Sprout, 1650939280
Crazy that the design is basically unchanged since WW2.
gingeryeti, 1650942938
Are we talking dildos or swim fins?
udo, 1650946529
https://shinfin.com/
Sprout, 1650946904
Whichever fits.
Craig, 1650954937
That looks like it would dig in very uncomfortably into the shin..
Shaun Hanson, 1650958376
I bought some shinfins there in the cupboard ...i found that farting gave me more forward projection ...anybody want em
Finnbob the terror, 1650958499
Has anyone tried them while surfing? They would be good for the blokes who kick madly while paddling for a wave.
.cylinders, 1650967791
As a keen bodysurfer, i appreciate this article quite a bit. A history of handplanes next?
bbbird, 1650968377
Fascinating fun fin facts.
A deeper dive with fins evolved into designs with rails, channels, combined flex & fixed foil fins....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK1o_SMvUIM
SingleFin95, 1650991940
Interesting read.
Have had a crack on a lid a couple times in shorey style waves - this article made me want to ride one more.
Good on you Swellnet for promoting a broader view of surfing culture.
More.
chook, 1651017065
you want to talk swim fins, do you? I never enter the water without a pair. either for kneeboarding or going for a swim. doesn't matter what the conditions are you can always get out the back and back in, and deal with the strongest rips when you've got a pair of fins on.
ok, so yeah, churchills are the classic. asymetrical, quite heavy. not the right fit for me. feel too heavy on the back of the kneeboard. but everybody should own at least one pair.
da fin...these were the fin du jour of a couple of years back. now used by Hawaiian lifesavers. symmetrical with a big blade. they have a closed foot well. sand and grit get caught in there, so you have to take them off and empty them once you get out the back and after every time you touch the bottom. they come in some great colour combos. but I worry my blue and yummy-yellow pair might attract sharks. they also feel too heavy on the back of the kneeboard.
PODS -- Australian company. these are my favourite fins. really good fit. they come in three styles the PF1, symmetrical -- their shortest blade. great for bodysurfing. PF2 -- symmetrical , a bit bigger than the 1s. these are my favourite, go to fins. and the pod PF3 -- asymmetrical, their biggest, stiffest blade. pretty good.
duck fins -- symmetrical, long and skinny blade. too much blade for me. too much flap, bend and lost energy.
people often go for a fin with the biggest blade. but I feel this is the wrong approach. big blades weigh more take more effort (you will get really sore muscles) and longer time to move back and forth (in surf you want to make very quick strokes) and bend and flap to much, thus losing energy. I reckon the pod twos are the perfect combo of length, weight and thrust.
anyway, it's bit flat today, so off to Nowra to buy some more fns...
Sprout, 1651019072
Thanks chook, some great info. In my limited experience I've found all the various designs for drainage still completely fail to remove the majority of sand and grit. I've got some DaFin ones now for bodybashing and the symmetrical design feels better on the knees, softer pocket is nice too.
MrBungle, 1651019536
Finding the perfect fitting/performing swim fin for me has been a never ending battle between comfort and performance. Over the last 2 years with all the swell we have been having I have been constantly nursing seal ulcers! A soft foot pocket and another width so the sides of your feet don't rub is essential if you are bodyboarding for hours every week.
stunet, 1651020632
Hadn't thought of Da Fins closed foot well. It would appear to be a flaw, yet DF have been my go to fins for a number of years, and I mostly use them at a gritty beach, yet haven't had an issue with particles getting caught inside - not more than any other fin anyway.
gingeryeti, 1651021440
Double down and go shinfins and foot fins. Out paddle everyone.
MartinNow, 1651024385
Bought my first pair of Churchills in, the green ones, as a kneelo in the mid 70s. They came with a sticker of a green duck wearing a pair. The softness of the foot pocket was a joy after the hard blue ones I had worn until then.
