Climate Change

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blowfly started the topic in Wednesday, 1 Jul 2020 at 9:40am

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blindboy's picture
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blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:12pm

Bloke spends his whole life studying energy sources, supplies and distribution networks, publishes a book reviewed in the nyb link above in which he explains in gr\eat detail why nuclear will not help...then along comes our champion idiot who had no understanding of the carbon cycle, still does not understand what net zero means etc etc etc. And then has the mind fucking arrogance to express his opinion that no we really need nuclear. . Come on Hutchy solve the Quantum?General Relativity conundrum for us, you fuckwit!

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Hutchy 19 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:29pm

BB - your swearing and bullying has risen substantially . A shame .

In my experience when people like you do this they are getting desperate and have run out of sensible arguments .

What I find AMAZING is that after all your research and reading you have not ONE suggestion that can absorb CO2 . Pathetic really . Do you believe in magic or the power of positive thinking ?

You say no to trees and carbon capture and storage .

You have done a lot more work on this issue than I have but EVERYONE else gets it that if we cant absorb CO2 we wont get to ZERO without substantial pain .

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:28pm

Synthetic trees. You can construct a proxy with a sheet of limestone and a solar powered fishpond pump in your yard if you wish.

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:03pm

This is a good chart that fills in as you watch it (cool) and shows the top 10 emitters.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/978951/

US, Germany, maybe also Japan seem trending down. Chart from 2019 before corona shock. Have no idea who flourish are as a disclaimer.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:03pm
blindboy wrote:

Bloke spends his whole life studying energy sources, supplies and distribution networks, publishes a book reviewed in the nyb link above in which he explains in gr\eat detail why nuclear will not help...then along comes our champion idiot who had no understanding of the carbon cycle, still does not understand what net zero means etc etc etc. And then has the mind fucking arrogance to express his opinion that no we really need nuclear. . Come on Hutchy solve the Quantum?General Relativity conundrum for us, you fuckwit!

Wheres this link to Nuclear wont help, this sounds very strange?

Cost issues aside, even the UN have said recently.(August 2021)

"Global climate objectives fall short without nuclear power in the mix: UNECE

The urgent need to reduce emissions and slow global heating, should involve the roll-out of more nuclear power stations, regional UN energy experts argued in a new briefing on Wednesday."

Article here: https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/08/1097572

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arcadia Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:28pm

Blindboy, I assume you saw the adverb, currently....
I do support renewable energy, but the need for a sustainable retreat is due to rampant overconsumption of food, resources and energy. Agriculture, construction and production all produce significant greenhouse gasses, much of which cannot be eliminated by simply switching to renewable power. Without tackling consumption and population, global warming won't be solved.

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tubeshooter Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:31pm
Optimist wrote:

Almost Daily lately, I hear the grinding of the wood chipping machine again in some backstreet. Another city person has moved to our town and doesn’t like leaves in their gutters. That’s exactly what a new neighbour told me as he had two beautiful at least 50 year old tallowoods wiped from the face of the earth, a home to many of my bird friends and the sentinel of a few tons of carbon. With this kind of stupid rampant on earth only God can save us.

Yeah I share your pain mate. I've seen more habitat destruction in my area over the last 12 months than I've seen in 4 decades here.
Goannas have just started coming out here and they've woken up to a whole new landscape than before they bunkered down 6 months ago. Fences everywhere where there were none previously. They seem very confused. There has been quite a few ran over lately because they're following the fence lines down to the road trying to get across to their former hunting grounds.
Most locals here didn't even have fences adjacent to the bush , and if they did very few were colour bond walls , the newcomers have pretty much ended that.

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arcadia Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:43pm

Tubeshooter, that's f%&$ed.
I live in a highly urbanized environment. The only life that thrives here, apart from humans, are cockroaches, crows and sewer rats.
Do you believe you can learn a lot about a person from the company they keep?
Does this hold true on a species level?

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tubeshooter Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:04pm

"Do you believe you can learn a lot about a person from the company they keep?"
Most definitely, The companion of fools will suffer harm , he who travels with wise men shall be wise.
"Does this hold true on a species level?"
I think so.

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blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:17pm

Arcadia the problems you identify are serious and it would be great to solve them at the same time as reducing emissions. It is certainly possible ...... except for the politics. We have corrupt parasites in power in too many countries for that to happen. At the moment we are struggling to get an agreement that would reach the minimal essential reductions. Even in those countries who are relatively supportive there are powerful well funded forces seeking to undermine the agreement. To suggest, in any way, that the changes would cause inconvenience or lower standards of living would be fatal to any chance of success.

