Australia - you're standing in it

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Sheepdog started the topic in Friday, 18 Sep 2020 at 11:51am

The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.

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Blowin Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 8:43pm
Optimist wrote:

I like our flag, but perhaps its time for a new one with just the southern cross on it. We all live underneath that so it will tie everyone together and stop the divide. There are now three times more Asian Australians than aboriginal ones not counting everyone else like Greeks Italians etc etc. Habitations shift all over the earth and no one really owns anything. People move around, always have and always will. The idea is use your brains and available resources and aid and find a patch somewhere on earth to reside for our short physical lives. If you do the right thing by others and aren't greedy God will always steer you straight and give you a home. If you want to still hunt, fish and live quietly in the bush there are hundreds of places in Australia to do so where no one will bother you, just like there are cities to do the opposite, its all our choice. Its a great country we have here under the southern cross. Anything is possible.

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goofyfoot Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 9:31pm

I’m not arguing anything, I’m putting my opinion out there. You get very touchy around anything to do with indigenous people and seem to want to turn any discussion in to an argument.
I’m not going to pretend to think I know what flag Aboriginal people would like, that’s not my place to do that.
I gave my opinion about what I think it should be.

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bluediamond Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 9:43pm

I wasn't arguing Goofy, i was giving you an opportunity to argue your point.
Because i know, by formulating your argument, you'll eventually and inevitably be forced back to the one absolute truth in this whole conversation,
Not my job to educate you on that though.
If i get 'touchy' and offended about comments re. indigenous equality on here it's because very few others do. Just feel morally obliged to do so.
And just one more thing. I think the flag would be fine with a Southern Cross, and an indigenous one, a kangaroo, a kookaburra, whatever. But i just don't think it's my choice. That's my point. This country has people who's culture has been here longer than us. We live on their land. Let them decide.

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goofyfoot Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 9:48pm

Fair enough bd, I appreciate the time you take to get your thoughts across on the matter.
I agree with many of them. I’ll leave it at that

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bluediamond Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 9:59pm

Thanks Goofy. Have a good night! :)

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wally Saturday, 24 Jul 2021 at 10:52pm

If you compete in a national team under a flag and with an anthem, it is political. Countries are political units. If you wanted to keep politics out of sport, you wouldn’t have national teams competing.

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Blowin Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 6:36am
bluediamond wrote:

I wasn't arguing Goofy, i was giving you an opportunity to argue your point.
Because i know, by formulating your argument, you'll eventually and inevitably be forced back to the one absolute truth in this whole conversation,
Not my job to educate you on that though.
If i get 'touchy' and offended about comments re. indigenous uequality on here it's because very few others do. Just feel morally obliged to do so.
And just one more thing. I think the flag would be fine with a Southern Cross, and an indigenous one, a kangaroo, a kookaburra, whatever. But i just don't think it's my choice. That's my point. This country has people who's culture has been here longer than us. We live on their land. Let them decide.

Sorry, mate. But you’ve got to stop trying to delegitimise the fact that people born and raised here are Australians no matter their heritage. Nothing to do with anyone else’s experience of the place or their life’s journey. Each to their own. But there’s no one on this land who is more Australian than I am, more entitled to live here or claim Australia as their homeland. This is an incontrovertible truth irrespective of the colour of my skin.

I don’t live on anyone’s land but my own.

Australia always was, always will be my home and no one has a greater claim than I do. I don’t say this to offend. Division and offence is the last thing I wish to create. I say this from my heart with a hope we can all move forward together as Australians. Whether you’re part Irish, part Japanese, part Eskimo, part Aboriginal or part Chinese matters not. It doesn’t matter if you’re a full blood of any race, If you’re born and raised here then you’re as Australian as any other and this is your land.

I’m not putting forward an argument or stating an opinion. I’m not attempting to create conflict or stir controversy. I’m speaking plain truth. I’d appreciate if you could respect my intrinsic emotional, physical and spiritual connection to my home and not make proclamations which try to diminish or delegitimise this belonging. Thanks.

