Climate Change

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blowfly started the topic in Wednesday, 1 Jul 2020 at 9:40am

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AlfredWallace's picture
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AlfredWallace Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 10:35am
flollo wrote:

Does anyone know of a source that forecasts the cost of kwh as we switch to renewable energy? Often I see the claims that renewables will bring 'cheap power to Australians'

But how cheap? $0.20 per kwh, $0.10 per kwh, zero...? I read an announcement by the Victorian government about GW storage targets by 2035 which is great to see. But I noticed a claim about 'providing cheap electricity to residents...'. There are so many claims like this thrown around but without actually specifying what cheap means I see it as a form of populism.

My whole life I always looked at the cost of kwh I'm paying and the consumption requirements of the appliances that I'm using. I know exactly how much each thing is costing me. So if anyone has a reliable source that is specific about the retail cost of kwh forecasts per energy source it would be good to learn more about it. It would also be good to see some target commitment from the politicians about it as well.

Follo. hows things ? Our family has no energy bills but still paying annual rates to our shire, thats it. I simply don’t get it with most peoples view towards removing themselves from the bosom of ‘fossil fuel’ use. It’s not about how much it costs for solar or the low feed in tariff input rates into the grid. Surely this is about as a nation, doing what’s right for our country and its prolonged survival of all biota.
Go to any state government web site, ample incentives and rebate schemes, payback packages, zero interest loans etc. for all things ‘better energy’, its all there. We have a 6kw system coupled with an evacuated tube hot water system (great NSW company, Apricus making quality equipment) and live life with no energy bills or emissions from our family home.
Green rebate schemes have been in existence for decades. When that slimy xenophobic prick John Howard was in power, he deliberately hid the big fund allocated to a rebate scheme for it to only be discovered in his last year of tenure. He is a fucking cunt, arsehole, racist, xenophobic moron, once a big component of The White Australia policy movement I’ll remind us all.
It’s simple, at the age of 40, a long time ago, wife and i looked at our annual energy bills, approximately $2000. We summised we may live to 80years. So, therefore if we lived another 40 years we’d be paying out at least $80,000 or more to a fossil fuel energy company, well thats not happening.
Spend now, to save way more down the track, invest in whatever alternative energy you can and it wont cost the planet or your hard earned living, besides, who wants to keep giving money to those organisations who are our gross polluters. Just my opinion. AW

AlfredWallace's picture
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AlfredWallace Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 10:35am
flollo wrote:

Does anyone know of a source that forecasts the cost of kwh as we switch to renewable energy? Often I see the claims that renewables will bring 'cheap power to Australians'

But how cheap? $0.20 per kwh, $0.10 per kwh, zero...? I read an announcement by the Victorian government about GW storage targets by 2035 which is great to see. But I noticed a claim about 'providing cheap electricity to residents...'. There are so many claims like this thrown around but without actually specifying what cheap means I see it as a form of populism.

My whole life I always looked at the cost of kwh I'm paying and the consumption requirements of the appliances that I'm using. I know exactly how much each thing is costing me. So if anyone has a reliable source that is specific about the retail cost of kwh forecasts per energy source it would be good to learn more about it. It would also be good to see some target commitment from the politicians about it as well.

Follo. hows things ? Our family has no energy bills but still paying annual rates to our shire, thats it. I simply don’t get it with most peoples view towards removing themselves from the bosom of ‘fossil fuel’ use. It’s not about how much it costs for solar or the low feed in tariff input rates into the grid. Surely this is about as a nation, doing what’s right for our country and its prolonged survival of all biota.
Go to any state government web site, ample incentives and rebate schemes, payback packages, zero interest loans etc. for all things ‘better energy’, its all there. We have a 6kw system coupled with an evacuated tube hot water system (great NSW company, Apricus making quality equipment) and live life with no energy bills or emissions from our family home.
Green rebate schemes have been in existence for decades. When that slimy xenophobic prick John Howard was in power, he deliberately hid the big fund allocated to a rebate scheme for it to only be discovered in his last year of tenure. He is a fucking cunt, arsehole, racist, xenophobic moron, once a big component of The White Australia policy movement I’ll remind us all.
It’s simple, at the age of 40, a long time ago, wife and i looked at our annual energy bills, approximately $2000. We summised we may live to 80years. So, therefore if we lived another 40 years we’d be paying out at least $80,000 or more to a fossil fuel energy company, well thats not happening.
Spend now, to save way more down the track, invest in whatever alternative energy you can and it wont cost the planet or your hard earned living, besides, who wants to keep giving money to those organisations who are our gross polluters. Just my opinion. AW

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bonza Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 10:42am

"It’s not about how much it costs for solar or the low feed in tariff input rates into the grid."

its everything to do about cost.

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bonza Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 10:50am

@flollo. https://www.withouthotair.com/
this was first published in 2005. been updated since. Its free! I came across it back around 2012. I still haven't had a better resource to help understand your question.
There is a chapter on costs here - https://www.withouthotair.com/c28/page_214.shtml
the book is outstanding and free and in plain english. which on a topic i don't know too much about has been extremely helpful to me. UK centric but still very relevant

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AlfredWallace Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 11:43am
bonza wrote:

"It’s not about how much it costs for solar or the low feed in tariff input rates into the grid."

its everything to do about cost.

