Surf culture and Indonesia

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blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 2 Jan 2016 at 11:22am
Blowin's picture
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Blowin Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 2:07pm

You'll have to explain how my turning up with a surfboard and a tent at a remote beach to get pitted makes me responsible for a high rise development that I wouldn't dream of staying in , at a beach I've never been to .

I think you're confusing an imagined "we" with the reality of myself.

How have I contributed directly ?

Specifically the yuppification of Byron Bay.

Have you not kept up to speed on the displacement of blue collar surfers in modest surf towns by the more affluent , McMansion building sea changer ?

99 percent of all incongruous development that I've personally seen has been driven by greed and money.

To claim surfers as responsible is spurious and misinformed.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 2:22pm

Surfers are people.

People develop areas.

Surfers are no worse, in fact they're a whole lot better, than most people at looking after a joint.

Surfers were responsible for the road into Ulu's and while I have used that road, I would have in no way encouraged its construction and I would have been actively opposed to the surf comp that instigated it.

Im against the development of spots and I'm a surfer and I'm not on my own in this regard, so how does this equate with surfers = ruination of the coast ?

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tonybarber Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 2:57pm

SheepD, Pure hyperbole, pure embellishment. However, amusing.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 3:03pm

Couldn't let this pass.

Zen - "Clown? I failed miserably at being a clown. Two semesters at clown college and they kicked me out- said I wasn't taking it seriously. They suggested I become a human cannonball as it would more suit a man of my calibre."

Fantastic.

Hang on a second, something smells funny...
Maybe it's a clown's fart?

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sypkan Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 3:04pm

haha what a hoo haa over nothing...well little

did you write that clown school stuff yourself zenman, fukn gold, looks like plagerism, but gold nonetheless

I think surfers are getting blamed because we often blaze the trails, most, that's most do very little in terms of development, we blaze the trails making it more accessible and hospitable for non surfers to hang in a beautiful spot. let's face it not many would carry food and water and travel on stinky 3rd world ferries and fishing boats to a destination to live in malaria ridden mosquitoe swamp to enjoy the view, unless you surf. however after the trail has been blazed and food and water is available it becomes attractive to the average joe. most surfers have the attitude of blowin above. unfortunately there's big money in surfing now so we do end with fucked developments like komune at keramas and various mentawai spots where this process is fast tracked but generally most surfers keep it pretty modest.

I always find it interesting that nias is used as an example of how not to do it. i think hundreds of surfers living in modest accommodation with limited power and water, little air con, no pools is about the most sustainable tourist model one could design. so are we talking avout the environment or aesthetics? compare that to some of the exclusive resorts with air con rooms, spas, plunge pools, horizon pool, bar pool, super thirsty speed boats and a plethora of other services, not to mention subservient local staff all catering for about ten guests. a huge embedded energy carbon footprint, huge per person carbon footprint, and ridiculous consumption of resources. a hundred people at nias enjoying a place versus 10 at latitude zero for the same amount of consumption? yeh nias hss some social problems from drink amd drugs etc. but at least the locals still have their dignity (debatable) and most importantly some autonomy.

the same goes for kuta and uluwatu those places serve thousands of people daily with fairly minimal consumption. just because our plastic in oz is buried out of sight out of mind doesn't make it any less an environmental scourge. geez the average oz family probably consumes and throws awayin one day/meal more plastic than the indo's use in a week.but our way looks clean, we're fucken kidding ourselves

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 4:50pm
Sheepdog wrote:

Gday, Indo.... Unlike our resident racist, and a couple of clowns, at least you've got a grip on the thread... It's more than a "Indo" issue.... But you're intelligent enough to get that....
Have you ever taken a drive up the east coast of Australia, Indo? Say Sydney to Cooktown?..... Where the decent surf stops, due to the Barrier reef, it's like 2 different worlds..... South of the barrier reef is wall to wall crass development... Concentrated... Super concentrated around quality surf breaks.. Noosa, Coolum, Maroochy/kawana/Caloundra... The whole gold coast.... Tweed - Byron - Yamba etc etc etc etc.... All the way to Sydney.... I can't comment on south of Sydney coz I havent spent much time there... But I'd assume Kiama batemans bay Merimbula has changed incredibly.....
But now drive north of Fraser Is.... Different world.... yeah some spots like Cairns/ port douglas/ Whtisundays are developed, due to the fishing/sailing fraternity, but thousands of Km's of coastline pretty well the same as it has been for ages...... And it has one of the worlds wonders at it's doorstep..... But lets picture Cardwell with a smoking hot Left reef.... Etty Bay innisfail with a Dbah like wedge.... Those endless right points from yorkeys knob to port douglas looking like Bali in the mirror....
So anyone who thinks surfing and surf exploration doesn't bring in fast tracked development is an idiot.... Whether that development is good/bad/indifferent is a totally separate issue..

Yes gone all the way to the far north on two six month camper van trips plus lived on the Goldie, Sunny Coast and Fraser island…True what you say but i don't know if its surfing related.

Two other things happen when you go further north of Noosa the landscape also becomes very dry and a little uninteresting/flatter from memory, the beaches also go from sand to basically mud or dirty sand where you have to often walk 500m out to get in waist deep water.

Its not until you get way north that things improve again with a more lush landscape and better beaches, but you also see more development and tourism even though its a bloody long way from anywhere, the halfway point for a trip from Melb to Cairns is Brisbane.

Not saying surfers aren't a factor in the problem but i think there is many more other more driving factors involved like all the places you have mentioned, like the Sunny Coast, Gold Coast, Byron bar Yamba are also within a few hours of a city.

I think this is an important factor as you get people with money in cites that then buy holliday houses for weekend getaways and often end retiring or moving to these places, I think day trippers from cites and weekend trippers are an important factor as they also fuel things like restaurants/cafes/arty shops etc that then add to the appeal for some people to these places and it becomes like a snow ball running down a hill, more business more employment, more people.

You might have a point though when i think of places like Rainbow bay, I've always though man that place has potential to be like another Byron bay, just in the surrounding beauty and the feel and layout of the place, i think if Double Island Point was way more consistent or it had more proper consistent waves i think it would be a different place, so maybe you have a point to a degree.

Same goes in Victoria for say Walkerville i look at that place and think man why hasn't it blown up, has all the factors that could make it another lorne kinda deal, waves are generally pretty average though..so maybe your onto something.

But then there are other little places that remain fairly sleepy hollows that are very scenic and have reasonable good waves and haven't blown up, i think due to being quite far from built up areas.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 4:43pm

Just got back from a surf check, didn't miss much.

Sypkan, no mate not mine. I'm not that original.

Indo, spot on mate. I agree with everything you said and that's what I was trying to convey to Sheepy in my original post once I had addressed the clown accusations.

I think on the most part surfers tread pretty lightly, we are not blameless by any means but to say we have come through and slashed and burned our way with rampant development is a pretty long bow to draw.

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Parkie Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 5:09pm

In regards to the north of Fraser Island comment..Yes things have changed,apart from the japs and joh developing yeppoon which isn't the case,but still generally sleepy compared to SE Qld..Have had the discussion many times wether it would be more populated with good surf..Ive always leaned on the " yes it would be" side of the fence..

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sypkan Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 5:41pm

I think surf clearly is a factor, without getting all hippy, even for non surfers, surf beaches have a certain 'energy' to them. the beaches of western victoria are incredibly special, yet they remain undeveloped. yes due to national parks, but also due to inhospitable climate. as someone said earlier, the climate north of Sydney to fraser is probably one of the nicest on the planet for year round comfort. not to mention the mountains, rivers, and trees.

and that's a big part of why SA is undeveloped, in summer it's fucken hot and riddled with flies, winter is freezing and often with howling onshore winds. parts of SA are as good as anywhere if you jag a good two weeks, but if you book your holidays months in advance it could be the most disappointing surf trip of your life.

