Forgotten Manly Legends

spencie's picture
spencie started the topic in Sunday, 6 Jul 2014 at 10:35am

When I read Blindboy's comments today re Baddy Treloar and Johnny Otton it brought back memories of the many great surfers from that era. I grew up surfing Manly in the 60s and early 70s and can remember great surfing by Glen Ritchie, Baddy, John Otton , Jack Knight , Warwick Smith and Ted Spencer, amongst many others. I moved up to Byron in the mid seventies and both John and Ted called in to catch up early in the piece. Then we lost touch and I heard all sorts of differing stories but the main theme is that they didn't surf any more. Same with Warwick Smith (who could have easily been Aussie champ if he wished). I saw him a few years back in a little unit at Nambucca and it was tragic.

Does anyone else remember the great surfing legacy that Manly Pacific created?

I know there were many great surfers from Narrabeen but Manly was well under the radar, same with the Queensland guys.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 28 Jul 2014 at 6:21am

Warwick Smith, alcohol, drugs ?

spencie's picture
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spencie commented Monday, 28 Jul 2014 at 7:56am

Yes; one of those two mentioned. The scourge of the sixties in Manly and a few other spots. Caused havoc amongst some very talented surfers and led along a one-way path.

easterly

Fishlegs's picture
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Fishlegs commented Friday, 16 Jan 2015 at 10:42pm

Think Bobby Evans. The myth goes, his drink was spiked at the Steyne Hotel while he was DJ'ing. That was before I knew he was the pioneer that chased the waves at the Bower and beyond. He drew respect from all the elders that new his history. To see Bobby walking the beach ,at the time (circa 1970), to me meant he was having a good day.

It's Ok, Wave will come...........

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 16 Jan 2015 at 10:53pm

Robbie Holt?

Laurie McGinness

mehollywood's picture
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mehollywood commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 2:44am

Peter Frazier . Unknown ripper. A big inspiration to many of us younger guys. Watched him out at North Steyne lefts taking off behind the orange bouys. Really big .Queesie bombora breaking almost all the way through. Just south of the club house Simon Anderson ,Mark Warren surfing the rights. He smoked em .
Michael McCormack another local inspiration ,easily the best tube rider I had seen at that time .

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spencie commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 11:00am

Ah Peter Frazier. A young man who danced to the beat of his own drum. An old mate of mine and became a very good surfer along the way. What happened to him? Does anyone know? He was fearless in big waves.

None of us Queenscliffe/North Steyne guys wanted to acknowledge Robbie Holt as being a good surfer because he had a "pretty boy" style. He seemed to do well in comps though. Macca was a good surfer too. Not sure if he is still around. And Goody as well. Would be interesting to see what has become of all of the old crew.

easterly

sideslipper's picture
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sideslipper commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 11:04am

Legs...Bobby Mills..RIP,Robbie Holt...RIP,Peter Frazer..RIP, John Otten...not good, Macca up the coast,Jack & Gordon too, Goody as well, Baddy at his beloved Anga.A few of the generation before still around Manly but of THAT crew,virtually all gone (one way or another) Hollywood - are you NF?

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spencie commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 11:39am

Is NF mean Nicky Frazer? If so, don't know what happened to him. Funny guy though. Good for a laugh.

easterly

sideslipper's picture
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sideslipper commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 12:39pm

He's living further up the northern beaches......a v gd surfer who liked 7'6 Otto's when everyone else rode 6'8s...smooth in every sense

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mehollywood commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 3:34pm

No not Nicky Frazer , I lived next door to Jack and Gordo.
I remember John Spence of course who I think is spencie ?
There were many older guys that we all looked up to . Porky Peters ripped .when we first moved up to North Steyne we had nick names for the guys who we didn't know . John Otten was Mr Casual. Jack was Mr Angry !