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goofyfoot Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 7:50am

I had a reply typed out to bd last night along the lines of -
I was born in Oz, my parents were born in Oz, all 4 grandparents were born in Oz.
I’m as Australian as anyone etc etc etc but I wasn’t up for a back and forth last night I was ready for bed.
Maybe another time

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 8:42am
Blowin wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

I wasn't arguing Goofy, i was giving you an opportunity to argue your point.
Because i know, by formulating your argument, you'll eventually and inevitably be forced back to the one absolute truth in this whole conversation,
Not my job to educate you on that though.
If i get 'touchy' and offended about comments re. indigenous uequality on here it's because very few others do. Just feel morally obliged to do so.
And just one more thing. I think the flag would be fine with a Southern Cross, and an indigenous one, a kangaroo, a kookaburra, whatever. But i just don't think it's my choice. That's my point. This country has people who's culture has been here longer than us. We live on their land. Let them decide.

Sorry, mate. But you’ve got to stop trying to delegitimise the fact that people born and raised here are Australians no matter their heritage. Nothing to do with anyone else’s experience of the place or their life’s journey. Each to their own. But there’s no one on this land who is more Australian than I am, more entitled to live here or claim Australia as their homeland. This is an incontrovertible truth irrespective of the colour of my skin.

I don’t live on anyone’s land but my own.

Australia always was, always will be my home and no one has a greater claim than I do. I don’t say this to offend. Division and offence is the last thing I wish to create. I say this from my heart with a hope we can all move forward together as Australians. Whether you’re part Irish, part Japanese, part Eskimo, part Aboriginal or part Chinese matters not. It doesn’t matter if you’re a full blood of any race, If you’re born and raised here then you’re as Australian as any other and this is your land.

I’m not putting forward an argument or stating an opinion. I’m not attempting to create conflict or stir controversy. I’m speaking plain truth. I’d appreciate if you could respect my intrinsic emotional, physical and spiritual connection to my home and not make proclamations which try to diminish or delegitimise this belonging. Thanks.

100% well said.

Not only that, but no matter who you are or where your original ancestry comes from be in British, German, French, Chinese, Indian whatever, we should all be proud of who we are and not feel guilty or be demonised for anything that happened in the past based on sharing an ethnicity or skin colour..(or even worst not belonging to one)

Personally im happy the British made Australia home, i wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them, id be in that cold depressing shit hole of Europe

Offcouse that doesn't mean, i think any negatives like massacres that happened to Indigenous people aren't sad or i wouldn't change these aspects of the past if i could, off course not, every single group of people have demons in their past and most of the earth has had blood spilt over it at some stage.

All cultures and people should be respected especially indigenous Australians seeing they have a much deeper history here than anyone else, but at the same time, if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly.

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I focus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 8:41am
adam12 wrote:

I focus said ,
"Don't think conservative politics would accept the southern cross on an Australia flag"
Er, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there already a southern cross on the Australian flag?
And, I believe it is on the LNP logo.

Eh yeah good point (backs away slowly) was thinking of the southern cross flags unions used, Eureka Stockade etc.

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bluediamond Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 8:41am

Blowin. There's 'plain truth'(your words), as perceived by you, which i respect, each to their own, and there's absolute truth, that is indisputable.
Truth 1: We live on stolen land
Truth 2: The peope/nation and their culture who's land was stolen still live on this land. Their culture and their humanity has suffered for more than 3/4 of the time it has been invaded.
Truth 3: The last time you wrote to me you wrote 'you now no longer exist to me'.
Only you can decide how you move forward in life with these truths and the whether you face them, or ignore them. I choose to acknowledge these truths and live a life of embracing them. I think that's better for the greater good. But we're all different. And i understand that.
History doesn't lie. History is truth.
I'd hope you can go back to at least sticking to that 3rd truth. Thanks.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:13am

Indo , I have stayed out of this one as there a lot of very hurtful remarks being made.....but couldn't let this one go ,"All cultures and people should be respected especially indigenous Australians seeing they have a much deeper history here than anyone else, but at the same time, if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly. "

the foundation of being Australian is accepting the fundamentals of history , that as Australians we embrace all Australians , and our 50000+ year culture.....but if you are not interested in indigenous culture , well you accept that , so then the question is " what type of Australian are you?"

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goofyfoot Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:37am

Brutus I love how you just totally ignored this part of the comment from Indo...

,"All cultures and people should be respected especially indigenous Australians seeing they have a much deeper history here than anyone else,“

And tried to turn his comment in to a negative one by asking what type of Australian are you? .. well done

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:45am
brutus wrote:

Indo , I have stayed out of this one as there a lot of very hurtful remarks being made.....but couldn't let this one go ,"All cultures and people should be respected especially indigenous Australians seeing they have a much deeper history here than anyone else, but at the same time, if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly. "

the foundation of being Australian is accepting the fundamentals of history , that as Australians we embrace all Australians , and our 50000+ year culture.....but if you are not interested in indigenous culture , well you accept that , so then the question is " what type of Australian are you?"

