Climate Change

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blowfly started the topic in Wednesday, 1 Jul 2020 at 9:40am

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blindboy Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 5:00pm

Then there is this;
Screen-Shot-2021-10-26-at-4-53-29-pm

Anyone care to extract anything meaningful from that conglomeration beyond the unreality of its CCS expectations.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 5:01pm

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blindboy Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 5:13pm

But this is probably more important and highlights Scotty's real motivation......preventing his fossilised mates getting stuck with stranded assets.

Screen-Shot-2021-10-26-at-5-10-16-pm
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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 5:40pm

Problem with that idea BB is this whole idea of Fossil fuels vs Renewable companies is a myth, many big FF companies are heavily invested in renewables.

Take for example evil Adani who already holds the tittle of the largest solar energy provider in the world and is set to triple that capacity in the next 4 years.

Source of graphic https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2020/09/09/adani-becomes-worlds-la...

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Vic Local Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 5:45pm

Scumo's climate change plan starts and stops at a handful of slogans, pissing away tax dollars to keep the lunatic Nats happy, and a shiny new pamphlet.
This POS PM has more chance of establishing a strong federal ICAC than doing anything meaningful to slow climate change.
This government is an absolute rabble.

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adam12 Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 7:13pm

Thrilled to announce that after a decade or so thinking about it, I am here to declare my plan to take both the WSL mens title and the Triple Crown in 2050. I will be continuing my current training regime of bongs, only going right and only surfing my local lineups under six feet and am relying on future improvements in surfboard technology and cell regeneration to get me in the shape I need to take on the worlds best around 2045 or thereabouts. Anyone who thinks I won't do it is just talking me down which is, frankly, unAustralian. That is my plan, called The Adam12 Way. Brochure available soon.

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etarip Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 7:30pm

That made me laugh a12…
Well played sir

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adam12 Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 7:35pm

Forgot to mention an important part of The Adam12 Way moving forward is that until 2030 I will be only riding the same board Tony Abbott rides, which I believe is a 9'6" McTavish 2+1.

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Roker Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 7:51pm

Mmm. An ‘in principle’ commitment? Not talkin’ you down or nuthin’.

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Vic Local Tuesday, 26 Oct 2021 at 10:28pm
Roker wrote:

Mmm. An ‘in principle’ commitment? Not talkin’ you down or nuthin’.

but scumo had a shiny new brochure and a few new slogans.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 12:20pm

Predicated these comments weeks ago, it was always going to be the reaction from some whom it would be impossible to keep happy.

The hard reality is technology is a huge factor in reducing emissions, without it it would be impossible to get to zero emissions.

Personally im very happy with LNP current stance, it will ensure some swing voters are kept happy on this issue, and any against will vote for parties like one nation or united Australia party with preferences going to LNP anyway, it also forces Labor to go a little more radical which will scare off a few swing voters off from off and any wanting more radical action will vote labor or greens anyway.

Good to get it all out the way now too, rather than closer to an election.

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 1:05pm

Interesting facts and comments .

My comment " It's not easy being GREEN " .

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/green-energy-bubble-unrealistic-expecta...

Summary
BlackRock’s CEO recently admitted that, despite what many are opining, the green energy transition is nearly certain to be inflationary.

Even though it’s early in the year, energy prices are already experiencing unprecedented spikes in Europe and Asia, but most Americans are unaware of the severity.

To that point, many British residents being faced with the fact that they may need to ration heat and could be faced with the chilling reality that lives could be lost if this winter is as cold as forecasters are predicting.

Because of the huge increase in energy prices, inflation in the eurozone recently hit a 13-year high, heavily driven by natural gas prices on the Continent that are the equivalent of $200 oil.

It used to be that the cure for extreme prices was extreme prices, but these days I’m not so sure. Oil and gas producers are very wary of making long-term investments to develop new resources given the hostility to their industry and shareholder pressure to minimize outlays.

I expect global supply to peak sometime next year and a major supply deficit looks inevitable as global demand returns to normal.

In Norway, almost 2/3 of all new vehicle sales are of the electric variety (EVs) – a huge increase in just over a decade. Meanwhile, in the US, it’s only about 2%. Still, given Norway’s penchant for the plug-in auto, the demand for oil has not declined.

China, despite being the largest market by far for electric vehicles, is still projected to consume an enormous and rising amount of oil in the future.

About 70% of China’s electricity is generated by coal, which has major environmental ramifications in regards to electric vehicles.