Bonza. Good feedback. Depends on what you value in life wouldn’t you think. In Victoria, its very easy to get a system installed through the state governments Solar Homes Victoria, there are other rebates available for hot water systems etc., and other incentives as previously mentioned interest free small loans where you pay around $35 per month, a few coffees and take out lunch soon adds up. Again, depends on what you value in life. I know what I value. Do you ?

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bonza Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 2:20pm

for most people and corporations the main if only priority remains profit and cash flow. if one ignores those "values" then you have got a snowflakes chance in hell of making any sort of difference. That is the only reason why we are seeing uptake from big business in renewables and it bothers me not. Its the best if not only tool to effect change. yours and mine feels for the earth mean bugger all and will do bugger all to reduce GHG

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bonza Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 2:27pm

you also ignore the rental class scum - a growing and sizeable chunk of our nation - who don't have the luxury to access rebates, schemes or do anything significant that can reduce their GHG footprint at their primary residence.

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Robwilliams Thursday, 29 Sep 2022 at 4:12pm
velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Friday, 30 Sep 2022 at 2:58pm

Bravo Queensland:

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/96232

The beginnings of this are already in place (eg the rare earths) but this is the solid policy background that will turbo-charge it.

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Robwilliams Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 2:13pm

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AlfredWallace Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 12:15pm
Robwilliams wrote:

abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-04/lake-eyre-impact-of-gas-developme...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-04/federal-government-pledges-30-per...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-03/nt-rio-tinto-calls-for-era-chairm...

Hi Robwilliams. Thanks for posting those items, much appreciated. Ive got know idea how to upload stuff, bit of a dinosaur on computers. Keep well.

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Robwilliams Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 4:17pm

G'day Alfred I just use the copy paste highlight option at the bottom of abc articles or highlight the web address and copy. I know I put up a bit when time permits and was hoping someone as experienced as your self can add further insight if they wish. Allot of crew find it negative and allot is I understand that, but I believe education is part of change in the global garden. I know I tend to concentrate on all things environmental rather than focus of just climate change. Just trying to raise awareness in informing people of what is going on Australia wide and globally. Most is redirected from abc articles due to limited time.

Someone of your knowledge is invaluable where you can add something if you wish. I particularly enjoy swellnets ongoing articles of coastal environments as it is more relevant to surfing, but I'm a firm believer people should take an interest in how Australia's environments and global environments are used and managed. Especially if actions are detrimental or ethically unsound, every little bit counts. Not every one will agree or get it but it's people like yourself who have taught me about the natural world and the effects man has had on it good and bad.

Cheers Alfred swellnet abc and interested and pro active citizens of the world. I'm far from a radical greenie and younger than most on here but feel that positive change will always start and end with human knowledge and action. For me nothing beats the experiences I've had in the environments I've used. Some of those environments are currently healthy and some are rapidly declining. Maybe thats why I post. Sometimes it's frustrating but i believe we are more aware than we where 20yrs ago and people are trying to make positive change. Every bit count's in my opinion large or small. Take care of what you got. And here's to a healthier world.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 5:11pm

Im not sure if this is the right place maybe it deserves a thread of its own as might become quite a big topic.

And that's the energy crisis especially in Europe that is really going to start getting tuff for them now winter is coming on.

I think we are really starting to see that Germany didn't think things through real well in regard to energy transition and security and while it feels like we are transitioning too slowly to renewables, it's possible that the opposite is true with at-least Germany pushing things faster than the technology allows.

Came across this randomly today on Spotify but here's the YouTube version complete with annoying chicken, worth a listen though.

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velocityjohnno Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 5:40pm

Separate thread for that one Indo, it will be a big thing. Germany restarting coal fired stations (!!!!!) and apparently closing down nuclear (long lead in time, perhaps regret)

They'll be burning peat before this is out...

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 7:18pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

Separate thread for that one Indo, it will be a big thing. Germany restarting coal fired stations (!!!!!) and apparently closing down nuclear (long lead in time, perhaps regret)

They'll be burning peat before this is out...

Yeah it is starting to go a bit off topic, going to be interesting to watch it play out.

They should have definitely waited until they had built up renewables before shutting down nuclear such a weird move, i guess it must have been based on life of the plants.

Also weird in that their last newly built coal fired power plant only just came online in May 2020, crazy that they were still building coal power plants so recently.
https://www.powermag.com/germany-brings-last-new-coal-plant-online/

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velocityjohnno Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 7:25pm

Just out of interest, and a bit off topic - but not - this is how Europe lost much of its forests I believe:

out of further interest, it was the products derived from this that enabled the technology (shipbuilding and successful navigation) that saw all corners of the globe explored, first time ever/in last 10,000 years. Still way better than MEKP!

