2022 Election

blindboy's picture
blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

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stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:27am
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

There’s no getting around the ugliness that decades of neoliberalism-from both parties- has cast into the stone of Australia’s future. The sooner we take our medicine and experience the necessary recession, the better it is for our country. Of course there will be people who suffer.

So despite explaining why one side of politics has to take the safe, slow, and unsexy path, you've still got absolutely nothing based in reality to solve the problem?

Make no mistake, what you just said is fantastical. It's the online equivalent of pasting up a Green Left bill poster in Newtown.

Feels good yeah?

Utter bollocks in real life. May as well be sci fi.

You can either propose solutions based on a three-year election cycle in a country that over a century has shown to be predominantly right-leaning, or you can shake your fist at the sky while gluing up another Socialism Now! poster outside the macrobiotic nut shop on King Street.

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:33am

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/digitalprinteditions/features

Example of the bullshit Labor is up against re stage 3 tax cuts. War on teachers, nurses blah blah blah ...

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andy-mac Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:45am

@GSCO
"Actually I'm getting more and more disillusioned by the day with the Labor party.

It seems that the Labor party I had in mind when I voted for them this time is the one from the 80s and 90s...

Unfortunately the current Labor party in power is just all a left progressive woke façade and charade so far, all caught up in the culture wars with no substance."

I think you may be being a bit harsh here. Agree with your sentiments, but really they as a Party have to tip toe through a minefield of misinformation and a whole media beast ready to rip apart any move e they make, hence their hesitancy.
My hope is they are waiting until maybe ICAC is up and running and LNP corruption is taking up headlines and they can start to implement some of their more controversial agendas such as dropping, modifying stage 3 tax. When they do you know the media are going to go bat shit crazy about election promises and all the poor aspirational voters who will miss out on their tax cut. Hopefully this story will be over shadowed with some LNP ministers looking at jail time....
But hey, I could be wrong.

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:02pm
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

gsco's picture
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gsco Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:36pm

yep andy-mac the alternative is responsible for many bad choices for Australia, particularly from this genuinely upsetting Institute of Public Affairs list linked the other day.

Regardless of the side of politics, the fallacy of privatising - or creating weird out, fragmented public-private provision models - of services like education, health and childcare is clearly displayed in the above quote from Richard Denniss where the public systems in the Nordic countries are so good that private providers don't really exist due to not being competitive.

In order to make private providers competitive, Australia has to first gut and let rot the public systems, as it's doing. A lot of progress has been made on this front in childcare, health, secondary education and vocational education. University education is a slightly slower moving ship.

Neoliberal adherents might argue that private providers in the end will evolve to provide a better, higher quality service and do so more efficiently, but:

1. This is a fallacy since if private providers could then they'd be competitive in the Nordic countries.

2. These services provide strong positive externalities to the nation which are not priced into their private provision.

3. Public-private provision of these services has serious inequality problems in terms of access and outcomes, resulting in only the very wealthy elite in society being able to access and afford high quality services.

So the current business model of decimating the public provision of these services in order to make private provision competitive:

- results in worse outcomes for society as a whole,

- does not improve the actual level and quality of the services over and above high quality public provision,

- further embeds inequality in society and engrains the wealth and privilege of the wealthy elite class, and

- creates business opportunities for the wealthy business class to set up private models of service provision and thus get even wealthier.

In the end it becomes a monetisation and transfer of the positive externalities of these services into the wealth and privilege of the ruling wealthy elite, while shafting the masses - i.e. we become like the US...

Not only that, we’re even paying for this to happen by our tax money going into subsidies for private providers.

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 12:43pm
gsco wrote:

yep andy-mac the alternative is responsible for many bad choices for Australia, particularly from this genuinely upsetting Institute of Public Affairs list linked the other day.

Regardless of the side of politics, the fallacy of privatising - or creating weird out, fragmented public-private provision models - of services like education, health and childcare is clearly displayed in the above quote from Richard Denniss where the public systems in the Nordic countries are so good that private providers don't really exist due to not being competitive.

In order to make private providers competitive, Australia has to first gut and let rot the public systems, as it's doing. A lot of progress has been made on this front in childcare, health, secondary education and vocational education. University education is a slightly slower moving ship.

Neoliberal adherents might argue that private providers in the end will evolve to provide a better, higher quality service and do so more efficiently, but:

1. This is a fallacy since if private providers could then they'd be competitive in the Nordic countries.

2. These services provide strong positive externalities to the nation which are not priced into their private provision.

3. Public-private provision of these services has serious inequality problems in terms of access and outcomes, resulting in only the very wealthy elite in society being able to access and afford high quality services.

So the current business model of decimating the public provision of these services in order to make private provision competitive:

- results in worse outcomes for society as a whole,

- the actual level and quality of the services is not improved over and above high quality public provision,

- further embeds inequality in society and engrains the wealth and privilege of the wealthy elite class, and

- creates business opportunities for the wealthy business class to set up private models of service provision and thus get even wealthier.

In the end it becomes a monetisation and transfer of the positive externalities of these services into the wealth and privilege of the ruling wealthy elite, while shafting the masses - i.e. we become like the US...

Not only that, we’re even paying for this to happen by our tax money going into subsidies for private providers.

