All Things Religion Thread

Balance's picture
Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

sheep shagger's picture
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sheep shagger commented Wednesday, 24 Feb 2021 at 12:26pm

Apparently, talking to an imaginary god helps some people sleep well.
I know talking to an imaginary girlfriend on Fans Only helps me to sleep ; - )

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Wednesday, 24 Feb 2021 at 3:13pm

bonza, if you need proof, the only way you will be convinced is if you prove it yourself. i could talk until st kilda wins another premiership but you would find all sorts of objections, and so it should be. each to their own. it's your life, live it anyhow you like.
but i remind you that it really is impossible to live life without the loving lifeforce, but it's not impossible to think that you can. there is only one thing, and you are part of it whether you believe it or not. is this imaginary, maybe, maybe not, the evidence is clear and present.

davetherave

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bonza commented Wednesday, 24 Feb 2021 at 4:35pm

all the best dave

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Wednesday, 24 Feb 2021 at 6:26pm

thanks my friend. may you be stoked all day, everyday.

davetherave

frog's picture
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frog commented Wednesday, 24 Feb 2021 at 11:08pm

So so so many "gaps" and mysteries in evolution have been filled / solved since Darwin wrote those words. The Sahara fossil record has revealed multiple intermediate stages in Whale evolution is just one example.

But I have a very intelligent relative who has convinced himself in the creation story because it fits his desired way to view the world.

He gave me a book that argued the age of the earth at 8000 years or so because Niagara Falls cuts away into the cliff escarpment at a rate that suggests the erosion began about 8000 years ago. Superficially this sounds a bit of logical. BUT

This ignores the fact that the underlying rock is sedimentary and itself had to form over a very long time period and overlays even older rocks etc.

The convolutions his poor brain has to go through to sustain his house of cards picture of the world must be exhausting. Or perhaps I am wrong in saying that and the simplicity of the creation story gives him the serenity he needs?

He once said "I don't want to live in a world like that" (without his version of god). A concept akin to saying it is offshore and perfect because i want it to be so when facing a blown out 2ft beachie.

That approach can be called "belief" but not so sure it can also be called "truth".

Frogg

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 3:56am

Frog, the earth is very old and was covered in water. This current civilization of men is not that old...This also fits all the population growth graphs, maths and historical.
Some bible scholars hint at a different civilization long before ours, but God doesn't talk about it anywhere that I can see, so neither do I.

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frog commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 8:21am

Now an all powerful being could set everyone straight on a lot of such speculation in five minutes.

He could appear as a 1000 foot tall being on the top of Mnt Everest and speak to the world on TV. He chooses not to. He leaves poor biblical scholars and other humans to endlessly re-analyse a book written 2000 years ago based on the speculations of many mortals who seem to be guessing the answers based on very human like wisdom built up from living in ever larger groups and stories told down the generations.

Perhaps he does not talk to us with clarity because he does not really care what you and I think or believe and wants everyone to just get on with living? Or he is a bit busy managing some dangerous black holes and super nova a billion light years away? Or he is planning the next big bang and working out which of many mathematical and physics options would work well for the new universe that follows?

Earth is but a spec of sand in the huge Saharan Desert. Maybe we overstate its importance (and our own) in the scheme of things.

Our father who art in heaven may not be very father-like or human-like at all despite the very human desire for such a being.

Ah, but I am speculating, better get that book out and see if some sentence in it solves such mysteries.

Then again, maybe not, I have more important things to do than solving life's unsolvable mysteries .... like checking the weather map and contemplating my next surf.

Frogg

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Optimist commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 9:06am

True Frog everyone was waiting for Christ (God in Visible form) to come like you said.
Big bold and powerful....But then He turns up a baby to Joe and Mary , born in a barn in a feed trough, becomes a chippie and then a homeless person and preacher...much less spectacular than anticipated....Drove the rich and religious people crazy....But..That's God for you ...never thinks like we do...has His own thing going on....
Jeremiah 29:11-13 (New International Version)
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

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udo commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 9:38am
GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 11:48am

Fancy optimist prophesizing here about his god after what he recently had to say about Ms Higgins. If it’s one thing I can’t stand its the fucking hypocritical religious. The thing is optimist you’re supposed to live the word not just prattle it out like a well trained parrot.

happyppl's picture
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happyppl commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 11:49am

guy smiley watched bits of c. cook docco and it is def one sided and biased from a modern perspective,
saw the bit about on his second trip (?) he witnessed canibalism.
i lived and worked in nz in 76 and l learnt about the mori ori the original first nation peoples, some archeoligists and ethnoligists(?) believe maori occupation only 400yrs old others believe 800yrs?
it is fact though that the mori's were a peacefull community and the maoris enslaved them and ate them.
the last remnants of mori's saught refuge on the chatham islands in the late 1800's, i think.
a group of maori took control of a whaleing vessel and went their and buttchered them all and ate them.
there are two sides of a story, google and learn.
i don't know if sam neil has touched this part of history yet but he is an actor and only parroting the directors biased opinion.

