The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
The "Yes" option in the campaign, as run to date, may not be so "kind" as some present as it seems built on an overpromise.
Given the lack of explanation as to how things will be improved and clear cut examples where similar large committees have turned around intractable social and economic problems, The Voice seems likely to offer a substantial overpromise to FNP in the challenging areas of health, housing, education poverty, family violence etc This could lead to a major disappointment as good outcomes will be a struggle. It could also lead to disheartenment and disillusionment. It could lead to blame and destructive fractures within FNP.
"Yes" comes with significant risks for FNP.
southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Typical mindless deflection off topic as per usual. Nothing of substance.
You're out of your depth on this one Burleigh and your lack of education is showing you up for a fool.As was the previous post Southern. Your bias is also very clear. A simple minded fool.
Geez the cream is really rising to the top today. Do you clowns share the same single brain cell? Unbelievable.
You lot are so scared. Fearful of what you will lose.
Never considering just a little sacrifice for the greater good. Always acting out of fear.
It seems to be the Australian way these days.
I'd hate to wake up everyday a scared frighten little kitten like you lot. I can only pity you.Nothing you haven’t parroted 5 times before Southern. Same dribble from the same fool
You're a pussy mate.
In every way.
never understood while someone would call another person a pussy. Open your foolish narrow mind and think about it...... ya ballbag
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUOaXQncyB0aGUgdmliZSA%3D green room wrote:gsco wrote:southernraw wrote:Gsco do you believe reparations of any kind are necessary? Seems you wont address the actual issue.
Finally, someone asking me a valid question instead of abusing me.
Yes, 100%, as the wise person who originated this thread argued.
But inserting race and ethnicity based clauses into the constitution goes against all the lessons of history and the very reason Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured as they are after about 2,000 years of experimentation, wars, ups and downs, large scale societal failures, political and legal thought, etc.
Repatriations can be and have for decades been given without altering the constitution.
Quite simply, the culmination of the whole history and lessons of western civilisation is Australia, as embodied in our political, legal and economic etc institutions. The Voice as it stands is either intentionally blatantly contemptuous of this or just unaware of it.
correct
correct correct
and I think this backwards step bothers people much more than the vulgarists could possibly comprehend
"The Voice as it stands is either intentionally blatantly contemptuous of this or just unaware of it."
not sure which is worse
people who most certainly will not be voting dutton next election btw
regardless of the outcome of the referendum
Here's how [NO] Camp Power Monger brands her same fellow [NO] Camp pot boiler.
It's Unparliamentary to call out Racism but not Unparliamentary to be a Racist.
Guess that's too much to fit on a Sign...easier for the kids to repeatedly scream it at the racist!
Can see why the [NO] crew are palpable at Alex Antic coppin' Fever Pitch bread'n'butter!
Never saw Alex wearing [NO] Shirt...
So who were the [yes] Camp branding a racist...(The racist or the [NO] Camp?)
Do we get to see Alex drummin' up his cheer squad...?
Not that it matters...Alex brewed up a batch then hit record...milked the feedback [Front Page]
Votes 4 Jam!
https://greens.org.au/news/media-release/its-unparliamentary-call-out-ra...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11191953/Lidia-Thorpe-thrown-Se...
Go straya !
;);)
https://m.
tbb feels dirty after fallin' for the [NO] Camp hype...now gotta apologize!
This is not a [YES] Protest as portrayed by media & again here!
It's a Local Socialist Protesters Anti Aukus Picket.
They turned up for Aukus Conference at same venue.[Books not Bombs] etc...
Not one [YES] Picket sign in sight.
Never was! Never will be...[YES] protesters picket site.
[YES] Camp / Premier / PM were quick to denounce it!
[L] Media ...Wot! Us stir shit up to blame [YES] ... never!
Never stopped the pollie drum up his [NO] Media Beat Up...Marcia! Marcia! Maria!
Big [NO] Cry Babies Fake News once again...courtesy of Racist Alex!
Blanket [NO] Media Apology not expected as usual...
More fake Reffo > fake Lego > fake Marcia > fake No Impact > fake Treaty > fake [YES] Protest
What lame sheep wouldn't wanna Vote for such feeble bullshitters...give it a little bit of Vitriol.