I agree 100%!
Australia had the opportunity to be very wealthy (still are) egalitarian society with a very strong public service, health system, education etc.
As you mentioned years of neo- liberal governments have prevented this since 70's. If we took a different path we would have countries such as Norway looking up to us. Imagine our sovereign wealth fund if we had effectively taxed our resources since early 80's! Unfortunately the Murdoch media and powers that be made these policies sound like a communist plot, and the Australian people voted in the government they deserved... Cannot be fixed up in a term, if ever. 乁⁠(⁠ ⁠•⁠_⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠ㄏ
Big changes needed but I am not confident that is possible, but hopefully Labor can slowly change the direction a little. More funding to education and health would be a good start and get rid of the profit driven business model for essential services...

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sypkan Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 1:05pm

"What is the actual strategy for higher education in Australia? Does anyone have one? All sides of politics just have some high-level slogan like 'we'll make the education better, bla, bla'. But that's a wishlist, not a goal. When I look at the amount of money my wife and I spent on our uni degrees it makes me sick. It honestly does. Some nice words in those articles about having free education but is anyone even proposing that? I am more than happy to give them even more tax money if they commit to the goal of making education free so my kids don't have to go through what I had to go through. But on the other hand, looking at the current system, I don't trust them with a single cent, and I'll do whatever it takes to minimise my tax liability..."

spot on...

whilst Im advocating labor drop the tax cuts whole, I have little faith in what they'll do with that money...

andymac makes fair points about the inevitable media onslaught, however, labor wouldn't be so vulnerable to such a media onslaught if people had faith in what they'll actually do with the taxes

people have no faith in labor due to decades of neglect and outright bullshit with window dressing (what blowin is on about) and because of what seems to be labor's main priorities / agenda / diversions... ( what gsco is on about)

you can argue til the cows come home 'who's the better economic managers' - ...with selective statistics from both sides to prove the point...

but the reality is, the 'perception' is, labor wastes money and has some messed up priorities... (see olddog)

that 'perception' is not totally unfounded

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 1:22pm
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

Battleground Melbourne live at CPAC.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 1:24pm

Ok, I don't want to be bee too cynical. My kids go to a great public school and 2 were born in a public hospital. 1 was born in a private hospital and to be honest, that can't come close to the public hospital. The service I received in the public hospital is top class, only praise for everyone who works there. Also, all the emergencies I had to deal with were dealt with in a very good way. Private health coverage is terrible. Honestly, it looks like a fraud to me.

The current medical system turns to shit with the so-called 'electives'. It's not really elective if your hip is gone and you can't walk. My mother-in-law paid for private health coverage her whole life and then in aged pension, she couldn't afford to anymore. But this is when the health problems increase for people and all the benefits are gone. For her, both hips were gone and it proved impossible to get any info about the dates from the hospital. So, we ended up sending her overseas to do a double hip surgery. Operation + 5 weeks of hospital accommodation + everyday physio cost us $20k. Totally worth it, you can't get that service here.

On child care - Labor's plan looks much better than the current system. I really hope they put it into practice. Although I'm out of it now it is a must for this country to move forward.

Also, I have a good friend who lives in Sweden and I caught up with him a few times a couple of months ago. We talked about some details a fair bit and to be honest, Australia didn't sound too dissimilar to Sweden. The main difference is higher education which is crazy expensive here + terrible childcare system (there's more than this but these 2 were quite prominent). But also, when I told him how much we pay in council rates he nearly fell off the chair. He was shocked. Same as GST of 10%, theirs is 25%. But all in all, there are many similarities. This country needs to reinforce those similarities and move us forward. We are not in some deep, terrible hole as it's sometimes presented, there are things to be optimistic about.

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flollo Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 1:51pm
Supafreak wrote:
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

Battleground Melbourne live at CPAC.

Supa, did you actually watch the whole video? I can't handle it, that 1 min intro is already too much for me.

@DSDS some media created the perception that all Australians were collectively united against the repressive government. They created an image of all Australians being on the streets and being confronted by the police. This is what people overseas saw.

As you know this is false. An overwhelming majority of the population supported the measures and followed them. Only a small minority protested. Look at the popularity of Mark McGowan. If things were so terrible in Vic you would expect the current government to lose the upcoming election. However, they are probably going for a landslide win. These are the things that people overseas didn't see, all they saw were the snippets of confrontation between police and protestors.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 2:13pm
sypkan wrote:

"What is the actual strategy for higher education in Australia? Does anyone have one? All sides of politics just have some high-level slogan like 'we'll make the education better, bla, bla'. But that's a wishlist, not a goal. When I look at the amount of money my wife and I spent on our uni degrees it makes me sick. It honestly does. Some nice words in those articles about having free education but is anyone even proposing that? I am more than happy to give them even more tax money if they commit to the goal of making education free so my kids don't have to go through what I had to go through. But on the other hand, looking at the current system, I don't trust them with a single cent, and I'll do whatever it takes to minimise my tax liability..."

I dont know who's quote this is, but why does it make you sick?

You invested money in your future to earn more money.

It's no different to a business owner starting a business investing money to make more money.

You expecting me the tax payer to cover your cost of investing in your future, is as crazy as a business owner expecting the tax payer to cover his business start up cost.

As it is you already have the luxury of not paying hex debts back until you earn a certain amount, imagine if business owners had the same luxury and only paid business start up loans until they earnt 47K a year or whatever it is that you start paying your hex debt back at, but they dont they pay the money back straight away and even if the business fails.

It sucks as it is, as i could be wrong but i expect if you never earn over the 47K a year then id expect its the tax payer who ends up covering your uni course cost?

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 2:13pm
flollo wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

Battleground Melbourne live at CPAC.

Supa, did you actually watch the whole video? I can't handle it, that 1 min intro is already too much for me.

@DSDS some media created the perception that all Australians were collectively united against the repressive government. They created an image of all Australians being on the streets and being confronted by the police. This is what people overseas saw.

