# Bitcoin #

udo's picture
udo started the topic in Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 3:49pm

The Bitcoin graph looks Interesting ! ?

Distracted's picture
Distracted's picture
Distracted Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022 at 11:09am

Heard the Russian oligarchs are putting lots of money into crypto now to avoid economic sanctions, so may kick it along again.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022 at 11:53am
bonza's picture
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bonza Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022 at 12:28pm

udo thats a scam mate

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022 at 1:15pm
bonza wrote:

udo thats a scam mate

I think that’s the one twiggy sued Facebook , for letting it repeatedly be advertised.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 5:28am

Watched the new Netflix docco "Trust No One: The Hunt for the Crypto King" last night. Good viewing.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 9:03pm

Hammered - $41K AuD
I wonder if Mr Twitter Musk will Tweet a few Key words for a Price rise ?

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 9:30pm

Where have all the crypto advisors gone?

donweather's picture
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donweather Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:52pm
burleigh wrote:

Where have all the crypto advisors gone?

Jumped off a cliff after holding LUNA. From $120 down to $0.02!!! I could never understand the hype around LUNA. Made no sense to me whatsoever. And UST got as as low as 30 cents. And it’s supposedly a stablecoin!!!

burleigh's picture
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burleigh Friday, 13 May 2022 at 10:33am
donweather wrote:
burleigh wrote:

Where have all the crypto advisors gone?

Jumped off a cliff after holding LUNA. From $120 down to $0.02!!! I could never understand the hype around LUNA. Made no sense to me whatsoever. And UST got as as low as 30 cents. And it’s supposedly a stablecoin!!!

Ouch. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Plenty of crypto gurus in Canggu will be heading home now

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Friday, 13 May 2022 at 10:46am

Here's something interesting I just saw:

"BlackRock and Citadel allegedly caused one of the largest #crypto crash of the last years. The two investors allegedly borrowed 100k #BTC from Gemini, swapped 25K of #BTC into #TerraUSD (#UST), called Terra Foundation suggesting they’d want to sell a large chunk of BTC for UST, and hinted to buy them at discount to avoid moving the market. https://lnkd.in/dAi_yJm2

Terra ($Luna) agreed to buy BTC for UST at a discount, lowering its own UST liquidity and reserves significantly. After which, BlackRock and Citadel dumped all UST and #BTC causing massive slippage and triggering a cascade of forced selling in both assets.

At the same time, this also triggered a cascade of withdrawals from another large crypto, $AnchorProtocol, holding large quantities of $Luna. The withdrawals were more than Anchor could repay, triggering a further sell-off in $Luna, thus further breaking the $1 peg of UST/USD.

#BTC currently trading below $27,000 (down 32.2% in 1 week) can now be bought by BlackRock and Citadel much cheaply, they can repay their loan, and pocket billions in difference. Meanwhile, over $300bn of long positions in stable and altcoins were wiped out, and $Luna tumbled from $86 to $0.16 in less than a week.

While BlackRock and Citadel denied the claims, only the actions of very large institutional investors could trigger such a tumble by two of the largest #cryptocurrencies. This was pure market manipulation. It is surprising that the largest investors in the world and loud advocate for ESG and Ethical investment is allegedly behind such actions. At which point trading and investing becomes market manipulation? Is #crypto investing supposed to align to #ESG standards, or is it still considered no man's land due to lack of regulations?"

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velocityjohnno Friday, 13 May 2022 at 12:36pm

media report picking up on the Machiavellian brilliance of this happening:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-13/bitcoin-crypto-terra-ust-luna-sta...

If your smart math guys can pick a hole in their algo, and you have the scale and intent, you can mess things up.

"Where did it go wrong?
Most stablecoins are backed by cash reserves, and they're supposed to have enough liquid assets on hand to match the value of each coin.

However, Terra (UST) is an “algorithmic” stablecoin — whose value is backed by a "sister" token called Luna, which is run on pre-programmed "smart contracts".