Personally as a kid i had a fascination with indigenous culture because my Auntie was a school teacher in Oombulgurri a small remote town in North WA, so at Christmas she would came back with photos and stories and artwork and read us books on the dream time, I remember some big frog that swallowed all the water and the rainbow serpent story etc (Blowin mentioned the exact book at some stage about a year or so ago, has all this cool artwork)

Plus i was one of those kids that was into any and every show that was to do with the outback that had lots of indigenous stuff in them , Harry buttler, Leyland brothers, Albo mangles and into looking under ever rock or log in the nearest bush i could find for lizards and frogs and anything else that moved often taken them home to keep in a fish tank. (maybe not so good, but its better than what the kids do these days with screens)

These days i dont have much of an interest in Indigenous culture, my interest is more in Indonesian culture, but like i said a few comments back, the best bit off that Southern Cross Docco was the old Aboriginal guys in the outback telling their stories.

Anyway should people that live somewhere have an interest in the history of the people and culture there?

Be it England, Holland, France, South America, Africa, Asia, Australia, or wherever?

I personally think it's up to the individual in the interest they take in the lands history.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:44am

Goofy , that's the point.....all cultures and and people should be respected I agree , and yes indigenous Australians have a much longer history...therefore they are the foundation of being Australian....to ignore or not accept indigenous history ...Indo has said " if you don't want to accept history , well it's silly to make you?"....what's your interpretation?

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:55am

I didn't say that ".Indo has said " if you don't want to accept history , well it's silly to make you?"....what's your interpretation?"

I said.

"All cultures and people should be respected especially indigenous Australians seeing they have a much deeper history here than anyone else, but at the same time, if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly."

See reply above, but when i wrote that part of the comment it was more in relation to a comment Bluediamond made on the previous page.

That re reading now, in hindsight i actually read slightly wrong anyway....

BTW. I stand by my original comment though.

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goofyfoot Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 9:55am

No you have misquoted him Brutus.

He never mentioned “accept”
He said “interested”
You can accept the history but that doesn’t mean you have to be interested in it.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 11:21am

Indo/goofy......Ok Interested or not...would you agree that if you are not interested in the history , you might therefore not know the history?

My point is that if you are not interested , you probably don't know the History, it's then we look at what a definition of an Australian is?

History is constantly being rewritten as more facts come to light , especially in Australia...and all I see is in a very short space of time indigenous history /racism has been brought out into the public view thru BLM etc........so the questions of being a republic or a colony of the UK, the flag issue of a colonial invader , systemic racism etc, once again arise challenging all of us to.....who are we ...a cosmopolitan mix of races with a foundation in Indigenous Australians....hmm 50000 years vs 200 years......

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AndyM Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 11:22am
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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 11:28am

AndyM.....yeah Katie homes came to Australia all expenses paid , spent a couple of weeks in a hotel Quarantine all paid for.......we then kick her out and she still pocketed the $200,000 appearance $'s.......how dumb are Australians....or was it just NSW?

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bluediamond Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 11:28am

Andy M, this has nothing to do with the discussion and i honestly have nothing to engage with you on this.
Brutus, couldn't agree more.
Funny what can be brought up by sharing a simple photo of some girls holding an Indigenous flag. I sense alot of fear amongst the white middle class swellnet community. Dear me.

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bluediamond Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 11:47am

Indo wrote..."if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly."
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Where to start on this. Ahh bugger it. Not worth it. I'm pretty convinced that this forums section is comprised mostly of people with different ideologies to me and different belief systems. My fault for trying to add a different perspective. Hats off to the crew that do!! That's why Facto and MB were so good. They saw the weakness in peoples arguments and the egotistical elements to peoples online personas and called them out, mercilessly. What a drab one sided place its become since. It's pretty much the same old 15 or 20 commentators, and has been for years, a little club if you like all with the same views. Step outside of those views and you get cut down pretty quick i've found. That's why it's always the same commenters. Others come in, find out what it's like in here and go out. If you can't face the truth about the history of the country you're living on/in, then you are missing a valuable part of what it means to be alive, wholly. Live in your happy bubble, but the truth is in the history. This is aboriginal land. Always was and always will be. I hope i've pissed most of you crew off because i read most of your comments on most of the threads and all you're mostly interested in is how politics, religion, and the economy can serve you, and you first. Fair enough. Rant over, but happy to be hated at the expense of what's right and fair. And happy not to be anonymous, just can't be fucked with people like D Rex getting creepy and looking me up...i reckon he would. Adios from this thread.....for now.
p.s If Swellnet doesn't ban D-Rex they are endorsing racism. Plain and simple. His posts are constantly laced with racial malice.

