Do you think this product would sell? Increase volume of old boards.

groundswell's picture
groundswell started the topic in Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 7:05pm

Like full deck grip tape except more bouyant. Stick it on old boards you're growing out of to increase volume by a lire or two.
Do you think this would sell?
Im thinking of making a couple for some old faithfulls ive out grown but wondering if it could be worth mass producing them for the market.
Would make board thicker by a few mm.

Not sure if it would even work and what sort of material to be honest, possibly EVA. though i think deck grip is made from this.
Im posting here because am not too concerned if the idea is stolen and mass produced by someone else.
Have too many better ideas anyway to put money into.

Would you use it on a board you have outgrown a bit rather than buying a new board?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 7:16pm

I don't understand how it'll increase the volume.

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 7:23pm

Not really volume but buoyancy. By being more bouyant than water and stuck onto the deck of a board. It might be hard to stick on though without bubbles or cutting it into strips.

Not sure if it will work really just kind of putting it out there.

sunshine's picture
sunshine's picture
sunshine commented Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 8:53pm

bloodOath it works mate.use the camping foam-floor material available from k_mart and stick it on with sikaflex.one layer works great but i prefer four.needless to say ,i can throw a bit of water on the old bitch!!!!!

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 9:07pm

Ha ha, classic post groundswell this is the kind of stuff i think up but never actually follow through with.

Thinking about it, you have now put my head in a spin one second im thinking yeah it would its just like extra foam next second im thinking um nah

But im settling on that it would and its no different really to like cork inlay kind of thing that some guys have been known to do on boards (also gives a dampening effect some more ridged epoxy builds)

Id be real skeptical on getting a litre of extra buoyancy though i think it would be less than 0.5 of a litre? (but thats just my guess)

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

sunshine's picture
sunshine's picture
sunshine commented Sunday, 17 Nov 2013 at 11:12pm

yeah apart from it being a bit like throwing 100 balloons into a tinny and expecting it to float higher out of the water,mate Id be nearly DOUBLING the volume of my 6'3" by using four layers of the stuff. makes it a bit hard pulling in on 10 foot double ups though!!!!!

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 4:05am

haha I cant tell if you're serious sunshine. Good stuff either way.
Two boards on top of each other float more. Wouldnt it be similar? especially if well attached and bouyant. EVA might not be very bouyant though. Cork might be.

Indo D if its only a half litre it might not be worth the effort and cost and bad aesthetics.
Will ask my brother he studied all this stuff at uni. And fluid dynamics too. Have some fin slot ideas specializing in keels. None ive seen seem that great for keels.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 8:10am

Sorry groundswell that won't work at all.

You need to change the properties of the actual foam/material that's in the water and displacing the water to change the volume.

Sticking foam on top of the board won't do a thing except add more weight and then undo what you're trying to achieve.

 

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 8:57am

deck grip and tail pads the material used for these is porous isn't it ?

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 10:11am

Just a correction to mine, I was just talking about the board sitting there floating on the surface and adding more foam.

Of course when you start surfing it and pushing it under water it would become more floaty and corky, but surely this will affect the dynamics of the board in a detrimental way.

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 4:02pm

Thanks Craig. will probably not sell then lol.
The glue might also increase weight and lose any buoyancy effect.
The main thing for buoyancy would be for paddling into a wave or in a rip. once up most want them less buoyant.
Wouldn't it be the same as the board being a little thicker? maybe not equivalent as the foam core but thicker to some degree.

I agree it would change the dynamics especially the feel and angles your feet take while surfing.
Could be worth a try if it increase paddle buoyancy a litre or more, no less, otherwise waste of time.

Still not 100% if sunshine is serious, he is probably joking but ive seen people do weirder things than that :) .

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 4:20pm

Yeah for all of the effort you'd go to to achieve this, I reckon you're better off speaking to your local shaper about getting a new board with a little more volume :)

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 4:39pm

Im not sure if i understand or agree with what Craig is saying.

My gut tells me the board will still sit in the water the same but you may sit a little higher, but in a way it will be more buoyant if say you try and push your board down under the water it will take more weight to fully submerge the board.

I guess the only way to really know is to grab an old board and experiment.

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Monday, 18 Nov 2013 at 4:40pm

thermalben wrote:

Yeah for all of the effort you'd go to to achieve this, I reckon you're better off speaking to your local shaper about getting a new board with a little more volume :)

ha ha too true.

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Tuesday, 19 Nov 2013 at 2:34am

thermalben wrote:

Yeah for all of the effort you'd go to to achieve this, I reckon you're better off speaking to your local shaper about getting a new board with a little more volume :)

Yeah probably. Im being a tight ass lately though :)

What ever happened to full deck grip from the eighties anyway? Never used deck pads myself but was it not as good as wax? Astro deck still make it i think but rarely see anyone using it. Like Udo says it might be porous or neutral in bouyancy? In black it still looks alright.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Tuesday, 19 Nov 2013 at 7:06am

indo-dreaming wrote: Im not sure if i understand or agree with what Craig is saying. My gut tells me the board will still sit in the water the same but you may sit a little higher, but in a way it will be more buoyant if say you try and push your board down under the water it will take more weight to fully submerge the board. I guess the only way to really know is to grab an old board and experiment.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at, if pushed under water it would definitely be more buoyant but the dynamics of the board would be all over the shop.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Nov 2013 at 8:22am

I had a full deck gorilla grip damien hardman on my first custom (second board) from memory it went pretty good but i think people think the front foot grip can get slippery? or gives you rash if u go bare chested .

