Submitted by morg on Wed, 07/13/2016 - 23:33
Recently I watched a couple of guys riding modern twin fin boards. The boards were a Jim Banks Magic Carpet twin which Dave was riding really well in waves up to six foot or so, and a Gary MCNeil twinny that a guy was surfing in four foot waves. I grew up riding twin fins and used to really like four channel twin fins (eg Jet from Byron Bay, and John Stewart from Catherine Hill Bay). I'm not really a fan of the current old School twin fins or fish, however am wanting to try a more modern style one or a hybrid. I like swallow tails but don't want one with a flyers.
If you know of anyone who makes a good modern fish, or have some design ideas please let me know.
In the last line you said "good modern fish", so what were you chasing, classic twin or fish? There's a lot of guys releasing modern twins at the moment. Off the top of my head, Darren Handley, Lee Stacey, Gary McNeill, among the more well known, have modern twin models.
I was watching a guy surfing a modern MR twin fin swallowtail at Canggu on Monday. It was sooo painful to watch. The guy wasn't a bad surfer, the waves were around 4' and clean, but all I could think of was, if he was surfing any other board, would he be surfing better and drawing cleaner lines? It was all arms and legs flailing everywhere just to stay on the wave.
Are twin fins really that good, do you have to change your approach and style to ride them fluidly, or has the surfer got to be really good to ride them?
I'd say no, they're not that good. But last time I did that someone put up a video of Rasta surfing a twin which supposedly concluded that anyone can ride them with style.
So I'll just keep quiet...
I think Ryan Burch and Asher Pacey surf them amazingly well.
I'd watch them all day.
But in saying that I reckon they are limited to the types of waves they will perform on.
And those two guys could make any board look good, same as Ando with the hyptocripto
That's sort of what I'm getting at gf. An exceptionally good surfer can adjust the line and pressure put on the board to get the most out of it to ride it well. You just can't ride a twin in the same way you do a thruster IMO.
If the guy I was watching on Monday changed the way he surfed it, he would probably have made the surf more enjoyable ( for himself and also for me watching). Don't get me wrong, there were a couple of turns that looked OK, but 90% of the time it was just plain painful and ugly to watch.
I have to say I never liked the look of the MR twinnies. They always looked like they were a small wave board for a 7ft tall mutant. Off hand I can't think of anyone other than MR himself who looked comfortable on one but, having said that, I expect someone will post a link of their mate ripping on one.
Morg you should check out Bryan Bates surfboards in Byron industrial estate. Has an assortment of modern fish/twin set ups. I've been experimenting with a modern twinzer lately...thing goes soooo fast with way more drive and control than a normal twin. Highly recommend a visit!!
This is an interesting topic but for me in an off topic sort of way.
Regular readers will know what I think of the top 40 circus and one of the reasons I totally scoff at it is they all ride the same boards, surf each break the same and I get totally mind numb after 2 or 3 nano seconds.
Surfing IMO is so much more than surfing a modern thruster just like car racing is way more than F1.
So I have long held the view that the circus should reward riders on different boards .... something like e.g.
modern thruster 0 loading on each wave score;
single fin x 0.5 loading;
modern twin fin x 0.25 loading;
keel fish x 0.55 loading;
quad x 0.25 loading.
It would encourage the circus off thrusters and might encourage the likes of Rasta and others who could surf the wax off many in the circus (IMO) on these alternative boards to rejoin comps.
Again IMO I hate the way surfing is defined too much by the thrusters, it denies the heritage and diversity of this beautiful thing we all love.
I have many boards including a keel fish and love it in small waves .... always happy riding it.
Thanks for your comments and reminding me of the short comings of twinnies. Back in the day we all started using those tiny trailer fins on our twinnies to get a bit of drive and when when the thruster arrived we just moved on. For something a bit different to ride I'm after a modern hybrid style board with modern twin keel fins, rather than a fish. I've got a quad fish which is great. Different boards create different surfing and up the fun factor. I will suss out your suggestions.