happyppl

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 12:40pm

Happy, Not saying it’s all fact, more infotainment but it touches on relevant themes and gives a good overview, a starting point. It also provides an alternative view namely cook didn’t “discover” anything in the pacific, the great native navigators of the pacific had him long covered.

frog's picture
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frog commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:42am

Frogediah 15:12-1

"And in the great new world a prophet emerged. A man of Orange spoke of the mysterious maga and became much loved by the evangelical peoples of The Book drawing huge crowds throughout the land. Instead of fishes and bread he spread before them a bounty of hats. He commanded his flock to fight but to also to love thy neighbour and to grab them by the pooosy. And they believed."
Frogediah 15:12-2
"The flock searched the scriptures for references to his coming. They searched for meaning in his words and parables and found in them simple answers for all ills. The crowds fell to chanting maga maga to the unbelievers knowing they were blessed for doing so and it was god's work"

Frogg

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 6:16pm

Nice try Guy, better re read my posts in which Ive never blamed the victim. All I said was she got suckered by a deviant, so teach your kids to watch out for traps like that and don't fall into them.
Your constant trolling of me is a bad reflection of your character simply because you disagree with my points of view....these points of view are the very same as many millions on this earth....Optimist.....Year of our Lord 2021.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 6:20pm

Really? You been to confession? All been forgiven? Cleansed? Isn’t telling the truth one of the big 10 that Moses gave you?

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soggydog commented Thursday, 25 Feb 2021 at 11:59pm

Pants on fire Optimist?

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 1:53am

“ and the poor girl should have spoken up straight away and also should have never put herself in that position in the first place, but she obviously got sucked in while pissed after the pub as happens to all of us when your young and stupid.”

“ better re read my posts in which Ive never blamed the victim.”

Not so sure that kind of shit is going to get you through those pearly gates Optimist. Pretty fucked up if it does....

Pristine

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Optimist commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 4:55am

Well its happened to me and its probably happened to you as well, still doesn't make it your fault. Got to be careful out there.Have to keep your wits about you at all times. If your young and reading this, don't get blind...keep your head on straight..stay safe.

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 9:09am

pages and pages of opinions and judgements because Optimist made a Faux pas in this day and age, comments on a rape victim .......been following all the howling and self righteousness displayed in a lot of the negative comments/judgements posted here against ol O.....looks like a lynch mob on a forum.....at least it brought some of the loony left and rabid right together.......that's just an observation.....

It's really sad to see everything here is always polarizing left and right....no-ones opinion ever changes.....

It sounds like the the rape victim had a rohypnol given to her , because she has no real memory of the events and learnt most of what transpired in the news. the other victims which are now coming forward show a systemic abuse of women , but lets not politicize and try and blame Libs or labor... they all have histories of similar human failings .....looks like Optimist would explain differently now what he was trying to say......

To judge Optimist and then his religion because of what he said......is like me judging all white people as pedophiles , because white colonialists brought it to this country , or all Germans are Nazi's , or that racism in Australia is getting worse based on a a couple of incidents....

I mean FFS , lets get an investigation into Bob hawke and the multiple rapes of his daughter by one of his political mates....do we judge the labor Party on the cover up?

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san Guine commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 9:41am

Woe betide you hypocrites... although describing the Scribes and Pharisees, there is something in that for all professing Christians

Matthew 23:25-27

udo's picture
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udo commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 9:57am
brutus's picture
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brutus commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 10:01am

so you are a fake Christian?

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Pops commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 10:26am

From udo's linked article:
"True Christians are not perfect, and failures, even habitual failures, do not necessarily mean the person is a fake. Christians do sin, and when we do, unbelievers point to this as evidence that we are fake."
I'd agree with that, and anyone claiming to be perfect should be treated with suspicion.

He who hesitates is lost

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Rabbits68 commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 11:38am

“To judge Optimist and then his religion because of what he said......is like me judging all white people as pedophiles , because white colonialists brought it to this country , or all Germans are Nazi's , or that racism in Australia is getting worse based on a a couple of incidents....”

That’s just plain ridiculous. No need to make this any bigger or smaller than it is. Optimist served up some crystal clear victim blaming regarding Brittany Higgins. Optimist regularly quotes/uses his religion amongst his posts (which is his right). He then rightly got called out. He then doubled down. If you can’t see the hypocrisy then I’m not sure where to from here. How nice it must be to be able to turn a blind eye when it suits. Not surprised he’s getting support on here though. Pretty creepy shit.