Honestly i think there would be virtually no buoyancy in deck grip anyway, yes it floats but i dont think it could hold even a baby mouse.

For further reference and common sense.

General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith

JaM's picture
JaM's picture
JaM commented Tuesday, 19 Nov 2013 at 2:46pm

thermalben wrote:

Yeah for all of the effort you'd go to to achieve this, I reckon you're better off speaking to your local shaper about getting a new board with a little more volume :)

Or stop eating all the pies and cakes! Getting fit and losing a couple kg's is the best (and cheapest) option in the long run!

sunshine's picture
sunshine's picture
sunshine commented Tuesday, 19 Nov 2013 at 6:22pm

sure im serious(.seriously Lazy.) despite years of thinking about it,i never did try it. that's what I would use tho. it might be problematic but im 98%sure it would work.yeh u can make yr own fulldeck grip..its still sold in big sheets for standup paddleboards.:]]] wax is so seventies dude.

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Friday, 22 Nov 2013 at 6:05am

Hmm. Interesting i agree with most of the posts. all my boards not including mals or fish sit under water while paddling or sitting on my board. I think if it was made from something watertight and really light and flexy it would help. Not sure it would surf well. I have three stretch's here and another in indo.
One could be an experiment to try it out as they are all the same and a bit thin.
I use one at guillotines which breaks real close to the rocks and other reef breaks.
It might prevent a few dings too lol. Though the fins and bottom are more at risk.If you come unstuck, You get flipped all over the place on the foamball there and sometimes get pushed along off your board doing cart wheels for seconds fretting the upcoming rocky ledges :)

dumpy's picture
dumpy's picture
dumpy commented Monday, 25 Nov 2013 at 8:04am

I like this idea! I have an old favourite that i'd like to try this on!
Increasing the board's volume increases the buoyancy (when it is immersed fully)...
so my paddling will be assisted, but once the old favourite board is up and planing, the dynamics should be identical given that the shape of the surface in contact with the water hasn't changed...(oh... barring the centre of gravity change due to: (1) the thickness of the added foam layer and (2) my fat guts that were added in the 15 years since I last surfed that favourite board!) he he he

Umm for the record i thought i'd mention the following:
From Fluid Mechanics 2nd edn (Douglas Gasiorek, Swaffield) 1985 p71:
"the only force exerted on an immersed body is vertical and is called buoyancy or upthrust" ...
"upthrust on body = weight of fluid displaced by the body"

so for example a board with 30 litre volume will have 30kg upthrust. Then, you subtract the weight of the board from this 30 kg for a final upthrust value.
Therefore if the foam addition to the deck is of lower density than water, the additional volume gained would offset any mass addition, and buoyancy increased.

I remember some of the kneelos down here would glue a layer of 15mm foam to their decks more for comfort than buoyancy, but im gonna go find me some of that stuff!

thanks for the idea groundswell!

on usenet my friends .sig was "leave only footprints" but if you do that some one will follow.... :D

mundies's picture
mundies's picture
mundies commented Monday, 25 Nov 2013 at 10:03am

Dumpy is that equation based on the assumption its at sea surface level? Also my understanding of deeply submerged objects is that there is also high pressure on them pushing inwards. Which is why submarines are required to be so strong, and the ultra deep remote submersibles even more so. The opposite applies in space - the vacuum is constantly trying to pull everything apart. This is countered by gravity in large objects such as planets, but if you jumped into a complete vacuum such as space you'd blow up like a balloon then explode just like in that old school Arnie movie Total Recall

mundies

dumpy's picture
dumpy's picture
dumpy commented Tuesday, 3 Dec 2013 at 9:07pm

Hey mundies, sorry for the late reply, I have been away working.
The upthrust/bouyancy is Archimedes principle, I believe it is valid at any depth, in whatever fluid.
Compressibility of an object such as a submarine, is a different thing to upthrust.
You are right, great pressures are imposed on objects the deeper they go
(pressure = fluiddensityXgravityXdepth= ForcePerUnitArea).
I am not sure about the jumping into a vacuum thing, however, this site seems to refute your assertion: http://www.geoffreylandis.com/vacuum.html
The 'explosive decompression' seems to be the worst scenario. Lesson learnt: don't hold breath, and avoid baked beans!

may your waves be good waves!

on usenet my friends .sig was "leave only footprints" but if you do that some one will follow.... :D

groundswell's picture
groundswell's picture
groundswell commented Thursday, 5 Dec 2013 at 3:02am

Let us know how it goes Dumpy. I see theres a few places that sell different thicknesses of EVA if thats what you plan to use.
Would love to know if it worked and still surfed alright.