Because of enormous energy demand in China this year, coal prices have experienced a massive boom. Its usage was up 15% in the first half of this year, and the Chinese government has instructed power providers to obtain all baseload energy sources, regardless of cost.

The massive migration to electric vehicles – and the fact that they use six times the amount of critical minerals as their gasoline-powered counterparts –means demand for these precious resources is expected to skyrocket.

This extreme need for rare minerals, combined with rapid demand growth, is a recipe for a major spike in prices.

Massively expanding the US electrical grid has several daunting challenges– chief among them the fact that the American public is extremely reluctant to have new transmission lines installed in their area.

The state of California continues to blaze the trail for green energy in terms of both scope and speed. How the rest of the country responds to their aggressive take on renewables remains to be seen.

It appears we are entering a very odd reality: governments are expending resources they do not have on weakly concentrated energy. And the result may be very detrimental for today’s modern economy.

If the trend in energy continues, what looks nearly certain to be the Third Energy crisis of the last half-century may linger for years.

Some extra detail re China

Due to exploding energy needs in China this year, coal prices have experienced an unprecedented surge. Despite this stunning rise, Chinese authorities have instructed its power providers to obtain coal, and other baseload energy sources, such as liquified natural gas (LNG), regardless of cost. Notwithstanding how pricey coal has become, its usage in China was up 15% in the first half of this year vs the first half of 2019 (which was obviously not Covid impacted).

Comments re Green Energy minerals .

As one of the planet’s leading energy authorities Daniel Yergin writes: “With the move to electric cars, demand for critical minerals will skyrocket (lithium up 4300%, cobalt and nickel up 2500%), with an electric vehicle using 6 times more minerals than a conventional car and a wind turbine using 9 times more minerals than a gas-fueled power plant. The resources needed for the ‘mineral-intensive energy system’ of the future are also highly concentrated in relatively few countries. Whereas the top 3 oil producers in the world are responsible for about 30 percent of total liquids production, the top 3 lithium producers control more than 80% of supply. China controls 60% of rare earths output needed for wind towers; the Democratic Republic of the Congo, 70% of the cobalt required for EV batteries.”

In several of the newsletters I’ve written in recent years, I’ve pointed out the present vulnerability of the US electric grid. Yet, it will be essential not just to keep it from breaking down under its current load; it must be drastically enhanced, a Herculean task. For one thing, it is excruciatingly hard to install new power lines. As J.P. Morgan’s Michael Cembalest has written: “Grid expansion can be a hornet’s nest of cost, complexity and NIMBYism*, particularly in the US.” The grid’s frailty, even under today’s demands (i.e., much less than what lies ahead as millions of EVs plug into it) is particularly obvious in California. However, severe winter weather in 2021 exposed the grid weakness even in energy-rich Texas, which also has a generally welcoming attitude toward infrastructure upgrading and expansion.

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blindboy Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 1:14pm

That's what happens when governments spend decades ignoring the evidence and abandoning all attempts at good governance. Thank you Donald, thanks Obama, thanks Tony, particularly warm congratulations to Scotty for an outstanding and unparalleled effort in obfuscation and do nothingism, and a special mention for good old Boris for remaining cheerful while buggering things up .

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Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 1:34pm

Oi, what about this 'freedom fighter'?

https://junkee.com/malcolm-roberts-circumcised/313051

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 1:45pm

The Don and Tony were not around that long BB .

I think you need to go back further to a least 1990 . A transition to Green takes a long time . Obama , Bush , Clinton , Bush Snr ( 4 years ) in the states . Rudd ,Gillard ,Rudd, Howard , Keating , Hawke .

But you are right . The move to a Green Transition is in a shambles at the moment . No wonder Scomo has no idea what to do . Neither does anyone else .

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adam12 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 2:46pm

Indo"Personally im very happy with LNP current stance, it will ensure some swing voters are kept happy on this issue, and any against will vote for parties like one nation or united Australia party with preferences going to LNP anyway, it also forces Labor to go a little more radical which will scare off a few swing voters off from off and any wanting more radical action will vote labor or greens anyway.

Good to get it all out the way now too, rather than closer to an election."

Indo the reason we are all in this mess and Australia is way behind other developed countries is because the issue is framed in terms of the electoral cycle here, just like you have done. The future of the animal kingdom which includes us primates is a bigger, more pressing issue than who scores points against Labor. This is the attitude that will see the PM and all of us humiliated at Glasgow. It achieves nothing. The LNP you support are a reactionary, radical libertarian-leaning group of corrupt politicians who act for the fossil fuel industries and billionaires. They are not conservatives. They dismantle the foundations of democracy and the Westminster system to suit their agenda, that is not conservatism.
What you think you support is not what it seems or promotes itself as. They are conning you and many other Australians.