Turn it up [L]ame [NO]
gsco et al. "But inserting race and ethnicity based clauses into the constitution goes against all the lessons of history and the very reason Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured as they are after about 2,000 years of experimentation, wars, ups and downs, large scale societal failures, political and legal thought, etc......correct"
This is not "correct".
There was a race based clause specifically and intentionally included in the Constitution in 1901.
That clause allowing race based legislation is still there today, it will not be repealed by this referendum. That is how " Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured" in 1901 and is still structured today.
The Voice referendum is not based on race or ethnicity.
The Voice referendum is based on indigeneity. There is an enormous difference.
Could the No proponents please stop repeating these falsehoods, this has been explained many times, including on these pages.
The race power, s51(xxvi) is a race and ethnicity based clause. Whether that goes against "all the lessons of history" or not, it exists and has since federation.
The Voice referendum amendments are not race or ethnically based.
Fliplid wrote:@indo
“I only provided the link to the article as, i was quoting and providing evidence of the hook comment, as i knew that the those involved in the voice have described the voice as the hook to get treaty etc”
Fair enough. I guess there may be some truth in the “hook” comment, although even the author seems to be hedging his bets about what was said so It’s hard to determine the accuracy of the “evidence”
Even so, I’m struggling to understand exactly how the “activists” are supposed to get what they want when the Voice has no direct power and anything that is suggested then needs to be ratified by Parliament. It could almost be made into a toothless tiger in some ways as it is totally reliant on the goodwill of the Parliament
“Anyway, its really not about politics, its about doing whats right for the future of Australia and preserving the integrity of the most important document our country has,”
Dutton is nothing but politics and he openly admits that he goes in boots and all. You’ve only got to look at the language he throws around to see that. It’s an ‘us and them’ mentality with him and always has been. The Constitution will be fine and this process is working exactly how it was designed to work
No one seems to have picked up on the fact that the LNP who have been spending the most on indigenous affairs over the decades are saying that it hasn’t been working but are now claiming they have a better solution to fix things. The Voice could be a way to redirect all that money in a more effective way and that’s why it could be a good thing for the country
NO monies will be "redirected" from any current fnp agency's nor will any be closed or anybody lose their well paid jobs if the voice wins the reffo.
profesor marcia langton said on msm last week, not exact words but factual.
IMO she was letting fnp public servants know their careers were safe so vote yes.
the voice will be another independant (secret) beaurocracy funded by the public taxpayer.
adam12 wrote:gsco et al. "But inserting race and ethnicity based clauses into the constitution goes against all the lessons of history and the very reason Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured as they are after about 2,000 years of experimentation, wars, ups and downs, large scale societal failures, political and legal thought, etc......correct"
This is not "correct".
There was a race based clause specifically and intentionally included in the Constitution in 1901.
That clause allowing race based legislation is still there today, it will not be repealed by this referendum. That is how " Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured" in 1901 and is still structured today.The Voice referendum is not based on race or ethnicity.
The Voice referendum is based on indigeneity. There is an enormous difference.
Could the No proponents please stop repeating these falsehoods, this has been explained many times, including on these pages.
The race power, s51(xxvi) is a race and ethnicity based clause. Whether that goes against "all the lessons of history" or not, it exists and has since federation.
The Voice referendum amendments are not race or ethnically based.
I was waiting for someone to respond with this argument.
So the correct step to take is to remove all race based clauses in the constitution, not add new ones.
That is the lesson of history and trajectory of humanity: towards no discrimination based on anyones’s particular background.
The Voice is precisely about race and ethnicity. it’s not about anything else.
I’m sure I’ve read it will be open and transparent not secret.
southernraw wrote:I wish Marcia had doubled down.
History will judge you lot very poorly.
I wonder if your kids think the same as you.
Poisoned by the tree
S.R. all of these isolated gated fnp communities are brainwashing their piccaninies from preschool,from 4yrs old, to be prejudiced towards white ppl.
bridgeing the gap? oh and thousands of em grow up illiterate, no english, reading or writeing skills. all ok by their ruleing elite and jack thompson (breaker morant).
sameaswas wrote:S.R. all of these isolated gated fnp communities are brainwashing their piccaninies from preschool,from 4yrs old, to be prejudiced towards white ppl.
"piccaninies"? sameaswas going full, unapologetic racism here. What a peach. Looks like you're only semi-literate there yourself, fuckface.
Yeew, we're going blatant racism on here!
