The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

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bluediamond Sunday, 28 Nov 2021 at 2:39pm

Great stuff Brutus. This is exactly what we've been banging on about. Embracing the culture!! Its not closing a gap, which implies lack, its creating unity, which implies growth...moving forward!
Would love to hear it sung in native tongue dependant on region too. There's alot that could happen in this space that would hold massive symbolism.

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zenagain Sunday, 28 Nov 2021 at 3:28pm

Read that early this morning and agree, No objections from me to make the change to the anthem. It always brings a tear to my eye when Julie Anthony belts out AAF. I'd love to hear her sing it in the native lingo too.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 28 Nov 2021 at 4:21pm

Love it and agree a verse in native tongue would be best.

Hey brutus or anyone you got a copy of Sik Joy?? There was a great track in it about songlines really simple but lyrics that said it all, love someone to post here ...

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udo Sunday, 28 Nov 2021 at 6:08pm

Sik Joy - full movie is on Utube

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brutus Tuesday, 30 Nov 2021 at 5:11pm
GuySmiley wrote:

Love it and agree a verse in native tongue would be best.

Hey brutus or anyone you got a copy of Sik Joy?? There was a great track in it about songlines really simple but lyrics that said it all, love someone to post here ...

Have you ever read Song lines?

the Sik Joy movies I think Dick Hoole still has them.

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brutus Tuesday, 30 Nov 2021 at 5:14pm

David Dalaithngus , One man who changed our World and the positive contribution he has made to Australia's Film Industry....a National Treasure.......

https://www.theage.com.au/culture/movies/a-rock-star-trailblazer-who-was...

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 30 Nov 2021 at 6:16pm
brutus wrote:

David Dalaithngus , One man who changed our World and the positive contribution he has made to Australia's Film Industry....a National Treasure.......

https://www.theage.com.au/culture/movies/a-rock-star-trailblazer-who-was...

Agree brutus, a very sad day, David’s gentle and culturally generous on screen presence showed us all how we can come together. A true legend.

Thanks for the reminder about that book ...

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seaslug Tuesday, 30 Nov 2021 at 9:26pm

Storm Boy on tonight NITV followed by Twelve Canoes

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seaslug Wednesday, 1 Dec 2021 at 12:57am

and a documentary on Mr David Dalaithngus on ABC

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Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 1 Dec 2021 at 7:25pm
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brutus Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:35pm

pretty bloody annoying , when we are spending $500 m on our New War memorial.....and there is only tokenism for any recognition of the Frontier Wars...which were between our First peoples and our colonial settlers........have a read and make a comment ??

https://www.theage.com.au/national/indigenous-memorial-must-recognise-di...

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bluediamond Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 3:29pm

Would personally prefer to see that $500 Mil spent on spreading Indigenous culture thoughout Australia Brutus, especially based on what you observed above. That's a bloody lot of money for a memorial, especially one with a misleading slant on the real history.

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groundswell Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 5:43pm

Sorry if i missed it but were indigenous Australians ever sent to world war 1,2 or Vietnam or Korea?
Seems like people were more racist then and they would have been through some tough times if they did.

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seeds Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 11:22pm

They volunteered. Fucked if I know why. Great service to their country which I appreciate

https://aiatsis.gov.au/explore/serving-their-country

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Supafreak Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 11:34pm

Great link seeds , thanks

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Supafreak Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 11:34pm

Great link seeds , thanks

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brutus Friday, 31 Dec 2021 at 7:18am

BD, it's a bit like telling the history of the USA without mentioning cowboys and Indians......which in turn leads to a better understanding of the affects that invasion/colonialism had and has today on all of us as a Proud inclusive nature.....without recognition and being inclusive of our History , we are just a Nation that's based on a selective political past....no wonder politicians as a profession are rated worse than prostitutes/Psychics/lawyers ...actually at the bottom of the list of least respected professions in Western Society

Politician's can't be trusted to deliver something as simple as recognizing Australia's frontier wars so we as a Nation suffer as a foundation of truth should be the basis of being an Australian , so we will remain divided/polarized and essentially still searching for our identity..

bluediamond wrote:

Would personally prefer to see that $500 Mil spent on spreading Indigenous culture thoughout Australia Brutus, especially based on what you observed above. That's a bloody lot of money for a memorial, especially one with a misleading slant on the real history.