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GreenJam Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 2:56pm

Hutchy - cultural burning, I guess it is a more contemporary term for 'traditional Indigenous burning regimes'. It's going on in places already, and is reportedly having some success in reducing wildfire intensity and/or largely stopping wildfires in their track. But I'm not aware of any hard science confirming that, havent looked actually, but no doubt some academics out there will be pursuing it.

Gragagan - yeah, the widespread thinning will be a big job. For starters, governments (e.g. QLD, Vic, now WA) will have to reverse their wrongful decisions to lock up (convert to National Park) so many formerly productive State Forests. Once the timber resource is again available, investors would be attracted. This has to be a big part of the long-term carbon solution - lock up that carbon in long-term timber products, use some for wood-based bioenergy, and put a heap back into the ground as biochar. Surely a far better option than seeing it all go up in smoke...

note that I'm certainly not advocating for open slather on all forests - we absolutely need large largely untouched 'wilderness' areas. But for much of the rest, I advocate for an integration of conservation and production, sensible forest management for all its inherent values. That means that yes, Koalas and timber production can coexist

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 3:09pm

Adam - my post above shows most countries are struggling with the green transition . Most of them have 4 year electoral cycles . China doesn't and they are in the worst position at present .

As I said its not easy being green . Now that the green policies are causing inflation we will see what the majority think about it . It is easy to say , much harder to do .

The transition takes decades .

Greenjam - sensible views . The aboriginals would have perfected the art of regular controlled burning I think . Very much incentivised to protect the environment , fauna and flora . There must be some records of their practices . I will have a look .

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 3:15pm

Greenjam - There is heaps of literature on this . Not only in Australia .

There would be different practices for different places and climates .

Eg .Indigenous fire management involves the lighting of 'cool' fires in targeted areas during the early dry season between March and July. The fires burn slowly, reducing fuel loads and creating fire breaks. Not all the area is burnt, with the end result a mosaic of burnt and unburnt country.

Obviously it is not the dry season in Vic in March-July .

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adam12 Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 3:42pm

Hutchy, big boy, my old mate, the fucken UK Tories are going to Cop26 with 78% for 2035 enshrined in law, British conservatives! We are going with your mate Tony Abbott's plan for mid 20% from 2015 based on land clearing reductions that had nothing to do with the federal Libs. It's a crock of shit. Australia could and should be leading the world in this except your mob, the LNP are a pack of crooks, fucken drunkards, sociopaths and little Napoleans. We could do way better but too many rich cunts in this joint make way too much money fucking the planet to give a fuck. If it's too hard for them then get out of the fucken way and let someone with the balls take it on. As you can tell, I am in a good mood at the moment, my fucken car won't start and I want to go for a quick surf. Talk to you soon!

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stunet Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 4:17pm

"Why is the same modeller that claimed Labor’s climate policies would cost the economy $542 billion and 150,000 in job losses, and who was criticised for failing to account for the economic benefits of taking action while overestimating the cost of renewables, now finding $2000 benefits for all Australians from the Coalition’s so-called plan?" 

Scott Morrison may have yesterday made a mockery of Australians with his modelling-free, policy-deficient, assumption-heavy, technology-reliant “plan” to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, but today the shoe is on the other foot. Ridicule has been widespread (“laughable”, “embarrassing”, “a joke”), and critics agree that the plan is unlikely to stand up at the COP26 climate talks, for which the PM departs on Thursday. Morrison and Energy Minister Angus Taylor this morning bluffed their way through media rounds, in which even breakfast TV hosts labelled it “more of a prayer than a policy”. Morrison, however, insisted he was “not embarrassed” by the criticism, and it’s clear he believes his strategy of turning this into an economic debate between Labor and the Coalition (with no small help from the writers at The Australian and the AFR) will work on the voters that matter. But despite the PM’s booming confidence that his scheme is economically sound, the government is still yet to publish the evidence upon which its claims are based – including the assertion that it will leave Australians $2000 better off by 2050, and create up to 62,000 new mining and industry jobs. Journalists have continued asking after the elusive modelling, which the government has also refused to release in the Senate and in estimates, claiming public interest immunity, with Taylor and Morrison updating yesterday’s “eventually” to “a later time” and “at the appropriate time”. The plot thickened in today’s Senate estimates, where Treasury secretary Steven Kennedy revealed that his department hadn’t done any climate-related modelling “at least for the last few years”. So where is this supposedly incredible modelling? Who put it together, and why wasn’t Treasury properly involved? And when exactly will be an “appropriate” time to release it to the public, if not now?