I got into standing on my kneeboard in them on ordinary days. When I did I couldn't resist the urge to say "quack quack" as I rode along.
I started riding stand all of the time so ditched the Churchills but now often use the kneelo take off to get deep or make late drops as I become more decrepit and slower - pop up on the first top turn all going well.
StormyAndBo, 1651034709
Interestingly, the modern swimfin, (and yes, this includes most of the Malaysian mould popouts) has slavishly followed a design fallacy that prioritises a stiffer blade and softer foot pocket. The idea is that the stiff blade provides the power and the softer foot pocket provides the comfort. This is, in fact, total horseshit. The stiffer blade requires more effort to move against the water, and offers less recoil through the tip(which translates as propulsion) The softer pocket merely loads all of this up on the ankle, causing fatigue and calf cramps.
Think the fins of fish, the wings and feathers of birds, even any vaguely responsive surfboard fin. The flex tapers toward the end, not the other way round. If you have an hour and want to see a genius rant, ask Greenough about his thoughts on the modern swimfin. Its actually gone backwards in design functionality in the past 25 years.
When I ask the guys who make 'em why, they simply say its what the market wants, all based on a couple of simple, but erroneous, assumptions. It's the functional equivalent of taking the template of the modern surfboard but giving it the flex of a pool noodle.
Gibbsy
The best current design is the Kpaloa fin out of Brazil IMO, but no one has got all the elements right
chook, 1651036992
some good pints there, stormy. I think that explains why I don't like the bigger bladed fins -- they just amplify the problems you mention. whereas the pods are shorter and softer blade.
I'll see if i can get a pair of the Kpaloas in oz.
dandob, 1651041050
Yer lots of rabbit holes to go down. I thought it pertinent for this article to just follow the churchies lineage. What do you think about V1 vipers?
udo, 1651042792
https://www.dafin.com/pages/about
Ray Shirlaw, 1651053062
Churchill style fins actually work better if worn upside down&back to front,they provide more thrust & don't tire your foot out as quickly. Not sure of any hydrodynamic disadvantage but on a 42 inch square piece of sponge, who would notice?
R00ney, 1651103239
Have been wearing Duckfeet for years for the air mattress.
Have found them more comfortable than most.
Agree with stormyandbo 100%...that flex is essential.
Vipers yellow dot 7 I found to be too big and boxy and bloody heavy. Would try the softer version if I could find a pair. Pink dot?
I never got on with Da Fins. The wide blade caused issues for me, touching at the tip on occasions. Body surf mates swear by them.
Have a pair of UDT's. Wore 'em once, nearly broke my ankles. Might trim those down Greenough style and see how they go.
I always wear socks 1.5-2mm.
Keen to try DMC and Yuccas.
Anyone had any experience?
Craig, 1651105740
Max Dodshon using his body profile and fin as an edge.
He's got this nailed at the local. Also how's his outside leg.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/1eC0IGK.jpg[/img]
yvdreh, 1651106281
Great write up. Such a shame that the new churchies suck so much, nothing has come close since they changed the rubber.
Sprout, 1651108590
Sick. Great control and way of holding to the wave face rather than going too fast/straight for a lip to the head or air dropping to oblivion on steeper waves.
StormyAndBo, 1651112620
I had pod 3's, a lot of thought went into them from Shane, but I found them a little heavy. Shaved the ridges down the edges right back(about 10-12mm) and weight and flex improved dramatically
StormyAndBo, 1651112800
Yuccas look quite good, not a fan of the DMC's at all. duck feet(and assuming udt's)work really well with the blade trimmed back shorter, to match the surface-level kickstroke.
garry-weed, 1651117040
Mat fins?
dawnperiscope, 1651118285
I've always thought the Churchill/dolphin tale analogy is a nice marketing image with not much merit when it comes to propulsion. Who kicks like a dolphin? not many, if any.
But I've never thought too much about their function on a wave, until now. Can see how the longer "rail" on the outside of the Churchill could make them the fin of choice.