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spencie commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 4:01pm

Yeah; that's me. Paul Peters ripped. Jack and Gordo have been up at the Gold Coast for many years. I haven't been back to Manly in well over 20 years. In Tassie now. Waiting on a Hobart point swell today. Should be good tomorrow. Can't get the surfing bug out of the system. There is an old Manly surfer here (Bryan Hughes) who was a very good surfer in the 60s. He was in the first Bells contest. Can't surf any more due to injuries but rides a SUP and I think still makes them at Bicheno. He is putting together a history of the early surfboard manufacturing days around Brookvale. Has a wealth of information about the earlier history of surfing, but most younger guys don't appear to be that interested. He is trying to track down old surfers from the earlier days (50s onwards). Good to see that some of the old crew are still alive and hopefully getting into the waves.

easterly

coopersshoot's picture
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coopersshoot commented Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 at 4:15pm

Sideslipper ,you got the names right ,Bobby Mills used to have a go at the bower ,saw John Otton catch some monsters also at the bower on the 74 swell ,a mate had some old super 8 footage of him ,Robbie Holt very good at winki on a blue paddle pop stick board , The list goes on ,lot of good surfers in the 60s 70s , Manly was a great place to grow up in those days but also a lot of sad endings for quite a few of the boys in the following years .

Piccadilly

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Darley Road commented Sunday, 8 Feb 2015 at 3:17pm

Recognise a few names...including one serial rapist noted as RIP. For the most part, good blokes around those days unless you thought the point at Nth Narra was a public surfing spot. Some pretty under- rated surfers like Jeff Holland/Fergus from Nth Steyne....I've seen him as a non competitor show up the best Nth. Steyne had out there competing once or twice. Almost all I knew well were RIP by '67 and drugs played a part in them all bar one.

Much as I feel for the blokes of the Bali 9 and their parents it's been part of a killer industry for decades and really started to hit Manly around '64. It's predator stuff and loosened up some of the girls at the Canopus Room. None of the 'head in the sand' predators care who dies...but we have no death penalty anymore . Others do...You take the risk with them and the AFP working together and it's a real outcome when you get nabbed.

I wonder what happened to Barrie Reedy and Peter Thomas...Peter Thomas the tough guy who drank at the Brighton..., Pommie Roy reputedly a golden gloves boxer ...Toni Balmer, Warren Mclintock's sister....trying to think of her name...began with a "G" but just eluding me right now.....Karlyn Berriman from up the Forest way...many others. 'Squeak' from the special spot group who went to Singleton...Remember his 61 green Falcon always seemed to be parked opposite Darley Road....?

Can you remember well Little Pattie and Roland Thunder/Storm down South Steyne dances. LOL!!...and those poor 'moon tanners' who braved the Corso and Sth. Steyne mockery , so obvious with their Duffle Bags. All the same, none of it as cruel as Facebook and Twitter are reputed to be....Cheers.

One of my favourite quiet guys was Neal Purchase.

Glen Ritchie...nice unassuming bloke and a few of them were in the Fire Brigade up near the man on the tyres. The chap who surfed the Bower when it was working "Bull"....Can anyone recall his last name? By the way if anyone knows the present whereabouts of Californian Chris Johnson /Fergusson who'd be about 65 now...Anybody reading might advise me. I heard Chris went to US again and joined the Air-force, went to Italy married an Italian Ballerina...He came from 529 South King Street Santa Anna California..still recall the address 50 years later LOL!!.Chris's Dewy Weber was stolen along with 8 other boards from Darley Road........or Dick Stuart who lived at Gladesville /Hunters Hill area, worked at Fire-Control as did Robbie Kerr (RIP at 21) and I think moved to Queensland. They just vanish....

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bondisteve commented Sunday, 8 Feb 2015 at 7:13pm

Had the pleasure of sharing big "Island" with Bobby Mills back in the mid "80's" and was impressed by his grace and recognition of one of Bluey Mayes's boys. Bobby I think was in the company of Scott Dillions' son.

bondisteve

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:44am

Bobby mills now theres a flashback...he lived in Torquay for awhile , great surfer...surfed in shorts here even in Winter...rember a really strong Offshore at Bells ....pre-legropes ( yeah I am that old!).....board got blown out to sea......he was on the beach looking for his bd......and when people told him....he just jumped back in the water...and swam a couple of miles and got it!!!

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shaun commented Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 6:23am

If you live to tell that story again in 10 years time Brutus, will he have swum all the way to King Island to retrieve it?:-))

I'm the scab you keep picking off and is there again the next day.