ABC News Breakfast host Michael Rowland’s efforts to get a straight answer from Taylor about when he would release the so-called modelling were admirable – and the responses very telling. “Why the secrecy about the modelling behind yesterday’s plan?” Rowland asked. “There’s no secrecy,” Taylor responded. “When will you release the modelling?” Rowland asked, half a dozen times, with Taylor alternating between “the outcomes of the modelling are laid out clearly” and “the detail of the modelling will be released at an appropriate time”, while continually throwing shots at Labor. Similar efforts were made in Question Time, to much the same effect. Shadow energy minister Chris Bowen asked the PM why Treasury wasn’t involved in the modelling, and why he wouldn’t release it. “It will be released in the next couple of weeks,” Morrison replied, noting that the modelling had been done by the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources (with assistance from Treasury), but failing to answer why he couldn’t release it. (McKinsey & Company, where Taylor was a partner between 1994 and 2001, was also involved, the AFR reports, while the Liberal-aligned modeller used to attack Labor policies was hired to “verify” it, Renew Economy reveals.) Labor leader Anthony Albanese asked Morrison if he would table the modelling, but Morrison merely repeated his claim that it would be released in the next few weeks (“I’ve made that very clear,” he blustered). He then launched into an attack on Labor (for which he was repeatedly called out by Speaker Tony Smith) and uttered confusing boasts about what his modelling shows (then why not release it?). Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce failed to answer questions about whether he had seen the modelling in question, referring instead to different modelling (“the modelling seems pretty good,” he said, twice), and implying Labor was showing an insulating lack of faith in the experts. The entire exercise was reminiscent of the Coalition’s earlier refusal to release Doherty Institute reopening advice, seemingly only because Labor was asking for it.

But is there something more suspicious about this latest round of pig-headed secrecy? It’s hard to understand why the government wouldn’t want to release modelling that proves such wonderful outcomes from net zero by 2050, if it is sound. But it’s also hard to understand how models could even make such predictions, what with an emissions-reduction strategy that is at least 30 per cent based on a vague combination of “global technology trends” and “further technology breakthroughs”. As George Washington University economics professor Steven Hamilton writes and argues, “What is truly laughable is that we have advanced to a net-zero-by-2050 target without a single change in policy.” Especially considering such a target was previously considered economy-wrecking. What has changed? Why is the same modeller that claimed Labor’s climate policies would cost the economy $542 billion and 150,000 in job losses, and who was criticised for failing to account for the economic benefits of taking action while overestimating the cost of renewables, now finding $2000 benefits for all Australians from the Coalition’s so-called plan?

I guess we’ll find out “eventually” or “at the appropriate time”, when the government is good and ready (and whenever it decides that it’s no longer a threat to national security to release it). Maybe that will be around the same time we finally learn what trade-offs the National Party secured in return for its support. (Taylor says he can’t name them because they’re not yet approved by cabinet.) In the meantime, we can expect to hear plenty about the magical benefits of the government’s “plan”, with the Coalition having committed $12.9 million of taxpayers’ money to advertising its climate policies. The Energy Department is now investigating whether Liberal MPs breached rules by publishing such ads on their social media accounts. One thing is for sure: the Coalition’s climate “plan” will be powered by technology and lots of taxes.

ABC News Breakfast host Michael Rowland’s efforts to get a straight answer from Taylor about when he would release the so-called modelling were admirable – and the responses very telling. “Why the secrecy about the modelling behind yesterday’s plan?” Rowland asked. “There’s no secrecy,” Taylor responded. “When will you release the modelling?” Rowland asked, half a dozen times, with Taylor alternating between “the outcomes of the modelling are laid out clearly” and “the detail of the modelling will be released at an appropriate time”, while continually throwing shots at Labor. Similar efforts were made in Question Time, to much the same effect. Shadow energy minister Chris Bowen asked the PM why Treasury wasn’t involved in the modelling, and why he wouldn’t release it. “It will be released in the next couple of weeks,” Morrison replied, noting that the modelling had been done by the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources (with assistance from Treasury), but failing to answer why he couldn’t release it. (McKinsey & Company, where Taylor was a partner between 1994 and 2001, was also involved, the AFR reports, while the Liberal-aligned modeller used to attack Labor policies was hired to “verify” it, Renew Economy reveals.) Labor leader Anthony Albanese asked Morrison if he would table the modelling, but Morrison merely repeated his claim that it would be released in the next few weeks (“I’ve made that very clear,” he blustered). He then launched into an attack on Labor (for which he was repeatedly called out by Speaker Tony Smith) and uttered confusing boasts about what his modelling shows (then why not release it?). Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce failed to answer questions about whether he had seen the modelling in question, referring instead to different modelling (“the modelling seems pretty good,” he said, twice), and implying Labor was showing an insulating lack of faith in the experts. The entire exercise was reminiscent of the Coalition’s earlier refusal to release Doherty Institute reopening advice, seemingly only because Labor was asking for it.

