Submitted by Pooley on Thu, 11/15/2018 - 09:40
Lots of talk about volume these days but wondering if someone could give me some advice around surfboard length.
If I've got a board with similar volumes and dims, but one is an inch shorter, will the shorter one be a bit more manoeuvrable but not paddle into waves as well? Is the longer one going to be better in bigger waves? I've got got a Monsta8 @ 6 1 (29.7lt) but feels a bit big, and thinking about either going the 6 0 x 28.2lt or staying with the 6 1 but dropping down to 28.6lt. I test rode the 6 0 but can't get my hands on a 6 1 at that literage.
I ain't no shaper, but isn't volume more relevant to where it's positioned along the board (rather than the total literage that'd replace the foam)?
Does 0.4L really make any noticeable difference?
I would think so Ben, particularly as the ability of the surfer goes up. All my boards from 6'0 to 6'8" are pretty much the same volume. Even before it could be easily measured I was keen on keeping it as close as possible from board to board. Pooley, try sending your preferred shaper a message about what you want. If they are too busy to answer or are unwilling to adjust their models ......... find another shaper!
Way too much focus on volume there. Sure, get a board that paddles well, but there are many other things that'll influence a board's performance before you notice 0.4L difference in volume.
Maybe Stu, but if you went like for like and just distributed the extra volume as a little extra thickness in proportion to the design, I reckon a lot of capable surfers would notice the difference.
Volume rises with board length if you’re trying to get into bigger waves. That’s the point of a bigger board.
BB, I reckon you'd be suprised just how marginal 0.4L spread over a 6'0" x 18' 3/4" board is.
Anyway, my point was not to confuse a guy who's already tripping up on minutiae.
There's a reason a lot of shapers don't write the volume on their sponsored surfers boards.
Yeh this is a bit of a rabbit hole I reckon Blowin, people say you need a"high volume" board for little waves but then, as you say, longer boards tend to have more volume also. Maybe Stu will put us right, until then, I'm sticking with keeping things relatively stable across the quiver!
Hey everyone, thanks for the help. I don't actually care about the about the 0.4lt difference between the 6 0 and the 6 1. I'm actually dropping around 1 to 1.5 lt from my original board because the current one has too much volume, but i'm just tossing up whether to go shorter or keep it the same length?
I always have a long think about width and bottom contours as much as volume and length when considering paddle power oh then there is rocker.........hang on Haha
Also a longer board of a similar volume will be leaner in the rails and across the whole board. Just the more spear shape of the thing makes it easier to paddle particularly if there is a bit of chop. Smaller, chunkier boards will feel every bump.
I base my hypothesis on Archimedes principle that the same weight (me) will displace the same volume so no need for more once you establish that base line. This ceases to hold in seriously big long period waves, but they don't happen too often around here and these days I sit and watch when they do.
I like the volume measurement it's a good addition to other measurements and most times with the addition of more volume a board of the same length will paddle better.
But I've also had boards with less volume that paddle better.
Some other factors:
-Plan shape (longer narrow boards can paddle better than short wide boards)
-Foam distribution (more foam under the chest the easier to paddle)
-Rocker (IMHO as long as the nose isn't digging in the flatter the rocker the better a board can paddle, while high rockered boards can be harder to paddle)
probably more factors
BTW. I had a weird thing happen or discovered in Indonesia.
We all know quads go faster than thrusters once up and ridding.
But i swear they can also catch waves better on a quad.
There is a wave i sometimes surf in Indonesia a real hollow slab type wave, on a thruster i sometimes have trouble making the take off and will get pitched 2 out of 3 attempts, but last two times I've had issues I've gone and swapped fins to a quad (same board)
And i then make 4 out of 5 take offs
@ bb "people say you need a"high volume" board for little waves but then, as you say, longer boards tend to have more volume also" I find that in little flat waves, having more volume (thickness and width) in the tail helps to compensate for the lack of energy in the wave. Once waves get bigger, or wave faces get steeper and inherently contain more potential energy, my tails get narrower and thinner (otherwise they tend to skip out), plus the overall aspect ratio of the board also increases.
@ indo Do quads on average have less toe-in than thrusters (i.e., less drag)? If so, that might possibly explain it. With exception to my gun (a NPS widowmaker), I only ride quads, love em.
Indo I find quads can get you in and moving across the face more quickly than thrusters. Not sure it is the toe in so much as the absence of the central tail fin letting you swing into trim just that touch faster.