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AlfredWallace Wednesday, 5 Oct 2022 at 10:03am
Robwilliams wrote:

G'day Alfred I just use the copy paste highlight option at the bottom of abc articles or highlight the web address and copy. I know I put up a bit when time permits and was hoping someone as experienced as your self can add further insight if they wish. Allot of crew find it negative and allot is I understand that, but I believe education is part of change in the global garden. I know I tend to concentrate on all things environmental rather than focus of just climate change. Just trying to raise awareness in informing people of what is going on Australia wide and globally. Most is redirected from abc articles due to limited time.

Someone of your knowledge is invaluable where you can add something if you wish. I particularly enjoy swellnets ongoing articles of coastal environments as it is more relevant to surfing, but I'm a firm believer people should take an interest in how Australia's environments and global environments are used and managed. Especially if actions are detrimental or ethically unsound, every little bit counts. Not every one will agree or get it but it's people like yourself who have taught me about the natural world and the effects man has had on it good and bad.

Cheers Alfred swellnet abc and interested and pro active citizens of the world. I'm far from a radical greenie and younger than most on here but feel that positive change will always start and end with human knowledge and action. For me nothing beats the experiences I've had in the environments I've used. Some of those environments are currently healthy and some are rapidly declining. Maybe thats why I post. Sometimes it's frustrating but i believe we are more aware than we where 20yrs ago and people are trying to make positive change. Every bit count's in my opinion large or small. Take care of what you got. And here's to a healthier world.

Robwilliams. Hi mate. How’s things ? . You are an interested young person across a wide range of topics and that pleases me immensely. I don’t posture to anyone or any organisation, never have and never will. You make your own mind up by good readings, research and life experiences but more importantly by what you are thinking and what you value across the many and varied facets of life. Go with your heart I’d say.
You are very correct in what you say, we all need an environmental and social conscience, how else do we function as a society if you are not thinking about others or the environment in which we are meant to be part of. I was in primary school in the early 70’s, even way back then I was getting in strife with teachers because I’d come to school with a few badges on my clothing highlighting major environmental concerns of the time, but I have great parents, who still to this day reinforce the point of being true to yourself, oddly my parents were never that way (environment)inclined. I just saw the intrinsic beauty that birds and plants offer as well as every biological organism I came and still come across today. Follow what you believe. I was into birds and plants by the age of 5, still am in a major way, incredibly fulfilling areas of interest as is surfing by the way. Us surfers are connected to the environment in many ways, so we should take care of it. I’ve been told off by people all my life for my views, how dare they, what did they have to offer to any of my concerns, nothing, fucking nothing, just uneducated criticism. I wrote a bird book in grade 6, won a state competition, chuffed, still have the prize, another bird book. Early musings lead me to starting a business at the age of 22, revegetation and habitat building, operated continuously for 33 years, always had work, again follow your heart and your interests. I’m mildly happy with my input to build better environments for all biota, but really just a drop in the ocean of what’s required to steer Australia in a better direction.
I’ve watched Australia slowly destroying itself right in front of our own very national eyes. We have all the knowledge we need but we have GREED.
We have shareholders, yep, the mum and dad folks investing in businesses that are forced to generate massive profit for their shareholders at a HUGE cost to the planet. Just so every little Bob and Jenny from Cronulla or Peter and Julie from Geelong or Merv and Myrtle from Balcatta can get there annual profit return so they can tow their enormous caravan to a Big 4 caravan park, sit in deck chairs like everyone else in the park and listen to the ‘serenity’ and return there year after year or decades in fact. Puke.

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Robwilliams Wednesday, 5 Oct 2022 at 11:11am

Cheers Alfred, as I said it people like you who have lead the way, and have so much to offer. Wether it be knowledge or experience. Thanks for the motivation and inspiration for positive change, And to all who have the occasional doubt or frustration in testing global times, just go with your heart. Because it starts and ends with us.

cheers Superfreak caught the replay.

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AlfredWallace Wednesday, 5 Oct 2022 at 11:24am
andy-mac wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/05/wave-energy-machines...

Andy-Mac. Thanks, good article. Unfortunately the in between lines says it all. The head of Wave Swell Energy organisation will predominantly target European and US markets who are more supportive of the developing technology. Sums up Australia to a tee really, so, so slow on the uptake.
Approximately 25km from where we live, an entire farming community is up in arms over a proposed solar farm that would send its energy into the states grid with anticipation of us (Victorians) reaching zero carbon emissions (fossil fuel derived) by 2035. What the fuck is wrong with people ? As a well known British economist stated more than a decade ago, ’You Australians have had it too good for too long and its all about to come crashing down, your continent has essentially been a giant quarry for extractive industries and without it you’d be nothing’. Hard to argue with it.

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sypkan Wednesday, 5 Oct 2022 at 11:00pm

if im honest... climate change has been so politicised, i barely give a shit...

but this sure makes me angry... in the modern context, how can this even be a thing?

wrong on so many levels

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/sustainability/green-ener...

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AlfredWallace Thursday, 6 Oct 2022 at 7:58am
sypkan wrote:

if im honest... climate change has been so politicised, i barely give a shit...

but this sure makes me angry... in the modern context, how can this even be a thing?

wrong on so many levels

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/sustainability/green-ener...