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brutus commented Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 12:50pm

he actually swum out until we couldn't see him.......bit like when ya lose ya bd at Sunset and have to swim out ......but yeah in 10 years he actually swam around Tassie....in 5 year K I....

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shaun commented Thursday, 12 Feb 2015 at 2:49pm

Well let's hope you live a another 20 and he can chase t down to Antarctica. :-))

I'm the scab you keep picking off and is there again the next day.

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Fishlegs commented Friday, 27 Mar 2015 at 10:07pm

Where did I get Evans from, when I meant to say Mill's, I suppose memories fade after time when they aren't being recycled. I might be having a brain fade again when I delve into the archives of my memory, and say. I remember playing the Pinnies at the milk bar owned by the Knight Bro's on the corner of Pine St and the Esplanade. The Knight's went north not long after that time.

Wind & Sea (later to become Wind & Sewerage) were the board-riders club of the time. The members of the club were those to be revered and respected. One fella that epitomized that to us Grom's was Big Jhono the Knee boarder, I witnessed my school mate paddling hard for what was the biggest wave I have seen us go for, and at the last moment when the gut's of it fell away, he pulled out. Johno paddled up to him with so much anger, grabbed him by the scruff, and ragged dolled him yelling if you ever waist a wave like that! you'll never surf this beach again! (were you the recipient BL). Classic! Lesson learned, RIP Twiz.

It's Ok, Wave will come...........

Ken MacDonald's picture
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Ken MacDonald commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 3:56pm

spencie wrote: When I read Blindboy's comments today re Baddy Treloar and Johnny Otton it brought back memories of the many great surfers from that era. I grew up surfing Manly in the 60s and early 70s and can remember great surfing by Glen Ritchie, Baddy, John Otton , Jack Knight , Warwick Smith and Ted Spencer, amongst many others. I moved up to Byron in the mid seventies and both John and Ted called in to catch up early in the piece. Then we lost touch and I heard all sorts of differing stories but the main theme is that they didn't surf any more. Same with Warwick Smith (who could have easily been Aussie champ if he wished). I saw him a few years back in a little unit at Nambucca and it was tragic.

Does anyone else remember the great surfing legacy that Manly Pacific created?

I know there were many great surfers from Narrabeen but Manly was well under the radar, same with the Queensland guys.

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Ken MacDonald commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 4:02pm

I remember Warwick...sad the hear. Over the years I have wondered about a Freshie bloke named Butch Robinson who was too radical back in those days. His eccentricities would probably be lauded these days. Any information on him??

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spencie commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 4:22pm

Hey Kenny! I had a heart attack six weeks ago and I've just started back surfing again. Good to see you're still alive and kicking. Are you still surfing? That was an interesting Manly crew that we hung out with. Lots of stories from that era. All the best.

easterly

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Ken MacDonald commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 9:46pm

Is that Butch??

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spencie commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 10:29pm

No

easterly

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Ken MacDonald commented Wednesday, 3 Jun 2015 at 10:33pm

Confusing.

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mehollywood commented Thursday, 4 Jun 2015 at 12:04am

Pretty sure Big John is dead. Came from Bondi I think . Used to confiscate money and smack from junkies as a living . A very scary guy who would just lose it at the drop of a hat .
Ken MacDonald , natural footer with a brother in the Finks ? Had to deliver a telegram to his house and his dobermans scared the shit out of me . Stood at the gate shitting myself hoping someone would come out .
The things we remember !

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spencie commented Thursday, 4 Jun 2015 at 8:28am

Hi Kenny. Sorry for my brief reply last night. I was in the middle of doing something else. It's
John Spence. I used to surf with you guys as well as Jack Knight, Macca, Goody, etc. etc. You were mates with Sallis, the Warnocks and Goanna I remember (unless there is another Ken MacDonald floating around). I left Manly for Broken Head in the seventies which was a breath of fresh air at that time. Good to see you guys are still going strong.

easterly

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spencie commented Thursday, 4 Jun 2015 at 8:31am

Hi Mehollywood. I think it was Robert Bradford who had a brother in the Finks. He took a fall for them on a murder rap and spent big time inside as a result. How's that for loyalty to your club.

easterly

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mehollywood commented Thursday, 4 Jun 2015 at 1:46pm

Yeah Spencie it was a long time ago and I was a bit younger than you guys . I remember faces but not alway the names.
The Finks used hang out at John Dunns bike shop on Condamine st . I used to go there and drool over the bikes but when those guys were there I went back to the beach.
I think if it was me I would have done a runner .