As you know this is false. An overwhelming majority of the population supported the measures and followed them. Only a small minority protested. Look at the popularity of Mark McGowan. If things were so terrible in Vic you would expect the current government to lose the upcoming election. However, they are probably going for a landslide win. These are the things that people overseas didn't see, all they saw were the snippets of confrontation between police and protestors.

Watched first minute, that was it...

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 2:35pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:

"What is the actual strategy for higher education in Australia? Does anyone have one? All sides of politics just have some high-level slogan like 'we'll make the education better, bla, bla'. But that's a wishlist, not a goal. When I look at the amount of money my wife and I spent on our uni degrees it makes me sick. It honestly does. Some nice words in those articles about having free education but is anyone even proposing that? I am more than happy to give them even more tax money if they commit to the goal of making education free so my kids don't have to go through what I had to go through. But on the other hand, looking at the current system, I don't trust them with a single cent, and I'll do whatever it takes to minimise my tax liability..."

I dont know who's quote this is, but why does it make you sick?

You invested money in your future to earn more money.

It's no different to a business owner starting a business investing money to make more money.

You expecting me the tax payer to cover your cost of investing in your future, is as crazy as a business owner expecting the tax payer to cover his business start up cost.

As it is you already have the luxury of not paying hex debts back until you earn a certain amount, imagine if business owners had the same luxury and only paid business start up loans until they earnt 47K a year or whatever it is that you start paying your hex debt back at, but they dont they pay the money back straight away and even if the business fails.

It sucks as it is, as i could be wrong but i expect if you never earn over the 47K a year then id expect its the tax payer who ends up covering your uni course cost?

Good in theory, but in reality it creates situation where kids from wealthy families will go into Uni, and kids from lower socio economic groups will not. This further creates a have and have nots society. Having a $30 K ( probably being conservative here) plus debt at end of degree is off putting to many families, whereas to others it is small change and the family will pay up front. Of course there are many in between. Also Uni's will sign up kids that are unsuitable for the course and pull out before completion and still have debt.
Entry to a Uni course should be earnt not bought and it should be universal like it was in pre 90's. The multiplyer effect of having a well educated population is also a major economic bonus.
Using business owner not really great example as if you wish to study to be a nurse, paramedic, teacher etc

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 2:47pm
flollo wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

Battleground Melbourne live at CPAC.

Supa, did you actually watch the whole video? I can't handle it, that 1 min intro is already too much for me.

@DSDS some media created the perception that all Australians were collectively united against the repressive government. They created an image of all Australians being on the streets and being confronted by the police. This is what people overseas saw.

As you know this is false. An overwhelming majority of the population supported the measures and followed them. Only a small minority protested. Look at the popularity of Mark McGowan. If things were so terrible in Vic you would expect the current government to lose the upcoming election. However, they are probably going for a landslide win. These are the things that people overseas didn't see, all they saw were the snippets of confrontation between police and protestors.

I watched the first 10 minutes then skipped forward and watched 30 seconds at a time . Just curious if this is broadcast to other parts of the world and their reaction if it is . It’s very dramatic the way it was presented and comes across as a cookers camp . In saying that I do also believe things went to far with lockdowns and the riot police firing rubber bullets on citizens . Looking at how Dan is polling in the up coming election , the majority of people appear to support him .

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 3:26pm

Yes, this is exactly the footage that people reacted to. It is so easy to make assumptions that Australians as a whole were crushed by a totalitarian state. Especially with this style of production. Sadly, there is not much footage that was sent globally about the things we were strong at; empathy, care for each other, and respect for the rule of law. You talk to people from other countries and the overwhelming attitude is: 'disrupting daily life for a few hundred older people that die every day? Piss off!' It's hard to explain that this attitude just doesn't fly in Australia.

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 3:29pm

This will be interesting if it’s proven to be true…….. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/07/kings-school-in-s...

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burleigh Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 3:39pm
Supafreak wrote:

This will be interesting if it’s proven to be true…….. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/07/kings-school-in-s...

It will be swept under the rug. i guarantee it

burleigh's picture
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burleigh Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 3:45pm
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
flollo wrote:

@DSDS

Some of these concerns are valid. But I'm not finding the associated stigmatisation attractive. It doesn't help the cause. Also, our position to attract talent got a lot worse in the last 2-3 years. I was in Europe in July and everyone was ridiculing me with 'They finally let you out of the prison..'. Initially, these comments come as a joke but they are followed by a more serious discussion about us imprisoning people during covid. I unsuccessfully tried to explain that it wasn't as bad as the media made it. Nothing worked. I had several friends who wanted to come for a visit for a while but everyone's given up. No one wants to touch it. We need to now fix this perception. So it would be good if we didn't create more hostility.

It was as bad as the media portrayed it.

Scomo grounded the whole nation in our bedrooms for being naughty. We weren’t allowed out of our houses, we weren’t allowed out of our shires, w3 weren’t allowed out of our states and we weren’t allowed out of the country.

Australian citizens weren’t even allowed back in their home if they were overseas.

How can you possibly exaggerate that heinous reality?

The pin cushions want to quickly forget exactly what happened. I will never forget what they did to everyday Australians.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 3:48pm

@indo what are you trying to say? As far as I remember I pay income tax in this country. It has nothing to do with the business I work with. Salaries are negotiated in the free market on a gross income basis. I also pay the GST which is basically a consumption tax. Again, nothing to do with businesses, they collect it and act as administrators for the government but they are not the ones paying for it. The end consumers are the ultimate payers of GST. I also pay the stamp duty when I buy the property or even take out insurance. Then, if I want to own the car I need to pay the rego. If I buy a car above a certain threshold I get hit with a luxury car tax. And when I put the petrol into the car - again, more money to the government. The list goes on.