I think you're a bit out with your assessment of pt. elliot Middleton sheepdog, compared to other parts of oz I think it's developed at a snails pace, probably because the surf is shit, but also the climate is shit, and the places you can live are quite unappealing aesthetically, Middleton/goolwa would have to be some of the ugliest beaches in oz. and yorkes A grade? nah b at best, c if you've just spent a month anywhere in indo. I think the surf reserve has had little effect, not least because its only a year old. you should reasses your move, you're sounding a little grumpy. you're gonna need a fourby, some shark odds cutters, and a lot of patience to get gold there, especially with el nino

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Jamyardy Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 5:50pm

Interesting discussion lads. How does somewhere like Bells fit into this equation ? Certainly discovered by surfers before Uluwatu, both impressive breaks with a cliff top overview, small towns 5 to 10 kms away and cities less than say 100km's away. A long history of surfing comps at both. Bells immediate environs were not capitalised on but Ulu's were. I know it was turned into a surfing reserve a few decades ago, I assume by surfers wanting to protect it as it is rather than exploit it ? Population growth in general will cause towns and cities to grow in general. Good wines probably increased margies population more so than good surf, surfers undoubtedly have a decent footprint in the area. As for the NSW south coast, I had noticed many of the little hamlets that have good waves amongst them have not changed a lot, the larger centres dotted along the coastline certainly have grown. I reckon the tropical locations such as indo, with the ideal trades and warm water and consistent swells in our winter are a natural draw card for surfers, whether there is development there or not, and your probably right that it was mostly surfers that developed the cream of the crop spots. If Byron were as consistent as Ulu's would that town have grown to be a lot different from a larger invasion of surfers ?

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Blowin Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:02pm

Byron is as consistent as Ulu's .

Probably more so as Ulu's can be shit for months.

But Byron was taken up by Surfers as opposed to rapacious developers unlike the north Goldy .

It's that hybrid ala Luke Egan that defines the contrast between the two. Most surfers appreciate a natural environment.

Hands up here those that would rather surf with trees on the headland or high rise .

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Jamyardy Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:05pm
Blowin wrote:

Byron is as consistent as Ulu's .

I'll take your word for it Blowin, only been up there a few times ... scored nothing.
Whereas every time I hit indo, I always get waves.

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fitzroy-21 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:16pm

I find it quite interesting that some here have very strong views and opinions on places and countries they have never visited or been to.

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zenagain Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:32pm

That's true Fitzy, I freely admit I have never been to Indo but would love to. So I can speak with very little authority on surfer driven development.

Most people I know that have been to Bali are not surfers though, that's a given.

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Blowin Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:41pm
Jamyardy wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Byron is as consistent as Ulu's .

I'll take your word for it Blowin, only been up there a few times ... scored nothing.
Whereas every time I hit indo, I always get waves.

When I say that Byron always has waves...I'm talking surf able dribble of the sort that those who go on a surf trip to Byron itself would still appreciate, whereas Ulu's can be onshore for weeks and still surf able , just not what you'd go there for.

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freeride76 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:04pm

whats interesting about Byron- and I speak as someone who lives just down the road and who spends a lot of time working in the joint- is not how much it's changed; but how little it's been developed, despite the popularity.
Go look at photos from 50-60-80 years ago, the buildings on the main street are still the same today. Timpos corner, Simmo's corner, the Northern, the Railway station, the old butter factory (refurbed): still there, still the same. It's still a country town with no traffic lights, McDonalds or high-rises. You surf Broken Head and you can't see a building, let alone a high rise. Compare that to the Goldy or even Tweed Coast and it's fucking nuts how Byron has been spared from the worst ravages of over-development. Especially considering the pressure of 2 million tourists a year.
Byron has been through several waves of expansion and the natural resource and mineral extraction industries of the town, particularly before the second jetty got demolished in the '54 cyclone had a much bigger footprint on the towns' environment than any kind of surfer led development.

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fitzroy-21 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:08pm

On the other hand though FR, when I last drove through Lennox a few years ago I freaked. I used to live on top of the BP servo on the corner of the coast road to Byron (when it was a dirt track, mid 80's). Admittedly, I hadn't been there since the early 90's but it was a pretty rude shock as I came over the hill from Boulders.