But is there something more suspicious about this latest round of pig-headed secrecy? It’s hard to understand why the government wouldn’t want to release modelling that proves such wonderful outcomes from net zero by 2050, if it is sound. But it’s also hard to understand how models could even make such predictions, what with an emissions-reduction strategy that is at least 30 per cent based on a vague combination of “global technology trends” and “further technology breakthroughs”. As George Washington University economics professor Steven Hamilton writes and argues, “What is truly laughable is that we have advanced to a net-zero-by-2050 target without a single change in policy.” Especially considering such a target was previously considered economy-wrecking. What has changed? Why is the same modeller that claimed Labor’s climate policies would cost the economy $542 billion and 150,000 in job losses, and who was criticised for failing to account for the economic benefits of taking action while overestimating the cost of renewables, now finding $2000 benefits for all Australians from the Coalition’s so-called plan?

I guess we’ll find out “eventually” or “at the appropriate time”, when the government is good and ready (and whenever it decides that it’s no longer a threat to national security to release it). Maybe that will be around the same time we finally learn what trade-offs the National Party secured in return for its support. (Taylor says he can’t name them because they’re not yet approved by cabinet.) In the meantime, we can expect to hear plenty about the magical benefits of the government’s “plan”, with the Coalition having committed $12.9 million of taxpayers’ money to advertising its climate policies. The Energy Department is now investigating whether Liberal MPs breached rules by publishing such ads on their social media accounts. One thing is for sure: the Coalition’s climate “plan” will be powered by technology and lots of taxes.

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Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 27 Oct 2021 at 4:27pm

TL:DR?

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Robwilliams Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 1:12pm

Ever get the feeling your still being had? All the while the obvious stares us blankly down. Scomo is useless on matters that count.

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blindboy Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 1:29pm
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Roker Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 5:27pm

Why haven’t all the Christian confessions united and sent a delegation to Glasgow for COP 26? If God created the Earth, it follows that knowingly destroying it is the most mortal of mortal sins. I mean, especially if you’re a creationist, saving the planet should be your cause célèbre.

Does Christianity not accept the science?

Or has the dogma that God gave those he created in his image, Adam and Eve, dominion over nature and the right to exploitation, made this a purely secular concern for Christians? Another hill to be fought over in the culture wars. Of much lesser import, say, as our PM has pointed out, than identity politics and modern gender pronouns, which unquestionably subvert the teachings of the gospel. And theology has further developed to allow Christians to separate practical and competitive everyday mercantile actions with faith and piety. Which is would certainly help the Christian CEO of a mining company.

However Pope Francis, taking inspiration from Saint Francis of Assisi (no coincidence, the Pope’s name), has written, “Praise to you my lord through our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and governs us”, which seems to invert prior doctrine, and implies that it’s the Earth who should decide how we should act.

Perhaps then, something of a theological shift is occurring and Christianity, some of it at least, will become the real and practical progressive force on climate, garnering popular support on the road to net carbon zero.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionandethicsreport/cl...

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Constance B Gibson Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 5:30pm
Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 9:32pm

Just read an article that was scathing of Scomo .

Remember Elon Musk is offering anyone $US100m to come up with a scalable and durable carbon absorption technology . He would know that we don't have one yet . My quick comment after the suggestions .

"Clean hydrogen: Can be used to heat buildings, power factories and even run cars with no emissions"

Clean Hydrogen is unproven at the moment to provide Mega Scale energy .

"Ultra low-cost solar: Solar electricity generation at $15 per MWh "

Great but what do we do at night or when the wind doesn't blow . Peak times .

"Electricity storage: Huge lithium-ion batteries can store energy generated by solar and wind power so it can be released at peak times"

Ridiculous - They could but there is not enough Lithium , cobal , nickel , rare earths etc to cater for the worlds EV's let alone the 1000 times plus larger need for the worlds Mega Batteries that aren't even invented yet .