I HAVE to say, well, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say (although I'd rather not say why I HAVE to at this stage) that the MR twinnies looked awesome in real waves of consequence. Plenty of witnesses there. Some who even groovily (not to be confused with grovelly) were allowed to say hi!
'but, having said that, I expect someone will post a link of their mate ripping on one.'
Isn't that illegal?
'Back in the day we all started using those tiny trailer fins on our twinnies to get a bit of drive'
Hmmm. Not exactly true, historically. Well history's a funny thing. Sometimes. There was this guy, a bit of a legend on his little twinnie. Drove it harder than most at Pipe too. And Windang. Big waves. Probably just lucky to surf rings around most. In real waves. No biggy?
Anyway, have to say, hi Pete, hi Mick!
Hi Pikachu actually 'Back in the day we all started using those tiny trailer fins on our twinnies' is true. Lots of guys in the Newcastle area were doing it. First guy I recall using one was Mort Britz and that was at least a year before the Thruster arrived. Simon Anderson changed the world of surfing, and I'm not trying to take anything away from him doing that. His legacy is massive.
Gidday morg, 'all', as it accurately can historically speaking, then becomes 'lots', then becomes 'some Newies'. And I know 'some Newies', and can see how 'some Newies' can become 'all', in 'Newie' land. Especially after the knights crumbled. And of course, the, err, Johnnsy saga.
Anyway, Batchelador didn't need the trainer fins to conquer PIpe, (unlike the Newies), to stand out, at heavy (big too), Pipe, on his twinnie. Neither did the other mentioned MR twinnie afficionado, in those waves of consequence way, way down south. Some newies were down there, not all of 'em though. And I find myself in the position of some others, as simply a man with no choice, where I have no choice but to ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say that some newies copped a hell of a floggin' down there, on their thrusters. Even Yazzie. And Homer. And even Peter. A hell of a floggin morg, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say. Not all the newies mind you, just some. And not exactly washed away, but a hell of a floggin', all the same.
It's good to see you're back you big raw boned dead liften squatten carcass
Yes I absolutely had to say that and yes I know it probably does offend the 7ft mutants out there, but hey that's the least of your problems .... and it has to be said that just 'cos Batchy could surf one ( never saw him on one myself at either Windag or Anga) does not mean that the majority of surfers riding them can execute a cutback with a radius less than 50m or get one to climb at an angle greater than 5 degrees from the horizontal except by executing some sort of ungainly pivot on the rail fin and thereby ending up stranded half way up the face. Their other deficiencies include encouraging leg deformities by increasing the Valgus angle so that the knees actually cross over beneath the centre of gravity necessitating a hugely accentuated spread of the arms to act as a counter balance. I suspect that many also end up with severe curvature of the brain leading to hallucinations and delusions of adequacy.....but the research on that has yet to be published so I will refrain from insinuating that this may be the source of your continuing mental instability and inability to construct logical sentences.
Now, this is more like it. Where's me beer, nuts?
'and it has to be said that just 'cos Batchy could surf one ( never saw him on one myself at either Windag or Anga)'
'( never saw him on one myself at either Windag or Anga)'
Luckily (well, its not actually luck), that doesn't mean much at all, and some, not to be confused with all, surfers, not to be confused with surfees, still have all, not to be confused with some, cells firing, and the Windang/Pipe/'Batchy'/twinnie occurrence sets history straight (as has happened many times before, strangely, but thankfully enough).
And there will be those that frantically google their little hearts out, to no avail, as they try to get in on the supposed 'history' of surfing 'twinnie' act. This is one of those, well, another one of those 'historical moments' that in reality is just pure bullshit. Think 'terra nullius'. Think 'no one home'. Think 'just some 'vermin to be exterminated'. Think advance Australia fair. A pack of lies. The 'founding'. Just pure bullshit. The 'history', the 'foundation'. Just a pile of bullshit.
See, 'Batchy'/twinnie, that's real. The MR twinnie afficionado, in those waves of consequence way, way down south, that's real. That's surfer history, not to be confused with surfee history. The twinnies worked better than most. All some could do, despite the thrusters, despite despising the twinnie, in the same waves, was meekly say 'hi', and hope for the best.