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AndyM Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 12:03pm

BD, it’s got quite a bit to do with the topic of deplatforming we were chatting (amicably I thought) about.

“Progressive left needs to exercise caution — banning people for their views is the road to censorship”

As you mentioned above, it’s always worth applying a bit of critical thinking.
FWIW I agree with the majority of what you say.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 12:12pm
bluediamond wrote:

Indo wrote..."if you're not interested in Indigenous culture, fine, the idea that you should be is silly."
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Where to start on this. Ahh bugger it. Not worth it. I'm pretty convinced that this forums section is comprised mostly of people with different ideologies to me and different belief systems. My fault for trying to add a different perspective. Hats off to the crew that do!! That's why Facto and MB were so good. They saw the weakness in peoples arguments and the egotistical elements to peoples online personas and called them out, mercilessly. What a drab one sided place its become since. It's pretty much the same old 15 or 20 commentators, and has been for years, a little club if you like all with the same views. Step outside of those views and you get cut down pretty quick i've found. That's why it's always the same commenters. Others come in, find out what it's like in here and go out. If you can't face the truth about the history of the country you're living on/in, then you are missing a valuable part of what it means to be alive, wholly. Live in your happy bubble, but the truth is in the history. This is aboriginal land. Always was and always will be. I hope i've pissed most of you crew off because i read most of your comments on most of the threads and all you're mostly interested in is how politics, religion, and the economy can serve you, and you first. Fair enough. Rant over, but happy to be hated at the expense of what's right and fair. And happy not to be anonymous, just can't be fucked with people like D Rex getting creepy and looking me up...i reckon he would. Adios from this thread.....for now.
p.s If Swellnet doesn't ban D-Rex they are endorsing racism. Plain and simple. His posts are constantly laced with racial malice.

ya know BD....I often get asked by people why I spend so much time on the forums arguing/debating the issues of the day?
I see constantly what you see , a small group of commentators that have dug in on their relative issues , especially the conspiracy right wingers.......there is and old saying from Sun Tzu ," know your enemies is the first rule of war!" ....I really try and understand where they are coming from sometimes ,but is intriguing trying to work out , why they think like they do and use dodgy logic to back up their claims.....the more you hit them with links and proof....they dig in more!

however if you can debunk a lot of their theories , you stop the spread and if you can post info that is fact , you might just convince one person, who will convince another.....the right are persistent with their theories , but easily debunked.......I love reading your posts which are very logical and well sourced....and it won't be long before I move on ( round of cheering from the right!) , but I think you can see the whole race issue will go on here in Australia......but, the vaccination issues and the negative mentality towards the scientific evidence that is out there everywhere, affects all of us here in Australia....
So have a break or whatever you need , but don't let them beat you down, you have too much to contribute...change one mind and then the pebble in the pond affect......2 more , then 4 more....

Ok story, about a mth ago , had a goood surf at Bells , had a couple of really long ones all the way thru , couple of guys dropped in so I got pretty grumpy , when they said " didn't think you were going to make it ...Grrr???!!" came out of the water and a guy approached me in the car pak...excuse me can I have a chat.....I thought here we go another bloke who doesn't understand......but he opened up with ," I want to tell you a story about my sister who was in Hospital getting cancer cut out of her every other day, she was really down and , so I took her my laptop and showed the video you did a couple of years ago about depression and cancer. we watched it in tears about the fight and the result." I looked at him and asked what's your name....he replied George , " he then looked at me and said, " 2 years on my sister dug in and fought, she is now cancer free!!!!" .......inadvertently helping one person.......what price do we put on that?
So that's why I try and not get angry /frustrated with some of the people on forums....you never know mate , a truthful statement that you could make will resonate with someone , and that's where change comes in!