Nail your colours to the mast boys!
@sameaswas
"NO monies will be "redirected" from any current fnp agency's nor will any be closed or anybody lose their well paid jobs if the voice wins the reffo.
profesor marcia langton said on msm last week, not exact words but factual."
I'd be interested in hearing or reading what Marcia Langton actually said, an unedited version that is, do you have a link?
gsco wrote:adam12 wrote:gsco et al. "But inserting race and ethnicity based clauses into the constitution goes against all the lessons of history and the very reason Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured as they are after about 2,000 years of experimentation, wars, ups and downs, large scale societal failures, political and legal thought, etc......correct"
This is not "correct".
There was a race based clause specifically and intentionally included in the Constitution in 1901.
That clause allowing race based legislation is still there today, it will not be repealed by this referendum. That is how " Australian political and legal institutions were settled upon and structured" in 1901 and is still structured today.The Voice referendum is not based on race or ethnicity.
The Voice referendum is based on indigeneity. There is an enormous difference.
Could the No proponents please stop repeating these falsehoods, this has been explained many times, including on these pages.
The race power, s51(xxvi) is a race and ethnicity based clause. Whether that goes against "all the lessons of history" or not, it exists and has since federation.
The Voice referendum amendments are not race or ethnically based.I was waiting for someone to respond with this argument.
So the correct step to take is to remove all race based clauses in the constitution, not add new ones.
That is the lesson of history and trajectory of humanity: towards no discrimination based on anyones’s particular background.
The Voice is precisely about race and ethnicity. it’s not about anything else.
yep, its a step backwards no matter how you define it
and... 'indigenity'...
won't even go there
but a newly found love of possum skin don't cut it
fuck that guy is annoying
sameaswas wrote:southernraw wrote:I wish Marcia had doubled down.
History will judge you lot very poorly.
I wonder if your kids think the same as you.
Poisoned by the treeS.R. all of these isolated gated fnp communities are brainwashing their piccaninies from preschool,from 4yrs old, to be prejudiced towards white ppl.
bridgeing the gap? oh and thousands of em grow up illiterate, no english, reading or writeing skills. all ok by their ruleing elite and jack thompson (breaker morant).
Citation required....
Few spelling mistakes also....
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUXYWIgb3JpZ2luYWwgY2FsbCBlbSBvdXQ%3D burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Typical mindless deflection off topic as per usual. Nothing of substance.
You're out of your depth on this one Burleigh and your lack of education is showing you up for a fool.As was the previous post Southern. Your bias is also very clear. A simple minded fool.
Geez the cream is really rising to the top today. Do you clowns share the same single brain cell? Unbelievable.
You lot are so scared. Fearful of what you will lose.
Never considering just a little sacrifice for the greater good. Always acting out of fear.
It seems to be the Australian way these days.
I'd hate to wake up everyday a scared frighten little kitten like you lot. I can only pity you.Nothing you haven’t parroted 5 times before Southern. Same dribble from the same fool
You're a pussy mate.
In every way.never understood while someone would call another person a pussy. Open your foolish narrow mind and think about it...... ya ballbag
Meow. Etc etc.
Be brave burleigh..
Don't be scared of what you dont understand.
Educate yourself.
southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Typical mindless deflection off topic as per usual. Nothing of substance.
You're out of your depth on this one Burleigh and your lack of education is showing you up for a fool.As was the previous post Southern. Your bias is also very clear. A simple minded fool.
Geez the cream is really rising to the top today. Do you clowns share the same single brain cell? Unbelievable.
You lot are so scared. Fearful of what you will lose.
Never considering just a little sacrifice for the greater good. Always acting out of fear.
It seems to be the Australian way these days.
I'd hate to wake up everyday a scared frighten little kitten like you lot. I can only pity you.Nothing you haven’t parroted 5 times before Southern. Same dribble from the same fool
You're a pussy mate.
In every way.never understood while someone would call another person a pussy. Open your foolish narrow mind and think about it...... ya ballbag
Meow. Etc etc.
Be brave burleigh..
Don't be scared of what you dont understand.
Educate yourself.
Right back at ya ballbag.
The voice isn’t the answer. Never was, never will be. Let the FNP decide. Not the other 97%
Another reason I’m voting NO
“ Let the FNP decide.”
You really don’t seem to get it.
