Take the plunge

Ash's picture
Ash started the topic in Thursday, 15 Sep 2022 at 1:19pm

Bear with me for a sec. I have a conflicted interest in the WSL, a lot with location. I hate them trying to push into new waves, e.g., Kalbarri and further expanding exposure to the masses. Most sports are played in man-made arenas, stadiums and so on, because it's a controlled environment allowing the activity to be played with little weather disruptions, good lighting, seating blah, blah, blah.
Wavepools are in my mind the surfing sport's answer and not necessarily for the rest of us. They tend to be mind numbingly boring for contests, but perfect for endless practice of maneuvers.
So, Slater's pool has the power all the way down the line, the shape, sections and length but no mother of a split peak for that Pipe takeoff and only one wave per train pass. Yeppoon's plunger has multiple waves off every plunge and decent varied peaks but lacks in size and dissipates quickly.
I haven't read much before writing this so I'm lazy, but I'm thinking the plunger dissipates the water by dropping down, moving the water from the surface and not so much from underneath, Slaters blade pushes the water from top to bottom all at once creating a stronger pulse all the way to the end section with more size, the power being a bit more like a ground swell. So, if I'm correct in my assumption of the Yeppoon model, wouldn't the plunger be better off pushing up from underneath to displace water from bottom to top, for a much stronger pulse similar to an ocean ground swell and resulting in heaving peaks that will run longer and stronger.
Being wrong is one of my forte's and this is probably old ground already well hashed over but maybe someone can enlighten me further on the subject.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Sunday, 18 Sep 2022 at 12:43pm

Bump

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Thursday, 22 Sep 2022 at 1:45am

Ash ...we're all new to current Wave Pool designs.
WA has a long proud history of pioneering a world of Artificial Wave firsts.
So many that tbb is happy to share WA Weird Waves if you care to research them.
Again! It's not unusual that few WA surfers or Pool Lovers know of half of them.
Same can be said of most Oz states...Udo will vouch for that, as he likely knows of more again!

1982 WA Kahuna Falls - Beach & Lagoon ( Biggest in it's day & as Large as a Wavepool )
Meaning WA were early leaders along with Qld Marine Parks in Lagoon Sized Tech!
Also shows that Oz states can & have proven to supply quality water for 40 years in same lagoons
The Lagoon size was never an issue that held back Wave Pool Tech. (That's surprising to know!)
https://www.adventureworld.net.au/park-info/rides-and-attractions/rides/...

1983 Winged Keel was most iconic Wave Craft Tech was tested at 1/3 scale size in Water Tanks!
tbb is demonstrating that WA had hidden natural skill equal to Wave Pool Tech if so desired!

WA Artificial Surf Reefs
1999 Cables ( Again we see WA leading by taking on open sea inshore wave sculpting )
Easy to see WA has expertise in pioneering Water / Ocean dynamics! Well...in retrospect it shows!
https://raisedwaterresearch.com/spot/artificial-reef/australia/western-a...
Proposals at Scarborough > Geraldton > Albany

Crew salutes Ash for your Bunbury (Airwave) Forum...( Again totally unique Wave design to WA )
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/surfing-reef-designs/472884

WA Wave Pools + Flow Waves
1999 Bayswater Waves ( Very classy ~ Early Pneumatic Wave Pool ) + Canoe training Pool!
This Wave Pool gig was outta the Future in opulent design...
https://atconsulting.com.au/project/bayswater-waves-aquatic-centre/

&t=30s

2008 Kalgoorlie (Flow Rider) FIFO surfies (Again a new Market to keep workers happy!)
2013 Port Headland (Latitube) FIFO surfies ( 1st gig for an East Coast Prototype )

2015 Subiaco (Wave Garden - Blade) Stadium Conversion Proposal was first of it's kind!
https://www.facebook.com/9NewsPerth/videos/subi-surfsubiaco-oval-could-b...
2016 Melville Wave Garden (Cove) Proposal! Was also new to Oz at the time.

2018 Joondalup (Hybrid Flow Barrel was also a prototype surfed by Taj!)

2018 Mandurah (Surf Lakes Plunger) proposal was to be another first Commercial model.
Note this was before Qld Surf Lakes opened!
https://www.perthnow.com.au/community-news/mandurah-coastal-times/exclus...
2021 Stirling (Wave Garden Cove)
https://www.perthnow.com.au/community-news/stirling-times/stirling-counc...
2022 Cockburn ( XL Endless Surf Pneumatic) vs ( XL Wave Garden Cove)
This was also an early push by Endless Surf into Oz.

WA pioneers the most novel Wave Concepts
Victoria operates the most & expensive wave pool.
Qld has the longest running Wave Pools
NSW runs high quality good sized modern Family Wave Pools.
Darwin runs the most popular standalone Wave Pool.

Oz has a well established popular fun loving Wave Pool history.
It's only natural to expect Aussie Surfers would equally slot into Wave Pools.

However! Aussies will fiercely defend their NP / Coastline / neighbourhood from the Wave Pool Bug.