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sypkan Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:10pm

and that's a credit to the locals, and dare I say surfers, I went there last year, first time in 10 years. I heard much negativity about it before I went, and I'm a negative cunt by nature so expected to be outraged. it had changed little, was very pleasantly surprised. the place still has amazing charm, totally yuppified, but still charming. beautiful!!

the no McDonalds is a credit to the locals too, I remember the protests when I lived up there. just shows people can control a places destiny if they're active enough, and care enough, great work, most inspiring!!

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freeride76 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:12pm

yes Fitzy and there's tons more in the works, pretty much the whole of Ross Lane is being turned into a new town.
One thing though: the new sea changers can't surf anywhere near as good as the old shacks that were full of bong smoking dole bludging surfers.

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freeride76 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:15pm
sypkan wrote:

and that's a credit to the locals, and dare I say surfers, I went there last year, first time in 10 years. I heard much negativity about it before I went, and I'm a negative cunt by nature so expected to be outraged. it had changed little, was very pleasantly surprised. the place still has amazing charm, totally yuppified, but still charming. beautiful!!

the no McDonalds is a credit to the locals too, I remember the protests when I lived up there. just shows people can control a places destiny if they're active enough, and care enough, great work, most inspiring!!

One thing that is charming about it, especially compared to some fly blown SA surf spot, is the quantity and quality of insanely beautiful women. It's a magnet, as you would have noticed.

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fitzroy-21 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:17pm

Hahaha yeah, it was pretty "relaxed" back then. I just couldn't get over lego land. Better than highrise I guess.

It is happening everywhere, what gets me pissed though is people find their little piece of paradise, they like it cause it's nice and quiet and undeveloped so decide to make the big move, then they want to change it to what they tried to escape because they miss the luxuries they had.

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sypkan Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:31pm

One thing that is charming about it, especially compared to some fly blown SA surf spot, is the quantity and quality of insanely beautiful women. It's a magnet, as you would have noticed.

haha oh yeh, I noticed!

definitely a nagative for those fly blown shitholes

that's why those fly blown shitholes attract a certain odd kind of man, as these forums often reveal

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stunet Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 7:38pm

Blowin wrote:
Sheepdog wrote:

Well, no barberino.. it's not OUR fault... Never is OUR fault, aye... I mean, "we" travel to far flung corners of the globe in the self indulgent pursuit of a 20 second rush.. We photograph it, write about it, make surf movies about it to narcissistically get off on seeing the envy, "being the first"... Even had stock market listed companies go on "the search" back in the days when money was flowing.... But it's never our fault... When it's "save the dolphins" or "surfing for a cause", we're just one big happy family.... But when faced with the negatives surfing has created, we scatter like rats.... Nope, I got nothing to do with that horrid development going on over in Indo.... I had nothing to do with the destruction of the gold coast, the urban sprawl of the sunny coast, the yuppyization of Byron, the prefab delight of Victorias' surf coast, the ugliness of J bay, The millionaires delight of Maui, the wall to wall traffic of the North shore, the owning of islands in Fiji, the destruction of paradise in the Maldives etc etc etc .... None of this has anything to do with me, even though I bought the mags, I read the articles, I saw the movie.... I deny any part of it.... ;) And I'm sure it wont happen to the next "secret revealed".....

No, I didn't have anything to do with that. Unless I can also put my hand up for the invention of flight because I've been on a plane.

Ha ha ha...gave me a chuckle.

Congratulations on inventing the internet too.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 8:04pm

Thats the big difference between those places in Australia and places in Asia, although they both get developed in Australia we are generally a lot more smarter about preserving the natural beauty for example Noosa has the national park on the point, even the Goldie has small pockets of bush preserved like at Burleigh, or over at South Straddie or even at Greenmount, same deal at Byron with the Pass and Tallows and places like Broken head, Lennox, boulders etc same deal down at Angourie, yeah sure Surfers, Broad beach, Mermaid etc has houses all the way to the beach, but if it was to happen again it would more likely be a public preserved dune area.

But places in Asia like Bali, I'm sad to say but there is no limits there no area is off limits to development except maybe a temple, money there doesn't talk it shouts, look at Ullus or Bingin or Dreamland those places are getting screwed big time 50 years time it will be hard to see the cliffs through the concrete.

Even places like America have been screwed over more than here, lots of places in America its even hard to get public access to the beach.