Pristine

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brutus commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 1:04pm

rab.....some of the comments I read about Optimist and therefore .....all christians God/jesus lovers etc.....evenn people who use religion and the Pedo priests , judge Christianity on the behavior of humans........

no blind eye here , I accept I am not perfect ......

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Optimist commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 1:11pm

..looks like Optimist would explain differently now what he was trying to say......
Sheesh, your right there Brutus...never meant to blame the girl.....always trying to warn young people to keep an eye out...
..lost my eldest son mentally for 10 years when a famous ex pro surfer decided he wanted to hang out with him and his friends...My son was a one of those special freesurfers, some said a freak...but not after this guy filled him with designer drugs and whiskey daily.....My son thought him more cool than me and ended up in the pits as they do...
He's good now, nice family, good business and paying off a home..real proud of him and his comeback but he lost his joy somewhere....Starting to rip again too which is good for his head....Hate seeing young people get sucked in and used for entertainment by shit mentors like that.

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brutus commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 1:44pm

rab.....some of the comments I read about Optimist and therefore .....all christians God/jesus lovers etc.....evenn people who use religion and the Pedo priests , judge Christianity on the behavior of humans........

no blind eye here , I accept I am not perfect ......no christian does

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brutus commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 1:51pm

Optimist....yeah I know you meant no harm......my daughter had to go thru all this shit 15-18 yrs ago...she worked at a famous sports Bar where there was a silver box under one of the Barmans counters that contained rohypnols......shi always covered her drinks with her hand ....but once she and her friends were invited upstairs to a bar , for champagne and she saw the blokes put something in the champagne...the girls bolted.....and justice was dispensed which you couldn't do now........so yeah girls have to be careful.....

views from the cockpit's picture
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views from the ... commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 3:39pm

So many shit people on our one and only beautiful planet.
And a lot of them religious too- of all types.
Kill all of them I reckon.
Wheres the button?

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zenagain commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 4:10pm

Who decides View?

1173

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seaslug commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 4:43pm

One of WA’s most prolific paedophile catholic priests is set to die in jail, after five more children came forward to reveal how they were abused by Father Patrick Holmes as they played and worshipped.

views from the cockpit's picture
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views from the ... commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 5:04pm

I'll ave a go!
;-)

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 6:35pm

In my book people can believe in or who they like and I’ll respect that if they live a more fulfilled and happy life but for someone to say their god is the one true god is beyond contempt. Why must there be one true christian god? To say that immediately shows great disrespect for all the ancient belief systems known in human history and yet you want to be respected for your belief! Yeah nah. Optimist has lots of form in this regard by the way, another bad day or two? So if you believe in a god great but also recognise the basic tenets of all belief systems or religions are shared and there is no one true god.

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troppo dichotomy commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 7:09pm

God save us from religion.

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Snuffy Smith commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 8:29pm

Ave a go

Balls of fire

views from the cockpit's picture
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views from the ... commented Friday, 26 Feb 2021 at 10:05pm

Grasshopper

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Sickaz commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 1:32am

Making a judgement on the existence of god from a rational and evidence based standpoint, agnostic is the only title that I could use to describe my perspective, ie: how the hell would I know.

There is no way to either prove or disprove the existence of God as far as I know. Indeed proper logical thought should address the possibility of God.

Spirituality, or religion is not exactly logical though. Faith is not a logical thing, so to dissect religion in a purely scientific manner is perhaps naive to the reason why religion exists?

I like it that some people believe in things that we don’t know how to explain/prove in scientific terms and trust their own intuition. Sometimes (not always) I think having faith in something unproven/unprovable is a brave and excellent thing. So to all the faithful religious and atheist people. Good for you. I actually wish I had a belief either way because I think it would be comforting as opposed to the agnostic limbo (sorry) I find myself in.

I grew up in a very secular environment, I have only been to a church service once to get into a skate park for free and it reminded me of what I would imagine a US Bible Belt church to be like. My motivation was pretty oblique - they had the biggest of two indoor skate parks in Perth, it was pretty good and I wanted to save the $4 entry... ah student days. With vouchers that $4 could buy me two whoppers from hungry jacks and still leave me one dollar - winning! Alas church was not for me. I paid the $4 entry and had to get my calories predominately from longnecks of Emu Bitter.

I have tried to inform my perspective on the matter as I have gotten older. Reading and listening to passionate and revered characters like Doestoyevski, Nietzsche, Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris has perhaps made me more confused. Maybe I should read more religious texts to know what I’m talking about. Probably should.