AndyM wrote:“ Let the FNP decide.”
You really don’t seem to get it.
What about the message from the honourable senior initiated political clan leader of the Yolŋu Nation, Rev Dr Djiniyini Gondarra OAM.
Do you get that?
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Typical mindless deflection off topic as per usual. Nothing of substance.
You're out of your depth on this one Burleigh and your lack of education is showing you up for a fool.As was the previous post Southern. Your bias is also very clear. A simple minded fool.
Geez the cream is really rising to the top today. Do you clowns share the same single brain cell? Unbelievable.
You lot are so scared. Fearful of what you will lose.
Never considering just a little sacrifice for the greater good. Always acting out of fear.
It seems to be the Australian way these days.
I'd hate to wake up everyday a scared frighten little kitten like you lot. I can only pity you.Nothing you haven’t parroted 5 times before Southern. Same dribble from the same fool
You're a pussy mate.
In every way.never understood while someone would call another person a pussy. Open your foolish narrow mind and think about it...... ya ballbag
Meow. Etc etc.
Be brave burleigh..
Don't be scared of what you dont understand.
Educate yourself.Right back at ya ballbag.
You really are a fukwit arent you.
Uneducated scared little troll.
burleigh wrote:AndyM wrote:“ Let the FNP decide.”
You really don’t seem to get it.
What about the message from the honourable senior initiated political clan leader of the Yolŋu Nation, Rev Dr Djiniyini Gondarra OAM.
Do you get that?
So, Treaty, self government and to be an independent nation?
burleigh wrote:The voice isn’t the answer. Never was, never will be. Let the FNP decide. Not the other 97%
Another reason I’m voting NOhttps://www.instagram.com/reel/CxVI-RDI7w9/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
This threads been going 3 years. This fukwit comes along in last month and all of a sudden is an expert in indigenous affairs. Its bad because government.
Where have you been on this discussion before it was on the news?
What a frikn deadset pussy. Living a life of fear, sitting on SN all day everyday showing your fear.
Doesn't understand basic fundamentals of a debate... posts instagram stories to try to make everyone understand 'we're being fooled". A walking talking contradiction. So many holes in your arguments its not even worth pointing them out.
Sadly, the burleighs and lowinfos of the world are seemingly the majority.
Fliplid wrote:burleigh wrote:AndyM wrote:“ Let the FNP decide.”
You really don’t seem to get it.
What about the message from the honourable senior initiated political clan leader of the Yolŋu Nation, Rev Dr Djiniyini Gondarra OAM.
Do you get that?
So, Treaty, self government and to be an independent nation?
well, if thats what the FNP want. Isn't that what the voice is all about? Or do you still want to control them?
southernraw wrote:Sadly, the burleighs and lowinfos of the world are seemingly the majority.
Tell me exactly where it hurts ballbag. Keep calling me a pussy, it's a compliment. Those things give life.
Fliplid wrote:@sameaswas
"NO monies will be "redirected" from any current fnp agency's nor will any be closed or anybody lose their well paid jobs if the voice wins the reffo.
profesor marcia langton said on msm last week, not exact words but factual."
I'd be interested in hearing or reading what Marcia Langton actually said, an unedited version that is, do you have a link?
flippy no link, she did say it last week however she has history for deleteing her posts like at the beginning of this arduous propaganda reffo when asked "what the voice meant" by a journalist on tv she replied "if the public knew all the info they would'nt vote for it"...no bull she said that but you won't find it on internet(?).
piccaninny is not a racist slur if u want racism listen to "king billy"
burleigh wrote:southernraw wrote:Sadly, the burleighs and lowinfos of the world are seemingly the majority.
Tell me exactly where it hurts ballbag. Keep calling me a pussy, it's a compliment. Those things give life.
Would anyone be surprised if burleigh turned up on the news involved in some conspiracy theory terror plot.
Better watch out Burleigh. Government might be watching your online activity.
southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:The voice isn’t the answer. Never was, never will be. Let the FNP decide. Not the other 97%
Another reason I’m voting NOhttps://www.instagram.com/reel/CxVI-RDI7w9/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
This threads been going 3 years. This fukwit comes along in last month and all of a sudden is an expert in indigenous affairs. Its bad because government.
Where have you been on this discussion before it was on the news?
What a frikn deadset pussy. Living a life of fear, sitting on SN all day everyday showing your fear.