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D-Rex Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 12:23pm

BD you are a cry-baby bigot. Nothing I've said on these forums could be construed by an intelligent person as being racist. If you are so upset by people offering a balanced point of view you definitely have issues.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 12:47pm
D-Rex wrote:

BD you are a cry-baby bigot. Nothing I've said on these forums could be construed by an intelligent person as being racist. If you are so upset by people offering a balanced point of view you definitely have issues.

in your mind/world D-rex , you have said nothing racist.......in my world a lot of what you say is racist , is hurtful , but you would be one of the last people on here that I would call " a balanced point of view!" ....that's the problem I see a lot.....not bothering to try and understand the other persons point of view and the hurt you can cause!

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udo Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:01pm

May i take you off topic for a minute Brutus
7'4 Pro tow you made for Spennie H..whats the bottoms contours on these Guns ?
Cheers...before i drop 800 bills on it

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goofyfoot Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:02pm

BD - Quotes
"I sense alot of fear amongst the white middle class swellnet community. Dear me."

"I hope i've pissed most of you crew off"

See BD this is exactly what I meant last night when i said this -
"You get very touchy around anything to do with indigenous people and seem to want to turn any discussion in to an argument."

Just because people have a different opinion than you on certain subjects doesn't mean you need to turn into an argumentative sook.
You make great contributions on other subjects, and can talk about them normally but then when it comes to this you lose the plot, chill out mate.
Anyway Im done on this thread, go for it...

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:24pm
brutus wrote:

Indo/goofy......Ok Interested or not...would you agree that if you are not interested in the history , you might therefore not know the history?

My point is that if you are not interested , you probably don't know the History, it's then we look at what a definition of an Australian is?

History is constantly being rewritten as more facts come to light , especially in Australia...and all I see is in a very short space of time indigenous history /racism has been brought out into the public view thru BLM etc........so the questions of being a republic or a colony of the UK, the flag issue of a colonial invader , systemic racism etc, once again arise challenging all of us to.....who are we ...a cosmopolitan mix of races with a foundation in Indigenous Australians....hmm 50000 years vs 200 years......

No i think it would be pretty hard to not know the history, especially these days and really it's only the basic history that is important.

The thing about history and many things in life is people view things differently depending on their perspective of who they are and where they stand..

As an indigenous person you might choose to view the non indigenous settlement of Australia as a negative thing, while many others including myself choose to view non indigenous settlement of Australia as a positive thing.

Yeah sure i should respect your view and feelings understanding you might see things in a negative way, but i also feel that you should respect my view and feelings that i have a positive tilt on things..

As to what the definition of an Australian is, i think that is up to the individual, i dont think people need to embrace indigenous culture to be Australian in the same way i dont think they need to embrace a more cliche Aussie ocka type culture to be Australian, knowing a deeper history is nice but not essential,

BTW. By not having an interest in or feel the need to embrace indigenous culture shouldn't be a cause to feel offence, many of us have bloodlines that go back to different parts of the world and also dont embrace the culture or history of those places, i couldn't give a rats arse about English or Dutch history or culture in Europe, as i don't see myself as those things, I see myself as Australian and what i see as my history & culture is quite limited.

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old-dog Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:56pm

BD says " I sense a lot of fear amongst the white middle class swellnet community, dear me"
From what I have seen on these SN forums no one can say anything without BD getting outraged and pulling the race or sex card, often referring to white middle class males as the root cause of all the worlds evils. Many of BD's comments are also hurtful and disrespectful to some people, not to mention the holier than thou self absorbed attitude. People of BD's ilk do more harm than good to the issues they apparently care so much for. BTW what has being middle class have to do with anything. I guess to you I'm just a white middle class heterosexual carnivorous Aussie male and should be ashamed of myself. To me the real racists are the ones who keep playing the racist victim card over harmless innocent comments and making skin color an issue when it's not.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 2:12pm

Anger and hate. or Love and peace

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 2:12pm
udo wrote:

May i take you off topic for a minute Brutus
7'4 Pro tow you made for Spennie H..whats the bottoms contours on these Guns ?
Cheers...before i drop 800 bills on it

Hi Udo , cannot go wrong with the Protow ....should have a little vee in the nose to a concave then Vee again.....hopefully will be the best board you have surfed

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Robwilliams Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 2:24pm

Anyone can kick a dog when its down.

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brutus Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 3:08pm

Indo...."No i think it would be pretty hard to not know the history, especially these days and really it's only the basic history that is important.

The thing about history and many things in life is people view things differently depending on their perspective of who they are and where they stand..

As an indigenous person you might choose to view the non indigenous settlement of Australia as a negative thing, while many others including myself choose to view non indigenous settlement of Australia as a positive thing."