So based on the above I would say I am a significant stakeholder in how the collected money will be spent. I can assure you that I definitely expect something in return for all those expenses. You, your business, or other businesses also have their own expectations and are also significant stakeholders in the decision-making. But we are all mutually exclusive, I don't need your permission to seek returns on the investments I made through the taxes I personally paid. Therefore, your analogy is false.

I would love to see investments in higher education and health care. I would like lower (or none) out-of-pocket expenses for the next generations of students. It will, for example, help them buy a house once they're working as their net cash position will be better. I would also like to increase the resources in the health system so we can have elective surgeries move much faster. I think that would be a good investment from the taxes I personally paid. For you indo it might be a stronger investment in defense or increasing business incentives. Some want it all thrown into fighting climate change.

We all get to choose what we want in a free country. This is called democracy.

Fliplid's picture
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Fliplid Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 4:23pm

@ Indo "You expecting me the tax payer to cover your cost of investing in your future, is as crazy as a business owner expecting the tax payer to cover his business start up cost."

The current policies of the LNP in areas of health, education, child care, even just the provision of advice to government, etc does exactly that. Tax dollars go to companies to provide a service at a profit to the business owner. The rhetoric to justify this system is that private providers of these services do it more efficiently than those that are government run. During COVID this was shown to be false, as if anyone needed convincing, when the highest number of deaths in aged care were recorded in privately run aged care centres showing that the services provided are actually not as good as those from publicly run centres.

So in fact you're tax dollars are, right now, ending up in the coffers of businesses, and plenty of them are based overseas

"It sucks as it is, as i could be wrong but i expect if you never earn over the 47K a year then id expect its the tax payer who ends up covering your uni course cost?"

In regards to education your tax dollars are paying for the education of children whose parents are the wealthiest people in the country when they have chosen to send them to private schools. I'd rather see kids from all areas and households be given a fair and good education. The arrangement as it stands have children from less well off backgrounds missing out while the tax payer subsidises Gina Rineharts offspring. Like you say "it sucks"

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 6:45pm
andy-mac wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:

"What is the actual strategy for higher education in Australia? Does anyone have one? All sides of politics just have some high-level slogan like 'we'll make the education better, bla, bla'. But that's a wishlist, not a goal. When I look at the amount of money my wife and I spent on our uni degrees it makes me sick. It honestly does. Some nice words in those articles about having free education but is anyone even proposing that? I am more than happy to give them even more tax money if they commit to the goal of making education free so my kids don't have to go through what I had to go through. But on the other hand, looking at the current system, I don't trust them with a single cent, and I'll do whatever it takes to minimise my tax liability..."

I dont know who's quote this is, but why does it make you sick?

You invested money in your future to earn more money.

It's no different to a business owner starting a business investing money to make more money.

You expecting me the tax payer to cover your cost of investing in your future, is as crazy as a business owner expecting the tax payer to cover his business start up cost.

As it is you already have the luxury of not paying hex debts back until you earn a certain amount, imagine if business owners had the same luxury and only paid business start up loans until they earnt 47K a year or whatever it is that you start paying your hex debt back at, but they dont they pay the money back straight away and even if the business fails.

It sucks as it is, as i could be wrong but i expect if you never earn over the 47K a year then id expect its the tax payer who ends up covering your uni course cost?

Good in theory, but in reality it creates situation where kids from wealthy families will go into Uni, and kids from lower socio economic groups will not. This further creates a have and have nots society. Having a $30 K ( probably being conservative here) plus debt at end of degree is off putting to many families, whereas to others it is small change and the family will pay up front. Of course there are many in between. Also Uni's will sign up kids that are unsuitable for the course and pull out before completion and still have debt.
Entry to a Uni course should be earnt not bought and it should be universal like it was in pre 90's. The multiplyer effect of having a well educated population is also a major economic bonus.
Using business owner not really great example as if you wish to study to be a nurse, paramedic, teacher etc

If we were only talking about a pay upfront or pay as you go system then 100% it would be true, but its not true for the current hex debt type system many people from socio economic groups go through university having a debt at the end isn't off pointing, it would only be off pointing if you had to pay the debt back no matter what you earnt most low social economic familys would just think if I'm earning that much then im happy to pay it back, plus by the time its being paid back its not the families problem.

If there is lower take up of university courses from lower social economical groups the reasons would be way more complex and a combination of reasons more social and cultural rather than economical.

Even for myself and most of my friends whom i wouldn't say were low social economic but more regional blue collar mid to lower class families most of our parents never went to university so we weren't expected to or encouraged too, actually my father discouraged us from doing so it would never have suited me, but in hindsight my sister who was more academic could have benefited.

On the flip side, id expect many kids with university educated parents especially from city area would natural expect their kids to go to university.

Anyway at the other extreme a free university system would also have big problems, firstly the burden on tax payer, and secondly encourage more of those typical killing time party uni students types and also see people go into courses that aren't suitable or just lack dedication and even be negative influence on others..

Having some type of investment in things by knowing at some stage you may have to pay things back, helps ensure more responsibly both in choice of course and dedication to studies.

I dont know a lot about it and maybe they already do it, but if they were smart they could tweak the basic system and for periods give discounted rates in some areas, for instance if we need more doctors or nurses you encourage people into that area with financial discounted incentives, while doing the opposite for other areas where there is very little demand for jobs but everyone wants to do or just nonsense courses that dont help people get a job at the end, put the prices up or even pay upfront or as go.

