FIN KNOWLEDGE

bishmann's picture
bishmann started the topic in Monday, 17 Nov 2014 at 5:03pm

Hi All ,
after a bit of your vast wisdom here , got myself a tiny 5'8 fish for small mushy waves , in 78 kgs and currently have fcs g'3 s in it but find them to lack drive and speed anyone have any suggestions on what would be more suitable fins for speed / drive in small waves , old school fcs plugs in the board tri fin .
help would be greatly appreciated .

bish

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udo Wednesday, 28 Dec 2022 at 9:18pm

From Murray - The Twinzaa :
One important feature of the Twinzaa is the rear boxes that allow almost 1” of movement so as to allow each surfer to customize the feel and sweet spot by clustering up or back with the rears. I have added a little more carbon support over the rear boxes to give more base strength for the large fin that needs to be there.

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udo Tuesday, 3 Jan 2023 at 7:28am
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udo Wednesday, 4 Jan 2023 at 2:15pm
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udo Saturday, 7 Jan 2023 at 8:01pm

From an old Swaylocks post- A Fin box that takes FCS and Futures
https://www.swaylocks.com/forum/45487/new-multi-fin-base-box#comment-406745

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dastasha Saturday, 7 Jan 2023 at 9:16pm

That might be worth a try on an old board - drilling through the futures base and fixing some dual tabs in with grub screws. Perhaps using some shims to keep the tabs tight in the futures base.
Allows for a fair bit of fore and aft adjustment.

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udo Saturday, 7 Jan 2023 at 9:25pm

Wont work ..No Cant - Futures Cant is built into Fins - Fcs Cant is in the Plugs

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Clam Monday, 30 Jan 2023 at 10:43pm

does kai have a windsurfing fin box sponsor ?

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udo Wednesday, 1 Feb 2023 at 4:55pm
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udo Wednesday, 1 Feb 2023 at 5:08pm
etarip's picture
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etarip Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 7:47am

Anyone got feedback on the needsessential futures style fins? Look like a good price.

https://needessentials.com/collections/fins/products/thruster-fins

mugofsunshine's picture
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mugofsunshine Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 12:34pm

I've got a pair of the keels and a set of the twin+trailer. Quality is excellent. No issues with them at all

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blackers Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 1:21pm
mugofsunshine wrote:

I've got a pair of the keels and a set of the twin+trailer. Quality is excellent. No issues with them at all

Yup, solid. Have both types of their keels (upright and trad) and a thruster set. Quality glass layup, good finish.

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etarip Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 6:02pm

Thanks - @Mugs, @blackers

Think I’ll pull the trigger on a thruster set.

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udo Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 7:53pm

Venice Lodge Surfboards had Solid Glass Keels in Futures for $60
https://www.venicelodgesurfboards.com/products

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lostdoggy Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 8:13pm

Not so much futures all glass thrusters, but you can get really good deals for quality fins at eveley surf website in the sale section.

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udo Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 8:35pm

Laura Enever mentioned today her Outer Reef session she lost a FCS 2 click in Fin on her 10'0 because she forgot to use Grub Screws...

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lostdoggy Tuesday, 14 Feb 2023 at 8:39pm

Most 10’0 guns are futures for a reason.

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etarip Wednesday, 15 Feb 2023 at 7:19am

Two occasions I’ve lost an FCS2 fin. Always use the rear grub screw now.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 18 Feb 2023 at 1:54pm

Rest day after 4 in a row in small, joy shaped little waves. Enjoying testing new fins, they are working mint.

udo asked:

"V J tells us about your Fins over at Fin Knowledge"

OK this set is a 2+1 setup - sides are about GX size and the rear is a 6" fin. I find I use this setup in midlengths and the shortboards I use that I have evolved out of the singles I learned on (think: wing swallows with 2+1, single to double concaves, modern rails and dome deck. Next bit to update is modernise the rocker/foil, but it must be stressed the basic rocker works well and has for years)

Designed fins on CAD and spent lots of time working through/learning about the foil and what I wanted it to do. 3209, if that makes any sense though I customed the curve of the foil, and not a hard edge on the inside of the side fins, or a reverse foil or anything: in fact a bit of what traditional glass thruster fins had in the 80s - boards I've surfed of this era I find to have fantastic grip, you can take off on anything and make it. The rear fin comes a bit similar to a Dolphin 6" but I've gone for a broader base for drive, the tip is too thin I reckon and 0012, though with my own curve in the foil. Thickness of fins, I only had 8.5-9.35mm of glass to play with, so managed to machine the whole job (max 9.15mm) out of it, bit of a miracle it turned out. In future, I could play with thicknesses, thicker ones for smaller/less powerful waves. You see so many crew get tiny thin sharp 7mm fins and wonder why they are cavitating out and slipping on takeoff - cheaper for mass manufacturers to only machine 7mm sheet!