Unless Surfers can revert back to unleashed acrobatics then there is no future as an Arena Sport.
Seated / Tethered Athletes dead from the waist down are the cheapest tickets in the Olympics.
Be thankful that 30 mins of sleep is hidden out at sea & not laughed outta the Stadium.

Surf Industry & Wave Pool Developers keep insisting that Qld is Hosting Olympic Surfing?
Goldie hodad tbb would love to know where they read this...coz Qld Govt have all but banned it!

Here's some points of interest that we are all still learning by the minute!
Kelly's Wave Ranch is the longest Wave on the tour & wears out the Pro's Legs.
Latest Endless Surf Pools are reducing Wave Train Set time to allow natural Wave recovery time!
This proves that wave pools have already delivered too much Wave Power for Pros & Surfers to handle!

Pause!

That sounds weird & tbb never gave thought to ever saying that, nor will the crew read it elsewhere!
Nevertheless it has now outed itself as a fact & well ahead of it's time...(Surfers can't handle more!)
Oddly backs up Wave Pool operators that prefer to deliver less, not more powerful waves!

Equally weird that Pool Waves have not been criticized by Surfers that can't compete with them!

Strap on a seachange slab to cop a mouthful at the outfall or a quick bash in the Ready Mix Revenge.
Both sound like some heavenly Huey Timeshare oasis when you've only surfed once in three years!

Ash's picture
Ash's picture
Ash Thursday, 22 Sep 2022 at 4:09pm

Cheers TBB, that reply is about as long and well researched as a Steve Shearer WSL article, impressive.
I really wanted the Bunburry air bag to be a goer but alas real world physics put an end to that so far. Wave pools aren't siren calling me to them, but I flashed on the idea of plunging upwards instead of downwards for a stronger pulse.
We're in Nambucca Heads caravan park at the moment in a campervan, trying to sit out the rain and my minds turning into jelly, it's been a long day. Can't wait till the 30 knot NE's swing to mild SW and the sun comes out and I can hit natures wave pool.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Tuesday, 27 Sep 2022 at 2:55pm

tbb don't think...he's knows yer onto to something Ash! Salute!

Ash : "So, if I'm correct in my assumption of the Yeppoon model, wouldn't the plunger be better off pushing from underneath to displace water from bottom to top, for a much stronger pulse similar to an ocean ground swell and resulting in heavier peaks that will run longer and stronger!"

No Ash! You are not wrong at all...in fact there seems to be a recent example of your theory.

Cons...
Endless Surf boast no moving underwater Parts saves on costly maintenance
Pros...
Up & Down recoil propulsion rewards twice the waves & power.

Universal giant rubberized zero maintenance Toilet Plunger would brew up a shit storm in brown town.

Surf Lakes Evolution...
The X Factor : 2x V points
https://www.theinertia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kick.jpg
Knuckle Head Phase : Long End 2 End with short sides.
https://d1ygx1o8x2bsbk.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SURFLAK...
Bridging Visa Phase : Cross the Moat to request a decent Vinyl slab from the Plastic Wave DJ.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/10/30/17/51CA6FBC00000578-633208...
Steam Era : Hot Press Laundry for yer wetties
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0XGyjDszWZyE53Sbc...
Darwinian Evolution : Steam Tower is gone but sheds an A Frame > 4 peaks cut down to 3 peaks?
https://wavepoolmag.com/live/wp-content/uploads/Surf-Lakes-Darwin.jpeg
https://www.pacificlongboarder.com/files/News/Darwin_wave_pool1.jpg

Back to the sea XL Phase : (See) Fully submersible fully immersible Knuckle Headed Plunger
https://wavepoolmag.com/peak-surf-park-in-tampa-shows-positive-survey-re...

There's more than meets the eye here & this devolution needs explanation.
It is a work in progress but tbb can explain half of this reverse osmosis.

Surf Lakes needs 4 main changes to become commercial.
1. Mad Max tweaks into Disney Spectacular
2. Economy of Scale + Preferred Business Partner + Corporate Compliance
3. Water needs to be immersible to gain status for Disney Hodad Resorts
4. More Waves

Image gives many clues on how to turn our Mothballed Yeppoon Mudslinger into a Fairy Princess.
Ash is onto it...Reversible Plunger combined with funnelling Side lines should stoke more XL end Slabs.
Energy saving could be as high as 75%.
This Possibly enables the XL 2,000 waves / hr
Waves would have extra 50% Power & with clever elongated pronounced bathymetry for Extra Height.

tbb did say clever...take a look at the overflow feed back pools > Each designed to ramp alt height.
Notice how each are fed with differing Water Forces (Take a closer look & now choose yer freak peak...)
L Flow ( Dual Flow rider creates intense rushing tide ~ Heavy)
R Slide ( Constant Water Slide feed of moderate Backwash ~ Pro )
R Lagoon ( Casual wash ~ Weekenderz )
L Beach ( No backwash ~ Learner Wave )

Notice this is a beach Club less so a resort.
Pool Sides are redesigned as Swim zones away from boardriders (re: Mixer Floats > Zones)
Solar Power [P] Bays will likely charge yer car with Wave Pool / Swim Entry Price! $60 US upwards!

