zenagain, 1417747411

Interesting article. I'm on the side of knowing very little about hydrodynamics, I really just go with what feels right for me. I've had some magic boards and quite a few pigs over the years.

I wonder if anyone has ever reversed the fin set up on a McKee quad? Kind of like a faux-twinzer? Be fun to see how that went.

zenagain, 1417748196

PS. Magret de canard rôti-

Mmmmmmm!

memlasurf, 1417751090

Another great article on design Stu. Love this stuff can never get enough of it. Always enjoyed different boards and have a 5'10" twinnie and 5'2" pier pony looking thing, a 6.0 I cut the back off and reset the fins further up (square back no nose I call it) and few other rodents. All good fun and once I get a bit of debt under control I will get one of these.

stunet, 1417751702

Cheers Memla, was fun to write this one. It also got me pretty keen to try one again. The Twinzer I used in the breakout photo on the homepage is actually my board. I rode a few Pottz' Twinzers in the early-90s and got my normal shaper to have a shot at one. He got the back end right, you can see that in the photo, but the front end owes more to Webber banana boards which were popular at the time. Unfortunately the two ends don't go very well together!

Always loved the feeling of Twinzers though. Might see if I can get him to do another one with low rocker and full nose.

PS: Just realised I've been using the same shaper for over 20 years!

griz, 1417752343

Little know fact....Peter Ware , Dale Ponsford & Dave Parkes of Friar Tuck kneeboards were producing the"Twinzer" fin configuration a least 10 years ( late 70's) previous to this " break through " design. Mostly using adjustable fin boxes to dial them in. Strangely with the same channel set up too.
Even mixing them up with reverse curve " ski tails " thanks to Rodney Ball influence .
An unheralded melting pot of original ideas and influence were born between these guys.

skatement, 1417773044

I really like my twinzer plus one.
Although mark made mine with the double step in the tail.
Prey for waves....

Ellen's clam, 1417773594

Pretty popular on the surfermag forums.

I've played withe the setup, but yet to get it going right. Very very fast though

indo-dreaming, 1417812312

So is the actual fin plug set up different on a proper twinzer to say a standard wide tail quad? (doesn't look like it is)

Ive got to say I've never taken much interest in this fin set up, but this article has made me curious to give them go.

PS. Also love these board design articles.

Damothediver, 1417814281

If the plugs are more or less in the same spot as a quad could you get similar effect by simply switching the larger front with the smaller rears??

stunet, 1417814540

Yeah, it's very different ID. There are no rear fins on a Twinzer. The front fins sit in the same place as a standard twinny, with the small fins (canards) even further in front and closer to the rails. Also, the front fins are usually larger in area than those used on a quad.

If you're not interested in the twin fin feel then Twinzers aren't for you. However, if you like the speed and skatey-ness of twins then you'll love 'em; you get the loose back end feel with just a bit more bite.

pointy, 1417850029

I had one of parkesy's with the ski tail.

It was an OK board but I didn't like the hard rails up the front end of it

wingnut2443, 1417852807

" ... caused me to think how little surfers know about board design – and I include myself in that assessment. We may understand what particular design features do – pintails hold a line, twin fins are skatey, thrusters more stable – but we don't necessarily understand why they work the way they do. I'm talking about the theory of board design here. The physics of waterflow over fibreglass that makes design features – pintails, twin fins, thrusters, etc. - work in their own peculiar way. And in the case of fins, the more there are on a board the harder it is to grasp the relationship between them and so understand why the board behaves the way it does ..."

For me, it's a mind fuck and vertical learning curve, but I love it!.

It's part the reason why I started the FFW Surfboard journey and log my ramblings.

I've had this thought for a while, so throw it in here ... take a thruster set up, use more upright fins and a tad more fin cant for the front (side) fins, add canards. Align the inside edge of the front fins to a bonzer type channel. Cannard as a bonzer type fin, or nubster type fin (maybe a tad bigger) ... put some concave through the fins, so the whole lot sits inside a concave instead of vee like the usual bonzer ...

Impact? How would it go?

It would be a refined C5 (see more about Rusty's C5 here: http://us.rusty.com/us/blog/tag/c5/ )

Thoughts?

EDIT - when I say more upright front (side) fins, I'm thining say k2.1's or the shapers AP02's ... could go the more raked fins like on the C5, but I'm thinking more upright with better foil options will help to improve the overall feel.

udo, 1417860859

Wingnut, going off track of twinzers here but Paul Neilson - encyclopedia of surfing has a short vid of Paul surfing a single fin with 2 almost keel looking front fins added with heaps of cant { 8 seconds] ,very early 70s at a guess...you seen the clip ....Blindboy or brutus any clues on what year ? Mex Sumpter film it I think.

velocityjohnno, 1417861129

Great article Stu, loved the history of the design write up. I remember talking with a local shaper about them in the mid 90's - never got further than that. The ones Pottz used incorporated a step deck in the tail, no?

singkenken, 1418000056

@ Pointy - Parkesey's boards were awesome, I had a Squashtail double channel with the twinzer setup, and the thing fairly flew. Turn on a dime (good for 360's), enough drive for a Kenworth truck, and when you hit the sweet spot in the rocker it would trim like a mini mal. One of the best pre-thruster boards I ever had !!. Mine had kinda 60/40rails forward of the mid-point (reasonably soft).

le-renard, 1418033265

I can’t really see those acting as ‘canards’…Really can’t compare fighter design to surfboards so hastily, the canards on the Typhoon for example are linked to the performance peculiarities of it's delta-wing configuration. They are also (super) computer controlled...not static.

