The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

Island Bay's picture
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Island Bay commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 11:19am

Spot on, Westo.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 11:25am

Yep well said Westof.

Pristine

lostdoggy's picture
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lostdoggy commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 11:54am

Unfortunately, any policy designed to help the the lower class gets labelled as communist, even by a significant portion of the lower class itself.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 12:06pm

Exactly.

And that's why change has a strong headwind.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 1:04pm

The power of a hegemony built up over generations.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 2:51pm

Fossil Fuels ignited the election.

Members of Congress own $93m in Fossil Fuels
https://prospect.org/power/members-of-congress-own-up-to-93-million-in-f...
Big Oil donated $109m = Republicans $102m > Ind / Dems $7m

Top 20 Big Oil recipients during campaign.
1) $3,186,191 - Trump + (Dakota Pipeline $10m)
2) $1,481,423 - Biden vowed not to swill Fossil Fuel...a little moonshine won't hurt.
Oil PAC's upped donations on Hillary's campaign... (Joe never took Oil money..Ok!)
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/10/16/these-two-things-are-relate...
5/6) $ 630,512 + $563,303 for Rep' Sen' in Swing Seat Georgia...(see next)
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries./recips.php?ind=E01++

Contested Swing States sit on Shale Oil Gas.
Big Oil paid Republicans to repeatedly contest (Georgia) over & over.(see Top 5/6)
https://www.hartenergy.com/exclusives/expert-oil-and-gas-has-georgia-its...
+
Republican (vs) Democrat (Pennsylvania) Fracking War is also on right Now!
https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Pennsylvania-lawmakers-sue...

Rep (vs) Dem post election contest never stopped a day in same Swing States.
Contesting election was only ever as always about US Oil...Covid licences doubled.
A day's difference between an Oily Electoral Lawsuit < > Oily Legislative lawsuit

Big Oil behind congress fuelled Capital Hill Attack
https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-big-oil-money-behind-the-members-of-cong...

Recent Republican swansong o's Tour was to tie up Big Oil & Gas Deals.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9064091/Mike-Pence-skip-country...

New US 'Individual' $10b sanctions forced Ukraine to shut out Russian CEO line.
Ukraine must now pay (US/Poland) to undermine Ukraine's own Gas reserves.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/how-to-improve-eu-ukr...

Here's US Abraham (Peaceful Genocide) with...Israel, UAE, Bahrain, Sudan.
Removes UNRWA & Palestinians for Jewish Takeover / Arab Laundering / Oil.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uae-plotting-israel-against-palest...
https://thearabweekly.com/chevron-stakes-gas-future-middle-east

US is nice enough to lift Sanctions to allow Sudan access to $1.2b World loans.
These Loans must pay US compo $400m + Bomb disputed Reffo Shale Oil Quarry.
Note: Russia just fitted 2 military Ports in Sudan to bully US out of Red Sea Gas.

WHO Boss! Was outed as a Rebel stooge in Tigray Oil Reffo's scam...(Wasn't me!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55001328

Homefront post election Oil Wars
Trump & Big Oil have popcorned permits well past Joe's Public Fracking Sanctions.
When Home coming Queen Joe takes office, the buckets of oil tip over his head.
Even if Oil reserves are down the companies can always billboard Joe's love for Oil.
Biden can intro moratoriums which loses royalties but also tars Joe as anti US.

Joe's 2nd term Climate War is well & truly on the boil long before he can fan flames.
Protesters > Will scream a Sell Out! Pretty sure they will heat up some emissions.
https://www.heraldextra.com/business/oil-companies-lock-in-drilling-chal...

They, we all knew any US election was always gonna be Big Oil (vs) Big Oil.

PS: Weird Shit you must know about Election Wrap.
*Whole Murdoch Family donated $2m fuel money for Joe's Jalopy.
Traitor Murdoch was not listed on Trump's donor list? ( re: MAGA lynching party!)
*Kamala was raised by a Jamaican Dad & Indian Mum ...
* Vice Prez / Rep' Traitor Pence was raised in a Democrat Household. (MAGA Lynching!)
*Trump holds more conflicting business interests than any leader before.
*Trump leaves a trail of over 60 failed businesses just in the last 10 years alone.

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 8:43pm

"Nobody knows impeachment better than me." - Donald Trump

https://youtu.be/8SAjtHL0LTs

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 14 Jan 2021 at 10:35pm

More craziness in USA.