@ flollo
Great you pay tax, doesn't mean you deserve everything for free.

@Fliplid

Look i can see where your ideology lies so no chance i will sway you, but i think its hard to argue that anything government, be it council level, state or federal run is efficient, in all cases its hugely inefficient in every single way use of money and use of Labor.

Yeah sure in the case of Covid and aged care it had a win, but fuck its a rare win.

Im not a fan of private schools and my kids will be going public all the way, but obviously government provides some funding to private schools to encourage them to be built or expand to help reduce pressure on the public system if they didn't and there was less private schools the public system would be much worse.

Private schools are also important in that it gives people choice, be it for religion, or a different style of learning or just to avoid certain indoctrination of beliefs they dont agree with, and even better it keeps all them rich up themselves kids all in one place.

Anyway in every case, that the government helps encourage a service, it helps ensure that the the government doesn't have the burden of running things and the tax payer doesn't have the burden of completely funding things, and just as importantly you get choice, and choice is really important even if we all dont use it.

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GuySmiley Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 7:13pm

@info #there’salwaysacomment

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Fliplid Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 7:39pm

indo, no system is perfect and I agree that there is waste in government run services. There is also rorting by the private sector as well.

I’m easily swayed by logical arguments but the small government, low taxes mantra doesn’t make much sense to me. If government doesn’t fund services then either services disappear or you end up paying for them by paying private companies, eg toll roads or health insurance. If Australia didn’t have Medicare a doctors visit or hospital treatment would be a fairly substantial out of pocket expense

Locally I see private schools building massive halls and entertainment complexes, gymnasiums, solar farms etc, advertising billboards on all the major roads, all subsidised by government. That’s not educating kids, which is what the money is meant for. The public system would not be worse off without the private schools if the same level of funding was used in public schools That statement is a furphy used by private school principals shoring up their funding

My gripe isn’t with private education, like you say, choice is great, however I don’t think taxes should be used to create a two tiered system where one level is crying out for basic needs to be met when another is awash in funds. The effects in years to come will be a disaster. I’m all for an equitable distribution of taxes that is a benefit to all Australians not a select few, particularly those who have no problem affording that type of luxury.

Anyway this link gives an idea of what is going on with education funding better than I can explain.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-13/rich-school-poor-school-australia...

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AndyM Friday, 7 Oct 2022 at 8:18pm

"it helps ensure that the the government doesn't have the burden of running things"

Jeez, you wouldn't want the government running things eh Indo?

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 8:11am
AndyM wrote:

"it helps ensure that the the government doesn't have the burden of running things"

Jeez, you wouldn't want the government running things eh Indo?

The government has a very long list of things to run and our taxes to pay for, and as we know from literally hundreds of pages on swellnet those that are happy with how governments run things are very rare, because as we know they are inefficient in use of money and labour and everything wrapped in red tape.

So pretty crazy when people like you want the government to control more things in your life and to also have less choice.

But yeah thats where you and my ideologies differ your a lefty, so you want big government, high taxes and the government to control your life.#

Im a conservative i want the opposite, i want small government, minimal taxes and least government involvement in my life.

# Anyone who didn't enjoy the government controlling their life during Covid, should probably rethink their political ideologies.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 8:31am
Fliplid wrote:

indo, no system is perfect and I agree that there is waste in government run services. There is also rorting by the private sector as well.

I’m easily swayed by logical arguments but the small government, low taxes mantra doesn’t make much sense to me. If government doesn’t fund services then either services disappear or you end up paying for them by paying private companies, eg toll roads or health insurance. If Australia didn’t have Medicare a doctors visit or hospital treatment would be a fairly substantial out of pocket expense

Locally I see private schools building massive halls and entertainment complexes, gymnasiums, solar farms etc, advertising billboards on all the major roads, all subsidised by government. That’s not educating kids, which is what the money is meant for. The public system would not be worse off without the private schools if the same level of funding was used in public schools That statement is a furphy used by private school principals shoring up their funding

My gripe isn’t with private education, like you say, choice is great, however I don’t think taxes should be used to create a two tiered system where one level is crying out for basic needs to be met when another is awash in funds. The effects in years to come will be a disaster. I’m all for an equitable distribution of taxes that is a benefit to all Australians not a select few, particularly those who have no problem affording that type of luxury.

Anyway this link gives an idea of what is going on with education funding better than I can explain.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-13/rich-school-poor-school-australia...

There is always a balance in these things to me the current system in most areas is a pretty good balance for instance you need a public health care system, but you also need a private system, it provides people choice.

Private and public schools same deal, we have a big private school near us too and im not a fan of it and it most likely receives too much money, the argument of how much funding they should get or not get isn't one i can have, it would have to be judged on a case by case basis.

I regards to public schools im sure its an area most people will always think is underfunded or needs to improved, thats just life.

Privately owned toll roads is one rare area that I'm totally against maybe even the only area it should be all public owned.

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gsco Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 9:36am

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

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soggydog Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 10:13am

.sorry I’ve shortened my third edit, in short I’m best not to engage with Indo on these matters.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 1:23pm
gsco wrote:

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

That makes no sense whatsoever?

The social economic disadvantaged will always be trapped into using a public system, if you do away with the private system they still have to use the public system, all it means is the public system has more pressure on it increasing things like wait times even further.