Surfing with a wide tail mid length in 2ft+ waves: fast, fins don't seem to impede the speed of the hull when up and going down the line with momentum. Turning up toward the lip the side fins really work: it gets me there faster than my previous bought sets, so I reckon the foil is spot on and the fins highly efficient. I've heard NC call this ability to quickly go back up the face "Drive" but I always thought drive was the ability to really project great distance down the line off a bottom turn (let's call that 'projection' in that case)

Where it could improve? Thought I detected slip when cutting back and bouncing foam: guess off the rear fin being so thin? Flex occurs and hold is shed? Creating stall? I've spent a lot of time surfing 1967 style Australian vee bottom boards with those rad flexy singles, and can identify this as a similar feel to them going in/out of stall. So thicker tip on the rear fin.
Maybe my slip is the distance between front and rear fins? It's 3 1/2" which has worked for my previous 2+1 setups, but I reckon I could move this set to a greater distance and it'd hold. Paddled into a couple sideways/or surfing positioned almost side on in lip of a left and detected a little slip in the tail, so moving rear fin back is a goer.

Before this I did a thruster set and did the rear like a H2 - would ditch this as at higher turn angles the rear would shed water and it'd feel like you slipped out (reason for doing it was I thought more efficient)... Replaced with actual rear H2 and could replicate the slip in heavy turn, so it's the shape. Have replaced rear fin with a normal one with full raked tip area and look forward to testing that next. Suspect the sides will be really good (as they are the same as the 2+1 only bigger) and the normal rear fin will transform it.

It would be cool to post pics - udo how do you do this?

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udo Saturday, 18 Feb 2023 at 2:43pm

Thanks VJ- Great Read

For Pics : WestofthelakeWEDNESDAY, 27 JAN 2021 at 9:38PM
Try https://imgbb.com/

Jeeez Craig how the Fark are you match that with your C-Drives Rave
:-]]

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udo Sunday, 19 Feb 2023 at 7:28pm
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Craig Tuesday, 21 Feb 2023 at 9:33am

Scored a bargain thanks to Udo giving me a heads up.

$30 for these medium C-Drives.

I've had them for a while but took them for a first test drive on the tail end of last week's TC Gabs swell.

The surf was very weird, probably the weirdest Queensy I've surfed with tons of current/rip, random lumps and peaks to 3-5ft. A complete indiscernible mess so trying to figure out new fins was going to be a problem.

Everything felt weird for the first half to two thirds of the surf, but I could feel the drive on the steeper, bowlier peaks, it's just that they faded quickly into nothing.

Towards the end of the surf I started to get a feel for the fins and a couple of better waves. The main feeling was extra drive and speed, holding through carves on a steeper face. I got one left that ran into this big beautiful right bowl that I could really carve right into on the backside before going back to the right.

The next day was smaller and more to 3ft, a lot weaker. The fins were great on bowly, sucky sections but not great for trying to go through flatter sections, where they seemed to decelerate and need a bit of extra work.

On one hard cut back into the pocket, there was a surprise extra bit of drive and push when I was about to head back down the line which felt great, but it bucked me off with the unexpected squirt.

There's something different in these fins that feels really good, but I feel you need punchier, bowly or steeped face waves to make the most of them.

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Craig Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 7:35am

Udo, here's some images from John regarding his fins..

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udo Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 2:53pm

Thanks ..They look Good..
Have not seen anyone CNC a Fin with the Powerbase Base Flare...VJ ?

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I focus Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 3:38pm

Yeah they look great

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velocityjohnno Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 4:00pm

Thank you crew - udo, what is a powerbase base flare?

Is it like how the initial leading smaller fin in a classic twinzer was glassed in with rovings? Or something else? Possible to CNC a fin with this, but you would need thicker glass. You could CNC some thicc fins if you are into thicc

Thanks also to Ben and Craig for posting up, I tried imagebb and imgur but didn't feel comfortable with the t&C... promise in future I will only ask Swellnet to post up a pic on my behalf when it's important - and not often!