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Ken MacDonald commented Friday, 5 Jun 2015 at 12:01pm

spencie wrote: Hi Kenny. Sorry for my brief reply last night. I was in the middle of doing something else. It's
John Spence. I used to surf with you guys as well as Jack Knight, Macca, Goody, etc. etc. You were mates with Sallis, the Warnocks and Goanna I remember (unless there is another Ken MacDonald floating around). I left Manly for Broken Head in the seventies which was a breath of fresh air at that time. Good to see you guys are still going strong.

Must have been another bloke. I had the nickname 'Cocka' until I moved to W.A.

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tonybarber commented Friday, 5 Jun 2015 at 4:11pm

Great stories here and I would say replicated at many spots around the country. Most of the blokes shared waves / stories during the 60s and 70s between the major spots. Just finished such a reconnect up the coast and yep, we thought - jeez this would make good reading or film. But is are the next generation interested ?

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blindboy commented Friday, 5 Jun 2015 at 7:46pm

No-one is interested in anything tony except that someone is clever enough to make it so.

Laurie McGinness

Blubber's picture
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Blubber commented Saturday, 25 Jul 2015 at 11:05pm

Here's one for your memories.

Nick Devery who was the boss of the Manly Pacific hotel sponsored Manly Pacific Surf Club and provided a room for our exclusive use. I remember Bobby Mills about to take a young girl there from the beach when her mother arrived. The only guy I have known to nail both mother and daughter in the same session. Of course, before the time we grew up and had wives and daughters of our own and before Millsy's drink was spiked at the "Here' disco in North Sydney. Rumour was by WS but just a rumour. Can't ever recall Millsy being any more than average in the water though.

Anyone remember Chris Doolis? Could have been as good as Baddy & JO and maybe even as good as Ted. The hammer got him on the Gold Coast. They had a memorial contest for him for a number of years but I guess as they aged they forgot about him. We started surfing together on the same day & I think about him occasionally.

Great times but so many casualties, so much wasted potential. There were at least a dozen guys who could have taken surfing to the next level but while we were getting stoned (& some going even further) the Nth Narra guys did what we could & should have done. Bummer for us but I hope most survived and went on to achieve fulfilment.

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spencie commented Sunday, 26 Jul 2015 at 8:17am

Hi Blubber

I remember Chris Doolis well. He had the nickname "Goanna" and I surfed with him regularly. Even got some old Super 8 film of him at McMasters Beach and Manly. He rode a shorter board which was quite radical for the times. Nice guy and fun to be around but there was a darker side which obviously manifested at a later stage. Shame.

easterly

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Nuts commented Monday, 2 Nov 2015 at 11:39am

I met Chris Doolis when I was living and surfing on the Gold Coast with a North Steyne crew in 1969. The little guy of ethnic parents who became the Goanna was absolutely fearless in those days - on the land, at night and in the water. He rode a yellow BSA motorcycle and gave local Gold Coast constabulary severe headaches. Not to mention families with good looking daughters. When Chris moved to North Steyne in the early 1970s his surfing really took off but like so many of that era he found the good times could quickly became the dark times. Chris went to good time heaven decades ago along with many great mates. Their spirit lives forever.

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rowland commented Sunday, 3 Jan 2016 at 6:56pm

I met Chris in 1969 when i joined Manly Pacific Surf Club in Surfers. Phil neuendorf was the president and the club was a mixture of Surfers and Main Beach boys mainly. A strong competitive club which held its own against Wind n Sea the other local Surfers club. Chris was a powerful surfer and a nice guy. The club split into Main Beach Boardriders and Manly Pacific around 1970. Peabrain became president of Manly Pacific. Competing with chris you needed to be on top of your game
Rowland