And, again, I find myself in the position of some others, as simply a man with no choice, where I have no choice but to ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say that some newies copped a hell of a floggin' down there, on their thrusters. Even Yazzie. And Homer. And even Peter. A hell of a floggin'.
Wave of consequence? South coast pipe as in blackrock or any of its other numerous names? Yeh right. Well if you were stupid enough to straighten out it might take the skin of your knuckles but beyond that nah, not even close. And have seen it, surfed it and been photographed and published about as big as it ever holds. So big boy, surfing it on a twinnie, no biggie. Could probably surf it on a friggin' coolite if it wasn't too windy.
And as for floggings on thrusters, I gave the place away before they even came along so it was all singles. Never copped anything worthy of remembering. Probably copped heavier thrashings at a dozen other south coast spots. Windang for one. Lived close by for a couple of years and surfed it whenever it happened. Never saw a twinnie out there when it was serious but Batchy had moved on by then.
Absolutely with you on advance Orstralia fair......but not completely sure how it relates to MR twinnies .
Hi Dick, Hi Jane keep reading fun to follow no doubt.
'Wave of consequence? South coast pipe as in blackrock or any of its other numerous names? Yeh right.'
Except, no, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say. Totally wrong. Confusion reigns supreme.
Confusion A: 'Batchy'/Pipe; Hawaii Pipe.
Confusion B: MR twinnie afficionado, in those waves of consequence way, way down south: Aussie pipe? Not even close. And agree re that wave.
'Absolutely with you on advance Orstralia fair......but not completely sure how it relates to MR twinnies.'
Its quite an in depth topic. Never underestimate the power of conditioning. It runs deep, that foundation, the source of 'advance Australia fair'. That is, a pile of absolute, pure bullshit. Superior, although, extremely inaccurate, biased, colonial bullshit.
Deep down, it makes it all ok. A few fibs never hurt anyone! Anything goes! Woodsy turns out to be Sweet! Its history! What's dave gonna do anyway! He don't call the shots! A few fibs shaped pauline's nation! Abs owns rabs. adolph didn't have to try too hard. Just tell a few fibs. Its history, the way of the wild west!
So, 'history' says twinnies are fucked in big barrels. Except the truth is that 'Batchy' on his twinnie, and the MR twinnie aficionado's performance in big, heavy barrels was better than most. Their performance on their twinnies stood out. Big deal. Just like terror nullius. Bullshit shapes one nation. What are they gonna do anyway. Just move on. Bullshit shapes surfing.
So you obviously ride a twinnie in large barrels ?
'So you obviously ride a twinnie in large barrels ?'
'Bullshit shapes surfing.'
You obviously did better than them. We both know the truth.
Bullshit shapes surfing? Some serious under statement there. This is the age of bullshit it shapes everything.
fong the word you were looking for was "apt".......and you are many years too late with the joke.
'Bullshit shapes surfing? Some serious under statement there. This is the age of bullshit it shapes everything.'
So, the truth is exposed. In serious waves of consequence, in big, thick, heaving barrels, the MR twinnie aficionado did better than most. Stood out. And despite offers of sponsorship from prominent board makers, in his prime, at his best, he chose the MR twinnie, to standout. To surf the way that he chose to. In waves that flogged plenty of so called 'legends'. In waves that plenty put on lists. In front of the blowins too. The way that is really legendary. Plenty of witnesses. That's real. Surfers truth. Despite surfee 'history'. And you can't google it.
Likewise, 'Batchy' on his 'twinnie' stood out, in big heavy barrels, at Pipe too, made everyone there take notice. Which they did. It became really legendary. Plenty of witnesses. That's real. Surfers truth. Despite surfee 'history'. And you can't google it.