Read the material I posted earlier from nyb it explains a feasible approach.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:13am

Arcadia - Some suggestions I have just read .

"With the UK due to host the world’s annual environmental conference, COP26, in Glasgow next month, everyone’s been talking about climate change.

And there’s no doubt we all want to cut our own carbon footprint — our impact on the planet — but it’s not easy to steer the correct course between ‘greenwashing’ and denying ourselves the earth-damaging luxuries we love.

DITCH: That cotton tote bag.

SWITCH TO: Re-usable hessian.

We know that even if you use a plastic bag multiple times before ending its life as a bin liner, it is still made from fossil fuels, which are indestructible and leach toxic gasses if burnt.

The same applies to a ‘bag for life’ which uses even more plastic only to meet the same end.

More shocking still? Cotton tote bags fare worse.

A 2018 study by the Ministry of Environment and Food in Denmark found strong plastic ‘bags for life’ need to be used 37 times to offset the carbon required to make them, while each non-organic cotton tote requires 149 uses before breaking even, and an organic cotton bag needs to be used 20,000 times to offset the volume of water (in short supply in many of the countries where cotton is grown) and electricity which powers the irrigation required for cotton production.

DON’T GO VEGAN, GO LOCAL

DITCH: Foreign-grown vegetables and obsessing over organic.

SWITCH TO: Local and seasonal fruit, veg and yes, even meat.

Food represents 20 per cent of our total carbon footprint (the weight of CO2 and other greenhouse gases released as a consequence of our actions).

According to Mike Berners-Lee, a professor at Lancaster University’s Environment Centre, a meat-eater’s diet typically produces 8.2 kg of carbon and equivalent gases (CO2e) each day.

HOLIDAY WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE

DITCH: Flying.

SWITCH TO: Rail.

Of all the energy consumed in the UK, the biggest chunk is transport. A plane is the most polluting form and a train is the least.

According to Professor Berners-Lee’s book There Is No Planet B, flying from London to Edinburgh emits 128 kg, driving would emit 100 kg, but the train uses 21 kg.

If you do fly, go economy, and long-haul: it’s more energy efficient because more people are on board, and long-haul is more efficient than short hops as proportionally more energy is required for take off and landing than in the air.

CUT YOUR PET’S CARBON PAW PRINT

DITCH: Red meat.

SWITCH TO: Chicken or insects.

Pets eat around one fifth of the world’s meat and fish, and studies have found that a dog has a carbon paw print twice as big as a 4x4 car.

Scientists Robert and Brenda Vale calculated an eco rating for the average dog by working out how much land it took to generate its food.

A medium-sized dog consumes 90 g of meat and 156 g of cereal in every 300 g portion of dried dog food. That takes 0.84 hectares to generate annually.

If a 4.6-litre Toyota Land Cruiser does around 6,000 miles a year, it uses 55.1 gigajoules of energy.

That would take 0.41 hectares to produce, so the SUV’s eco footprint is less than half the dog’s."

Daily mail .

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:08am

After 13 years in power what has the Federal Government achieved on climate action? .....zilch.

https://theconversation.com/yes-australia-can-beat-its-2030-emissions-ta...

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:17am

Clooney will be a keynote speaker at the upcoming conference as will the Queen .

Before he does , he and his wife will be in Australia . He is really trying to set a good example on his choice of abode to give his speech extra clout .

"George and Amal Clooney are rumoured to have secured a palatial mansion on the outskirts of the Gold Coast for when they visit Australia in the coming weeks.

The Hollywood star, 60, is bringing his family Down Under while he films the romantic comedy Ticket to Paradise alongside Julia Roberts.

George and his wife of seven years, 43, are believed to be renting a 49-hectare estate in Tallebudgera Valley called Bellagio La Villa."

Daily Mail .

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:32am

Watch Catch22 on Stan. He acts and directs it. A bloke who can produce work of that quality is welcome to the benefits.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:52am

BB- So everyone who does anything of quality is welcome to produce as much CO2 as they want .

Is welcome to fly in a private jet whenever they want .

Is welcome to tell us other mere mortals that we have to make the sacrifices .

No wonder you don't believe in net zero CO2 by 2050 .

You have no suggestion on how we can absorb CO2 and allaud people like George who use enough CO2 in a week that a poor family of 100 would use in a year .