Sypkan. Hi. Well that’s a very interesting statement. I hope your attitude is not contagious.
Referencing the aforementioned article, doesn’t surprise me at all, just shows the lack of responsibility and accountability that comes from global governments, I wouldn’t mind betting that someone in that government department is being ‘helped out’ if you know what I mean, by the company who just got busted.
This is no surprise, Australia is just one guilty party among many globally for the continual removal of vegetation whether it be legal or illegal.
Sure is a good way to continue to heat the planet by stripping all things green.
We have the same but a little different here, there’s an enormous pile of hardwood chips at a location in Corio Quay, North Geelong in Victoria where it appears to get bigger every day, the shute just spits chips onto the pile all day everyday and has been going on for decades, I often park my vehicle and look at the absurdity of the situation, queues of logging trucks stacked to the horizon with Eucalyptus sp. logs that get chipped, shipped to Japan or elsewhere and we subsequently buy it back as yellow tongue and grooved particle flooring just so we can build todays current generic mass housing pieces of shit, from my observation these houses are not first grade constructions.
Think about it for a moment, we cut down Eucalyptus forests or any other species of tree that sequester carbon, provide food and habitat for an enormous amount of organisms, maintain soil stability, shades the earths surface and help keep the planet as cool as possible.
All in the name of jobs for log carting contractors and particle board manufacturing.(offshore) there’s gotta be an alternative to this syndrome. Sending our Natural Heritage to the chipper is one fucked up idea, We are totally screwed up as a nation, a so called developed country.
Nationally, despite all the knowledge we have, we just keep making the wrong decisions regarding our environment. Bordering on insanity, making the same mistakes over and over and over again. Makes me sick.

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GreenJam Thursday, 6 Oct 2022 at 3:42pm

Alfred, I'd suggest the trees you are referring to being chipped are from short-rotation Eucalypt plantations grown for that specific purpose - woodchips. Not fit for higher value processing (typically sawlogs) although technology is improving and some of these logs could be used for engineered timber products like LVL or other mass timber products, but overall it is good for chip (or bioenergy/biochemicals) only. So I dont think there is anything absurd about what you are seeing.
Overall, forestry, and including short-rotation plantations, is key to mitigating this carbon issue if that is what the world is really intent on. And that includes an associated bioenergy industry - woody biomass sourced from forestry waste products. And I wouldnt believe outright what is presented in that BBC article about Drax, truth would be somewhere in the middle. Dont write off the importance of bioenergy for our sustainable energy future just because Greta says its bad...

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sypkan Thursday, 6 Oct 2022 at 4:42pm

Id say you're probably right there greenjam, but even with giving the grace of a best case scenario...

transporting woodchips to the UK to burn?

that's one hell of a carbon footprint...

luckily international shipping isn't counted in such frivilous pursuits

kinda makes a mockery of all that food miles and stuff counting though...

"...if that is what the world is really intent on..."

ya gotta wonder

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AlfredWallace Thursday, 6 Oct 2022 at 5:12pm

GreenJam. Hi mate. Good points all valid. I always make up my own mind on serious matters like this one, its the only way.Way, way back when i was 18yrs old, I would follow trucks back to their logging sites and i can reassure you they were not plantation derived trees, they may well be today. Our Regional Forest Agreement’s in Victoria have appeared to never cease. Point taken that if we nationally want hardwood products for industry, then plantations and agroforestry are a just another form of input. Yep forestry does play an important role to society, without plantations we would be straight back into our National Heritage before we know it. And you rightfully state that these plantations in themselves are sequestering carbon. Woody biomass from forest floors is NOT the way to go. IMO, there is no such thing as forestry waste products, what waste, nothings wasted in a closed system, its just a varying degree of distribution by vertebrates, invertebrates, fungi and the like, its about all the organisms that rely on the rhizosphere and the rapid turnover of and related to cellulose decomposition at the forest floor level. What one person calls waste through anthropomorphic eyes, i just see organic matter just in a state of flux waiting to be consumed by invertebrates and fungi. What i cant agree with you on is even if they are short-rotation plantations, they still harbour biodiversity, they sequester carbon, carbon dioxide/monoxides are produced processing the logs and the shipping of the chips across the globe, well dont get me started. I never written of the importance of biological products for human use, but when you say bio energy, i need more convincing. Please feed me more info. Interesting topic. Good stuff.
Albeit, 20 years ago I attended, out of interest an all day seminar at a well known University where the guest speakers were from Bath,England, Their topic was, ‘It’s More Environmentally Friendly To Collect Paper and Burn It for Energy Capture’ than it is to recycle it. I left incredibly convinced thats the way to go. It was basically about embodied energy use for both sides of the argument, paper collection and its processing produce way more carbon than did burning it. It was burnt in a closed chamber, very large brick building with incredibly thick walls, the scientists had devised a way of limiting only a very small amount of smoke into the atmosphere whilst transferring the heat energy to their desired source.