So, thank goodness, I ABSOLUTELY HAVE to say, that, best to thank God, 'The Truth' always finds a way to shine though the fog, the squalor, the mire. The bullshit. The stench. The lip dropping. As some now say, smellnet. You can ban it, you can block it, you can lie, form clubs, gangs, packs, allegiances, employ ex cop private detectives, squeal and screech to the administrators, google your very little hearts out, meekly squeal and claim a 'hi', squwark 'please explain', to the cow's come home. The Truth will always shine through, just as it it always has done. Pristine, ageless, raw boned, unmarked, uninjured, good lookin' Truth.
'Hi nan and pa'
Gidday fong, hope you are having fun.
Hi Pete, hi Mick.
Hmmm, just for fun let's list the best surfers at Pipe over the decades and count how many rode twinnies. Well pokeboy, I can only count one. And in other waves of consequence hmmm, I'll be generous, a few. You see there's The Truth, as quoted by the likes of Trump and yourself, then there's the whole truth which is much more important. Just think of some poor kid, first time to the North Shore, taking your advice and paddling out at big Pipe on a twinnie. Is this going to end well? Can we be confident that young Lachlan will even survive? We know he will almost suffer serious psychological damage, maybe lapse into a permanent depression. So big fella get down off that high horse before it throws you on your over developed Gluteals.
Expected, but, totally illogical comment. Ludicrous. Again.
Firstly lets shine 'The Truth'. Despite all that your bias and so completely conditioned behavior might pray and beg for.
'In serious waves of consequence, in big, thick, heaving barrels, the MR twinnie aficionado did better than most. Stood out. And despite offers of sponsorship from prominent board makers, in his prime, at his best, he chose the MR twinnie, to standout. To surf the way that he chose to. In waves that flogged plenty of so called 'legends'. In waves that plenty put on lists. In front of the blowins too. The way that is really legendary. Plenty of witnesses. That's real. Surfers truth. Despite surfee 'history'. And you can't google it.
Likewise, 'Batchy' on his 'twinnie' stood out, in big heavy barrels, at Pipe too, made everyone there take notice. Which they did. It became really legendary. Plenty of witnesses. That's real. Surfers truth. Despite surfee 'history'. And you can't google it.'
Scream, squwark, cringe, screech, moan, complain, deny, email stupe, crack open another bintang, light another durrie, but, that's fact, pure and simple, simple but elegant, fact. That's not a for fun, imagined scenario, that actually happened, is real.
Now, lets examine this 'fun', imagined scenario, that your conditioning screams and longs for, unconsciously. Unconsciously demands, in order to justify the conditioned mind. In order to sleep at night, safe, smug and sound. In order to sleep by day, zombie like.
To try and paint a ridiculous, infantile picture that the 'poor kid' will be somehow be safe and more adept on a thruster at huge pipe, is putting it bluntly, idiotic at best. Ludicrous as the scenario is, in fact, he would have a much better chance of a 'well ending', on a three odd inch thick, MR twinnie, for some of the very reasons it was chosen by the legend in the waves mentioned. The area, flotation, stability, fin size, rail shape/length, swallow etc, all carefully chosen by the very experienced surfer, would be much better for the kid than the average opposite, off the rack potato chipped modern thruster.
Otherwise, board manufacturers would use that exact 'just for fun' scenario to prove the superiority of their designs. A geek would jump on a modern potato chip thruster and rip. At huge pipe too. Idiotic 'just for fun' scenario. Ludicrous thinking.
This is the same totally, magnificently conditioned 'thinking' (sic) that is unconsciously terrified of being killed by eating eggs, of hating and despising and cursing and avoiding eggs, whilst blindly barfing megatons of sugar, fags, and beers. A beautiful blind cog in the burgeoning, undeniable obesity (stupe oddity) epidemic, an epidemic invisible to the brainwashed cog. And then, the cog (s), zombie like, unwittingly offer up a 'supreme, scientific' (the magnificently conditioned cogs, replicating, teaching, the perfect wild colonial blindboys) three minute solution. And so the epidemic explodes to never before imagined proportions. Beyond ludicrous. Morons.
adolph didn't have to try too hard. Neither did pauline. Or thrusters. A few fibs will do it. Terror nullius reigns supreme. Bullshit shapes the cogs. The numbers don't lie. The packs of cogs are safe there.