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Fliplid Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:58am

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velocityjohnno Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:54pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

If a 4.6-litre Toyota Land Cruiser does around 6,000 miles a year, it uses 55.1 gigajoules of energy.

That would take 0.41 hectares to produce, so the SUV’s eco footprint is less than half the dog’s."

Daily mail .

That's absolutely incredible. So by not having a dog, I could rock 2x URJ202 Landcruisers (the petrol V8, 4.6L, quite rare in Australia compared to the diesel) and have less of a carbon footprint than a dog owner? By having just 1 Landcruiser, I'm making positive change.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:58pm

Seems so johnno . I do miss my dog though .

The Landcruiser will get you to all the good surf spots and you can park on the beach ( where allowed ) .

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:19pm

Land Cruiser 13.3L per 100km
4WD hybrid RAV4 5.8L per 100km

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etarip Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:05pm

Feed the dog a mixed diet, mostly kangaroo and assorted leftovers. She’s healthy as, according to the vet. Chickens get kitchen scraps and leafy greens from the veggie garden (broccoli etc). Rest of the scraps go in the compost.
Reckon we fill a small garbage bag per week at the moment. Family of 4. Always trying to reduce further.

Anyone done the thing where you buy a cow with a few others? That’s on our list. A mate of mine on a bit of land swears by it. One cow, couple of sheep per year with the neighbours. Deep freezer and away you go.

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velocityjohnno Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:08pm

For sure Blindboy, the post was slightly in jest (you could have 4x RAV4 Hybrids). I was just a bit spun out about the doges. Etarip, yep that was about the farm kelpie's diet and they were very healthy. And yes, my wife's family had a wheat/sheep farm so the deep freezer mutton was a thing.

Still reckon the petrol Landcruiser is a useful thing if you don't use it much but occasionally need the capability. The diesel ones are more economical and are made to do the big kms touring all over the country. Edit: also, a well kept one for a long time spares the need to upgrade often, which saves lots of CO2.

Concerned surfers check these out, ex-Japan grey import Corolla Fielder hybrid wagons:
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2016-toyota-corolla-fielder-hyb...

I found 2.9L/100km here, an incredible 81mpg:
https://www.auto-data.net/en/toyota-corolla-fielder-xi-facelift-2017-1.5...

No idea on maintenance, would it be similar to the domestic hybrids or 24V system? Anyway.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:20pm

Yeh we have a Corolla hybrid it's a great car and seems to go forever on a tank.

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velocityjohnno Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:34pm

Good choice. I reckon our family are down on CO2 consumption since Corona, and it's got me questioning the need for chemical things eg blanks (a couple of beauties to finish before this though... red cedar, mmmm). Electricity prices rising means that a battery bank for the solar is nearly a 4 year payoff on money saved (that's my prerequisite for deploying funds to upgrade things ) - just as the solar was. Upgrading to gas on demand will help a bit as well from a tank, and rising gas prices increase the likelihood I find funds to do this one. Overall, it's replacing technology as one can, and being cleaner as a result. Cars are not being used half as much, but we've got through the teenage years where there's work/friends/party/learning to drive trips to and from town very often. I do want to keep a couple of classics, but they are hardly used, just maintained.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:42pm

All electric is the way to go. A heat pump is the most energy efficient way to heat a house and if you have enough panels and a big enough battery zero emissions and no usage charges. Gas produces NOx gases which are unhealthy.

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velocityjohnno Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:55pm

Cheers I'll look further into that, the Ms has mentioned the heat pump.

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san Guine Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:42pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

Cheers I'll look further into that, the Ms has mentioned the heat pump.

Can recommend the heat pump option (v quiet/v efficient). Looking into batteries at the moment

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blindboy Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:26am

Is Barnabubby Labor's most effective member of parliament?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/joyce-expects-colleagues-to-reje...

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:45am

BB - I am very surprised you posted this article !

One , people like me that don't subscribe to the SMH ( there are some ) can only see the headline and a the intro .

Two -the intro said "as the party on Sunday night asked for more time to decide on a net zero climate strategy for 2050."

You have the same position as the Nationals , FFS . No plan at the moment for absorbing CO2 and no willingness to make major sacrifices .

Amazing how things transpire , I never ceased to be amazed !

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:45am

Heard this morning that EV penetration is forecast to rise from 21% to 34% in 2030 .

Work related so no link will be provided .

Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:58am

I heard wrong - penetration now forecast to be 62% in 2030 ( previously 45% ) .

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Supafreak Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:10pm

This is pretty impressive …..,,World record: Toyota Mirai travels 1360km on one hydrogen tank
https://www.drive.com.au/news/world-record-toyota-mirai-travels-1360km-o...