I wonder if a twisted symmetrical design would allow the long rail on the outside and keep the inside above the water when your on a wave, but also be better for kicking on the way back out.
Thanks for article and photo, well illustrated.
the-u-turn, 1651123888
What a great article, thanks, Dan.
We all learn a bit from history and I didn't know about Benny Franklin (well put, too, Dan).
The Bodyboarder & Bodysurfer have very different needs, so it's horses for courses. I do think the Churchill's are good on the foam, but not so much without it. I'm a fan of Da Fin's. They work well and if they're good enough for Mark Cunningham, they're good enough for me.
dandob, 1651125423
Yer that's what's known as " scooping" in boogin' lingo.
simba, 1651126099
Scott Dillion told me he had a lot to do with designing DA Fins
R00ney, 1651126730
DMC's too soft stormy?
Yuccas last time I checked, were something like $350-400 landed in Oz with the $ and shipping, hence I sat back.
R00ney, 1651126917
Jebus, that'd be tearin' me a new one...or tearin' something.
andrew-pitt, 1651358479
Fantastic article Dan, great bit of history and design evolution.
Do a bit of body surfing myself. Used Churchills for years, but the foot cramps were killer and ended many a session. A couple of kneelo's, Big Pete and Terry Day got me into a pair of DMC Fins. Best thing ever. They look nothing like a fish or dolphin anatomy, more like the wings of a 1963 Valiant. But the fit, comfort and propulsion i find superior.
surfing with a spoon, 1651372429
Got a kick out of the Ben Frano reference.
The PS2 Hydros are my fin of choice with the highly flexible silicon rather than the harder rubber of the Duck Feet or Churchill's.
spenda, 1651550042
Finding perfect fin is a very personal thing.
Everyone has different feet, leg strength vs leg length , kicking style etc.
I love my duck feet yet find da fins and some other fins which others rave about to be way underpowered for me.
Best advice is to try lots of different lengths and shapes and see what works best for you.
Silly Billy, 1651551723
Not all feet are the same shape so fixed foot moulds are problematic. Big toe jamb has been overcome by some fin brands. Hard to find a combination of (enough) fin rigidity, lightness, off the mark propulsion and robustness.
Silly Billy, 1651552404
I bought recently the DMC Elite Max with the flexi edges and they need more rigidity down the middle for mine as they yield too much on the fin stroke. Toe relief/drainage needs to be on the top of the foot mould too.
Silly Billy, 1651552704
All that wave energy so close, what a rush. "air dropping to oblivion" ahhh, :).
Silly Billy, 1651553351
Bought DMC Elite Max recently and they have this flexible, spreading fin edges that flare out on the down kick. Propulsion is fair but not off the mark speed that I require mainly due to the fin being too flexible length wise. The flexibility allows for longer water time because of less water resistance on the down stroke. The toe relief/drainage needs to be on top of the foot mould for more comfort. These fins are excellent for ocean and pool swim training. Need that rigidity length wise for surfing though.
Silly Billy, 1651554022
I use 2mm neoprene booties and silicon toe caps.
R00ney, 1651554370
Waiting on some Kpaloa Tritons, hopefully end of week. Shipping from Oz I think.
The annoying thing I found was that almost every other fin website shows the dimensions of their models.
Couldn't find a single measurement on the Kpaloas.
Womble123, 1651556178
Yucca's are epic mate. hard to get here. We did a large order from the US and had them shipped (30-40 pairs) and got a great price from him. I like the supersoft ones but the stiffer versions also great. You can get wetsuit material to pad the pocket and line the heel strap which prevents most rub. DO NOTE the sizing is different from most other brands so trying some on before buying is ideal.
R00ney, 1651557226
Got any left Womble?
Womble123, 1651557560
Sorry mate. They were all ordered specifically for individuals. I can ask if anyone wants to sell a pair on - some found the fit a bit iffy? What size do you wear in Dafin and that will help.