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GreenJam Saturday, 8 Oct 2022 at 3:32pm

thanks for the feedback sypkan and Alfred.

sypkan, I hear you and fully agree on the absurdity of transporting woodchips vast distances over oceans to support another nation's energy needs. It should all be local, and small-scale. That is my area of interest/ focus/expertise in this bioenergy arena. And yeah, I agree you gotta wonder on some of the carbon accounting/offsetting stuff. Dodginess galore I believe. I think it's been said on this thread or elsewhere before that much of the offsetting projects are just enabling large emitters to continue to be large emitters. Then there's the shadiness of some of the accounting methods associated with trading in 'existing forests' - it's all been in the media recently. I'd prefer to see it all focused on new plantings.

Alfred - I can see we would definitely have much common ground but also some divergent views on the forestry sector. There is definitely a waste problem in timber processing (e.g. sawmills) and this material could/should be better utilised - bioenergy is one good option. I fully agree on the need for woody biomass on the forest floor, I am a massive fan of that and include as much as I can get my hands on in my reveg/restoration work. That stuff is gold for ecosystem restoration. Also standing dead wood, a critical habitat structure, typically overlooked in reveg work. I'll sometimes plant a fast growing species (e.g., a eucalypt) in amongst the rainforest planting, with the full intention of killing it in 3-5 years to create that, even if only for a short number of years as it breaks down. Anyway, point is that type of material should definitely not all be removed from a forest, and definitely not for bioenergy. And you'd know the problem like this of rampant firewood collection by everyday people from forests wherever they can access them...
I could go on for quite a while, but you wanted more info/convincing - check out these reports for a start, focused on the small-scale community-based bioenergy systems I noted above. Lots of good case-studied in there. One I have long particularly liked is the BERC (2010) reference in the Ref List of the first report - great examples of exactly what I am referring to from across the globe. There are also Aus examples - check out the Beaufort Hospital in Vic.

Happy reading.

https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/cups/bioenergy/files/lidbsxymjt21xdfg.pdf

https://www.cbd.int/doc/case-studies/tttc/tttc-fao-tanzania-en.pdf

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AlfredWallace Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 2:34pm
GreenJam wrote:

thanks for the feedback sypkan and Alfred.

sypkan, I hear you and fully agree on the absurdity of transporting woodchips vast distances over oceans to support another nation's energy needs. It should all be local, and small-scale. That is my area of interest/ focus/expertise in this bioenergy arena. And yeah, I agree you gotta wonder on some of the carbon accounting/offsetting stuff. Dodginess galore I believe. I think it's been said on this thread or elsewhere before that much of the offsetting projects are just enabling large emitters to continue to be large emitters. Then there's the shadiness of some of the accounting methods associated with trading in 'existing forests' - it's all been in the media recently. I'd prefer to see it all focused on new plantings.

Alfred - I can see we would definitely have much common ground but also some divergent views on the forestry sector. There is definitely a waste problem in timber processing (e.g. sawmills) and this material could/should be better utilised - bioenergy is one good option. I fully agree on the need for woody biomass on the forest floor, I am a massive fan of that and include as much as I can get my hands on in my reveg/restoration work. That stuff is gold for ecosystem restoration. Also standing dead wood, a critical habitat structure, typically overlooked in reveg work. I'll sometimes plant a fast growing species (e.g., a eucalypt) in amongst the rainforest planting, with the full intention of killing it in 3-5 years to create that, even if only for a short number of years as it breaks down. Anyway, point is that type of material should definitely not all be removed from a forest, and definitely not for bioenergy. And you'd know the problem like this of rampant firewood collection by everyday people from forests wherever they can access them...
I could go on for quite a while, but you wanted more info/convincing - check out these reports for a start, focused on the small-scale community-based bioenergy systems I noted above. Lots of good case-studied in there. One I have long particularly liked is the BERC (2010) reference in the Ref List of the first report - great examples of exactly what I am referring to from across the globe. There are also Aus examples - check out the Beaufort Hospital in Vic.

Happy reading.

https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/cups/bioenergy/files/lidbsxymjt21xdfg.pdf

https://www.cbd.int/doc/case-studies/tttc/tttc-fao-tanzania-en.pdf

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AlfredWallace Tuesday, 11 Oct 2022 at 3:12pm
AlfredWallace wrote:
GreenJam wrote:

thanks for the feedback sypkan and Alfred.

sypkan, I hear you and fully agree on the absurdity of transporting woodchips vast distances over oceans to support another nation's energy needs. It should all be local, and small-scale. That is my area of interest/ focus/expertise in this bioenergy arena. And yeah, I agree you gotta wonder on some of the carbon accounting/offsetting stuff. Dodginess galore I believe. I think it's been said on this thread or elsewhere before that much of the offsetting projects are just enabling large emitters to continue to be large emitters. Then there's the shadiness of some of the accounting methods associated with trading in 'existing forests' - it's all been in the media recently. I'd prefer to see it all focused on new plantings.