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blindboy Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:50pm

Hutchy, are you a black hole? If so, you are clear evidence for the General Relativity prediction that information passing the event horizon is lost forever. In your case the event horizon seems to be about 1m from your body in all directions. Just in case I am recording my observations to pass onto the Journal Of Astrophysics.

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blindboy Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 11:56am

Paris-Glasgow 1919-2021

They say that history does not repeat but it does rhyme or echo or behave in deeply weird ways that suggest events can be connected across the space-time continuum by some kind of wormhole or general quantum weirdness that is not yet even on the horizon of our understanding. So the connection 1919-2021, Paris Peace Conference - COP 26. Opportunities to end serious fuck ups and make a better world….and if the parallels are right, if COP26 ends up with some Treaty of Versailles level cock up……….

But let's not get too far into this. Let's not assign mere coincidence into some Blue Book weirdness until it has actually unfolded. But the signs are there. Times are not normal. If truly bizarre shit is about to unfold we need to be ready. We need to stare into the void, brace ourselves and hope things are not going to become totally unwired.
I'm talking major shit here. The sun blowing us off into the dark wilderness of interstellar space. The black hole at the centre of the Milky Way sucking in the whole grand shebang in a sudden sharp in breath that drags the whole fucking galaxy beyond its event horizon, drawing it out into nanospaghetti. Shit we could be talking about the collapse of the dark matter endo skeleton holding everyfuckingthing together, unravelling the entire fabric of the universe.

But it's late and yes I am a bit stressed so maybe I'm overstating things. Probably. Almost certainly. It's been a tough day. Maniacs on the highway, weirdos in the water riding strange surf craft that rise up out of the water and float like some sort of flying saucer, all the time bouncing up and down like a demented toddler who can't quite get the hang of a trampoline. And then Barnabubby on TV, suffering an intense anxiety attack, his eyes roaming wildly around in their sockets, unable to focus on anything, stuttering and spluttering, trying to drag the rest of the world into his own personal alternate universe, in desperate need of medication, serious medication, anti-convulsants, anti-psychotics, Valium, Librium, Endone, anything capable of relieving the psychic pain, of turning off the nagging doubts tearing what's left of his soul apart on national television. Anything that will help him cling to his delusions, help stop the ever increasing understanding that he is WRONG in every sense of the word, factually, emotionally, spiritually, financially, anything that will help deaden the sense that he is hanging out on a narrow rock ledge above a thousand metre drop in a howling ice storm. Freezing? Falling?

And Scomo, anaesthetised to the eyeballs announcing, through gritted teeth and a smile capable of curdling the milk of human kindness, that everything is just fine, that he is in control Winging it, making up the shit as he goes along. No logic, no consistency, yesterday it was a party decision, now it's …… well who knows? Barnabubby’s? A toss of a coin? A quick casting of the I Ching? Any fucking thing but rational planning based on the available evidence

Yep there he is, an adult man on prime time TV, talking absolute fucking crap, unable to make the simple moral judgement that going to Glasgow with something resembling a plan acceptable to the rest of the world is THE RIGHT THING TO DO! But no, he will appease the fossil fuel parasites crawling out of their foul nests at the chance for one last grab at the money tree that they have been feeding on for decades, while we watch on in the kind of deep psychological unease that usually precedes some kind of spiritual crisis in those still in possession of a soul, and the symptoms of acute food poisoning in the rest.

But it's time to get back to the point, it's here somewhere, just give me a couple of sentences or maybe a paragraph and I'll be into it. Something to do with the Paris-Glasgow connection. Oh yeh, it's the way shit has just jumped across a century and is ready to emerge from a conveniently located wormhole. Are we ready for a replay? Are we ready to witness the whole sordid business of a bunch of world leaders washing their hands of all responsibility but self-interest and the next election. AGAIN?

H2O's picture
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H2O Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 1:06pm

Good one BB. You and Blowin share one thing in common - an ability to spin a good yarn if you turn your mind to it.

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AndyM Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 1:24pm

Kindred spirits.

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Constance B Gibson Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:00pm

Hahaha. Talk about false equivalence!

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:38pm

BB - I do feel that I am in a Black Hole whenever I read your posts and interact with you .

A feeling of dealing with someone in a parallel , upside down universe .

A comparison with Versailles and Glascow is appropriate . Two one sided meetings but hopefully Glascow won't lead to another World War .