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bluediamond Friday, 31 Dec 2021 at 8:01am

A cynical eye would consider lack of inclusion of facts as a deliberately divisive ploy by our current government Brutus. I cant imagine an obvious part of history being 'adjusted' as being accidental...not with that much money being spent on this.
Happy new year to you mate. And the rest of the SN crew. I hope 2022 is a wave filled epic one for all of you.

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bluediamond Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 6:02pm

Thought this was an interesting take on things by @evosurfer on a different thread today, but relevant to this topic. I think its important to record and document comments like this fir discussion and future reference..
@evisurfer said "im sick to death about hearing what happened over two hundred years ago its got
nothing to do with us and almost every nation in the world has been overrun by some country
or other in history so suck shit and die"

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brutus Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 6:14pm

BD , I wonder if would say the same about Anzac day, or his parents/kids/wifes/ birthday as it's only history?

bluediamond wrote:

Thought this was an interesting take on things by @evosurfer on a different thread today, but relevant to this topic. I think its important to record and document comments like this fir discussion and future reference..
@evisurfer said "im sick to death about hearing what happened over two hundred years ago its got
nothing to do with us and almost every nation in the world has been overrun by some country
or other in history so suck shit and die"

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bluediamond Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 7:12pm

Exactly Brutus. The mind boggles.

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seeds Wednesday, 19 Jan 2022 at 10:25pm

In reference to First Nations men going to war for the country. I think this might be enlightening. Heard the film maker on ABC radio on the way home tonight. Airs on SBS World Movies 25 January 7.30pm
https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2022/01/11/balang-tom-e-lewis-final-film-...

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bluediamond Tuesday, 25 Jan 2022 at 7:49pm
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Robwilliams Friday, 11 Feb 2022 at 3:49pm

on a positive note from the abc today

Critically acclaimed and world renowned Australian dance group.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-11/wudjang-not-the-past-bangarra-dan...

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Constance B Gibson Saturday, 12 Feb 2022 at 10:36am
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Constance B Gibson Saturday, 12 Feb 2022 at 5:33pm

Something to ponder in the void between holidays - Australia & ANZAC Days...

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Robwilliams Saturday, 12 Feb 2022 at 8:46pm

Voice to parliament would be a massive step in healing and moving towards a more elagaritarian political house. It would be great to see first nation people take up this role. Providing a representation that is important for First Nations people to heal and be part of the informative process that is clearly missing. They well and truly deserve a say on matters that are clearly of important nature of self representation. Can only build a more knowledgable Australia in regards to hearing and respecting this voice that has not had true representation as part of the Nations progress over the years since settlement. A great shame really. I don't know enough about this to expand on this so if anyone does. Teach us.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 10:11am
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groundswell Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 1:48pm

The ambulance paramedic that traveled with me in an ambulance trip to gero said that all the doctors and nurses in Carnarvon hospital are leaving town with indigenous people treating the staff like crap and throwing food at the doctors and nurses.
Nobody wants to live there and land prices are dropping rapidly due to the crime around town.
I think a lot of the indigenous folk were kicked out of there hometowns due to misconduct and settled in Carnarvon.
Good surf nearby though but you cant leave your car alone in the carpark with camping gear in the back.

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Constance B Gibson Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 3:05pm
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batfink Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 5:10pm

Minister for the Dark Arts. Too funny Connie. Yeah, our next PM probs, and possibly the second shortest stint in the office.

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seeds Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 7:12pm
seeds wrote:

In reference to First Nations men going to war for the country. I think this might be enlightening. Heard the film maker on ABC radio on the way home tonight. Airs on SBS World Movies 25 January 7.30pm
https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2022/01/11/balang-tom-e-lewis-final-film-...