Only basic history is important ...wow , so what does that mean? Thats what we are talking about breaking down the old stereo types of a twisted version of history.....as new evidence comes to light , well , history is rewritten , as happening currently in Australia....lets open up the dialogue on the Frontier Wars between the settlers and the first peoples!

Personal perspective is just that.....not real just a perspective!

I have no real paperwork on being indigenous , and DNA tests have been inconclusive....I was brought up in a middle class white Anglican home with Foster parents ....there is not a 100% proof, but I have always been accepted because of my looks and where my heart lies.....I have embraced indigenous culture as Australian culture because there are people like you who don't recognize the attempts at genocide and treatment of our first peoples.....that is not a perspective , but fact, as is the era of colonialism which is now seen as one of the worst periods in History , enslaving people, plundering countries all in the name of money and power....
So yeah , I could be Chinese or mongol........it's not really relevant , as its who I am now and what I believe based on the facts at hand.
So I see the struggle in Australia , and a lack of really wanting to embrace our history ....warts and all.......I believe we should be the sum total of all our Australian ethnic groups.....so as their are more than million Chinese now.....well????

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 5:16pm

Basic history means exactly that a basic history, you can include frontier wars in that i think these days most people have heard of the frontier wars.

BTW. Ive been talking more everyday Australians in this conversation.

But if we are talking what should be taught at school then 100% i think all aspects of our history should be taught including the time before white fella and including frontier wars, but i dont think it should be a one sided type view of either the traditional perspective from white fella that was once taught or the modern type view that seems to demonise the white fella and romanticise the indigenous aspect.

It should be a completely honest history lesson that isn't afraid to look at both the positive and negative aspects from both positions of the history until now.

Without being in the classroom it's hard to know exactly what is taught these days, but you do see a narrative these days that seems to want to put Indigenous culture up on a pedestal and romanticise it as something that is white and pure and life was some utopia before white man..

When the reality is it would have been a very hard life, life expediency low, tribes clashed and fought over boundaries or women, women were treated as much less than men almost as possessions, men sometimes had multiple wife's, very young women forced to marry(promised marriages), even canabolism was practised at times.

I also think students should be taught about practical things like the bush foods in their local area and a basic history of events in their area like massacres or ideally positive events too that might have happened and they did happen.

BTW. its not at all fair to suggest "because there are people like you who don't recognize the attempts at genocide and treatment of our first peoples"

Im not sure why or how you have come to that conclusion, it's not true, ive never once denied massacres or mistreatment of indigenous people.

But if we are going to be into truth telling, then it needs to actually be truth telling, not just what sounds good or fits a political or social agenda.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 5:48pm

If I kick a dog while it's down and I keep kicking it. It will die. If it has an owner that owner will most likely come looking for me. Cycle repeats. Just as if I surf and the same person snakes and drops in on me. Until I call it out or slap them down. The cycle continues no difference other than subject. Cultivate the foundations of basic respect be it in the water or out, crying after being called out for disrespect never equates to respect.

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Optimist Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 5:39pm

I'm only interested in one race....the Human race.
I'm also only interested in utilising the very best parts of it and chucking the rest away. That's the beauty of looking at what was bad in history and cultures and leaving it behind. Every culture on earth has good bits to glean and when you add the good bits together you have a formula for a better life. We are doing pretty good here in Oz, Not awesome but OK ish...as long as we don't get all sentimental or self hating about our past regardless of where we are from. Today is the first day of the rest of our lives, lets move on as the very well interconnected "Human race."

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GuySmiley Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 5:55pm

WTF

“I'm only interested in one race....the Human race.
I'm also only interested in utilising the very best parts of it and chucking the rest away. That's the beauty of looking at what was bad in history and cultures and leaving it behind.....”

So missionaries can fuck over indigenous culture all they like all in the name of some false Christian idol thingie .. very telling optimist

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bluediamond Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 6:01pm

Cheers Brutus. Appreciate the thoughts and wisdom shared.

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Optimist Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 6:11pm

I have the the pleasure of knowing many Indigenous Australians through churches, some of them Pastors, who also believe in what I wrote above. Use the good things, throw out the bad. Your hate for Christianity is deep Guy Troll Boy. You should learn not to hate. Your life will be much better for it.