Doesn't understand basic fundamentals of a debate... posts instagram stories to try to make everyone understand 'we're being fooled". A walking talking contradiction. So many holes in your arguments its not even worth pointing them out.
Sadly, the burleighs and lowinfos of the world are seemingly the majority.
S.R. your on here everyday haveing dummyspits + others some who are advocateing violence eg "king billys" mate(s).
sameaswas wrote:southernraw wrote:burleigh wrote:The voice isn’t the answer. Never was, never will be. Let the FNP decide. Not the other 97%
Another reason I’m voting NOhttps://www.instagram.com/reel/CxVI-RDI7w9/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
This threads been going 3 years. This fukwit comes along in last month and all of a sudden is an expert in indigenous affairs. Its bad because government.
Where have you been on this discussion before it was on the news?
What a frikn deadset pussy. Living a life of fear, sitting on SN all day everyday showing your fear.
Doesn't understand basic fundamentals of a debate... posts instagram stories to try to make everyone understand 'we're being fooled". A walking talking contradiction. So many holes in your arguments its not even worth pointing them out.
Sadly, the burleighs and lowinfos of the world are seemingly the majority.S.R. your on here everyday haveing dummyspits + others some who are advocateing violence eg "king billys" mate(s).
And then you've got this dipshit...
@burleigh
"well, if thats what the FNP want. Isn't that what the voice is all about? Or do you still want to control them?"
Not at all. What ever suits them is fine by me, besides I don't know what the voice is about, no details, remember?
@sameaswas "flippy no link, she did say it last week however she has history for deleteing her posts like at the beginning of this arduous propaganda reffo when asked "what the voice meant" by a journalist on tv she replied "if the public knew all the info they would'nt vote for it"...no bull she said that but you won't find it on internet(?)."
I guess I'll just have to take your word for it, good thing we've got you to fill in the details for us
so you yes mob are happy to take business council of australia monies ($100mil) from foreign multinationals to influence our democratic process which they did with bill shorten's run for p.m. via hancock and twiggy forrest cos they were ozzy citizens but we all know the bca and foreign multis were onboard and rio tinto blew up the caves???
and you think you are on higher moral ground?
sameaswas wrote:piccaninny is not a racist slur if u want racism listen to "king billy"
Well, it is, and the whole rest of your comment was racist as well. You don't get to say something isn't racist because there's something else more racist.
Interestingly most of the younger crew around here are all for yes.
Most older crew are hard no's.
I wonder if crew who have kids of voting age would b willing to share on here if their kids are voting y or n.
Ummmm
its been revealed jacinta has billed Australian taxpayers $76000 for business class flights ;)
- is she truly representing the fnp, or just being another political snout in the trough good for nothing leach ?
Looking out for which people ;)
Fliplid wrote:@burleigh
"well, if thats what the FNP want. Isn't that what the voice is all about? Or do you still want to control them?"Not at all. What ever suits them is fine by me, besides I don't know what the voice is about, no details, remember?
@sameaswas "flippy no link, she did say it last week however she has history for deleteing her posts like at the beginning of this arduous propaganda reffo when asked "what the voice meant" by a journalist on tv she replied "if the public knew all the info they would'nt vote for it"...no bull she said that but you won't find it on internet(?)."
I guess I'll just have to take your word for it, good thing we've got you to fill in the details for us
why not get onto the voice advocates and ask them to put it to marcia and she can sue me via the aboriginal legal aid lawyers for alleged slander, i mentioned the same quote 9mnthys ago.
sameaswas wrote:Fliplid wrote:@burleigh
"well, if thats what the FNP want. Isn't that what the voice is all about? Or do you still want to control them?"Not at all. What ever suits them is fine by me, besides I don't know what the voice is about, no details, remember?
@sameaswas "flippy no link, she did say it last week however she has history for deleteing her posts like at the beginning of this arduous propaganda reffo when asked "what the voice meant" by a journalist on tv she replied "if the public knew all the info they would'nt vote for it"...no bull she said that but you won't find it on internet(?)."
I guess I'll just have to take your word for it, good thing we've got you to fill in the details for us
why not get onto the voice advocates and ask them to put it to marcia and she can sue me via the aboriginal legal aid lawyers for alleged slander, i mentioned the same quote 9mnthys ago.