Pooley just get a custom one and have them shave a bit off the thickness if you like the current size and plan shape you have. It will flex better and feel more lively that's all. You can add a carbon strip to the bottom if you want to stiffen it back up a bit. Thruster tail fins create more drag which is why they do nice smooth turns on an open face. Quads are faster as the water accelerates thru the close together fins and no drag at the tail tip. Double foiled quad rears are smoother in the turns like a thruster and flat inside faced rear quad fins with no foil are faster and more zappy in the turns. Your boards can all be the same volume but its obvious that its longer , pointy and thinner for solid or hollow days and short and tubby for small days. Boards with a flatter or 3 stage rocker (flat through the guts) paddle better especially with a pulled in tail.
indo what part of the takeoffs on the thruster did you come unstuck? was it in trying to get a bite into the face from the fins or getting in beneath the lip while paddling?
Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!
Is the speed factor attributed to quad fins possibly just the fact that the tail has to be so much wider to accomodate 4 fins rather than actually being from 4 fins, wider tails = more surface area = more speed. Is it it chicken or the egg ? Or is it just a conspiracy to sell more fins? Don't see many quad fins (or even fin systems) on the world tour (with the exception of some big wave events and tahiti ) if that counts for anything. The jury is out on that one
Lovin the discussion, awesome stuff. Current board feels awesome when surf is on - 5-6ft and punchy. But can feel like a pig when its any smaller. It could actually be the rocker on the monsta 8, and nothing to do with the volume or length. I must admit the one i test rode at 6 0 (and 1.5lt less) felt a bit more lively but pretty similar.
I also tested a Driver with similar dims @ 6 0 and it felt sweet, but the day was rubbish so keen to try it again when the surfs better....
I think getting in under the lip, as a thruster at this wave it doesn't matter how hard i paddle i often end up late resulting in free falling or getting pitched....but as a quad i do everything exactly the same and it seems too just give me that little extra edge to get in quicker.
Wasn't just one time either, had it happen a few times now at the same wave and every time I've just paddled to the boat shaped fins, paddled back and first wave i will get in earlier and then like i said there is a big noticeable difference in catching wave and making takeoffs.
My theory is maybe it's not just the board but its the fins that catch the momentum of the wave?
Nah you can ride the same board as a thruster or quad and it will go faster as a quad.
Further your fins are out towards the rail the faster they go.
But they just don't turn the same as a thruster, hard to explain but i think thrusters do better turns hence one reason why pros prefer them.
"My theory is maybe it's not just the board but its the fins that catch the momentum of the wave?"
If you're paddling into it at an angle then it's a possibibility.
So if I'm planning for a step up board I should look at roughly the same volume as my everyday board? I know the dimensions will be longer/narrower.
Longer for sure but similar width or wider (unless your currently riding a fish or something similar perhaps) and thicker ,imagine blowing up a version of the same board ,maybe narrowing the tail, streamline the shape but generally the bigger the board more of everything (length, width ,litres).
Depends on the starting point of what you are currently riding board wise and surf wise at the moment and then where you want to go with the "step up". Is it for the same spot on a big day? Points? or off to Jaws ?
I'm currently riding a Firewire Evo. 6'2 46 odd litres. I'm 46 and 102 ish kg. Its for the same or similar spots but over 5 ft when the Evo isn't really ideal. I'm not charging 8ft bombs, just want a board for when it's a bit bigger than my everyday board can handle.
Interesting discussion on quads. Always felt brick like to me, until I swapped out the large forward fins for two more smaller rear fins - now mine flies!
I do actually have this weird paddling style where my nose points out slightly to one side even though my body is pointing straight ahead, so most likely my board would be pointed a little on an angle even if I'm paddling straight into a wave.
Don't ask me why a bad habit i guess and even if i straighten things up, it feels so wrong i just can't do it, works for me though fine in most cases, maybe its a factor though.
So many confusing factors as to what makes a good board eh.
Blind boy saying his boards from 6’0 - 6’8 were all pretty much the same volume surprised me. Unless you’re taking off under the lip on a thinned out 6’8 blade in big waves I would of thought it would have quite a bit more volume than a 6’0
For what it’s worth I think I have one board in the quiver that has volume written on it. I’ve honestly never taken it into consideration when ordering a new board. But I know that as my boards get longer I want them getting thicker with more paddle power. I don’t want to be falling out of the lip in big waves.
Goofy, the 6'0 is a groveller. Lots of area, relatively thick rails for buoyancy across flat sections. As they get longer the nose and tail area decrease and the rails get thinner. The 6'8" certainly does not lack paddling power but, being an old bastard, I am usually surfing it around 6ft or a bit more. If you are surfing serious size with long period energy my approach would probably leave you undergunned.
That makes sense blind boy, I’ve just ordered myself a little 5’6 quad for summer. Thick and boxy with very little rocker. Wide tail.
I think Al Byrne used to recommend for multiple board quivers to keep the width and thickness the same and increase the length.
So you might have a 6'0, 6'3 and 6'6 all 18 3/4 2 3/8.
Not me though, my volumes, lengths, thicknesses and widths are all over the place in the boards I get.
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