Having a private system along with a public system means if you dont want to wait you can pay extra and have a higher level of service or be seen quicker, yeah sure you need money to use a private system and its not something everyone can afford, but it still provides choice and even for those struggling financially many at some stage might pay to get seen quicker and again it takes pressure off the public system so we all benefit.

If there was no private system obviously we would have less choice and if you wanted to seek an alternative you would be forced to travel overseas for private care.

BTW. Im coming from a point of view of someone that 99% of the time has used the public system and doesn't even have private health insurance.

Of course Labor voters(not saying you) always try to scare people into thinking LNP want to do way with the pubic system and we will become like the USA, anyone who takes them seriously is crazy, it's just not reality, funding of medicare under LNP since Labor were last in increased by 50%, from just under 20 billion to just over 30 million.

We have spoken about this before and it seems everyone has different experiences and maybe im just lucky in my area or other areas I've lived, but in my experience the whole system has improved noticeably since the 90s, even on the dole with a health care card at times i was forced to pay to see a doctor or some medical service, now at an age i can afford to pay, i never pay anything, even being in hospital for a week the biggest cost was the car park fee's when my wife came to visit.

Again i get that everyones experiences differ but at the end of he day we all have to measure things on our own experiences.

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blackers Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 1:53pm
gsco wrote:

Public-private provision models of things like education, healthcare, childcare, aged care, etc, do not give people choice.

It traps people into only being able to access what they can afford, thus trapping the lower socioeconomic demographic into this socioeconomic demographic.

It just structuralises and embeds inequality and poverty. These people have little choice or freedom. They are locked out of accessing high quality services.

It's more accurate to say that public-private provision models of these services give only the well off, the wealthy, choice - everyone else is shafted, trapped, have no choice, and have little freedom.

We do not want to become like America.

100% in agreement. It's a false choice.

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sypkan Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 2:16pm

it seems your experience is incredibly lucky indo...

my old man had private health insurance, which did allow him to bypass waiting lists and recieve a higher standard of service etc. (by servants and waiters - as an ex nurse girlfriend described working in private) but 'the gap' he still had to pay was ridiculous, $1000s of dollars at times

as I've said before, I often have had to wait up to a week just to see a GP...

freeride having to hold the ER hostage essentially just to get help...

flollo's mother, or in law or whatever, having to travel overseas just to get an operation... an old chook, obviously in pain, travelling overseas, spending 20k for an operation in a third world country...

people waiting 6-12 months just for an initial consultation to see a specialist... to only then get on another waiting list...

'ramping' of 12 hours or more...

these are all signs of a system in crisis

yes our public and private systems are excelkent - when / if you can actually get admited into them -. but these shortcomings of them are well beyond operational procedures...

the public / private promise has not delivered

and we are only in the infantile stages of that transition, where one could argue we are still enjoying the benefits of a once excellent public system

american style, woeful inequality and outcomes system here we come...

the australian transition has unfortunately been captured by private health system lobbyists (yeh, that old chestnut) ...who have a clear vision - that does not include any semblance of equality...

it doesn't have to be US versus nordic 'full socialism'

japan is often touted as having one of the best systems in the world

where oz 'dreams' of having things like dental and physio'extras' included are the basics

the japanese system...

"The health care system in Japan provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%. Payment for personal medical services is offered by a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. All residents of Japan are required by the law to have health insurance coverage. People without insurance from employers can participate in a national health insurance programme, administered by local governments. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice and cannot be denied coverage. Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians.

Medical fees are strictly regulated by the government to keep them affordable. Depending on the family’s income and the age of the insured, patients are responsible for paying 10%, 20%, or 30% of medical fees, with the government paying the remaining fee.[1] Also, monthly thresholds are set for each household, again depending on income and age, and medical fees exceeding the threshold are waived or reimbursed by the government.

Uninsured patients are responsible for paying 100% of their medical fees, but fees are waived for low-income households receiving a government subsidy..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan

for emphasis...

"Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians.

Medical fees are strictly regulated by the government to keep them affordable"

it seems australia's race for 'freedom' and 'choice' may have overlooked a thing or two...

like putting patients, population, and equality above company profits

"Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians."

that is some quality starting point!

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 2:30pm

Reading other peoples experiences i think my area must be better than most but even when i lived on the Goldie, Sunny Coast and Fraser island (Hervey bay) my experiences were all real positive.

Just last week i noticed late Thursday arvo id run out of a daily medication, wife was all negative, you wont get an appointment until next week, and im like really, so i rang up and got a spot for Friday at 4:00 no issues.

All free they dont even make you sign or show anything these days.

And my local doctors are real good always Indian, Pakistan, Chinese and yeah im racially stereotyping here but fuck IMHO they are generally better than bule doctors, i never get the feeling im being rushed and they are so thorough, only issue is they only stay around for a few years as i guess fulfil regional placements before being able to work in city areas.

I had a bit of a health scare the other year, i thought i had a mini stoke and weird tingling sensations in different areas of body including my head and was getting regular headaches so i had to get all types of scans and blood test at different places, my Pakistan doctor was so good, explored evety avenue all kinds of test, couldn't fault her amazing doctor.

Most test were free, but maybe there was one or two i had to pay for, but nothing crazy.

Luckily my health ended up being not serious and just a bulged disc affecting a nerve and then my doctor even gave me a referral to go see a local physiotherapist half a dozen free appointments, that were actually quite good helped a lot and even learnt how to self manage things better.

Maybe one day i will have a different experience but for now I'm happy with the system.

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gsco Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 2:47pm

I’m not basing my judgement off Australia, which is a great country.

I’m basing it off a short period of living in the US, which is the logical outcome of the direction Australia is edging towards each year.

