Surfboard Translate

Blowin's picture
Blowin started the topic in Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 4:02pm

I've come to the grim realisation that I posses only that which could realistically be described as a tenuous grasp of even the basics of surfboard design.

Previously I've discounted this fact with the belief that I might not be able to describe my perfect board , but that I'd know it when I saw it.

Which makes finding the perfect board very hard indeed and as I am not in a position to get a custom board or the necessary follow up easily it's leading to some very unsuitable board selections.

I'm not even sure if I know what it is I need or want to be honest.

I'd like a board for 2 - 5 foot quality surf , mostly powerful but not always tubing and not always down the line....but often are. As you would expect from mostly Indo/ West Oz waves.

Early entry and stability are essential, plenty of drive a must but still manoeuvrable of course.

In terms of nose / tail rocker, plan shape and centre point location etc. how could I put this requirement into words ?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 4:06pm

Maybe more so than most I find my board choices to be very location specific which makes it harder ie a board that I love at break X , I can virtually not ride at spot Y.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ... commented Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 5:21pm

Well I'd be looking at what the other better surfers at spot x are riding and pick the one that does custom shapes.
He will most probably know the wave from experience or feedback and tell him exactly what you said in your post, try to meet him personally so he knows what you size weight and body shape is. Make it simple tell him what sort of waves you want to surf and what you want to do, then let HIM design the board.
Then after a few weeks of giving the board a go, if it isn't what wanted go back to him and tell him why you don't like the board and give him another crack at it. you'll probably get a good deal and might not cost that much more. :-)

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ... commented Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 5:28pm

Sorry miss read the spot x and y thing, but still just chat to a shaper that you like the look of his boards and give him as much info as you can and start the conversation. You'd be surprised, most of the smaller shapers that shape for the pro surfers are more interested in talking to drongos like us, cause if they can nail it for you your going to be coming back to them for years.

dilmah's picture
dilmah's picture
dilmah commented Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 7:13pm

Ill second that. Find a shaper you can talk to honestly. They also need to be happy to listen. It might take a board or two to sort out what you want vs your ability.

I agree with boards being wave specific, some places ill ride way more volume than other places. Some places ill ride a lot less length.

We all want the "perfect" board. Does it exist?

If its what you love, does it matter that you blow a few bucks on getting what you want/are happy with?

Why are you not in a position to get a custom?

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Saturday, 27 Aug 2016 at 7:24pm

Get a hypto crypto.
You can get second hand ones for like 800 clams on gumtree.

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 11:00am

How come you can't get a custom?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 11:03am

Never in the same place long enough or often enough.

Nowhere where there is any shapers of note anyway.

Except for Bali.

Any good shapers to recommend in Bali ?

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 11:27am

Jim Banks, Dylan Longbottom, Luke Studer,Dave Verral.
Luke Studer- custom order to pick up is 5 days

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 12:08pm

Can't you order in advance of somewhere you know you'll be?

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 12:09pm

You'renever in the one spot for a month? Jeez blowy you on the run??

Udo, 5 days.. That's super quick, are they good boards?

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 12:19pm

Great boards apparently
Mikala Jones team rider. 5 days supposed to be a surcharge for that service but not always.

wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443 commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 5:45pm

How about ya post up some stats, age, height weight etc and a rundown on boards you've had for those waves, what you liked, what you didn't... Give us, boards dimensions, volume, fin you used, and if possible, fin placements, cant and toe angles.

I'm going out on a limb, but, bet you'll find you've had the board, but the fin set up was wrong. Either fins you were using, or their placement, cant or toe in...

I'm a design kook, very amateur, but, what I've found is any "great" board I had (luckily I'd kept most of them) had almost identical fin placement - position, toe and in particular cant. All the good ones had the same cant angle. That knowledge took me on a path of discovery...

If the boards you've been getting paddle ok, get into the wave ok, and generally feel ok except missing that spark, twang, zip when up and riding it, I think you'll find it is in the fins. Fin type, position, placement, toe in, cant.

EDIT - Oh, yeah, check out that video I've posted below and listen to what's said from around the 28min 20sec mark. If ya haven't got it figured out soon, might be too fuckin' late?

Surfboard Design and Construction Kook. Evidence is here: www.ffwsurfboards.com.au
*FFW - Few Fun Waves ... that's what it's all about for me.

wingnut2443's picture
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wingnut2443 commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 5:38pm

"...You'd be surprised, most of the smaller shapers that shape for the pro surfers are more interested in talking to drongos like us ..."

Interesting aspect to that in this video, at around the 13min 50sec mark...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnOHnhaCxc

Gems throughout the discussion. Grab a beer and settle in.

I'm honestly surprised that it's only been viewed 12,300 times (a time of posting this, that was the viewer count)

Surfboard Design and Construction Kook. Evidence is here: www.ffwsurfboards.com.au
*FFW - Few Fun Waves ... that's what it's all about for me.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 6:52pm

Wingnut, here's an example.

I've got a DHD sweet spot 2.0 .

Love it out Nusa Dua, hate it out airport rights.

It just doesn't seem to provide any real drive down the line at airports, but at Nusa Dua no drama.

Drive off the bottom is my main complaint .

Using FCS P2 and FCS Fanning, results the same.

And I don't know why to describe the deficiencies to a shaper.