Alfred - I can see we would definitely have much common ground but also some divergent views on the forestry sector. There is definitely a waste problem in timber processing (e.g. sawmills) and this material could/should be better utilised - bioenergy is one good option. I fully agree on the need for woody biomass on the forest floor, I am a massive fan of that and include as much as I can get my hands on in my reveg/restoration work. That stuff is gold for ecosystem restoration. Also standing dead wood, a critical habitat structure, typically overlooked in reveg work. I'll sometimes plant a fast growing species (e.g., a eucalypt) in amongst the rainforest planting, with the full intention of killing it in 3-5 years to create that, even if only for a short number of years as it breaks down. Anyway, point is that type of material should definitely not all be removed from a forest, and definitely not for bioenergy. And you'd know the problem like this of rampant firewood collection by everyday people from forests wherever they can access them...
I could go on for quite a while, but you wanted more info/convincing - check out these reports for a start, focused on the small-scale community-based bioenergy systems I noted above. Lots of good case-studied in there. One I have long particularly liked is the BERC (2010) reference in the Ref List of the first report - great examples of exactly what I am referring to from across the globe. There are also Aus examples - check out the Beaufort Hospital in Vic.

Happy reading.

https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/cups/bioenergy/files/lidbsxymjt21xdfg.pdf

https://www.cbd.int/doc/case-studies/tttc/tttc-fao-tanzania-en.pdf

Greenjam. Hi, sorry for the delay, I’ve only just accidentally found your good reply. You definitely know your stuff, I agree waste at a sawmill could easily be used for fuel. ‘Waste’ on the forest floor should stay there. But really it’s not waste as we’ve previously discussed. In fact, contrary to most peoples ideologies, forest floors, especially in the sub-tropics and more so in tropical rainforest regions are very low or poor in nutrients because of the temperature, rainfall (H2O is a solvent) and the rapid transformation of organic matter (be it from fungi, plants or animals), parasitism is at its paragon in these forests thus nutrients flow from one organism to another and are rapidly locked up into the system of life very quickly, leaving the forest floor denuded. You and I are talking the same turkey but just from different egg clutches. I’ve checked out those references very interesting stuff.
To be honest I’ve never really read enough data or documentation about bioenergy use at the forest level. Therefore my slight angst about bioenergy has mostly been generated by observing the rapid uptake of global participants willing to produce biofuels (ethanol mostly) from gross monocultures of monocotyledonous plants, mostly corn, sugar cane and other C4 plants. In nearly all instances these monocultures require the clearing of land or forests, essentially almost negating the very reason to produce biofuels in the first place. Sounds like you and I had or have similar lives in revegetation. A great field in which to work, totally rewarding physically and mentally especially when you return to site 2 years later or more and it’s achieved its primary desired outcomes with plenty of biodiversity as it enters the next phase of life. Good stuff and good to chat.

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truebluebasher Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 3:03pm

Southern Swampies had better stand back...a little further...
Outta the Blue our Big Pineapple was just partly glanced by a ray a cloudy dim lit mugginess!

Qldurrz are redirecting this precious ray of hope south to mop up yer Floods.
Tropics / Sunny / Goldie send miles of smiles & more togs & goggles if ya like!

"All Together......let's belt out a record blast of radiation to melt our southerner's record collection!"
Supanova Postcard of The Day!

Love from the Big Pineapple {:":} >-------N-S-W----V-i-c----T-a-s-s-i-e---(.....Take that La Nina.....)
Big Pineapple 1 (vs) La Nina 0

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Robwilliams Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 5:26pm

Trueblue you always play something interesting, , chuck a few tunes up when you wish, bad 24hrs for some less fortunate. love your work, my tunes were a bit dark due to my comments yesterday. Don't see it drying out for a while and can only offer my condolences to all who are copping it or who have had enough from the clouds. to all effected heads up and keep pushing through. Sydney had recorded 2200mm this year prior to this weather event only the second time on recorded record, Don't know what the falls have been like the last 24hrs but it looks pretty bad with more expected. Here's to dryer conditions, but know that don't change much for those effected in the states you've mentioned. Truebluebasher's spreading of sunshine will be needed.

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AlfredWallace Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 5:43pm
Robwilliams wrote:

Trueblue you always play something interesting, , chuck a few tunes up when you wish, bad 24hrs for some less fortunate. love your work, my tunes were a bit dark due to my comments yesterday. Don't see it drying out for a while and can only offer my condolences to all who are copping it or who have had enough from the clouds. to all effected heads up and keep pushing through. Sydney had recorded 2200mm this year prior to this weather event only the second time on recorded record, Don't know what the falls have been like the last 24hrs but it looks pretty bad with more expected. Here's to dryer conditions, but know that don't change much for those effected in the states you've mentioned. Truebluebasher's spreading of sunshine will be needed.

Robwilliams. Hi mate. Are you ok ? I’ve not seen you post such dark matter previously. Maybe a sodden atmosphere outside contributed to a solemn thought process yesterday, you are always so up and about. I enjoy all your stuff as I’ve previously mentioned, you are usually upbeat and positive, a good trait to have. Keep on keeping on !!!!

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Robwilliams Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 6:56pm

Cheers Alfred all good. I was frustrated at the lack of compassion in another thread. It stems from a past period of life and sometimes expresses itself in a way that others find alarming. I should have said nothing but it's a work in process when I see bullshit. It doesn't make me right, it's just how I express the frustration at what I personally see as utter nonsense. But looking at it today, who am I to judge? I was maybe a bit loose but hope a few people see the funny side.