As you point out there is no currently available absorption technology for CO2 . You are right to say planting trees and carbon capture and storage won't absorb enough . You are also right that humans will not sacrifice their current standard of living . Poorer people will also strive for a higher standard of living .

The International Energy Agency admits that most of the technology needed to get to net zero is still unproven or hasn't been invented yet . Green hydrogen at scale is hype from billionaires to enable them to get richer .

There is no such thing as emissions-free production of steel , cement , aluminium , meat , solar panels , wind mills or transport .

The current state of play means that net zero is impossible unless you have another absorption technology in mind ( which you refuse to reveal ) . Glascow will be just another jaunt for the rich and mighty and achieve nothing of substance .

I am very disappointed in our PM . Trying to turn green for a few votes . In 1974 Bob Menzies wrote to his daughter lamenting the rise of Liberals with a small "l" who " believe in nothing but will believe in anything if they think it worth a few votes ".

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blindboy Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:54pm

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H2O Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 2:55pm

Just my opinion Connie. Style is subjective

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Hiccups Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 3:22pm

Hutchy19. Crapping on until the Glascows come home.

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AndyM Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:04pm
Constance B Gibson wrote:

Hahaha. Talk about false equivalence!

Flip sides of the same coin perhaps.

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 4:08pm

Hiccups - I like that reference to cows and crappy ! Very apt as the only thing it will produce is methane and shit .

It is the biggest story in Climate Change ( even without China attending ( I wonder why )) so you will see a lot more about it - burpa .

As BB is unable to come up with any suggestions on absorption technologies I will have a go at offering a different solution .

Storage of Green power .

It will not get us to net zero but it may help reduce CO2 emissions .

Producing hydrogen on a large scale is like storing energy . Use renewable energy to produce hydrogen ( which can be stored ) energy . I have big doubts that this can happen to provide peak power .

MEGA batteries are unfortunately not an option . There will be not enough lithium , nickel cobalt etc to even supply the small batteries for EV vehicles and homes .

The only mega storage option is Snowy 2 like projects . It is like a huge battery . Reversible turbines that pump up water during the day and letting gravity produce energy at night .

Good luck getting a hundred of these approved and built . Probably easier getting the greens to approve nuclear energy .

The recent estimate of $US 150 trillion to get us to net zero will obviously be spent on building vast Green Infrastructure . This will produce VAST amounts of CO2 . Vast amounts of CO2 will be needed to upkeep and replace this technology .

Without absorption of VAST amounts CO2 net zero is IMPOSSIBLE .

If ANYONE believes it can be achieved I invite you to explain HOW .

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Supafreak Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 5:40pm

Here’s some incentive for you .

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Supafreak Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 5:51pm
blindboy's picture
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blindboy Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 6:25pm

Once we get to net zero emissions the level of forcing from greenhouse gases will stabilise as the amount entering the atmosphere will be the same as that being absorbed by the natural processes of the carbon cycle. So reducing emissions is the highest priority. We have tried some industrial technologies to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere but most have failed either totally or when there has been an attempt to scale them up to the level necessary to make a difference. It is worth a try but we cannot rely on a technology that has so far failed. Emission reduction to net zero is not only the main player in the game, it is the only player at the moment.

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carpetman Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 7:46pm

Hitchy, like I said previously, one of the best solutions for storage is off river-closed circuit-pumped hydro.

There are thousands of suitable locations for these arrangements. They can easily and quickly be filled by either pumping, Vic desal could fill a 1000ML reservoir in 2 days, or natural means. They can also be protected from evaporation. So once filled they’re ready to go.

Minor earth works, no need to destroy a river system or locate in a naturally significant area.

Typically operate at 80% efficiency. Which is 20% better than hydrogen. Output and duration can be suited to demand profiles.

The only issue is getting a company to invest in something that will only be required for use 5% of the time or less.

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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 19 Oct 2021 at 9:28pm

Carpetman - Thanks for reminding me ! You did and it is just like Snowy 2 on a smaller scale and much cheaper .

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dawnperiscope Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 6:59am

You must have a giant brain hutchy. From no idea how hydrogen fits into the picture to expert in 48hrs. Impressive!
The word dilettante is very pretty, If anyone can own it and make it sound like a good thing I’m sure you can.

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 8:21am

Dawn - have no idea on Green hydrogen CO2 free energy . Please enlighten me !

Was surprised that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than it provides .

Only benefit I assume is that hydrogen energy can be stored .

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blindboy Wednesday, 20 Oct 2021 at 9:12am

Ha ha ha, priceless ignorance.