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fitzroy-21 Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 8:06pm

Good point ID, we complain about all the red tape etc here, but it is probably the only thing that keeps everything in check.

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zenagain Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 8:24pm

Indo, you should see the total disregard for the coastline here in Japan. If it wasn't so effing tragic it would be laughable. It is a mess of epic proportions it's hard to believe Japan is the third richest country in the world. I remarked to my wife I bet the Emperor had never seen this area, I can't put it into words the ugliness, you really have to see it for yourself.

Not to mention the sea walls. The Tsunami was a god send to the construction companies. They are just closing off more and more beach and going higher and higher. They bulldoze what little forest is left to get their heavy equipment in, take months and months to build these walls, the coast erodes away and when they leave they do absolutely nothing to restore or rehabilitate the area they destroy. They just move on to the next section and repeat.

When my parents came here I took them for a drive and showed them first hand and the first words that came out of mums mouth was 'Oh my god, that's criminal' and that pretty much sums it up. The thing is the Japs are so used to it and are so brainwashed and resigned to the fact that nature is the enemy that nobody utters a word.

Just recently on a trip back home I visited some friends up at Coolum, my goodness the Sunny coast beaches are beautiful even with the development- parks, gardens, boardwalks, just stunning. The Japs could learn a lot from Australia in how to look after the coast. When it comes to the environment, the Japanese are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the face of the earth.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 9:31am

Sorry to hear that Zen that sucks.

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lom Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 9:35am

Can't have a conversation about surfing and coastal development without mentioning the Shell Harbour region- yes it has waves/ surfers and it isn't Indo, where as mentioned money speaks louder than any environmental morality, but the McMansions are spreading faster than a cane toad invasion. No doubt fuelled by the love of a coastal lifestyle and the property value/investments by the general population rather than surfers.How many committed surfers could afford the housing/marina/golf courses?

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blindboy Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 12:44pm

...but really not much to do with surfers, just population growth and gentrification. Whatever happened to Shhlarber?

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Sheepdog Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 3:06pm

Gday Lom.... It's one thing looking at development at say the goldy, or shellharbour , or byron.... And btw I agree with FR re Byron - of all the over developed shit holes on the east coast, byron has kept some of its charm thanks to the locals fighting tooth and nail... But it's another thing looking at development in virgin sparsely populated areas.... I mean how long has Byron been around... How long has Coolangatta been a town?..... Torquay? Ages...... Did they have a history before surfing? Didn't stop the bulldozers though.... Did development speed up alongside surfings growing popularity? Did those regions grow quicker than say Sarina or Cardwell? Did real estate prices also go up accordingly?

But what about places with no previous history, places that weren't even towns, where there's no one to fight or argue about the type of development...

http://www.macaronisresort.com/

What about this;

Has the maldives exploded re' development ever since the first boat tours? Of course it has....

Denial..

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Sheepdog Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 3:08pm

BB... What do you reckon the carbon footprint was to build these surf resorts?? Just stirrin', old chum :)

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freeride76 Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 3:37pm

You'll find similar or worse style development in Thailand and the Med ...where there is no surf.
Go take a look at Dubai if you want to see some real over-development.

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freeride76 Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 3:40pm

Don't get me wrong, surfing is a driver, but it's far from the only one or maybe even the main one.

I spent a couple years in Cairns in the early 70's. PLace was just a small town with a fishing industry.

Went back in the mid 90's and couldn't recognise the joint. International Airport, high rise hotels everywhere etc etc etc.....all built on Japanese tourism to the reef and Kuranda.
That all fell off a cliff when Japan went into recession but the development remained.
No surf involved unless you want to finger a few desperadoes surfing Ratshit bay in a cyclone.

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zenagain Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 4:34pm

http://www.tourism.gov.mv/downloads/Visitor_Survey2013.pdf

These are the latest figures I could find but still pretty relevent I'd imagine. Scroll down to page 12 to see how much surfing is a driver of development in the Maldives and while you're at it you can poke around inbound tourist demographics i.e. country of origin, length of stay, purpose of visit etc.

Anyway Sheepy, you may have missed my posts or chose not to address them but if it's the latter, you're not the worthy adversary I thought you were:)

And once again, no bad blood. All the best for 2016.