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larry cambray commented Wednesday, 10 Feb 2016 at 4:13pm

hi rowland trying to remember you i was one of the original members of the surfers paradise manlypacific which was started up by miachel macca mccormack myself and a few others in 196? we used to have our club meetings in my old mans niteclub called the"grotto" just one street down from cavillav we used to all hang up the surf end of cavill av on a strip of grass next to the hamburger kiosk and create a bit of havoc between surfs just as a good gromett does some of the guys names were gary stevens butch noble roy smith gordon price davey jones david franks and a few of the nancarrow boys from main beach i also knew chris doolis quiet well as well as a few of the manly boys steve warnock rod ball (whatever happened to him) we had a great rivalry with windandsea at the time as they were the supposed gun club and rightly so as they had some great surfers andy mckinnon micky stafford the neilson bros just to name a few i remember phil neuuendorfs name but cant put a face to it to many mushys in byron in the seventies do you remember mexican micks at byron well thets where i ended up yep they were the good old days

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Luke.Frazer commented Tuesday, 24 May 2016 at 9:32pm

Hi I'm Peter Frazer son Luke Frazer can anybody tell me some awesome stories about my dad I have been searching for years to find anything about him and his surfing and what he was like when he was my age I have a lot of his surfing trophies which I treasure and I know that he was 3x Australian champ please please share your knowledge with me he would absolutely dig it also like him I dance to my own beat as well hahahaha

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sideslipper commented Wednesday, 25 May 2016 at 12:08pm

G/day Luke...I was friendly with Dad but not one of his crew. He was certainly one of the standouts when some of Australia's best ( Baddy, Goody,Spargo,Otto,the Knights ,Holt,etc,etc )called Manly home. I remember he came 1st in the Newcastle Mattara jnrs (beat Mark Warren) in 1969 & came 3rd in the Aussie titles at Bells( Jnr)in 1971. He charged big waves & I'll always remember him at 10-12' Bower,in a cyclone swell in '74. pre legropes !! He also perfected a technique for paddling off the beach when Nth Steyne was big( a lot more frequent then) and you have to remember - no legropes & you couldn't duck dive those boards .....He would time his paddle so that just before the (big) wave broke,he would swing around with his back to the wave & sit right on the back of the board & as the whitewater exploded it would launch him above the wave,still hugging his board & then just paddle out....you needed balls & perfect timing ! One day I asked him what was his secret in Big waves & he said as soon as he got out he would pick off the biggest,ugliest,scariest wave & go for it ! And if he got smashed....well,that's the worst that could happen !! He was bold & brave & I admired him ! He certainly walked to a different drum - but it wasn't that different for back then. Wish you well Luke......thanks for stirring the memories.

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Lou_indigoblue commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 8:10pm

Any further info on Big John the Kneeboarder from Manly? He's my father and I've never met him. I'm trying to track him down, any help would be so appreciated. His crazy temper is one of the reasons my Mum left with me, after I was born.
I have a photo of him from the late 70's, would love to know if it's the "Big John" you are talking about Fishlegs.

Facebook: Looking for John

https://www.facebook.com/pleasefindmyfather/?ref=py_c

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Lou_indigoblue commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 9:27pm

mehollywood: Do you know any more info (or anyone else who would have more info) on Big John the Kneeboarder??

https://www.facebook.com/pleasefindmyfather/?ref=py_c

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mehollywood commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 11:07pm

Yeah Lou,
really looks like John.
I will message you a bloke on facebook that probably knows what has happened. I heard what had happened but do not know for sure . I hope it brings some closure for you . As harsh as it is to hear your mother did the right thing imo .

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One Fin commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 11:12pm

G/day Lou...the photo is definitely Big John, the knee boarder & your information is pretty spot on. He left Manly in the late 70's & I can't help you after that......maybe others can. All the best

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mehollywood commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 11:22pm

Hey Luke ,
your dad was so good . I remember a really big day when Simon Anderson , Mark Warren and Geoff McCoy were surfing the rights .Around 6 ft with a few bigger sets and Fraze paddles out to the coke bank . Its breaking in line with the shark nets which were so far out . The Queensie bommie was maxing out and he was taking off next to the shark net buoy and just ripping the bag out of it .Was the star of that session for sure . It was on his big red rail and bottom Nipper Williams he got after coming 3rd in the Australian Juniors against Mark Warren and the other stars of the day .If he had had that board at Bells it would have been pretty hard to beat him.