I see these dirtying rather than increasing the flow to the lifting surface of the main fin...(the only way they would 'increase foil efficiency.') Not worth their frontal area drag penalty...

I would suggest the increased drive felt is a function of the more-rearward positioning of the main fins more so than any efficiency of the fore-finlets.

'Trial and error' is still very much used in even the most advanced industries when complex fluid-dynamics are concerned.

the-roller, 1418061248

The latest from Hal's understudy, Dan Woods.

The best complement a student can give to their teacher is to outdo 'em. Yew!

http://iconosquare.com/tag/sikxzer

steen, 1418173747

Spot on Griz,
Stu you should have a chat with Peter Ware. Legend of the Friar Tuck label. He had this set up running in all his boards a good ten years earlier. He is a wealth of information, get on touch with him. I will send you a facebook link if you want?

steen, 1418175712

stunet, 1418194356

Yeah, been looking at some of those fin configs. So different to what was under the hood of surfboards at the same time. Appreciate the offer of a hook up, Steen, maybe in the new year?

caml, 1418212850

So is le renard correct that the bigger fins are set further back ? Thats not what was explained earlier by stu

stunet, 1418254068

The fins are set in the same position as standard twinnies - at least they're in the same position as the twins in my collection. That puts them a bit further back than standard thrusters but nothing out of the ordinary.

I'd also like to add that Le Renard has twisted my words: the front fins ARE canards. Canards aren't defined by computers, no matter how super, or by any other advanced technology aspect. It is simply a forewing - or in this case, a forefin - that moves through the water before the main fin. I wasn't trying to compare performance but configuration.

caml, 1418257415

By the looks of the pics they are further back than a twinny . Im guessing thats how it works its quite obvious if u think about it

Tecumseh Respect to All, 1589125175

Best boards I ever had, and I still have two of them.
I rode these in the 90s for about 6 straight years. Must be made with precision, or they will be off---Just feel wrong.
Made correctly, they are the most lively, positive boards I've ever been on!

udo, 1589149989

The Shittake by Panda surfboards - utube

stunet, 1589151139

Just don't get the concept of a long fish or a long twinzer. The long rail line nullifies the thing those boards do so well.

david 24, 1589151760

Murray Bourton hashad a Twinza in his board range for the last few years. He swears by them. Also has some funky looking fins on the design. Check it out if you have the time Stu

Finnbob the terror, 1616397560

Twinzers

udo, 1619050097

https://www.instagram.com/p/CM6pUXzHDSu/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CCGH5NunOqJ/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCGH5NunOqJ/
Lots of people not liking there Long Twins- maybe twinzer it ?

udo, 1619050271

https://www.instagram.com/p/CK73yennJvO/

backyard, 1630479049

I like your questioning of the Koolaid.

Finnbob the terror, 1654593767

Not sure why, but to me, it seems logical that fin placement should be close to the rail and be larger at the back of the board, and progressively get smaller towards the front of the board, twinzer style. Opposite to the quad and nothing like a thruster.

udo, 1654594897

Duo Twinzer option
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cdv9MJbpn8g/

udo, 1654595777

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPRf2g4n1v-/

udo, 1720094786

Twinzer Guns . . .
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8lSkgqRaty/
https://youtu.be/Etv7nCAE_gw?si=Ekp5jbuYiYf-OUyK

udo, 1721295015

https://youtu.be/KCmtI9g28XA?si=FhgwdDBZjNO5Pscc

Spuddups, 1721330315

Such a simple thing to do. I have about half a dozen quads and I've always been meaning to try it.

Spuddups, 1721330800

The thruster with canards could be called a Twuster.

thermalben, 1721336524

Shapers already have a series of fins called the Twuster (I've got a set and they're unreal).

https://shapers.com.au/twuster-twin-fin-set-seafoam/

Spuddups, 1721340226

Here's me thinking I'd thought of something original. I was walking round the house all afternoon talking like Woody Woodpecker. Back to the drawing board haha!

lostdoggy, 1721345013

MC used the term too.

https://www.mauricecole.com/twuster

udo, 1721346139

All Boards are Personally Hand Shaped by Maurice.......
Hand Finished i Think .

udo, 1732679720

https://youtu.be/K97Nf9HIA6k?si=PpcZReB0B-1Hg5p7