I often use allot of what people who know me would refer to dark humour, pop and music culture reference to get my points across rather than writing. It has its place and maybe I should have held my tongue. But it's who I am and I just express my self as I feel it. I am no longer bothered by how some people take it, but I do understand I can be somewhat alarming or even offensive.

Thanks for your concern, many people are doing it tougher today and my thoughts have been with them today. As I say after any set back, verbal explosion, or decisive event, onwards and upwards. Positive vibes but hold your ground whenever you feel the need, regardless of what others think and take care of your little people. You never know what happens in the streets or behind closed doors. Compassion is one of the most fundamental essentials to a healthier life. Regardless of situation and sometimes not always pretty, for reasons somewhat known or misunderstood. The modern world needs love but as always there is, the ying and the yang of life. It's what keeps it interesting. The thresholds and tolerances for bullshit are different on so many levels for so many people through out society.
For I am only human, just as are, all who openly express themselves, From all walks of life. wherever and whatever that may be. The world wont stop, and the clock keeps ticking,

Regardless iv'e had a pretty good run and enjoy what others contribute to the forums, but its and art on knowing when to pull away. I come to swellnet to enrich my surfing experience. I never know whats around the corner, thats the beauty of it, but I will be the first to admit some of the topics are wide open. And I have contributed to that good and bad. Offensive or not. Don't let it get to you and do it your way. You are an invaluable source of information to those that are interested in what you choose to represent. I will be following but am going to test my self and see if I can withhold from making a comment on many issues due to self interest at this point. I have enjoyed it all. Cheers to all who have contributed something positive and kept it honest, happy surfing, I'll be lurking "yowie"
See you out there in the blue, bush or burbs best wishes to all who have taken care of me over the years and left a mark. Always go your own way and rise above what confines you. We are the future just as we are the past.


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AlfredWallace Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 6:51pm

Robwilliams. Good on ya. I’m never bothered by what others think of me or my views, couldn’t care less. Skin as thick as two crocodiles.
As you say, be yourself.

Robwilliams's picture
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Robwilliams Friday, 14 Oct 2022 at 7:23pm

Damnnn the live version at wembly is better, ha ha and go you underdogs! see you out there

flollo's picture
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flollo Saturday, 15 Oct 2022 at 8:01pm
blackers's picture
blackers's picture
blackers Sunday, 16 Oct 2022 at 11:45am
flollo wrote:

Any thoughts about this one https://www.inceptivemind.com/aeromine-bladeless-wind-turbines-designed-...

Looks interesting. Would like to see some data on how effective they are in real world situations.
Doesn't seem a leap to adapt the design to adjust to prevailing wind direction rather than being fixed as per current design.

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truebluebasher Thursday, 20 Oct 2022 at 1:07am

Qldurrz acknowledge La Nina Flood Assist is drying up.
We see NSW now Tas / Vic denying many claims...
Qld has an obligation to step up and lay out the full program guide.

https://insurancecouncil.com.au/resource/insurance-council-declares-sign...

Australia Unites Red Cross Celeb Flood Appeal Telethons are no longer on the Tube?
https://www.redcross.org.au/media/releases/2022/qld-and-nsw-floods-recov...
https://www.hit.com.au/story/australian-music-legends-are-teaming-up-for...

tbb will example wot the front of La Nina should look like to those joining the rear end.
All Payments are restricted by Average Wage & or No Insurance + Cancel other Govt Payments
Fed Handouts are the same Nationwide...depends on States plugging in yer Post Code.
Disaster Recovery Payment $1,000 + Allowance $1,000 > Job seeker / Youth allowance

Qld did extend Fed Rental Scheme for Flood Victims...(Possible 50/50 pre election deal!)
Note at the time Qld was cut outta the Fed / NSW Flood Assist Pack.
Relates to resourcing Prisoners / Disabled / DV / Emergency Rentals
Bond Loan > 2 wks free Rent > 75% assist for 6 months or until work resumes
Essential Services Grant $200 inspection + $4,200 Reconnect
Household Contents Grant $1,765 Essential / $5,300
Structural Assistance Grant $50,000

Homes Buy Back (History : Grantham 110 landswap)
Qld Govt : $741m / 500 homes = 4,973 applications
Buy Back 213/529 > Raising 1,387 > Retro Fit 1,904
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/96242

Qldurrz are happy to share #1 swellnet exclusive > most ambitious Flood Assist Package in Oz History.

Now we can move on to next La Nina impacted State NSW.
Rental assist is a straight up $6,000 / person (BUT!) This barely covers Bond in a tight market.
Down the line dregz > Reality sets in...11,700 applied for rental assist 64% were knocked back!
To date only 17% of NSW Flood victims were approved...Now Expired! (Bloody Vicious!)

Household / Essential Replace (Eg: Med Aids) + Safety Assessment $ 5,000
Restoration / Essential Items - Repairs (Eg: Oven / Fridge) $ 15,000
Replace ( Floors / Walls ) $20,000

Just repeating that these are for uninsured low income.