When Terra dips below $US1, it can be swapped for Luna tokens (at a small profit). In theory, that's meant to keep the value of both stable.

It's basically like printing money out of thin air, through a complex mix of "smart contracts" — to make sure the value of each UST token stays as close as possible to $US1.

But the problem was that these complex algorithms somehow failed spectacularly.

Luna somehow crashed at the same time as UST, in what has been described by analysts as a "death spiral". Essentially, investors rushed to liquidate their digital assets quicker than the "algorithmic" stabiliser could take effect.

The price of the "sister" token dropped from about $US86 at the start of this week, to just over 6 US cents on Thursday (which works out to be a 99 per cent fall, in a very short amount of time).

Investors suffered unprecedented losses as Luna's market value plummeted from $US40 billion to about $US500 million, which led to a sell-off and crisis of confidence across the wider cryptocurrency market.

How did the 'evil genius' plot unfold?
Nobody knows who caused the price of Terra and Luna to crash.

But many on social media are pointing the blame at the big US hedge funds, given the massive trades involved. Two firms, Citadel Securities and BlackRock, have already issued statements denying any involvement in Terra's crash.

"We don't know if the momentum was created by collusion [between hedge funds]," said Lisa Wade, the CEO of blockchain company DigitalX.

"Conspiracy theorists would say 'yes', because it's a massive trade. I mean, in all of my career, it's one of the biggest trades that I've seen," she told ABC's The Business.

"It's almost like an evil genius plot, because there are a lot of steps to it."

Ms Wade said, as part of this complex plot, the buyers appear to have purchased around $1 billion worth of UST stablecoins, while "shorting" bitcoin (which is a risky way to make money, by betting on the price of an asset falling — instead of rising).

"What they did next was they timed the market.

"So obviously we're in a really volatile risk-off stage of the market — because of everything that's been happening with the [US] Fed and the macro environment.

"They waited until a Saturday night when [trading] volumes were very low, and there were no bids.

"And then they went into a trading pool and started selling UST in massive volumes, which then triggered all of the subsequent selling in a low-volume market that broke the [US dollar] peg.

"Inside the algorithm was what our team had identified as a 'death spiral' ... the selling starts to feed on itself from the mechanics of the algorithm.

"So when the death spiral kicked in ... the algorithm started selling Bitcoin and Avalanche [another cryptocurrency], which triggers more selling.

"Luna was impacted because it's the underlying [backer] of the UST. So every time a UST [token] is bought, a Luna [token] is burnt, which means there's less tokens in supply, so the Luna price goes up.

"The reverse applies when people start selling. So every time someone sells a UST, they mint a Luna, which means there's more volume.

"And if there's no buyers and the price goes down, then it starts to feed on itself, because people start panicking and selling Luna.

"This was an exploitative trade that took advantage of the fact that markets are weaker. The perfect storm was nobody stepping up to buy the bitcoin and the UST". "

quite well written by ABC

monkeyboy's picture
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monkeyboy Friday, 13 May 2022 at 2:56pm

Its not regulated so nothing illegal has been done.

I feel for those individuals who have lost a large chunk/all of their savings. I hear there are some horror/suicidal stories over on Reddit.

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monkeyboy Friday, 13 May 2022 at 5:04pm
donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 9:57am
flollo wrote:

Here's something interesting I just saw:

"BlackRock and Citadel allegedly caused one of the largest #crypto crash of the last years. The two investors allegedly borrowed 100k #BTC from Gemini, swapped 25K of #BTC into #TerraUSD (#UST), called Terra Foundation suggesting they’d want to sell a large chunk of BTC for UST, and hinted to buy them at discount to avoid moving the market. https://lnkd.in/dAi_yJm2

Terra ($Luna) agreed to buy BTC for UST at a discount, lowering its own UST liquidity and reserves significantly. After which, BlackRock and Citadel dumped all UST and #BTC causing massive slippage and triggering a cascade of forced selling in both assets.