Have a look at how stratified, unequal and unfair access to and the outcomes are in health and education there, and how dependent they are on how much money you have.

The wealthy have access to the highest level of services in the world.

There is a huge underbelly of poverty and disadvantaged, with access to basically nothing and who are left to rot in hell.

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happyppl Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 2:52pm
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

ALP just keeps on lying and rorting and selling out Australians to the international corporations. Democracy in Australia is a sham.

From the highly undervalued Macrobusiness sit
+
Stage 3 tax cuts another gas cartel disaster
By Houses and Holes

It doesn’t do to remember anything in the Australian political economy. It goes against every instinct of the iMSM and our Rum Corps leadership.

Memory equals accountability and we can’t have that.

Today’s debate about Stage 3 tax cuts is a case in point. The original package of cuts, priced at $158bn, only passed the parliament thanks to the signature of Rex Patrick in the senate. He signed on the basis that, in return, Australia would toughen its domestic reservation regime for the gas cartel.

Knowing full well what a “psycho” he was dealing with in Scott Morrison, Patrick extracted a written contract, via The Australian:

Centre Alliance has received a written guarantee outlining the Morrison government’s gas policy, which the key minor party demanded in exchange for its support for the $158 billion personal income tax cuts package.

The copy of the draft gas policy, which has been signed by the government, was given to Centre Alliance senators last night ahead of a crucial vote in the Senate today on the tax cuts.

Centre Alliance senator Rex Patrick told The Australian in June he wanted a “clear understanding” of the government’s intention on gas, and the details in writing, before supporting the tax cuts.

Senator Patrick told The Australian the document detailed the measures of the government’s gas plan and the timetable in which they would be rolled out “over the next few months”.

A part of the deal was a review of the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism which concluded:

The review recognises that price is an important indicator in establishing whether the domestic market is functioning effectively and considers that the ACCC’s forward LNG netback price series is the most applicable prices when estimating the likelihood and extent of a potential shortfall. As such, the review recommends amending the ADGSM’s guidelines to include referencing the ACCC’s LNG netback price series in estimating a potential shortfall.

This amendment clarifies the relevance of the ACCC’s LNG netback price series to considerations under the ADGSM and strengthens the ADGSM’s ability to deliver on its objective of securing domestic gas supply.

This never happened. At the time, Labor was jumping up and down demanding that the gas price be regulated at $7Gj:

MORRISON GOVERNMENT GAS DEAL

July 05, 2019

Gas prices have skyrocketed under the Liberals – already leading three manufacturers to close down and threatening the viability of many more businesses according to the ACCC.

The Coalition has talked a big game but has refused to bring big gas companies to heel.

Under Senator Rex Patrick’s deal, the Government has committed that gas prices for Australian manufacturers and households will be cut to $7 a gigajoule or less.

It is now time for the Government to deliver clear detail about how this price will be achieved and when by; and what does Scott Morrison propose to do if manufacturers find themselves unable to source gas at the price promised by the Government.

Yet, bizarrely, Labor has just agreed to an LNG netback price benchmark for the ADGSM that will deliver not $7Gj gas but $70Gj. Who “has refused to bring big gas companies to heel”?

I ask you, should tax cuts for the rich go ahead when the opposite side of the parliamentary contract to pass them, cheap gas and power prices, have not?“

rum corp government, spot on, i use that anology (?) too, a pox on both party's.
this icac is a farce before it begins, it should be federal looking into state govt deals with miners, hydro carbon etc.
how state govt beaurocracy's (worksafe, workcover, epa, csiro) let them off for breaches of oz laws and illegaly change legislation to suit their paymasters (multinational, property developers etc). and sadly it won't change.
democracy , ha! no way, plutocracy...yes.

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Fliplid Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 4:18pm

indo the problem isn't having a public and private system. The problem is that tax money is diverted from the public system to prop up the private system and this is gradually eroding the public side of things.

Tax money is going to wealthy schools whose clientele are millionaires and can afford to pay for the education. The result is that the private school uses the tax money to build a gymnasium with an indoor swimming pool while a public primary school around the corner can't afford a coat of paint on ageing buildings.

By the way, you're starting to sound like a closet socialist with all this reliance on the public system, where's your aspirations and have a go attitude ;)

Anyway, I've had my rant. Have a good weekend

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 7:29pm

The problem is it's too hard to know if this is really true or if its just a perception of the situation.

The only way to really know is to look at the whole of Australia's funding for private and public schools and see where funding has increased and also where demand has increased.

My understanding is funding is pretty complex because it's a mix of state and federal funding, so you could probably cherry pick things for a certain view either way if only looking at one state or at only state funding or federal government funding.

Again maybe I'm lucky but we just had a year 7 to 10 new public school built near us, so I'm not complaining, and i was shocked in how fast it went through from announcement to completion.

Obviously I'm not a socialist but I'm just like most people i dont want everything privately owned or publicly owned, I think we all kind of agree in one sense its more just the balance we dont agree on.

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Supafreak Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 7:37pm

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/16/private-school-fu.... Government funding for private schools in Australia has increased at nearly five times the rate of public school funding over the past 10 years according to new analysis, with predictions of a $74bn shortfall in money for public schools this decade despite the shift to a needs-based scheme.

