Submitted by victor on Sat, 08/13/2011 - 09:06
has anyone been following willwebbers new concave decks.getting rave reviews up angas way, half inch or more of deck concave,with about double that through the bottom,checked his website saw a pic on there.laurie towner has had one shaped i believe and gives it the big rap.anyone got some info on them?..will webber give us some info.....twiggy u know anything about them ?
Another Webber invention?
Or perhaps this one already existed..........and isn't so new.
Just saying.....full respect to the Webber clan.
have not read or heard about the scooped decks being claimed as a new WEBBER INVENTION,just a style he doing at the moment from what i can gather ? yeh ,its probably been done before.just looking for some other surfers views or feedback from anybody who has one or tried one....thinking they maybe uncomfortable.....or the opposite .wondering on the thickness....concave bottom and deck....?
It isn't new been around for a very long time. I have 2 beautifully hand shaped boards with concave in the deck in the area over the fins - keel & quad. These boards go off but for many magical reasons.
floyd,can u elaborate on the many magical reasons re the deck concaves,what length and width are the boards,fin placement,rocker,and the type of waves you surf them in,do you have the decks glassed heavier due to more foam removed from the crust.a well used board will have footprint concave,cave in areas over the fins anyway.
will and I are into both single concave deck and bottom and double concave deck and bottom, and will has even done a single deck with a double bottom.
All about accentuating response in one area, ie much deeper bottom concaves, while moderating and stabilizing response in another area, which is deck volume distribution.
We have been hamstrung for years with concave at a max of about 1/4" becasue only the depth of concave was being increased. All shapers get to that limit and then think, "Ok we've gone as far as we/I can go and go back a bit" The vast majority of shapers have this refinement style or approach. However! for big jumps to take place two or more design elements have to be distorted at the same time in order for one of those elements to be taken to the extreme. Only when you change at least two key elements at the same time can jumps in design be achieved. It doesn't mean that the actual experiment will necessarily be a breakthru just cos you did two radical changes at once because you have to guess at the exact balance of the two opposing factors so that they will add up to still be a rideable surfboard on not just a great looking sculpture.
continued from above:
So if you can shape normal boards well and spend a few years trying these combination tests then you end up hitting the balance ore and more often. Will is obviously doing that, and being a bit like me he probably get's very bored of normal boards.
Another thing about deck concave experiments of the past is that I'd say none of them have had 1/2" concave on the bottom as well as 1/4" or so on the deck. They were usually just a normal board with a mild deck concave, like the ones Reno did for McCoy in the early 70's. (Mont bought one from a mate of ours and it went unreal) But if one was shaped with chunks of deck and bottom concave then good on the nut for shaping it! One added bonus is the closeness you get to the water as well. Rail volume might feel like 2 1/2" but you can be only 1" from the wave face, cos the centre thickness is about 1" So it feels really 'in' the wave, yet stable despite a massive concave. More speed, just as stable and close to the water. Next step for the deep single deck and bottom concave is super narrow!! Go Will! please do one and tell me how it went. eg 62 12 16 14 2 5/8 on rail 1 1/2 at centre
There is a new consequence of the deck and bottom double concaves that open a new door to design that has never been experimented with but I want to test it a bit more before talking about it.
Spewing I didn't know about this convo. 9 years later! Greg took care of it though
Dick Van Straalen is doing them also ...look at his Wasp
I just spent a fortnight riding a Webber Creature with double concave deck. A bizarre board to pick up and put under your arm as the rail feels like the thickest part of the board.
Gave the board back to its owner the other day. There were a few things I didn't like about it, but the concave deck ain't one of them. I'd consider doing it in other boards except it takes a lot of work to get the volume right.
Any chance of a review, Stu?
He who hesitates is lost
Nah. The problem was my current go to board is a very flat, wide fish, but I knocked the fin out during a run of south swell, then hopped onto the Creature with all it's continual curves and unusual volume placement. It threw me because I wasn't used to it. I also didn't want to ride it too much because I was really into the fish and knew it'd only be a matter of time till I got it back.
For a fair review I'd need to dedicate myself to the design for a few weeks at least, with some good surf in the mix. It's a design made to ride in good surf.
So my admiration is mostly theoretical.
Yep, fair enough that.
I've got a webber creature pops, happy to share thoughts if you are interested
If you've got the time to write about it, I've got the time to read.
I'm not in the market for a board at the moment, but I'm fascinated by that design.