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Lou_indigoblue commented Wednesday, 5 Oct 2016 at 11:52pm

Thank you mehollywood and One Fin, I really appreciate your responses. If anyone else knows anything further it'd be great to know, even if he went by any further/other names.

I know my mum did the right thing, he wasn't a safe person to be around from what I've been told.
Thanks again.

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zelky commented Friday, 23 Dec 2016 at 7:50pm

I grew up at North Steyne and was a member of Wind and Sewerage Boardriders. I lived at 120 Pittwater Road from the age of 1 till 46. Some of you may remember (some not fondly) my cousin "Nails".

My closest mates were the boys from the block between Carlton and Pine Street (I'll forget some please forgive me); Scott Bell, Paul and Darren Charlseworth, Max Menna, Justin Cook and his brothers Nathan and Christian, Andrew and Brett Gibson, Luke and Jake Rowe, Quenten and Nick Smith, Robert Gallacher and Rob Walton who both ended up playing Rugby. As we got a bit older crews from the different parts of the beach consolidated as friends. We had a huge crew...too many to name.

Bobby Mills was a legend to us as kids. He was obviously off tap, but we had older surfers explain to us why he ended up the way he did. And that scared the shit out of me as a kid.

The best surfer during my time (I was done by the time I was about 19-20) was Steve Garrett. Even Barton Lynch said Steve was the best surfer at North Steyne. I remember the first time I paddled out North Steyne and Steve was tearing it apart really aggressively...I'd never seen anyone surf so well up close. So aggressively, yet so smooth at the same time. And when he'd finish one wave he'd just pull off and start furiously paddling back out straight to the inside...rinse repeat. I remember thinking..."if you want to be accepted here kid...you need to do shit his way. Hard, fast and don't smile for anyone."

There was a shitload of above average standard surfers at Manly in those days. Between three clubs WNS, QBC and MSB there was hundreds. Paul Burnett was another huge standout.

In regards to Big John. He let me off the hook big time when I was a kid. I was paddling for a wave and was about to stand up when he started paddling next to me. I pulled back and shouted out "fucken cripple!!!".

Next thing I knew he was paddling straight towards me with a look of rage, repeating under his breath..."What did you call me? What did you call me?"

Being pretty brave for my age, and thinking the best thing to do would be to tell the truth I told him, with his face near mine "fucken cripple" in a meek little voice. He blew his fucken top, but turned and paddled away.

So Lou your old man might have been a bit of monster, but he did this little fuckwit a favour all those years ago and didn't give him the slap/beating he deserved. So to me there must have been some good in 'Big John'.

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Peter thomas son commented Monday, 4 Dec 2017 at 4:54am

Peter thomas passed away on Thursday and his good mate roy will be attending his funeral on Wednesday the 6th of December.
If you no my dad or surfed a wave with him please call 0415674010 as i would love to see you on this day.

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Peter thomas son commented Monday, 4 Dec 2017 at 5:01am

Please call me on 0415674010.
Did you no peter thomas and pommie roy.

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blutek commented Tuesday, 9 Jan 2018 at 3:38pm

Was that Peter Thomas, ex Balgowlah BHS.

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Oigleman commented Thursday, 6 Sep 2018 at 1:22pm

I believe Peter went to Balgowlah BHS.....
Interesting to read some of the above......many of us are still about...like Bryan Hughes is living down in Bicheno Tas. Niel Purchase, Bob McNeal, Harry Jolly and Hugh Pierpoint were on the Goldie last time I heard. Ted Spencer is said to be in Hawaii, Treloar still at Angourie.....if you have time it is worth looking at he photo of us all sitting on the wall that Bryan Hughes put up on another site some time ago..(It's on the Sudney Living Museum / surfcity website)...I am also aware of the passing of Gary Bathgate, and a few others...but as someone said, many have simply disappeared........I also recall the passing of Robbie Barnes, who hung with Warrick Smith, and also John Otten's elder brother.......others may know or recall more as a result of reading this and other comments.....Anyone heard of Squeak (Chris Peel) or Bob Munro for example......see photo http://blogs.sydneylivingmuseums.com.au/surfcity/?p=2198......