Still can't believe you were calling out other people's perceived illiteracy.
I thought the majority had decided and after lots of discussions and differences it came down to the Uluṟu statement.
“Let them decide” They did! But unfortunately we all have to vote on this one. That’s where it’s going awry.
Jelly Flater wrote:Ummmm
its been revealed jacinta has billed Australian taxpayers $76000 for business class flights ;)
- is she truly representing the fnp, or just being another political snout in the trough good for nothing leach ?
Looking out for which people ;)
$370billion + $100mill from business council of oz + $34billion per annum for fnp beaurocracy's
land councils allocateing govt monies willynilly, all of em cronies..mates of marcia and co.
no accountability, secrecy.
i saw a video of ken bloody oath ystrday, he said "34billion dollrs a year on fnp's and they want a voice!"..."it's not a voice they need it's a fuckin audit they need!!....hahaha he cracked up laughing, me too.
gee, he sounds a witty vaudevillian, I'm sure he'd do well on the RSL circuit up north with an afro wig and a chinaman's hat - thanks for your service re tax dollars sameaswas.
sameaswas wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:Ummmm
its been revealed jacinta has billed Australian taxpayers $76000 for business class flights ;)
- is she truly representing the fnp, or just being another political snout in the trough good for nothing leach ?
Looking out for which people ;)
$370billion + $100mill from business council of oz + $34billion per annum for fnp beaurocracy's
land councils allocateing govt monies willynilly, all of em cronies..mates of marcia and co.
no accountability, secrecy.i saw a video of ken bloody oath ystrday, he said "34billion dollrs a year on fnp's and they want a voice!"..."it's not a voice they need it's a fuckin audit they need!!....hahaha he cracked up laughing, me too.
34 billion dollars a year ? How come a large percentage are living in squalor ?
I’m cracking up laughing at sameaswas spelling ability ;)
southernraw wrote:Interestingly most of the younger crew around here are all for yes.
Most older crew are hard no's.
I wonder if crew who have kids of voting age would b willing to share on here if their kids are voting y or n.
I’ve got three adult kids who went to school with a lot of Aboriginal students. They told me they are voting yes, even before I told them my position on the issue. My eldest daughter and her boyfriend are currently managing a pub in a small town in the Riverina district (a long way from home!); she said most of the clientele are old farmers who vehemently oppose The Voice, some fearing that their land will get taken away from them one day!
Many of my colleagues are Aboriginal elders who are definitely voting yes. Most older crew (50+) who I surf with every morning are also voting yes.
Some of my older, city-dwelling relatives are voting no, which doesn’t surprise me because they are generally very conservative with very little, if any, experience or understanding of Aboriginal people.
overthefalls wrote:southernraw wrote:Interestingly most of the younger crew around here are all for yes.
Most older crew are hard no's.
I wonder if crew who have kids of voting age would b willing to share on here if their kids are voting y or n.I’ve got three adult kids who went to school with a lot of Aboriginal students. They told me they are voting yes, even before I told them my position on the issue. My eldest daughter and her boyfriend are currently managing a pub in a small town in the Riverina district (a long way from home!); she said most of the clientele are old farmers who vehemently oppose The Voice, some fearing that their land will get taken away from them one day!
Many of my colleagues are Aboriginal elders who are definitely voting yes. Most older crew (50+) who I surf with every morning are also voting yes.
Some of my older, city-dwelling relatives are voting no, which doesn’t surprise me because they are generally very conservative with very little, if any, experience or understanding of Aboriginal people.
Thanks OTF. That's some extremely heartening reading in the current climate of fearmongering.
Much appreciated you sharing that.
@sameaswas , “ If it is true (and it is not) that there is $30billion dollars disbursed by the Government to 800,000 Indigenous people, then why would we choose to live in squalor? “ https://theshot.net.au/general-news/what-if-the-referendum-was-about-you/
southernraw wrote:Interestingly most of the younger crew around here are all for yes.
Most older crew are hard no's.
I wonder if crew who have kids of voting age would b willing to share on here if their kids are voting y or n.
It's no surprise at all we were all young and naive, i use to vote for the Greens, it comes down to a few things, lack of life experience and understanding of life and the fact the brain doesn't fully develop until the mid to late 20's.
Speaking of kids
Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x
The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices
Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.
Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.
Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.
The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.
Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??
Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28
References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28