Andy Ngo's new book "unmasked" about Antifa is coming out in a few weeks

So Antifa in typical fascist fashion have been bullying a book store in Portland not to sell it with protest out the front of the shop and sticking slogan posters over the shop windows etc and said they will be back everyday until they stop selling it (yeah they caved and won't be selling it in store)

But the best thing is although it's only available for pre order all the publicity and controversy online (video of protestors bullying the shop owner etc) has sent it to Amazons number one best seller for the last day or so.

Now that's true karma :D

shortenism's picture
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shortenism commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 12:19am

"Be extremely subtle even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious even to the point of soundlessness, thereby you can be the director of the opponents fate" Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Trumps playing chess, the rest are playing checkers.

Sickaz's picture
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Sickaz commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 5:37am

Indo’s Amazon screenshot gives me hope when I see Orwell in the top two. I have expressed my scepticism and indeed, hatred of the censorship, hypocrisy and monopoly of Twitter, Facebook and Google. I think Orwell’s warning to never let his 1984 dystopia happen can be directly applied to these monopolies..

They have far too much power to not be regulated by an elected government. IMO.

As a political party, I think that without an alliance (financial /political /ideological) with these tech companies you have a VERY severe handicap when it comes to winning an election, especially in the US. No question where the allegiances lie currently, big tech companies (Facebook, Amazon, Google, Twitter, Apple, Microsoft) are in bed with the Democrats.

I don’t have the exact figures anymore but I can remember them, sorry I can’t provide a reference, nevertheless I will go out on a limb and remove a couple of percentage points to be careful. The donations of the staff of these three companies to the US political parties ahead of the 2020 election went something like this.

Google >90% to Democrats
Facebook >92% to Democrats
Twitter >97 to Democrats
(remember I have rounded these figures down by approx 2%) .

The new Facebook terms of service are literally like signing away your digital privacy, and your regular privacy too... besides being able to access any data on the machine you use to access Facebook, they can also access the microphone and camera of this computer/phone, at THEIR WILL. This is Big Brother Az.

Edward Snowden describes the phone hacking scenario which is basically the equivalent to the new Facebook terms of service. (Which you would’ve agreed to by default if you are already signed up!). On MSNBC (caution... left wing partisan channel).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gEYJOi2JwiQ

I am happy to use Youtube to provide reference obviously, especially interviews.

To counterbalance MSNBC I will cite Tucker Carlson (caution... right wing partisan channel/commentator) on Twitters recent efforts to take the supreme leader position of hypocrisy regarding censorship during an election in Uganda.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gEYJOi2JwiQ

Obviously big tech/social media is the most powerful propaganda vector ever. They also have the most power regarding censorship of information ever. These monopolies are based in the US and are in bed with the DNC... for now at least...

Google and Amazon just kicked Parler social media and free speech app off their servers. Favoured by conservatives because they were being censored on other platforms, the tech giants killed it because apparently Parler had not done enough to regulate dangerous speech regarding the Capitol insurrection, this despite most of the organising of the insurrection happening on Facebook (groups function), Youtube (Google), and Twitter.

Nevertheless a good excuse to silence an opposing/ competing platform with ‘dissenting’ information.

Read Orwell’s ‘1984’. (If you haven’t, or read it again).

The internet, censorship and control/manipulation/censorship of information, and the rewriting/censorship of history will be the most powerful weapon of any new totalitarian regimes, which COULD be sinking their roots now in the form of these digital information monopolies.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 7:14am

So who's among these new totalitarian regimes? The Democrats..?

Nonsense.

And I'm no Dem-fanboi but there's simply nothing in their history nor current posturing that leads me to think they'll shift from their post-war MO of laissez faire capitalism, international unilateralism, and boosterism of the individual.

And all those newcomers to Orwell are gonna get a shock if they think Mr Blair predicted the current censorship malaise. He didn't. People in the US are free to hold whatever opinion they want, there are no telescreens, no Room 101, it's when posting it online that things get sticky. This isn't a pedantic nitpick but a fundamental mismatch between plotline and current affair.

A book written in 1949 can't detail the complexities of private corporations - Big Brother and Ingsoc are governmental - manipulating a medium not yet invented. Any attempt to retrofit what's happening now vis-a-vis censorship is both impractical and unimaginative.

The closest the book comes to contemporary issues is Newspeak, best compared to the Trump administration's 'alternative facts' - truths bent to serve their purposes, sometimes even contradicting themselves yet hoovered up by followers without question.

In that regard at least, Trump followers aren't victims of Big Brother but obedient patsies.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 8:17am

Stu - By invoking the segregation of private / business activities in the US you’re failing to account for the neoliberal ideology which has created the circumstances we are currently witnessing.