"Low carbon materials: Steel and aluminium made by burning hydrogen instead of coal to reduce carbon emissions ."

See above re Hydrogen . If it works it will be used in cars , planes , trains and de sal plants etc before Steel furnaces . Not in a 100 years .

"Carbon capture: The process of capturing carbon dioxide from factories and power stations and storing it underground ."

Unproven even at small scale . Even Blind Boy doesn't think it will work .

"Soil carbon: Growing more plants and trees to return carbon from the air to the soil"

Not enough room on the planet to grow enough trees . Will take 30-50 years before they are full grown . BB says its impossible .

So no absorption on the horizon and the world needs to do all of the above to get us to net zero in 2050 .

Who thinks the goal is realistic ?

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dawnperiscope Thursday, 28 Oct 2021 at 11:05pm

You’ve been winning this argument with yourself for weeks now Hutchy. We all understand current technology has limitations and challenges to overcome.
We have no choice but to back the technology as hard as we can. It’s a requirement for life on earth.
30 years ago my dad came home with a mobile phone that needed a brief case to be able to make a phone call and I was running a Commodore 64.
There’s a hell of a lot of brain power going into new technologies, they will evolve.
You sound like the smartest guy in the bicycle shop in 1921.

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Fliplid Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 7:44am

Stu said: ”Why is the same modeller that claimed Labor’s climate policies would cost the economy $542 billion and 150,000 in job losses, and who was criticised for failing to account for the economic benefits of taking action while overestimating the cost of renewables, now finding $2000 benefits for all Australians from the Coalition’s so-called plan?" 

Well, someone is definitely going to be better off. With $2.6 billion being divvied up there are going to be a few bank accounts and, dare I say, family trusts that are all the better off due to the governments generosity

http://cleanenergyregulator.gov.au/ERF/project-and-contracts-registers/c...

A closer look at who is getting paid and what is actually being paid for with this program would no doubt show up another layer of fraud like the water buybacks.

For instance, one project is increasing soil carbon with the innovative idea of "undertaking new irrigation" and the rest of the other projects are basically regrowth utilising the technique of “…assisted regeneration from in-situ seed sources (including rootstock and lignotubers).…”.

In other words, not letting the cattle in the paddock for a few years, or even just getting paid for land that is already laying idle and is unproductive anyway.

The money being spent on this scheme is likely to be just the start as the National Party and farmers were calling for even more compensation to be paid for not cutting down trees as part of the recent negotiations with the Liberals.

It’s no wonder really that infantile distractions keep getting wheeled out to the media to keep stuff like this from having too much scrutiny.

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blindboy Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 8:17am

Given the history of this government a rort is a near certainty. As always their priorities are money to the mates and buying off the punters. The dubious benefits of carbon sequestration and the difficulties in assessing it make it an ideal vehicle for their usual approach.

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garyg1412 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 8:37am

Scott Morrison must have extremely thick skin or fuck all grey matter between his ears. Watching him board the plane to fly to Glasgow yesterday to go to a meeting with some very important people with a plan hatched up in a few days on some very important issues is not going to end well.
I would compare it to a project manager on a multi million dollar construction project going to a site meeting with no construction program, no site meeting minutes and no financial reports. Just a piece of paper saying "she'll be right mate we'll finish on time". I know how that would end - the same way it's going to for Scotty. A complete embarrassing mess.

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Hutchy 19 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:05am

Dawn you even admit -"There’s a hell of a lot of brain power going into new technologies, they will evolve."

"We have no choice but to back the technology as hard as we can. It’s a requirement for life on earth."

I TOTALLY agree .

But I am a realist and admit I have no idea ( I can guess ) when these technologies will be ready , installed and working .

Who would be willing to put their credibility on the line and guarantee they WILL be ready , installed and working in 2050 ?

Easy answer - a politician , a greenie or someone who thinks they have god like predictive powers .

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indo-dreaming Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:10am
garyg1412 wrote:

Scott Morrison must have extremely thick skin or fuck all grey matter between his ears. Watching him board the plane to fly to Glasgow yesterday to go to a meeting with some very important people with a plan hatched up in a few days on some very important issues is not going to end well.
I would compare it to a project manager on a multi million dollar construction project going to a site meeting with no construction program, no site meeting minutes and no financial reports. Just a piece of paper saying "she'll be right mate we'll finish on time". I know how that would end - the same way it's going to for Scotty. A complete embarrassing mess.

Yet here he is as PM and here you are just a know it all loser dribbling shit on a forum.

