban wealthy are resented by those in the country regions mostly because they behave like entitled wankers when they visit.
Go outback, sure you'll get stares but if you're a half decent human being you'll be making drinking pals in no time.
it must be nice to pull up at the dunedoo pub quoting henry lawson and have all the world as your friend.
i'm from the bush. it's not like that for locals. there's only one pub in town i can drink in. social stratification out there is deep, multi-generational.
I reckon you get recognition and respect in the US by achieving something and then talking about it. But you get those things in Australia by achieving something but staying quiet and letting everyone else talk about it.
I prefer our way of doing things but it can come with a bit of collateral damage when someone who just wants to be an individual and live life a bit differently might get accused of being too big for their boots and treated poorly for it (a sort of pre-emptive cutting of the tall poppy in case they think they can go ahead and big note themselves or preach at the rest of us). Whereas in the US individuality is accepted more, even in the redneck areas of the south, I'm told. The idea of, you do you - whatever that may involve - and the rest of us will leave you be if it doesn't affect us, is an aspect of US individualism that I like.
I reckon our rural brethren do this pretty well but some of our our city dwellers aren't so crash hot.
You get recognition and respect in the States now, for nothing more than making yourself famous.
Not by achieving anything of substance, but by building a brand and selling it to a gullible and adoring public who are desperate for some kind of meaning in a shallow consumer hyper-capitalist society.
That, thankfully, is less prevalent in Aus, mostly due to our egalitarian culture. We're simply less prone to swallowing bullshitt from wankers.
We'll celebrate real achievement, but we aren't putting the Kardashians up on a pedestal.
Thats a bit different to social stratification in small towns: a global phenomena. Do some reading on russian villages, or small british villages. Compared to that we have unlimited social mobility.
Yeah well, there's that too for sure!
In time tho, I'm sure the Kardashians will be our super heroes....
When was the last time you heard an Australian say, 'God Save the Queen' patriotically?
Who the fuck did this guy hang out with?
it's great to see people so positive about australian society. that in itself must count as a good thing.
it's not about being uncritically positive: Team USA, or Team Australia or any of that bullshitt.
It's about looking around the world, now and historically, realising there is no such thing as a perfect society and having an awareness that out of anyone, anywhere at any time if you were lucky enough to be born in Australia you've done pretty well.
How many people on these forums are actually white fellas VS immigrants /indigenous?
Tall poppy syndrome , laced with a hint of racism ( adam Goodes) , as Australia has a refugee policy akin to Nazi camps, our treatment of Muslims and other minority groups , AKA Hanson/one nation , yes Australia has some quality people representing them , Bolte/Bernardi/Abbott/Joyce/Price/Jones ...
I think the racism/treatment of indigenous is the great stain on our nation.
But I'm also hopeful that we'll see formal recognition of indigenous people in the constitution in this generation.
Still, racism is an endemic problem for the human species, it's in every country on earth. All things considered Australia has done pretty well incorporating different people into the country.
Doesn't change the essential point, Australia is pretty bugulwah
geez, a little parnaoid there freeride. it wasn't a backhanded insult.
the forces of fascism trade on pretty resentmens. people feeling positive is a good thing.
no worries Chook, I'm not an aussie oi oi oi cheerleader.
Just trying to get some perspective.
Racism is very ripe in the indigenous and muslim communities.
yeah nick , Australia has a real problem with racism , but it is a colonial leftover/hangover , which is slowly but surely been diluted through more immigration and the end of incestuous white breeding!
...and you're over-cooked Nick Nick Nick. Get a fork up ya. You're done!
Brand recognition catch-phrases #101:
USA: the American Dream.
Australia: the Fair go.
And P76, I concur 100% on your 'tall poppy' analysis. Have used the exact same examples myself in the past. It ain't what ya do, it's how you do it. Pre and post achievement.
Sharkman you are showing yourself as a right old racist. What's being diluted ?
All it is being replaced with is with even more racist with a attitude such as yours
Is all this immigration going to help with the racism in the indigenous culture? Are with trying to dilute as well?
a Nick , dilute the white is right, and move towards a real cosmopolitan society , which could be racist against the whites/KKK , and immigration and indigenous people have a common denominator , dealing with colonial attitudes !
As Chas' dad taught in PNG for 2 years when he was a kid I'm thinking he maybe the son of a missionary man. I've found its a mixed bag spending serious time overseas with Americans, some very nice, super friendly and self aware while others loudly bubble around like the stereotypical loud yank. On the flip side my (AU) mate spent 18 months back packing in South America in 2015/2016 and avoided Aussies and Poms like the plague the entire time he was on the road coz they were loud, culturally insensitive and mostly drunk/stoned. He trekked for weeks at a time in the wilderness with mostly Americans.
So what you are saying there are good racist and there are bad racist?
I thought a racist was a racist. Also what does the KKK have to do with Australia.
I just read the article, I thought it was alright. Some parts were good natured ribbing, other parts were reasonable critiques of our society.
We ain't perfect and we've got a lot we can learn from other societies and cultures. And there's no question the tall poppy syndrome does play out in a negative way in many parts of our world. Mediocrity loves company sometimes.
Be a wanker and we'll dismiss you and that's fair enough. But sometimes people do resent success here too. I think that's in part why it's a political liability in the eyes of some, to be rich and successful when running for office.
And that's why we have a wealthy investment banker running the country?
Sorry Benski, that makes no sense.
Anyway, from the latest Scanlon report into social cohesion. Large scale, Australia wide survey.
Markus comes back to his claim that Australia “is a country where the core is unified on fundamentals but in which there are strong minorities either side”. Does that core make us a conservative or progressive country? “It depends on the issue.”
The core is impressive. The 2016 survey shows 70% of Australians with no particular axe to grind with Muslims; 66% still believe taking migrants from many countries makes Australia stronger; 80% welcome refugees if they come the right way; and 83% reckon multiculturalism has made Australia stronger.
And Australia survived better than most the economic upheaval of the last half dozen years. “The terrible impact of the GFC across the board on employment, housing prices and so on – we didn’t have that in Australia.”
The 2016 survey shows nothing that’s befallen the nation lately has quenched Australia’s sunny optimism:
• 91% feel they belong in Australia
• 85% reckon they’ve had a happy year
• 79% see Australia as a land of opportunity where hard work brings a better life
• 72% are satisfied with their financial position
Can't see much ground for fascism to take hold there. Can't see much hope for Pauline Hanson to expand much beyond being a fly on the arse of the political system.
Can't argue with that FR76