Was one of 'em Bunker, BB? Or was it Taz?
But, if you must, hunt down Pikachu, blame him, throw a thruster, or ten, or twenty, beak noses even, at him (preferably in the hundred kilo weight range, definitely much more than fifty). Find him, seek him, even ban and block him! Find, capture and battle with Pikachu! Oh the fun, oh the rewards!
So do YOU ride twinnies in big barrels or not ?
No he don't, I reckon he rides a big fat arse McCoy. Complete different design concept. And get barrelled, nah takes off and all his doing is doing is getting out of there as fast as he can.
You could be right there cd.
A yes or no answer is all that's required.
So who, in this discussion, has actually ridden Pipe? Oh yeh that would be me! But you know, you tube and Google give you a pretty good idea yeh? Nah! Nothing, not at all. No idea. Is it possible to surf it on a twinnie, MR or otherwise, yes. Is it wise? Not unless you have an unusual style and have worked up your twinnie skills in less demanding waves. But obfuscate and bluster away pokeboy, I am studying your literary style so, in the grand tradition of us Ozzie white fellas, I can make a few bucks by ripping it off and diluting it down to a slightly more comprehensible form suitable for us dumb gubbas.
I've never been to Pipe.
Get some good ones , BB ?
If I did, it certainly wouldn't be a twin fin I'd be riding.
I'd probably look to what the 200 rippers tearing it apart were riding as a starting point.
Generally not twinnies either I imagine.
People rave about them in fun point breaks though.
Again, did any of you do better than the surfers mentioned at the places mentioned, who's performances were outstanding. A simple yes or no will do. We all know none of you did.
And again, lets just keep the actual facts clear.
Them's the simple facts, no matter how much they are despised.
Your confusion, your obvious errors have also been blatantly highlighted blinded. Those bungles, your ignorance, then lead to you frantically ranting about your supreme, authoritarian magnificence at some surf spot not even relevant. God knows why. The perfect, zombie like conditioning triggered on cue, despite being totally wrong, and totally ignorant of the two highlighted cases where 'twinnies' factually performed exceptionally, outstandingly, in serious, big barrels of note. The magnificently brainwashed, totally conditioned, blind, wild, and getting ever wilder, colonial blindboy, establishing, demanding false supremacy, and authority. Demanding, assuming false ownership. Based on nothing but pure, imagined bullshit.
And of course, on cue, the supporting cast of idiots, dimwits, cretins, appear like rabid, mere crude blowies, arising, triggered with out having a clue why.
Horrendous, affronting, but, simply, how else would adolph get people fed into blast furnaces. How else would licenses be issued to the zombie like, but oh so enthusiastic team of morons and cretins, completely brainwashed, blind, ignorant, often willfully, to simple, pure fact staring them in the face. Licenses to exterminate Traditional Indigenous Australians. Licenses to exterminate the most successful human beings ever.
And how else could the 'just move on', or any justification, or nothing but a total, 100% focused attempt at putting that right exist. The conditioning runs deep. Despite the facts, the bullshit reigns supreme.
And the bullshitters, just as they shape one nation, shape surfing. 'Twinnies are shit in big waves and the barrel.' Avoid them like the plague. Despise the fucking things. So of course the brainwashed masses do. Except, the actual truth is, they were outstanding in that exact scenario. Danger, danger, eggs will kill you! Except, the actual truth is, they are outstandingly good for you. So, of course the sucking on another durrie, slurping another bintang, and chowing down a wholemeal, organic, fat free creation, morons, cretins and zombies avoid eggs like the plague. Despise, and are terrified of the fucking things!
adolph didn't have to try too hard. Neither does pauline. Just spread a bit of bullshit. The blowies, the 'eavy bag champs will join the club. Its safe there. Numbers don't lie. Surely. Sheep know that. What's that smell?
Just to keep the spotlight on the truth. Here it is again. Despite the claims, and the highlighted, blatant ignorance, or put simply, the bullshit.
Needle stuck in the groove?