{Pause}

tbb doesn't mean to sound so dire as this report is meant to assist...tbb does need a hand...
Gonna intro a few real caring types that actually assist all equally to the best of their ability.
tbb searched long & hard but can't find any equivalent to these resources in Vic !
Flooded Victorians need to get up to speed to get their game on to take on Dan!

These sites cover all the little freebies in between that make life worth living...like food & such.
Help with Legals / Tax / Insurance / Banks / Telcos / Power / Waste / Childcare / Pets / Health / Clothes
tbb swears it is the wake up call that Vic needs...yes! Right Now! Get onto this! Do not miss out!
https://www.ncoss.org.au/sector-hub/sector-resources/flood-relief-assist...
https://thriving.org.au/what-we-do/2022-qld---nsw-flood-disaster-response

Important Lesson for Victorians...
Most NSW Flood Victims lost Essential I.D. / Receipts in the Flood...(100% Essential for Claims)
Anyone mounting Govt claims needs all their shit in order...(Do Not Throw out Receipts / Full I.D)
You lose that 20 year Old Passport or Last years Tax or last Month's Pay Slip...[ Computer Says No ]

Vic Flood Emergency Temporary Rental Scheme...is not rebated or upfront Payment but Temporary.
(1) Mickleham 1,000 bed Centre of National Resilience
(2) Caravan Parks
(3) Hotel Accommodation
Hint : Temporary = (Usually 16 weeks) or until next Covid Wave...Yikes!
This allows for Shortage of Trades to access Homes for Utility Safety & or Emergency repairs / Mould.

Vic Essential Relief $580 / $290 child may apply to all income if it concerns prescribed Med aids.
tbb swears most pov re-establishment payments freeze or boomerang back to the start or Word / PDF.
https://recovery.serviceconnect.gov.au/service/emergency+re-establishmen...
Happy to share the main frame Vic Emergency Hardship/ Re-Establishment Payments up to $42,240
https://services.dffh.vic.gov.au/personal-hardship-assistance-program
https://u-ause-wa-cphap.azurewebsites.net/
There is no detail as each uninsured low income client is granted an INDUE Emergency Welfare Card.
Important : Those with "Expired" Bush Fire Emergency Cards will be topped up from existing amount!

Crew can see how the resource gets thinner as La Nina kicks in.
Floods are winding back from Vic to NSW & back to Qld & few will be half as lucky on return leg!
The truth is hidden as with the Health Crisis...
Google : { Victorian Xmas Flood Appeal Telethon } Maybe?
tbb proudly & often assists Homeless Vic families for a long while now & yes...this week, very thankful!

NSW / Tas / Vic Flood - Salvos Xmas Appeal...see...magic happens! Shh!
https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/need-help/disasters-and-emergencies/

Tas Emergency Flood Payments $250/$125 kids + Emergency Accom' + Home Assist
https://www.premier.tas.gov.au/site_resources_2015/additional_releases/d...

Qldurrz are Happy to help Vic Cousins...luv to put ya up at Xmas...as usual. Wish you were here!

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak Sunday, 23 Oct 2022 at 4:02pm

Already flooding in Byron , next 48 hours aren’t looking good for northern rivers, Lismore is farked again.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Sunday, 23 Oct 2022 at 4:05pm

We haven't ended up getting much from it down here. So far.
Soil is very wet though, lots of worms & organic matter through it.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Sunday, 23 Oct 2022 at 5:18pm

Completely sodden and waterlogged here.

This is October.

We are seriously screwed if we this presages another wet La Niña summer.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno Sunday, 23 Oct 2022 at 5:38pm

Just out of interest, far west Vic and the Coonawarra, north from Adelaide and top of Eyre peninsula - never seen it so green and have done many runs. South WA looked green too, though not to the same extent. Midwest reminded me of what late winter/spring should look like.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig Sunday, 23 Oct 2022 at 7:58pm

Yep it's incredible to see eh! The ground out there, even under clear skies and dry winds sees moisture rising up to the top through the sand. It's all moist and heavy in the mornings.

seeds's picture
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seeds Monday, 24 Oct 2022 at 12:02am

Not after decades of marriage! Boom tish!! Or any time of day to be honest.

Craig's picture
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Craig Monday, 24 Oct 2022 at 9:16am

Former CEO "Rob Vertessy says there was a ‘baked-in cautiousness’ in the bureau about discussing climate change under the Coalition."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/24/law-governing-bur...

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Robwilliams Friday, 4 Nov 2022 at 8:00pm
AlfredWallace's picture
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AlfredWallace Friday, 4 Nov 2022 at 9:43pm
Robwilliams wrote:

abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-04/forest-giant-blue-gum-tree-latham...

Hi Robwilliams. Nice post my friend. Been absent of late, just got home today from 10 nights at Lances Right on Sipora, Mentawai . Non-stop waves of all sizes for the entire stay.

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Robwilliams Friday, 4 Nov 2022 at 10:39pm

epic to hear. thought it was worth posting, something special. A little greater than my will power and worth celebrating;) Quite an amazing photograph I thought. 500yrs old, I felt insignificant and humbled to old mother nature once again. A beautiful and incredible tree. all the best.