At the same time, this also triggered a cascade of withdrawals from another large crypto, $AnchorProtocol, holding large quantities of $Luna. The withdrawals were more than Anchor could repay, triggering a further sell-off in $Luna, thus further breaking the $1 peg of UST/USD.

#BTC currently trading below $27,000 (down 32.2% in 1 week) can now be bought by BlackRock and Citadel much cheaply, they can repay their loan, and pocket billions in difference. Meanwhile, over $300bn of long positions in stable and altcoins were wiped out, and $Luna tumbled from $86 to $0.16 in less than a week.

While BlackRock and Citadel denied the claims, only the actions of very large institutional investors could trigger such a tumble by two of the largest #cryptocurrencies. This was pure market manipulation. It is surprising that the largest investors in the world and loud advocate for ESG and Ethical investment is allegedly behind such actions. At which point trading and investing becomes market manipulation? Is #crypto investing supposed to align to #ESG standards, or is it still considered no man's land due to lack of regulations?"

is it market manipulation or just someone exposing the gaping hole in the Luna system? This Luna death spiral had been spoken about from the day Luna arrived and yet everyone blindly bought into it.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 11:25am

Pretty radical turn of events, indeed.

But.. isn't the risk - when chasing significant returns on highly volatile/speculative stocks - that it could also turn to shit?

Point being, as a non-crypto investor, I can't say I'm surprised.

Interesting speculation re: market manipulation too. But again, I'm not surprised.

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 11:40am

Why CRAHES are GOOD: Rich dad taught his son and me “Your profit is made when you buy…not when you sell.” Bitcoin is the future of money. That is why I will back up the truck when the bottom is in. It may be $17k or even lower $11k. Time to get richer is coming. Take care.
2:15 AM · May 14, 2022

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 11:53am
thermalben wrote:

Pretty radical turn of events, indeed.

But.. isn't the risk - when chasing significant returns on highly volatile/speculative stocks - that it could also turn to shit?

Point being, as a non-crypto investor, I can't say I'm surprised.

Interesting speculation re: market manipulation too. But again, I'm not surprised.

In a real world every every project and investment (regardless of what it is - crypto, shares, businesses…) would have a risk premium associated to it. Higher the risk, higher the premium expected by investors.

Here’s a wiki link on risk premium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_premium

Things turn really ugly when high risk premium requirements turn into unregulated, Wild West dodgy pump and dump schemes. Unfortunately, often they come with collateral damage in human suffering.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 12:01pm

Oh wow, a genuine hyperinflation (caused by the inexorability of the algo?). What a time to be alive.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 12:05pm

Agree Flollo. Staking for 20% return with peg to USD, if I understand right, is really generous reward for seemingly little risk.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 2:43pm

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/146279/as-luna-holders-watch-the-tok...

& a 3 week turnaround to unstake... surely alarm bells were ringing? Or are people incredibly trusting now?

"When coins are staked, they are locked up indefinitely and the holder receives tokens as rewards. When the holder chooses to unstake them, they are able to get their tokens back after a period of time and then no longer receive rewards. Staking periods can range between different cryptocurrencies, but for Luna, it’s 21 days that you have to wait to get your tokens back.

Normally this isn’t a big problem. While crypto prices are volatile, stakers typically accept this and are used to day-to-day fluctuations. If the market starts declining, worried holders can unstake their tokens and cash out within a few weeks."

Within a few weeks. Far out.

monkeyboy's picture
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monkeyboy Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 6:51am

oops. Why would you bet your country on Bitcoin ?

https://english.elpais.com/international/2022-05-11/el-salvador-reveals-...

donweather's picture
donweather's picture
donweather Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 8:00am
monkeyboy wrote:

oops. Why would you bet your country on Bitcoin ?

https://english.elpais.com/international/2022-05-11/el-salvador-reveals-...

Because they have no other in country currency that was worth anything.