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frog Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 6:55pm

I occasionally watch some of those TV evangelists out of curiosity. So many endless words, so much focus on sin and so much presenting everything and everyone outside of their church as evil, sinful and almost the enemy. The blank faced cult-like audiences nod and make sheep bleats of faith every now and then but otherwise look like they have been lobotomised by the stream of words.

Optimist, I hope you don't attend such creepy places.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 7:42pm

Hate?

The irony of you, the naive god bother, who makes judgements on what is good in humans and cultures to discard the rest accusing others of hate.

I don’t hate anything optimist but if I did it would be the gross hypocrisy of this wave of americanised Christian religions and their self righteous followers.

Didn’t Jesus have a lot to say about those who judge others?

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megzee Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 7:48pm

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brutus Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 8:34am

Indo, I understand how you see Australia, but when I see comments like"But if we are talking what should be taught at school then 100% i think all aspects of our history should be taught including the time before white fella and including frontier wars, but i dont think it should be a one sided type view of either the traditional perspective from white fella that was once taught or the modern type view that seems to demonise the white fella and romanticise the indigenous aspect.

It should be a completely honest history lesson that isn't afraid to look at both the positive and negative aspects from both positions of the history until now.

Without being in the classroom it's hard to know exactly what is taught these days, but you do see a narrative these days that seems to want to put Indigenous culture up on a pedestal and romanticise it as something that is white and pure and life was some utopia before white man..

When the reality is it would have been a very hard life, life expediency low, tribes clashed and fought over boundaries or women, wom en were treated as much less than men almost as possessions, men sometimes had multiple wife's, very young women forced to marry(promised marriages), even canabolism was practised at times."

Firstly, the demonize white fella comment...well Terra Nullus was the start of all the atrocities that Blackfellas suffered , we are still being made aware and absorbing our history , which included genocidal policy's , and horror treatment of Australia's First peoples....tried to wipe out their culture , and left a fragmented /decimated culture that is still dealing with the remnants of the colonial hangover...the right wing element in Australia who still argue that blackfellas have never had it better...which brings me to your comments about your view of Our first Peoples Culture......from your perspective .....it WOULD Have......"been a very hard life, life expediency low, tribes clashed and fought over boundaries or women, women were treated as much less than men almost as possessions, men sometimes had multiple wife's, very young women forced to marry(promised marriages), even canabolism was practised at times."........I find this comment and point of view very disturbing.......as you just described colonialism except left out slavery....and all the wars men fought in Europe/raping and plundering other people 's cultures , and I am not sure where you got the idea Blackfellas had it hard before whiteman , and were liberated by your White colonialists.......
From what I have seen and been taught over the last 40 years or so....white man brought misery , the misery continued till now and is being rectified as more facts become available......and to see our sports people proud to show the Australian Flag without the Union Jack....is incredibly empowering for future generations....it will continue to grow as we learn more...so bring on the Republic and remove the shackles of the Pommy Colonial blight that still lives in the shadows of todays Australia.....

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Blowin Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 8:54am

You wouldn’t exist without that “pommy colonial blight”.

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Supafreak Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 9:03am

@brutus , have you heard anything about the early trade with Indonesia and China, here’s an article I came across recently and has other links at end of article. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/new-study-aboriginal-trade-before...

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D-Rex Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 9:10am

Being unable to acknowledge anything positive about European arrival in Australia continues to be your achilles heel, brutus (along with BD and a few others). I accept that there were unfortunate consequences for many but what would your lifestyle look like without Capt Cook's arrival? I believe you've had a rough trot of late and I know you've been incarcerated but you've also benefited enormously from what Europeans brought to Australia. To accuse me of being in my own blinkered world is a little hypocritical, but I know that's how this game is played.

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D-Rex Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 9:16am

You really have a nice way of relaying your opinions, Guy. One very diplomatic and sensitive atheist.

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brutus Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 9:43am
Blowin wrote:

You wouldn’t exist without that “pommy colonial blight”.

once again Blowin you try to personalise your comments , it's not about whether or not we would exist....it's about correcting History , dealing with and absorbing the good and the bad and recognising mistakes ...so your comment is irrelevant, try actually dealing with the issue/subject and not shooting the Messenger!

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GuySmiley Monday, 26 Jul 2021 at 11:12am

More respectful agnostic D-Rex but don't expect me to remain silent when optimist and perhaps others here start preaching about their one true (christian) god and how all other gods and belief systems and cultures are the false path to everlasting happiness. I think that position and especially what optimist said at 5.39 yesterday is dangerous, history tells us so.