Earlier January Darwin / Florida evolution article/s also shows 2 then 3 back wash fed line ups.
https://www.cltampa.com/arts/a-giant-outdoor-surf-park-is-looking-to-ope...
https://wavepoolmag.com/tampa-bay-florida-to-get-surf-lakes-wave-pool/

Also shows fireworks that seem more like the steam outlet within the centre console.
Meaning the submersible Plunger may have evolved from incorporating the Exhaust tower?
Either way it shows Surf Lakes are ever tweaking their line up design by adding extra water forces.

Just showing latest July Surf Lakes design again...surfers can see they're fine tuning all aspects.
https://www.businessobserverfl.com/article/new-surf-park-in-tampa-bay-ar...
Crew can see sophisticated design elements that stoke several graded line ups...it is very clever!
We also see a Compact Posh municipal Day Pass Wave Pool Venue.

In closing it does seem Ash is right about the Submersible Plunger...tbb can't see above surface action?
Meaning Wave Pool God Bob can now fully dunk himself on hot days!

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Tuesday, 27 Sep 2022 at 7:38pm

Energy saving could be as high as 75%.

Waves would have extra 50% Power
Nope on both Claims
What do you think PoPs ?

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Wednesday, 28 Sep 2022 at 1:22am

Fair Point Udo...
But there does seem to be similar % design effort directed toward compacting the wave power.
As your previous SPITS link exposed...that Surf Lakes aren't big on sharing Wave Dynamics.
Happy to be called out for ramping somethin' outta nothin'.

Here's why tbb thinks a submersible plunger is an unknown force to be reckoned with.

Simply by sticking to wot we know to be true in the kitchen...

Think of wot a humble potato masher can do to boiled spuds...Massive devastation!
Operates equally well under any density...however ya like!
Just a matter of adjusting perforated or gap spacing & gauge depth to optimize water density!

Also how easy a whisk can whip up waves of whatever ya dream up & robustly hurl it, as a bomb!
Simply dunking a teabag is still the bomb for infusion.

Neither have submersed moving parts...but each operate equally well above or below surface!

Just saying that we all know for sure that these tried powerful motions have stood the test of time.
Very few need to buy a new Masher or Toilet plunger over 20 years...
Both punch well above what any here expect & with best technique would ramp power again.
Most surprising is science is only now catching up to tweak them further...miles of design potential!

Simple robust utility designs that never fail to deliver with effortless immense "Manual"power!
Not even mentioning a need for power...if run on power, you'd be advised to stand well back & fast!
Any Wave Pool Designer headed down this path may well be rewarded with huge energy saving.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 28 Sep 2022 at 7:25am

I do know what you mean re submersible Plunger and its Power /Motion made
i use one to wash clothes with when away for few weeks Rubber Sink plunger in a 20 litre bucket of water ...Power full Handwash for min effort..

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Wednesday, 28 Sep 2022 at 1:06pm

Household hydraulics ...mother's little helper continued...

Dish washing by Hand (22L) vs Unit (old) 37L (eco) 11L = 50% inflow water Saving

Front Load Washing Machine uses 70% less water than Top Load.

Shower Nozzles 25L min (now) 5L min = 80% outflow saving
(Note) Pulsating Shower heads use no extra Water & direct water pressure where most needed.

All equally massive water / energy saving claims...guessing a wave pool would follow suit?

Here's 2 ways in which a Water Fed Plunger could save on power.
Wave Lagoon > Power Station > heated wastewater is fed to circulation pumps on yer wave train timer.
1. Central upward inflow jet feeds & fills Plunger up & gravity releases 'nozzle outflow' to pool base.
2. Downward inflow fills plunger, gravity releases nozzle outflow & rebounds empty float to the surface

Plunger size + weight / Jet (Air) Propulsion of Contoured Nozzles / Bathymetry
Contoured spray arms could swivel & release water jets to further economise the Plunger.
Only each power boost adds more underwater risk or maintenance.

Take a closer look at Central Circular Nozzle dynamics on Fire Hose Power or Rocket Booster Power
These central propelled units keep us folk well back once the switch is flicked.

Fire Hoses are still pound for pound the best way to whip up a line up...
https://blog.qrfs.com/98-spray-nozzles-how-they-work-and-how-to-choose-one/
Note many hoses are tested underwater for Valve leaks...not sure if they measure hydraulics?
Pretty sure one study alluded to +50% Pressure Dynamics as being a thorough test.
So we could look at 50% extra Force from a Hose Jet.

Now Consider ramming a fire hose up a kidz plunge action spinning top & drill a few holes in the base.
Printout & stick on yer XL Rocket nozzle overlay of yer fav' Reef break...
Launch pad countdown 54321...Kaboom!

Comes back to the fact that either Surf Lakes are promoting the Wave Pool without the Plunger?
https://spc-wp-bucket.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022...
Or they're hiding a submersible Plunger under clear water in the clear light of the day?
https://www.businessobserverfl.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_an...
Consider they also disguise Bob's Bong as a made in Chynna Trump Fireworks Spectacular.
https://wavepoolmag.com/live/wp-content/uploads/Surf-Lakes-Renderings-3r...
Really is anyone's guess on what the next Promo delivers?