Oh Max has plenty of time ;p
hahaha yeah, always time to froth....
i got my creature second hand mid last year i think, and rode it as my all round shortboard for about 6 months (up and down the east coast, G land, beachies in bali). Initial response was that it had amazing grip through carves and cutbacks, and felt super responsive rail to rail. So much energy under my feet even in waist high dribble. Your feet feel like they are gripping the board on a whole new level-like they are locked in. Didn't have a problem with the raised stringer when paddling either, i got used to it really quick and started to feel weird when i rode my other boards. honestly i loved it, and as i pushed in more powerful surf it felt better and better, but felt worse when it was smaller.... note that i initially thought it felt like a small wave board.... Unfortunately the board always had too much volume for me and i paid for it eventually. The rails look stupidly big and they kinda are but it works. so much volume is taken out between the rail and stringer on both the deck and the bottom that is accounts for the thick rails. Sometimes struggled a little on my backhand in powerful waves, could never get the rail to set comfortably...
Rode it religiously until i really pushed it to the maximum at one of the local reefs on the nb. Took off late and made a vertical drop, but couldn't engage the rail off the bottom. Instead of pulling up into a tube i got no drive and copped a 5ft lip on me.
My mates who watched down the line were pretty confused, i was laying over fully with my hand touching the wave (picture mick fannings bottom turns at bells - lol) except my board was flat on the wave face with no rail engaged. I didn't slide out, or lose my balance, just got lip axed after a few seconds of confusion. Still cant quite work it out tbh. Anyway got concussed from the flogging and never rode the board again.
I always get a lot out of the board discussions here on SN, so thought I'd add my thoughts on the Creature. For context, I'm in my mid 40s, 6'0, 75kgs, surfing around 30 years but never cracked upper intermediate. Been riding a 6'1 x 18 3/4 x 2 5/8 (remember the stringer line is thicker due to the deck / bottom contour, board is 28 litres) for about a year. Shared this with Greg a while back:
"The board feels positive. The double concave feels free when running flat, but engages very strongly on rail, pushes back hard at me and lets me really drive through turns. I have a 6’9 Rawson with a more subtle double that feels quite similar, love that loose feeling that changes over to bite when turning. What I really like is it seems to have a constant / smooth engagement rate. What I mean by that is that it feeds back at a linear level aligned with how much pressure I put on the rail - it is not an exponential engagement that increases at a rate out of synch with pressure applied (what I would describe as a “grabby” board). Very responsive rail to rail".
Further to that initial feedback, I'd add that the board is very fast when the waves are steep and running - you can get up on a high line and still have plenty of grip and sensitivity in the rail. It's funny you mention the rail wouldn't engage Max Wax, I find the opposite on my board, the rail won't let go unless I want it to. I know you mentioned yours may have been a bit over volumed for you.
In terms of personal drawbacks to the board, there is something going on with front foot drive on critical drops. If I can't get it to knife in and need to air drop a little, it doesn't have the "carry" that some boards seem to possess. To put it another way, if the rocker isn't well aligned with the wave curve through the drop, it seems dig and lose speed. All boards will do this to some extent, but it is quite pronounced in this board for me. Potentially something to do with the volume distribution or front end rocker - although the most likely culprit is user error.
On balance though, it's a great board that I found feels quite different to ride than other boards in the same category (HP shortie).
I've got a dvs quad skate with a scooped out deck, goes really well in the right waves. The Shane Slipper would have been one of the first concave deck boards wouldn't it?
I can vouch for most of your observations backhand, i was very close to ordering another creature with less volume, but decided it wasn't the most suitable board for the reefs i surf. I really need a lower rail to knife the drops. Went amazing on the beachies though, and will admit that in 2-4ft tubes it had pretty epic grip when negotiating foamballs, also forgot to mention the incredible speed the board had. I only experienced that sensation of having no bite on one occassion, but at the time i really wanted a shortboard that was super reliable, just something a little funny about the board as you have noticed too. In the end I mostly just grew out of the board and moved onto something else. The flogging just accelerated the process...
Max, backhand, thanks for the reviews. Sounds like the design just about does what it says on the box, but the rocker and rail could be improved (or you'd just need take some time to get used to them?)
The vibes I'm getting is something that would be epic on a walled-up point, or good quality beachy, but maybe not ideal for a slab?
And max, just to give me a shot at guessing (and so I can get an idea of what kind of wave did it in for you), what part of the NB was your reef in? Pittwater, Warringah or Manly?
I think it would work amazing in a slab if it was toned down a little, or with the right volume. I just couldn't be bothered waiting for greg to make me another one to see if it would improve it.... Another time.
And the wave is in manly
Realised you wanted to guess it pops so i edited it out haha...
;) more fun that way!
I hope i didn't make it too hard for you :)
put it this way.., if my guess is right, the failure of the board to engage might just say more about that wave than the board?