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udo Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 4:35pm

Poor description from me VJ..
@ 45 sec :


Obviously a Diff lay up for the Fin panel

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velocityjohnno Friday, 24 Feb 2023 at 4:44pm

Yeah check those out! I wonder if that would be an injection mould infused with glass to make them?

Middle pic above you can see the difference between the roughing run (looks like chunky squares) and the finish run - I used a 1/8" ball nose bit so you get this smooth transition between the bases/tabs and the fin surface. I suppose I could use a different type of bit to eliminate this.

What's everyone's opinion: are fins better with that curved base, like rovings, or with a sharp delineation between the board's bottom and the fin?

I would think the curved base would drag more (greater surface area) but be stronger?

I focus's picture
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I focus Saturday, 25 Feb 2023 at 12:24am

Hmmm recon those bases would create lift (not necessary a bad thing) if you sit the boxes down the fin will lay against the board neatly so no drag I leave a slight gap so not to punch though the glass.

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udo Saturday, 25 Feb 2023 at 6:38am

The Base is no different [ a touch bigger ? ] to whats made by the Rovings on a Glass on Fin
Lots of installed pics on the Soar Fins facey page - A pic of Tyler Wright using them with Fusion Boxes

I focus's picture
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I focus Saturday, 25 Feb 2023 at 5:32pm

Cheers Udo

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udo Saturday, 25 Feb 2023 at 5:38pm

Up the page is a link to pics of Powerbase Boxes ...ones with huge amount Adjustment look good

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I focus Sunday, 26 Feb 2023 at 10:11am

They look like they sit really flush

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silentp Sunday, 26 Feb 2023 at 7:27pm

Hi Craig, re- C drives, I've been using these for about 10 years in thruster and more recently twin and rate them highly, but as a thruster set up I just use a ' normal ' fin in the rear as I've found more so in smaller waves that you tend to get held up or bogged in turns with the C drive rear in, I do have the C drive trailer fin (which is much smaller) and this works great in a wider tailed old board I have with the big twins (firewire el fuego), haven't really tested this smaller fin in a normal thruster setup as I'm a bit of a twinny convert, but could be worth a try for you.

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Craig Monday, 27 Feb 2023 at 9:22am

Thanks Silentp.

Yeah Udo and others have said the same, might try that, put a little nubster in even.

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udo Tuesday, 28 Feb 2023 at 8:18am
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udo Thursday, 2 Mar 2023 at 2:12pm

Strengthening around Futures Boxes with Timber Strips that go almost thru to the Deck

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stunet Thursday, 2 Mar 2023 at 3:13pm

^^^ Interesting. Must be an adaptation from Simon's triple-stringer models where the side boxes butt up against the outside stringers. The boxes are toed in while the stringers run straight, so there's not as much contact as there is in the above arrangement.

Also wonder if it came from necessity. Those twin fin keels have a lot of surface area; can imagine them being ripped out under the feet of some surfers.

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Shane Luke Saturday, 11 Mar 2023 at 7:51pm
udo wrote:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpZKO6xS88k/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Co1aDLlyamQ/

These are my boards that I build. I've been a fin nerd for many years. I'm really impressed with the feel of the S-wings. A very dynamic design that follows the natural fin tip turbulence. Hence they turn on a dime when asked to yet have more drive and speed through drawn out turns due to the efficient use of the hyrodynamics of the water flow.

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I focus Sunday, 12 Mar 2023 at 12:09am

Hey Shane how much flex is there in the tips of those fins?

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udo Sunday, 12 Mar 2023 at 8:21am

Check out there Site
Different fin colours for Different amount of Flex.

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udo Monday, 13 Mar 2023 at 9:30am
I focus's picture
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I focus Monday, 13 Mar 2023 at 10:14am

Thanks Udo if I get time might knock a set up... never have time these days.

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Clam Tuesday, 14 Mar 2023 at 2:32pm
stunet wrote:

^^^ Interesting. Must be an adaptation from Simon's triple-stringer models where the side boxes butt up against the outside stringers. The boxes are toed in while the stringers run straight, so there's not as much contact as there is in the above arrangement.

Also wonder if it came from necessity. Those twin fin keels have a lot of surface area; can imagine them being ripped out under the feet of some surfers.

yeah stunet , most definitely out of necessity, channells cause weak areas, big fins with little support at the base , and only two of them