Did anyone get to watch this? I missed it but just watched it on SBS On Demand ‘The Skin Of Others’
Learnt a lot. Reality stranger than fiction sometimes but also a sad reality in the end. Well worth a look

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groundswell Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 9:35pm

I will watch that seeds as soon as i figure out how to register to sbs on demand.

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seeds Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 9:52pm

Hahaha don’t swear as much as I did.
You can do it groundswell

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groundswell Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 10:18pm

there's another good movie on sbs on demand with Christian Slater, gary oldman and a tonne of other good actors about the dungeons of Alcatraz, watched it briefly at a mates place who had SBS on demand figured out..will watch that too.

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Constance B Gibson Sunday, 13 Feb 2022 at 11:35pm

Fuck that Hollywood plop, check out Herzog on SBS On Demand. Blow your mind.

Actually, his Australian film Where The Green Ants Dream is part of the collection.

Straighter than most...but then so's Australia.

Hmmm, I think I'll re-watch it now.

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Robwilliams Monday, 14 Feb 2022 at 7:03pm

Youth of today

Prejudice Lyrics

Arguing your point about which race is best
Think you've got some insight well it's just prejudice
And the more that you argue the more mad you get
Well I don't want to fill myself with hate like that
You're prejudice just look at you
You're prejudiced and you're gonna be judged too
You've taken your stance, you've split us apart
Let's see how many bad feelings you can start
Trying to make hatred seem real cool
Keep talking those facts you come off the fool
You're prejudice just look at you
You're prejudiced and you're gonna be judged too
Unite the race what listen
We may be the same race but we're not the same ( PREJUDICE )
You're cowards looking for someone else to blame
And you're just a few cause most are too smart
To listen to all the shit that you start

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truebluebasher Wednesday, 9 Mar 2022 at 12:11pm

Salute udo ... essential viewing...(Got yer back up ivew link & below)
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners

Qldurrz also apologize to First Nation Mob for inhumane treatment in recent times.
Crew will likely know what state sponsored abhorrent inherent racism tbb is referring to.

{ I can't keep burying young People }

Kinfolk of passed loved ones have every right to speak the truth & need not apologize.

"They're just gonna keep killing people and get away with it!"
"That's another Black Fella gone...Who cares...not gonna waste time!"
"They didn't care...not ashamed of sayin' it!"
"We feel they treat us like animals!"

4 Corners: (That's a big thing to say!)

"I'm sorry, but not really sorry ... but that's the truth!

Town
"Enough is Enough!"
"Let them know we are Human Beings!"

Oz Awarded Heart Specialist :
'It's racism! There is no other words for it...it is racism that creates this division!'
'One group of people thinking potentially they're better than the other!'

4 corners : 'Why do you think they treat you like that?'

"Because we're Aboriginals...we're too frightened to go to the Hospital...we don't go there!"

Husband : "What happened to her, shouldn't happen to anybody, you know, it's human life!
"Should've been treated right...as a Human Being..she wasn't treated as Human Being!"
"I think they didn't think that I'll take it this far...you know- Human Rights complaint + go to 4 corners."

ABC 4 Corners { Heart Failure } Man up & cry for every reason...crying right now, any human would.
Take a few Panadol & have a good lie down...
https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2203H005S00

Alternate review
https://junkee.com/doomadgee-indigenous-hospital/323802

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bluediamond Saturday, 12 Mar 2022 at 4:54pm
Robwilliams wrote:

Youth of today

Prejudice Lyrics

Arguing your point about which race is best
Think you've got some insight well it's just prejudice
And the more that you argue the more mad you get
Well I don't want to fill myself with hate like that
You're prejudice just look at you
You're prejudiced and you're gonna be judged too
You've taken your stance, you've split us apart
Let's see how many bad feelings you can start
Trying to make hatred seem real cool
Keep talking those facts you come off the fool
You're prejudice just look at you
You're prejudiced and you're gonna be judged too
Unite the race what listen
We may be the same race but we're not the same ( PREJUDICE )
You're cowards looking for someone else to blame
And you're just a few cause most are too smart
To listen to all the shit that you start

https://youtu.be/h4PSccRWufA

I'm not exactly sure the context of the reason's for posting this vid Rob, but i like this song better. It aint rocket science right?