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Sheepdog Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 4:40pm

For sure FR.... Was in Cairns and saw it all... But it was an established town... And as far as the great barrier reef goes, Cairns is one of the best access ports. A lot closer to the reef.... 40 minute boat trip..... If this was a fishing/snorkling/boating thread, we'd talk about development of pristine areas in that category - bermuda,... We'd talk about how Port Douglas has sort of held on similar to byron, keeping some of its charm.... If it was the sex industry, we'd talk about development around Bankok, or Holland etc
But this is a surfing thread, looking at surfing destinations.... We can point at other "lifestyle development links", but it's really just steering away from the particular discussion of "development that follows surf discoveries"... and the bottomline is , when great waves are found, development follows... The only things that may stop/slow this development are political issues/war (african regions), or very strong community will ( eg Byron to an extent and regions of South Australia - eg yorkes surfing reserve etc)....
It's like a gold rush... Someone discovers a freakn awesome set up.... Like the gold rush days, the secret gets out..... Liquid gold.... The surfers are the miners..... The more that come, the business men (some of which are the surfers themselves) set up the saloon, the blacksmiths (lol), the general store... The women (bikini girls bahaha) come looking for husbands :p Of course accommodation is needed..... BOOM!!!
But those original miners are sick of panning with all these new blowins.... So they pack their pan and off they go, looking for the next big find....
I'm not saying development is bad, good or indifferent... It can be all 3.... For sure it has helped some, fucked others over, ruined places.... I'm just a realist and accept we contribute a great deal to developing virgin coasts and islands... Surfing isn't as "green" and innocent and detached as many believe.... Some of the development has been good.... Some of it has been criminal....

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freeride76 Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 5:27pm

yeah, thats fair enough.

Although, that "Noosa of the North": Port Douglas barely existed when I was in Cairns. What a haven for the well heeled white shoe brigade that turned out to be.

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chook Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 6:01pm

i blame surf films...painting the heroic, romantic myth of the surfer seeking out waves in far flung places.
whatever happened to localism? you have your break and that's it.

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zenagain Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 6:09pm

C'mon chook, part of the fun of surfing is surfing different waves, testing yourself, travelling, meeting new people. Tread lightly and conduct yourself well and localism shouldn't really enter into it.

Unfortunately it does from time to time but that comes with the territory I suppose.

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Sheepdog Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 6:29pm
zenagain wrote:

C'mon chook, part of the fun of surfing is surfing different waves, testing yourself, travelling, meeting new people. Tread lightly and conduct yourself well and localism shouldn't really enter into it.

Unfortunately it does from time to time but that comes with the territory I suppose.

No drama,zen.... Just not used to this "zen" that's all lol..... I like the old zen.... I know your opinion on Miss universe... But when you have the time, perhaps drop your opinion in that other thread re' what do you think of Israel poisoning crops so kids starve.... No one else has the balls to touch it.... Just mocking is the order of the day... Perhaps you do have the balls.. Perhaps not.. I'd like your opinion.... It'd be great to hear from someone who's been to the middle east and all....... lol

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wally Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 6:44pm

There are relatively small, coastal developments that are only about surfboard riding. But mostly, for the really highly developed coastal areas, it was not board riding that built them. It was that they were nice places to be with the water, and to swim at, and to engage with waves without boards, and to sit on the beach. Surfboard riding has been an addition. The Gold Coast would not be hugely different if surfboard riding had not occurred.
Surf board riding is a factor with Bali, but I reckon most people who visit Bali are not surfboard enthusiasts. Bali was being visited regularly by Western travellers as a desirable exotic shangri-la since the 1930s. With the ease of travel, I think Bali, as a popular beach destination, was always likely to happen. Board riding did kick that along a lot though.

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zenagain Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 7:23pm

No dramas from my end either Sheepy, I'm on holidays, the surf is flat, been an abysmal start to the snow season and I'm bored- bad combination.

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zenagain Monday, 4 Jan 2016 at 7:23pm

PS I forgot the other thread so let me know what it is and I'll copy and paste the above to keep this one on topic.

Edit: Done.