Saying that though, I am currently reading Herman Melville’s - Moby Dick, which is surprisingly humorous so far - sharing a bed with a stranger, a tattooed ‘cannibal’ Maori? Who cuddles Ishmael at night... what a scene. Anyway the early scene where the priest gives a sermon from a raised pulpit was an eye opener for me. Talking about Jonahs repentance and the need to speak the truth even if it brings harm... I will be thinking about it for a while. Also the following scene where Ishmael joins Queequeg in worshipping his timber Icon despite himself being a Presbyterian Christian was very heartwarming as an outsider to religion.

Ever since ‘Attitude of Gratitude’ I have almost worshipped Sponge Bob. A fine example of positivity, love, contentedness and a somewhat stoic outlook.

Anyway, it is generally accepted that holding religious beliefs is an act of faith. Unless someone can prove the non-existence of God, which is different to poking holes in religious stories, I will keep my opinion that, like religion, atheism is also a form of faith.

Sickaz's picture
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Sickaz commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 1:36am

Question: does believing in God, despite not being a member of a church or religion, make you religious?

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Optimist commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 4:05am

Religious is just a word that means superstitious so its a bad word really...
If you believe in God that's great....you don't have to be a church member. You can ask God himself to teach you and He will......But if you can find a church that you like, you will find another family that will walk with you.
If there is a God, there will only be one, and He will have a way and it will only be one way, because there can only be one truth ...you cant have many truths,,,you can only have one.

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memo... commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 4:15am

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:18am

Can you prove there is no God, Guy?

you seem so sure there is no God , based on what?

If you believe that there is no one true God, what academic research have you done , to arrive at your conclusion ?

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:27am

Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat.

Also look up the logical fallacy of argument from ignorance.

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san Guine commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:35am

Thanks Andy,
Nice to have some Latin over breakfast

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adam12 commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:37am

What was before the big bang?
The universe is expanding...into what?
The universe weighs more than what we see...what is that stuff?
These are the questions worth examining, rather than the existence of a single christian diety.
And when will Victoria get waves again.

sheep shagger's picture
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sheep shagger commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 8:59am

Brutus.. I'm all for letting people express their religious views.
But when you start saying ..."one true God" you are another bigot dismissing the religious views of anyone that doesn't believe in your white, one man god.
You're saying your imaginary friend is true and other religions imaginary friends are lies?
It's fkn arrogant.

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brutus commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 9:05am

Sickaz......".Spirituality, or religion is not exactly logical though. Faith is not a logical thing, so to dissect religion in a purely scientific manner is perhaps naive to the reason why religion exists?"

I think the word spirituality is much better than religion......as man has always asked "what's the meaning of life?" when you back thru history man has always worshipped higher Gods , even created lots of Gods for specific purposes like in India where there arde literally 100's of Gods.

So why does man want/need higher entities to worship and set the moral boundary's of the behaviour of just about all civilizations on the planet ( except communism) now and in the past ?

Faith...we all have faith eg , when you have a $50 bill in your hand....you have faith that you can get $50's worth of value when you spend it....but it's really just a piece of paper worth maybe 10 c........all of us have faith in when we go to bed , you will wake up in the morning , or you have faith your wife will remain faithful...

try watching youtube....Ravi Zacharias /Richard Dawkins.......Ravi is an incredible academic with a sense of humor who has debated Dawkins .....have a couple of other guys if you like Ravi?

You don't have to go to church to be a Christian....as some churchs try to be a middleman between you and God/jesus.......

if we can keep it civil , have a lot more links etc....who question Nietze/Dawkins.....etc....good to hear from "the otherside" to have a balanced opinion..

As for some of the reading you are doing especially

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 9:08am

Huh?
I've never said there is no god Brutus so I have no interest in proving its existence/non existence, in fact I find your questions some what offensive, I'm not the one here espousing that god exists like its fact beyond question. My issue is with this facility that there is one true (christian) god. If you want to believe that is perfectly fine by me but you and you fellow believers can't leave it at that can you? you have go spread the word don't you? you know convert more to the flock .... and on what basis? a book written by men ....

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 9:28am

Guy i don't want to have to point out the obvious, but if you were religious it would kind of be pointless not believing your own god is the one and only true god (be it christian, jews or islam etc)

To accept there is other gods means their beliefs are wrong.

BTW. left out Hindu on purpose as they have gods for everything, but Id be surprised if they accepted a god of christians or islam?

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 10:13am

see info, that’s the problem, spirituality in what ever form it takes for you shouldn’t be about me right you wrong, whatever you believe in should respect diversity and bring people closer not further apart.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 27 Feb 2021 at 10:21am

But religion is all about oneself, it's about doing what is needed to secure this special eternal after life, it's not at all about living this life.