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Robwilliams Saturday, 12 Mar 2022 at 9:51pm

The Oils, Ive never seen them live but have always wanted to. The last tour I hear. (sold out here) Should be epic. Great Australian act. I never really hit the biggest acts as prices went higher. I saved but missed some epic shows. The funny thing is Youth of today are actually a straight edge band that was popular way back. As with the Oils, they play about allot of relevant punk stuff even if you are not that way inclined. The whole movement as you know was pretty driven until it self imploded and became saturated. I generally like the punk or whatever ethos of DIY and just do it. It still survives and has it's die hards and own movements.

Punk rock actually introduced me to the concept of unity and diversity funnily enough. Before that it was distortion, riffs and total chaos. Allot of the pre and cold war era bands world wide left a mark. I enjoy the socially conscious idea etc. (political music)

Artists are so important in creating positive change in times like these, whatever the art. I think conscious music always has a audience, Just like the Oils. They stood for something , people could relate and let go at the shows. Covid has effected music so much, I miss the raw energy and passion from punters and performers.

As much as the three cord structure is dismissed in punk I think what it has stood for is timeless. Racism and prejudice in my world has effected my friends dearly. They suffer every day I let it slip or choose to look away.
Lyrics from Youth of today and other bands call it out. They took a stand. Stood for something and made a difference to what mattered to them. I respect that even if I don't follow their scenes to a T.

I have a feeling we are going to see more political music as we have allot of political and social issues happening at the moment. It's up to us and the current Youth of today in how we wish to represent that and through what medium. Take a fucking stand and choose to be a part of the healing. Or get out of the fucking way.

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seeds Saturday, 12 Mar 2022 at 10:42pm

Saw them in 1990 as an 18 year old. Blue Sky Mining tour. Was great but their old stuff is better than their new stuff (another reference to a different shit hot Aussie band in the 90’s)
Check this Wanda Beach stuff. There is the whole set out there but I can’t find it.

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bluediamond Saturday, 12 Mar 2022 at 11:49pm

@robwilliams 'Take a fucking stand and choose to be a part of the healing. Or get out of the fucking way.'
I hear ya, but what if the healing involves staring the past in the face and confronting it. If this is what it takes, then i'm all for it and i'll support that all the way, not just a 'we need to heal and move forward' without actually realising and understanding what healing means, and what is required for the healing to take place. Big difference, and not something to be brushed over. In fact the fundamental point of the above discussions.
And yep, plenty of good punk musos, and plenty of warriors in all forms of music. Punk does hit the right spots though for sure.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 10:51am

The Oils were my fav band for a while in the late 80s period, first band i really got into after Kiss apart from rap/hiphop that i was heavily into until the late 80s

Ive seen literally hundreds of bands live and saw the Oils live in the late 90s when they were kinda uncool so venue (on the Gold Coast) wasn't real big, amazing band live, amazing musicians, would rate them in at least top twenty bands I've seen live.

But I have trouble listening to them now, songs are great but a lot of the lyrics are just really cringey more so from mid period (10 to 1) onwards and got even worse as things went on, they should have stopped at Blue Sky mining anyway.

I remember an older mate and musician saying in the 90s how political bands suck and at the time i argued the opposite, but now i get what he was saying, i hate politics in music especially when its obvious and not cryptic, i hate it when a band even talks about their political views in many cases you are going to ruin it for 50% of your audience. (if a non political band)

Im not going to diss Peter for him going into Politics though, yeah there was so many contradictions between what he had said and still says to what he did/said in politics, but to me him going into mainstream politics really showed the compromise that must be made, i disagree with pretty much all his politics now and i think he has even been very damaging in many ways to many issues, but i sill respect that he had a go.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 4:19pm
bluediamond wrote:

@robwilliams 'Take a fucking stand and choose to be a part of the healing. Or get out of the fucking way.'
I hear ya, but what if the healing involves staring the past in the face and confronting it. If this is what it takes, then i'm all for it and i'll support that all the way, not just a 'we need to heal and move forward' without actually realising and understanding what healing means, and what is required for the healing to take place. Big difference, and not something to be brushed over. In fact the fundamental point of the above discussions.
And yep, plenty of good punk musos, and plenty of warriors in all forms of music. Punk does hit the right spots though for sure.