Is it too much tail rocker ?

I thought that greater rocker aided turning yet hindered down the line speed.

Yet a site I looked at described how a models greater tail rocker provided drive .

Huh ?

I don't know where to start.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 6:56pm

Udo ...went looking for his shop a few months back after visiting a couple of years ago and couldn't find it.

His website hasn't been updated since 2014 , I'll go for a run and see if I can find it.

I wasn't into any of his stock boards at the time and it turned me off, I'll go check it out and have a chat with him tomorrow if he's around.

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Sunday, 28 Aug 2016 at 7:16pm

Get some channels, blowin.

wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443 commented Monday, 29 Aug 2016 at 10:09am

Cool. OK, so couple of things:

1. More rocker = more drive. ONLY TO A CERTAIN POINT. It's the 'ole law of diminishing returns. Start with a flatter rocker, and add more, yes, will get more drive COMPARED TO the flatter rocker ya started with... but, keep going and get too much, and it needs a lot of wave shape, curve, to make it work. Enter the Banana type boards. Make sense?

2. Ah, different waves. Board goes different. I'll have to look at a DHS Sweet Spot 2.0 to confirm m y thoughts here, but, first gut reaction. Flatter wave with a bigger wave base and that board will lack drive off the bottom (due to not enough curve in the wave to engage the last third engine room of concaves, etc)... but, when it gets onto a wave with more curve, even if it is a smaller wave, but just more curve in the bottom third of the wave, then it comes off the bottom with ease, and hence feels like it has more drive.

So, couple of solutions:

1. Try different fins. Go for more upright fins. Like the K2.1 type, or the shapers Asher Pacey type AP02. Why? More upright fins will surprisingly give you a different feel off the bottom and will feel like it has more drive.

2. Move ya feet back a bit. On the fatter base waves, you'll need more pressure to engage the back end of the board. Trouble with this is it feels weird, and is hard to replicate. A lump of wax on the tail that you can move, and feel with ya foot can help. But, even a small movement back, will throw out ya whole feel and balance so the bottom turn into top turn combo will feel weird - timing off, etc.

3. Ride boards for the conditions. If it's a flatter base wave, ride a different board and save the sweetspot 2.0 for waves with more curve in the bottom third. It's a bit like comparing bells to kirra. Bells has that fat, less curve bottom third. Would you expect ya board to go equally as well at Bells and Kirra? Would you surf the same?

Remember, I'm a kook designer and total novice, so take all this with a grain of salt ;)

Surfboard Design and Construction Kook. Evidence is here: www.ffwsurfboards.com.au
*FFW - Few Fun Waves ... that's what it's all about for me.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Monday, 29 Aug 2016 at 9:03pm

Wingnut...you've slapped some much needed sense into me.

I rode that board with a new set of fins today and loved it.

I was pretty fucken sceptical to he honest when I held the new fins against the old fins prior to putting them in. The difference in size and rake was marginal at best.....but what a difference in performance.

Thanks for indulging me cobber, been experiencing a minor surfing existential crisis lately as my energies have been diverted by other things.

Willow995's picture
Willow995's picture
Willow995 commented Monday, 29 Aug 2016 at 9:38pm

Blowin i have the same board and i reckon the same problem at some waves in certain conditions. The local reef i surf can get fat depending on swell direction, size and tide and having ridden the Ss2 out there some days it flys some days i feel like i can't get any speed.

I have ridden another board of mind the Js Blakbox and it gets so much drive down the line on the same wave in pretty much all conditions. i do realise they are very different boards but still, i ride the BB a quad and Ss2 a thruster so i think next time ill swap the fins out and see the difference.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ... commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 4:27am

Send the boy a cheque for the amount of a slab.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 8:00am

People still send cheques?

wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443's picture
wingnut2443 commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 8:43am

Hahahaaa ... COOL!

So, what fins did ya try? What were the waves like?

Have you ever tried more "upright" fins like the K2.1 or AP02?

Oh, and another thing to add too ... drive in ya fins, doesn't come from the rake or the tip. It's the base of the fin. Rake and tip flex impacts 'how' the fin reacts in turns, and so more rake, means more longer drawn out turns (all things being equal like tail rocker, depth of concave, concave type). With more upright fins like the K2.1 / AP02, you sort of get the bet of both worlds - drive due to the slighter longer base in the fins and tighter turns (but you can still always draw out ya turns too).

Surfboard Design and Construction Kook. Evidence is here: www.ffwsurfboards.com.au
*FFW - Few Fun Waves ... that's what it's all about for me.

wingnut2443's picture
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wingnut2443 commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 8:42am

Oh, yeah, and as for a cheque ... Hahahaaa ... pay it forward I say!

Find a good cause and donate ;)

Maybe? ----> https://www.ruok.org.au/

PS: Cheques do exist. They're the retro cool tool of the fiscal warrior :)

Surfboard Design and Construction Kook. Evidence is here: www.ffwsurfboards.com.au
*FFW - Few Fun Waves ... that's what it's all about for me.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 8:44am

Try some C Drives if you want drive...fin base is around 22mm longer.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu's picture
Hako o hakonde ... commented Tuesday, 30 Aug 2016 at 3:28pm

Surprised hipsters haven't started paying by cheque.