Head stuck in arse.
I think in one of the (many) previous threads he was bestowed with the label as the "barrel dodger". Looks like it still stands true.
To be fair more of MRs performances in Hawaii in waves of consequence were on single fin winged pintails than twins
I do like all his boards though
And the other two? To be fair? To,'advance Australia fair.' Or, beautifully conditioned, just ignore those outstanding facts? Move them on, to just get on with it, so to speak? Where have we seen that before? pauline's needles stuck in the rut stuff?
Maybe just flukes, just lucky ignoramuses, at best. Best educate them! Obviously pure bullshit, but so what, that worked before, still does! Bullshit rules! Surfing too! Ignore the truth, spin a few fibs! Just move on! Repeat as often as you like! Always new cogs coming though the system!
I sense a new band, a blindboy band! Everyone's doin' it, it must be the best! Ever!
Its coming. Yes! I like it! 'The blind cogs'. Just keep the amp stuck below 50kgs! Blinder's on the organ! Again!
At least little whinin' and whingin' fizzler, and blowie have bulked up a bit!
They actually look like WSL eeeellleeete performin''thletes don't they. Thrustin' away! Just a bit bigger, that's all!
Surfing's doomed. Flyblownin.
So do you ride twinnies in large barrels Lifty ?
Damn you pokeboy! How could you reveal our secret shame! But you still look quite fetching in the yellow skivvy. I could never understand why you missed out at The Wiggles auditions.
If your answer is no....it means you're a conditioned cog, you realise this ?
Not sure if surfing is doomed.
It was still fun last time I did it , regardless of the amount of fins on your board.
PS. Sorry about your thread Morg.
I don't ride twins, but iVe got a couple of mates that swear by them.
They mainly just surf sub head high Sunshine Coast beachies, but they do it well on those boards.
I rode something different again. In waves that flogged plenty of so called 'legends'. Never once had to look out for you on my right. Or, you can bullshit more if you like.
Totally irrelevant to the topic again though. To these facts. To the truth.
It's totally irrelevant that you don't ride the board you're championing ?
Now to get back on topic, fong if you look at my original comment it was that I (as in my own personal opinion to which despite the decline in civil liberties I still believe I am entitled to) did not like the look of MR twinnies. Nowhere did I suggest that this view was compulsory. I then went on to make the observation that people don't surf well on them. I then specifically allowed that other would probably disagree. So I accept that some find them exquisitely beautiful. There is no accounting for taste, each to his own etc etc. Nor did I criticise the way MR surfed them. It's true there was initially some head shaking about the wounded eagle look but his surfing was so overwhelming everyone got over it pretty quickly. What I will say though, and again this is just my observation, is that while what he did with the board was highly influential, the way he did it was not. Now it may be that in the depths of Newcastle shore breaks wounded eagles are as common as seagulls since I haven't surfed around there for a long time but I am very confident in asserting that they are rare to non-existent elsewhere. The man was a freak, his style was all his own and beyond emulation. Oh and Pipe? It was good value back then early in the morning. On small to medium days you could surf it with a couple of people
Again, irrelevant, more avoiding the fact, that the two examples cited, both stood out, both did far better than most, on the exact boards claimed as useless, and in the exact type of waves they supposedly can't handle. They excelled. Plenty of witnesses, in both cases, made a point of saying so. Just because you are unaware, the truth is still the truth, fact is fact. And, just as the british made false, biased judgements and claims about Traditional Indigenous Australians, assuming superior 'knowledge', again, the truth is still the truth. Despite their claim. Never underestimate the power of conditioning.
It would be a blast being given the opportunity to get to know the joint .
A moderate morning at pipe with a couple out.....heaven.
Strange that I've just been watching MR on YouTube a couple of nights ago after not paying much too little attention a long time ago.
I watched the Mark Richards tapes, but as a grom that lost his shit over Occy and Pottz he seemed a bit old school.
Probably the same way a grom today looks past Fanning to see Toledo or Craig Anderson.
Loved this though...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=16uv2np1Emk
Then this....more power than I remember.