R00ney, 1651559375
Yeah cool.
Can't remember my DaFin size, gave em away, didn't like them at all. I'm Gunna say xl as that's what I wear in duck feet. Just ordered some Kpaloas in xl. I always wear at least 1.5mm socks
Pretty sure I was looking at xl in Yuccas as well when I first touched base with them. I'd definitely be in if you can source a pair.
Cheers
John Johnson, 1651600981
Some history about Churchills...
After World War II, Owen Churchill and my father approached Willard Voit and secured a 10-year contract to mass produce Churchill Swim Fins and other aquatic products. That agreement had an obvious impact on the popularity of recreational swimming (bodysurfing) and free diving.
Up until that time, all of the fins Owen produced had been black. My father developed a formula that would enable adding color to cured natural gum rubber without increasing its density. That's how Churchill Swim Fins became their signature green color and could still float.
While Owen and my father had become great friends, by the end of the term of the Voit contract, their relationship with Willard Voit had deteriorated to the point that they both opted to not renew it. Owen took possession of the Swim Fin moulds and my father went into another business.
A few years later, as my older brother and I became beach lifeguards in Los Angeles, we convinced our father to get the moulds from Owen, build a couple of presses, and start making the fins again on a smaller scale so we could make them available to our fellow lifeguards. We kept this small enterprise going, even after our father had died in a plane crash in 1966. We made the fins ourselves and sold them for $6 a pair, mostly to other lifeguards.
In 1973, our younger brother, Martin, decided to turn it into a real business, expanding production and actively marketing the fins to retailers for the first time since 1956. During that time, it was Martin who came up with the blue & gold Makapu fins and "Stiff Blade" Churchills.
Over the next 6 years, the business blossomed, with retailers from around the world ordering fins. This attracted the interest of Kransco, which owned Morey Boogie and Hobie at the time. In 1978, the family agreed to Kransco's acquisition offer.
Since that time, the formula for the material used in manufacturing the fins has changed. I still have my green pair, as well as a pair of 3-color Churchills our father produced for the International Free Diving Championships in Mexico in 1952.
Sprout, 1651615491
Brilliant, thanks for sharing.
R00ney, 1651637025
Great background, John
krusher74, 1651778687
we kick with one leg at a time, so asymmetrical fin makes no sense, not half a dolphin tail. Asymmetrical fins have always twisted my leg and given me sore knees, I use symmetrical mike stewart vipers
krusher74, 1651778896
After near 30years bodyboarding Mike stewart MS vipers in the softer orange have all the elements correct for me. toobz fin are also soft tip
bgreen, 1651784563
I'll give them a go if you don't want them.
bgreen, 1651786001
I agree that swim fins are really an individual choice. I've tried lots of different types and still prefer the Churchill blue and yellow style, but the latest ones are a weird fit. I tried 3 different ML pairs (the same size I've worn for years) and could only get one pair onto my feet. They soften over time, but it's a real effort in the early days. An advantage of symmetrical fins is that you can travel with 3, one as a spare, instead of having to carry 2 pairs. Kpaloa and Yucca are fins I haven't tried but sound interesting. I once had to try dive fins when I lost my fins on a surf trip - they were fun. I wouldn't mind trying a pair again. No one has mentioned Pride fins. If you like a Churchill style fin, they are not too bad.
Shaun Hanson, 1651786730
Where are you bgreen ..im on the mid north coast ..happy for ya to have em
bgreen, 1651787871
Brisbane, though I get down Ballina way fairly often. I can send you postage. E-mail ne on bgreen@dyson.brisnet.org.au
tango, 1651839781
I used these a long time ago for swim training and tried to use them bodysurfing. They were great for swim training and really even out your kicking with a unique movement and didn't dig into the shins at all. In the surf they'd help get you in a bit but once going they were hopeless, as you'd expect.