The analysis compared combined commonwealth and state government funding for schools in 2009-10 to 2019-20, based on the Productivity Commission’s report on government services, released earlier this month. It was conducted by the public school advocacy group Save our Schools……… Overall, in 2019-20 the commonwealth spent $3,246 on public school students and the states spent $11,935, for a total of $15,181. Meanwhile, the commonwealth spent $10,211 for each private school student and the states spent $2,978, a total of $13,189. The figures exclude user cost of capital, depreciation, payroll tax and school transport as these items are not included in the funding figures for private schools.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 7:55pm

I dont know if thats true or not, its a Guardian article so i would take anything from the Guardian with a big grain of salt its bound to cherry pick and paint a certain view they are extremely clever at twisting things to come to an viewpoint that there audience wants to hear, also as i mentioned above you have to take into account for where demand is, funding is always going to follow demand.

Anyway so far I've been very happy with the public school where my kids go, sure there is some woke indoctrination like my daughter the other day telling me she is half Asian so cant be racist cause apparently only white people can be racist, but you can just do a bit of re-education at home and explain that well thats just not true and explain why.

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AndyM Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 8:04pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

I dont know if thats true or not, its a Guardian article so i would take anything from the Guardian with a big grain of salt its bound to cherry pick and paint a certain view they are extremely clever at twisting things to come to an viewpoint that there audience wants to hear, also as i mentioned above you have to take into account for where demand is, funding is always going to follow demand.

Anyway so far I've been very happy with the public school where my kids go, sure there is some woke indoctrination like my daughter the other day telling me she is half Asian so cant be racist cause apparently only white people can be racist, but you can just do a bit of re-education at home and explain that well thats just not true and explain why.

Hahahahaha!!

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 8:07pm

You dont have to dig very deep, doesn't sound that bad

Maybe its the states that aren't pulling their weight.

Media Release Date:14 February 2022

Morrison Government delivers record schools funding

Ministers:
The Hon Stuart Robert MP
Minister for Employment, Workforce, Skills, Small and Family Business
Acting Minister for Education and Youth

The Morrison Government continues to deliver record school funding to support the educational needs of Australian students now and into the future, according to a Productivity Commission report.

The annual Report on Government Services 2022 (RoGS) provides information on the equity, effectiveness and efficiency of government services in Australia.

The latest RoGS report shows the share of public expenditure on all schools provided by the Australian Government increased from 26.3 per cent in 2012–2013 to 31.7 per cent in 2019–2020.

Acting Minister for Education and Youth, Stuart Robert, said this growth shows the Government is targeting its education funding right with initiatives like the Quality Schools package.

‘The report shows that between 2012-13 and 2019-20, Australian Government funding per student for all schools increased significantly in real terms,’ Minister Robert said.

‘Government schools have been the biggest beneficiary of this growth, with Commonwealth per student funding growing by 64.1 per cent in real terms over the past 10 years compared with 49.8 per cent in non-government schools.

‘We are investing record funding of $315.2 billion for all schools between 2018 and 2029 under the Quality Schools package. A record $24.8 billion will be invested in schools this year, and a further record $26.4 billion is expected next year.

‘Since we came to Government in 2013, funding across all schools has increased by 91.2 per cent. Government schools have seen the biggest Commonwealth funding increase, with funding growing by 115.3 per cent since 2013.

‘Commonwealth funding for students in regional and remote Australia is growing from $4.4 billion in 2018 to an estimated $7.3 billion in 2029, an increase of 67.1 per cent.’

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truebluebasher Monday, 10 Oct 2022 at 5:46pm

Oz Oct 2021 > 2022 = Covid Cases x2 > Deaths x3

ADF $6.5b blowout > 28 plans 97 years behind.
Govt Ads 1/4 Politicized
ALP death by Stage 3 cuts....

Choose yer weapons...
Unmasked Boris Office Party
Johnny's AWB Butchered WMD
Smug Muskavite's Spaced Out Peace Pipe

Pick this one : Albo's Stage 3 Pain Free Sanction Buster

Aug 2022 : Oz increases Imports from Enemy Russia by 12.3%
Aug 2022 : Oz increases Exports to Enemy Russia by 88%
Aug 2022 : Oz fast tracks weapons funnelling to Enemy Russia by 300% ($4m > $16m)

(1) Fast tracks War & ADF (2) No Dopey MSM Sanctions (3) Pays for VIP Tax Cuts.
Pandemic : No Tests + No Reports > No Iso = No Covid
Business will still be able to Mandate Bivalent Vax for Sunburn & Pimples but not Covid.

Strange how immaculate conceptions are never witnessed by Breaky TV.
Everyone just goes on pretending Oz have got this...sure mate...still a pack of Bastards!

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Roadkill Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 10:26am

Labor promised $275 off your power bills & now power bills are going up 35%+.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 10:57am

And by 35% they mean > 100%.

But at least they’re making up for the “deficit” in immigration by bringing in Doctors, teachers and nurses who can’t speak English and have less than adequate qualifications. That should work well!

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/visa-changes-lower-the-bar-for-m...

Democracy in Australia is a sham.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 11:58am

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 11:59am

Poorly disguised swearword!

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Roadkill Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 1:48pm
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 2:27pm
Roadkill wrote:
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

And you voted for Scomo….FFS.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 2:28pm

“All-time immigration highs. Tax cuts for the needy rich. Carte blanche for resource miners. Cash rivers for god schools. King Charles forever and ever. Gee, it’s just as well we got rid of that bad old Morrison guy. Breath of fresh air.”

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 2:44pm
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:

Albo the Eunuch delivering the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Anyone still vouching for this useless cnt?

Plenty in here vouch for him… they took the Albo and Labor BS….hook line and sinker.

And you voted for Scomo….FFS.

like most things, you have nfi.

the queen of assumptions is all you are.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 2:53pm

So who did you vote for?