Vids other than surfing thread (cool doccos, movies etc)

blackers wrote:

AndyM wrote:

This is the problem with these discussions Indo, terms such as liberal and conservative have been so distorted that it's an almost pointless conversation.
Using accepted definitions, conservatives are those that tend to favour institutions and practices that guarantee stability and have evolved gradually - I'm not really sure where they stand on censorship/free speech.
Suffice to say that saying that those who have issues with cancel culture are conservative is quite off the mark.
Just look at those who signed the Harpers Letter.
Liberals on the other hand, by definition, believe in the rights of the individual, liberty, political equality and equality before the law.
So true liberals, as opposed to the American bastardisation of the term, would be against self-censorship in the media and arts and would be in favour of individuals expressing themselves, although freedom of speech is not absolute.
After all, one can believe uncompromising in freedom of expression but not in any duty to "gratuitously offend".
As I've said a few times before, supporting censorship or being in favour of cancelling people is essentially illiberal and in my opinion regressive, notwithstanding issues around libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, incitement, hate speech and the like.

Plenty of good points there Andy.
However, I am interested to know how much cancelling actually occurs. Watching the Nick G interview above, there was not much evidence, a few unattributed "they won't let you make it" lines and that was it. In fact he couldn't resist taking a dig at Mark Mitchell's Con the Fruiterer for not being authentic. Sounds pretty much like what the anti cancel crew complain about. Perhaps his struggle in getting the film made was more due to the fact that the joke is dated and not that funny? Again, a fairly common complaint by aging performers, blame it on being cancelled rather than accepting their product is past its use by date. It's not cancellation, it's natural selection and changing taste. Rodney Rude anyone?

Cancel culture is extremerely well documented in all kinds of areas and you would expect the cases we hear about are actually the tip of the iceberg, most cases from everyday people we would never hear about and much of it as spoken about in this interview is just a lack of support of opportunity, If Nick G was a young comedian just getting a start he could never do Wogs out of Work today, which in my mind is really important owning a word or attitude and taking this piss of one self is a great way to combat something

Even Con the fruiterer and Comedy company stuff wouldn't get a pass these days, same deal with movies, same deal with music, maybe even other art.

Last year even Danzing said

“People don’t understand, because everything’s so cancel-culture, woke bullshit nowadays, but you could never have the punk explosion nowadays, because of cancel culture and woke bullshit,” Danzig explained when asked for further clarification. “You could never have it. It would never have happened. We’re lucky it happened when it did, because it’ll never happen again. You won’t have any of those kinds of bands ever again. Everyone’s so uptight and P.C., it’s just like, ‘OK, whatever.'”

https://www.spin.com/2021/04/glenn-danzig-cancel-culture/#:~:text=%E2%80...'t%20understand%2C,It%20would%20never%20have%20happened.

Rodney Rude & Kevin Bloody Wilson to me always seemed really tacky even as a kid i thought that, but if people find it funny, why not.

Even progressive type comedians like Bill Hicks would be canceled these days.

It must be so hard to be a comedian these days and make comedy, to me comedy should push boundaries and even offend, i not sure if it happens in Aust but overseas some comedy clubs even screen comedians content or make them sign agreements on what things or even topics they can and can't say that often leaves them with very little green light topics.

It's like many things, it starts as good will and true progression but then swings too far and becomes the opposite, heavy censorship in comedy isn't good for anyone, if it's funny it's funny and everyone knows the context of things, for instance if the punch line of a joke is knocking off the mother inlay or something crazy, we all know he doesn't really want to murder his mother inlay, because we know the context of things and know its a joke.

AndyM wrote:

This is the problem with these discussions Indo, terms such as liberal and conservative have been so distorted that it's an almost pointless conversation.
Using accepted definitions, conservatives are those that tend to favour institutions and practices that guarantee stability and have evolved gradually - I'm not really sure where they stand on censorship/free speech.
Suffice to say that saying that those who have issues with cancel culture are conservative is quite off the mark.
Just look at those who signed the Harpers Letter.
Liberals on the other hand, by definition, believe in the rights of the individual, liberty, political equality and equality before the law.
So true liberals, as opposed to the American bastardisation of the term, would be against self-censorship in the media and arts and would be in favour of individuals expressing themselves, although freedom of speech is not absolute.
After all, one can believe uncompromising in freedom of expression but not in any duty to "gratuitously offend".
As I've said a few times before, supporting censorship or being in favour of cancelling people is essentially illiberal and in my opinion regressive, notwithstanding issues around libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, incitement, hate speech and the like.

I agree with a lot of this i don't know if the terms have been distorted so much, more that the groups and views have evolved and expanded or there is so many different types of conservatism or progressivism each word is now an umbrella term for a larger group.

In some senses to me in many areas a modern conservative like myself often has more in common with a traditional progressive, you see this effect here where my views on many issues often dont differ much from views of say Sypkan or Blowin and you would have noticed Blowin calling others fake left implying he is the real left and hasn't changed, and its kind of true.

To me there has been a clear flip. (or maybe this is the horse shoe theory in effect)

Traditionally speaking conservatives especially religious based were the ones claiming to be offended and wanting to censor and cancel especially in regard to arts, visual, comedy, movies, music

In many countries like say Indonesia this is still the case but in the west while there is still this element to a small degree they are a minority and no longer hold much power, while crazy enough it's so called progressives who are the ones being offended and wanting censorship and cancelling and hold more power.

I get not all progressives are like this but it's still the reality, comedians aren't self censoring because of conservatives they are self censoring because of so called progressives.

And its a new type of conservative that is saying, wait a minute just because you dont like what is said or somehow feel offended that's your problem, i should have the right to express myself or be exposed to this or that (and yes i agree "notwithstanding issues around libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, incitement, hate speech and the like".)