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Vic Local Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:25am

"Yet here he is as PM and here you are just a know it all loser dribbling shit on a forum."
Well, Gary doesn't have powerful friends to make sure he fails upwards.
Scumo really is an amazing story. Here's a man, an intellectual nobody who has no personality, he needed to construct one with the help of a marketing team who gave him a bogan makeover. He failed miserably as a tourism CEO. He was fired due to alleged corruption. He lost preselection badly for Cook, but managed to get pre selected due to a defamatory campaign against the person who won pre-selection. He became a ruthless control freak minister, stood by his prime minister, stabbed him in the back, and managed to bag the top job because Dutton couldn't count.
The PM is middle management at best. His only real talent is knowing the right people to clear the path for him, and the fucker keeps the top job because he's happy to turn a complete blind eye to all the corrupt shitfuckery by his colleagues. The man is an absolute cvnt.

Optimist's picture
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Optimist Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:30am

Done alright through the pandemic though hasn’t he……we are still not in recession so maybe we will have some money to actually address these issues rather than make hollow promises like others who won’t back them up anyway.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:45am

"Done alright through the pandemic though hasn’t he"
Really. Like fucking up vaccine procurement, punting quarantine onto the states, and utterly failing to build a fit for purpose quarantine facility.
Shovelling out $$$ to the electorate is the easiest thing in the world for politicians to do. Scumo just hasn't done any of the hard stuff.
If Australia doesn't go into recession it will be because Scumo has loaded up the country with debt. And to make matters worse, the recent long lockdowns were so avoidable. If scumo hadn't fucked up vaccine procurement or got his shit together re quarantine, we wouldn't have had the huge outbreaks. He's a chump. worse than Abbott.

soggydog's picture
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soggydog Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 9:58am

Not to mention handing over the reins to the fossil fuel industry to “Map our economic recovery” from Covid. Gets the top job, gives it to his real boss.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 10:00am

@Vl

You can spin all the hate you like, the fact still remains he is PM the top dog only 29 others have been PM in our history, countless others have dreamed of being PM, and many others have tried but failed the most recent Bill Shorten.

He didn't get there through any faults he got there through hard work being, smart, driven and likeable to some extent. (at least for a politican)

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 10:19am
Vic Local wrote:

"Done alright through the pandemic though hasn’t he"
Really. Like fucking up vaccine procurement, punting quarantine onto the states, and utterly failing to build a fit for purpose quarantine facility.
Shovelling out $$$ to the electorate is the easiest thing in the world for politicians to do. Scumo just hasn't done any of the hard stuff.
If Australia doesn't go into recession it will be because Scumo has loaded up the country with debt. And to make matters worse, the recent long lockdowns were so avoidable. If scumo hadn't fucked up vaccine procurement or got his shit together re quarantine, we wouldn't have had the huge outbreaks. He's a chump. worse than Abbott.

The reality is from a health and economical perspective Australia has faired better than most of the world during covid.

And yeah ideally states and governments should work together.

As for debt, countries all around the world have been increasing debt due to low borrowing rates, our debt to GDP is still low compared to most countries, some here even think debt is not important and we should borrow more.

Vaccine roll out, if so easy, why didn't NZ get supplies earlier instead of at the same time as Aust?

Same deal on quarantine centres, what countries built them?

Even NZ found it not viable, maybe one could be built but in the future you would expect it would barely be used.

Anyway its looking like Australia will also have one of the worlds highest vaccine take up rates.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 10:18am

You're right ID, he is a dog.
"He didn't get there through any faults he got there through hard work being, smart, driven and likeable to some extent."
no ID, he got there due to manipulation, certainly not talent. The guy is a walking talking fuck up and I've seen many CEOs just like him. Blame shifters and credit takers. Short term thinkers who do what is best for them, not what is best for the people / organisation he's supposed to represent. Brand obsessed sociopaths, who aren't results driven (unless it's personal advancement).
This dog's entire climate change policy is designed to paper over the cracks in his shithouse coalition and limp it through to the next election. They've spent more time and effort on the frickin pamphlet and catch phrase than the actual policy. It's The Scumo Way.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 11:42am
Optimist's picture
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Optimist Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 1:15pm

Just watched the US news and it looks like Biden is going to spend up big on climate but the yanks may need electric 4x4's as there doesn't look like any money left for infrastructure maintenance. At least they are looking like they want to get cracking in the right direction on climate which is good. The Brits with the influence of Prince William should do OK as well. You would think that with solar panel factories being all robotic, Panels should be made in the same countries that are using them as its not a wages issue so why make them in China.

Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 1:42pm

Optimist - Remember that the Bank of America recently estimated $US150 Trillion has to be spent on getting the world ready for net zero in 2050 . Thats 5 trillion every year . Biden can't get his Build Back Better agenda passed which is a lot under 5 T .

He hasn't even started spending big .

I posted that the Danes have 72% EV's and their oil consumption HASN'T decreased . China has under 3% E/V's and will be a huge buyer of them . They will mostly be charged with electricity from burning gas and coal .

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garyg1412 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 1:54pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Yet here he is as PM and here you are just a know it all loser dribbling shit on a forum.

Indo a while back Zen had some supportive advice for you which I thought was pretty relevant and helpful in that it actually made sense with all the commentary that goes on around here. Being one of the more avid posters I actually agree with some of your stuff and at other times I don't , but still enjoy reading through it. This comment has me stumped though and I'm wondering where it's coming from. And I'm not referring to the "know it all loser dribbling shit on a forum bit" because I can cop that kind of criticism. After all aren't most of us like that on here - some more than others (nudge nudge wink wink.)
What gets me is your brain actually ground into gear and thought up a comment that a lowly loser like myself instead of dribbling shit should aspire to be someone like Scott Morrison or PM. Well sorry to disappoint you Indo but your thought process on this one is completely wrong. My aspiration is to be a person way better than Scott Morrison and I think about how I achieve this goal every day by the simple act of picking up my dog's shit.
Back to dribbling shit it was actually just a simple analogy of the way I see things from my perspective panning out for Scotty in Glasgow and not having a go at your political hero - just a questioning of simple business or political acumen you could say. I'll happily be corrected if he comes back a climate hero and even offer my apologies for offending you, but until then I could say go fuck yourself but I won't.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 2:09pm

Sorry it was bit of an impulsive emotional driven comment, even if we disagree i shoudnt have said what i did, i was in the wrong, my apologies.

garyg1412's picture
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garyg1412 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 2:13pm

No problem - accepted.
Now did you want to place a bet on if he comes back a hero or not???
Boags Red will do me :):)

Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 3:11pm

gary - easy question to answer but is not a hero competition . China's not there so not a real comp as the main player is MIA .

If Greta is there she wins the hero media award hands down . No one will listen to her behind closed doors . I like her !

The Left media will bag Scomo and behind closed doors the other attendees will treat him with respect .

What new achievements are you expecting from the jaunt ? So as not to get disappointed expect nothing .

Do you think they will work out who is to pay the $US 150 trillion ?

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 3:20pm

"The Left media will bag Scomo and behind closed doors the other attendees will treat him with respect"
Oh there will be a few diplomatic niceties for the camera for Scumo, but behind the scenes there will be a shit load of diplomats telling our dog leader he either does something about greenhouse gases or they will slap a carbon tariff on Australian exports.
What a fucking joke that will be on Australia. We will get a carbon tax, and other nations get to spend the money!! And when the inevitable happens the usual suspects will act all shocked and play the victim card. It's hard to imagine how anyone could fuck this up as comprehensively as Scumo and the deputy drunk.

GreenJam's picture
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GreenJam Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 3:26pm

Blindboy, you stated - 'The dubious benefits of carbon sequestration and the difficulties in assessing it...'

really? I thought you were a science man? Carbon sequestration through the types of 'regeneration' (i.e. tree-planting, assisted natural regeneration) is fact. The right tree(s) in the right place and well managed will most certainly do a good job of sequestering carbon. The only dubious aspect I see is the often held view that these areas can then just be left alone to continue the job for 100 years (which is the usual contract period). Without good management they'll just be lost to fire, and up goes all that carbon. That's already happening overseas and we'l no doubt see it here too.

And it is not at all difficult to assess the rates of carbon sequestration in forests, both above and belowground, and in natural and newly planted forests.

so, your statement is incorrect

Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Friday, 29 Oct 2021 at 4:46pm

Vic -"We will get a carbon tax, and other nations get to spend the money!! And when the inevitable happens the usual suspects will act all shocked and play the victim card. It's hard to imagine how anyone could fuck this up as comprehensively " .

You maybe right ? What time frame do you think ?

I would guess it would be within 12 months .

You are probably an international diplomate . You wouldn't be commenting on this topic if you didn't know much about it as you told me .

My common sense tells me you are wrong . China are already doing whatever they can to stuff up our exports . They are the one that counts . What exports do we make to Europe , the US or UK that will cost us big bucks ? Maybe they won't travel here ( ha ha ) ?