Fully understand this point. Past history can not be ignored or erased. Nor should it when it has had the effect to the detriment of first nations people. I am ashamed we choose to ignore the realities of past history in relation to the effects we still see today. I am proud and supportive anyone doing their best to contribute to the healing and understanding of these difficult issues so many of our indigenous experience first hand. I want to see positive change for those effected. With out acknowledging or dealing the past failings we can't move to a better future for all with in Australia. Hopefully awareness and understanding is growing in relation to these issues in order to bring about change.

So many people taking a stand and trying to repair damages done. It's a long journey but it's got to be taken in order for progression to be made. Inaction, negativity unwillingness to acknowledge the truth won't get us close. It's the terrible tragedy of the colonisation of Australia. I am not proud of it. I see it ever time I see an indigenous person or friend in need living with the ramifications of this past history. . Australia united is far greater than divided. Sometimes the truth hurts but in relationship to issues faced by many. I think it must be understood in order to move forward. Don't hide it, or run from it. Acknowledge it and learn from it.

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bluediamond Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 4:06pm
Robwilliams wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@robwilliams 'Take a fucking stand and choose to be a part of the healing. Or get out of the fucking way.'
I hear ya, but what if the healing involves staring the past in the face and confronting it. If this is what it takes, then i'm all for it and i'll support that all the way, not just a 'we need to heal and move forward' without actually realising and understanding what healing means, and what is required for the healing to take place. Big difference, and not something to be brushed over. In fact the fundamental point of the above discussions.
And yep, plenty of good punk musos, and plenty of warriors in all forms of music. Punk does hit the right spots though for sure.

Fully understand this point. Past history can not be ignored or erased. Nor should it when it has had the effect to the detriment of first nations people. I am ashamed we choose to ignore the realities of past history in relation to the effects we still see today. I am proud and supportive anyone doing their best to contribute to the healing and understanding of these difficult issues so many of our indigenous experience first hand. I want to see positive change for those effected. With out acknowledging or dealing the past failings we can't move to a better future for all with in Australia. Hopefully awareness and understanding is growing in relation to these issues in order to bring about change. So many people taking a stand and trying to repair damages done. It's a long journey but it's got to be taken in order for progression to be made. Inaction, negativity unwillingness to acknowledge the truth won't get us close. It's the terrible tragedy of the colonisation of Australia. I am not proud of it. I see it ever time I see an indigenous person in need.

Beautifully written Rob. Thanks for a thoughtful response. I concur completely. Big aloha. This is the sort of humanity that is required not just on this issue, but world over. Cheers mate.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 4:22pm

Rise above

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Robwilliams Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 4:29pm
seeds wrote:

Saw them in 1990 as an 18 year old. Blue Sky Mining tour. Was great but their old stuff is better than their new stuff (another reference to a different shit hot Aussie band in the 90’s)
Check this Wanda Beach stuff. There is the whole set out there but I can’t find it.
https://youtu.be/UtKFvH9zBu8

attitude counts, wish I had a ticket. feeding the crowd one track at a time

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groundswell Sunday, 13 Mar 2022 at 5:23pm

My mate saw the oils in the 90's and said he, Peter Garrot made an excellent speech about how Aussies should be buying more Aussie music. This was when Nirvana, smashing pumpkins and greenday were at their peak and grunge fashion was mimicked here. I heard even Courtney love came out to Australia and wrote off the audience for being clones of americans.
My mate never bought any music from the USA again. Mostly aussie music such as crowded house etc.
I on the other hand didnt see the speech and continued to buy lagwagon, strung out, nofx and many other US punk records, then dance music from Europe or Detroit.
Still i think Peter garrot is a great speaker and has a good attitude towards supporting aussie bands.

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022 at 7:58pm