It’s the system of government fostering and nurturing ( read as subsidising, strengthening through compliant legislation and enhancing through prioritised relationships ) these tech companies into becoming these monopolistic behemoths all whilst standing back and claiming they are independent agents of their own volition.

The US government has created these companies in a symbiotic relationship. Under any other political ideology besides neoliberalism, this form of government support would be saved for nationalised utilities. In the US the government hand rears these companies and permits them to occupy an essential service to the community whilst still maintaining the farce that they are independent and private organisations.

It’s like the Australian government giving a certain energy company endless exploration grants and actually doing the initial survey works with government scientists. Then they give access to land with a government decree allowing them to override conflicting ownership claims . Then they subsidise the project by constructing access roads and endless adjacent infrastructure which serves no purpose than to underwrite the operation. Then they alter immigration law to allow the entry of the labour force the energy company demands . Then they spy on foreign states to secure negotiation leverage for the company. Then the government commits hundreds of millions of dollars to clean up environmental disasters for which the company is responsible. All the while granting ridiculously generous tax breaks and concessions to the energy company........then the government throws its hands in the air and says “ Hey , we’ve got no control over the energy company cause they’re a private enterprise.”

It’s not a lie but only because the grounds for this disingenuous disassociation has been carefully curated over many years with this very intention.

Facebook , Google and Twitter would not be possible or viable or even in existence if it wasn’t for this nurturing and fostering by the US government AKA the US people. To then turn around and say that these companies can alter the flow of what is now essential lines of communication because they are independent , private businesses is the epitome of the neoliberal socialise the cost / privatise the profits philosophy.

Profits are not just measured in fiat currency they are also measured in power. In this instance it’s the power to hobble the lines of communication of the democratically elected leader of their country despite no having explicit legal basis to do so.

You’ve said this :

“And I'm no Dem-fanboi but there's simply nothing in their history nor current posturing that leads me to think they'll shift from their post-war MO of laissez faire capitalism, international unilateralism, and boosterism of the individual.”

But their relationship with Big Tech is anything but laissez faire capitalism. It’s a symbiotic relationship underwritten by the people of the US and used against them at the same time.

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-re...

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 8:03am

I'm invoking it because neoliberalism didn't exist in 1949. I'm well aware of corporations usurping government, however a distinction that still holds is that each have different goals, and that's what makes 1984 a very poor analog for the current situation.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:02pm

The reference to 1984 was one line in Sickaz’ post.

Also this is incorrect : “I'm well aware of corporations usurping government, however a distinction that still holds is that each have different goals”

Whilst the long term goals of the companies and the DNC may vary * the short term goal of deplatforming and invalidating Trump is exactly the same. Until then the DNC looks after Big Tech and Big Tech looks after the DNC . To claim their goals differ is the semantics of claiming the goals of the corrupt local council member and the developer differ. Both want the inappropriate development pushed through.

* Hmmmm.....both want money and power. I’d say the long term goals are the same too !

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 8:18am

Also, where's some references for the facts in paras two and three?

Financial aid for Facebook? How much and when..?

Compliant legislation? It's what proactive neolib govts do for all profitable businesses, not just Big Tech, and just as much to fuel jobs and expand the tax base as any other reason.

Basically I think you can make the same accusation against other economic industry.

Postscript: One line in Sickaz' post....yeah, in which he tells people to read the book to get a better handle on the situation. Nup, way off mark, plus I'm reading/seeing similar invokations elsewhere with regards to 1984 and taken together it seems like so much Groupthink.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 8:30am

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/03/google-tesla-apple-facebook-rake-...

PS The claim that neoliberal governments give subsidies to business to increase tax revenue and job creation sounds awfully oxymoronic.

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 8:36am

Free to vote for who they want, free to fuck who they want, free to live how they want, free to get on Fox News and say what they want, freedom to move, freedom to assemble, freedom to preach, free to deify who they want, free to fuck it all up if they want to do that too, but get censored for breaching T&Cs on a private medium and they all think they're fucking Winston Smith.

Besides being clueless about literature they're looking an awful lot like the snowflakes they accuse those across the breech of being.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 9:08am

Perhaps you’re forgetting that many people in the US at the moment are also not free to assemble , not free to open their businesses , not free to associate, not free to leave the house .

When you throw in the potential to lose your job and face general social disenfranchisement due to wrong think ( All lives matter is unacceptable ! ) then surely you would have to imagine some people might start to think that they are at the start of the road which might lead to oppression.

Fact remains that monopolistic Big Tech companies have subjectively censored the democratically elected leader of America without even a cursory nod to evenhandedness.

The DNC has previously disputed election results . There is multitudinous parallels with Trump’s incitement of violence ( pfffft ) which are routinely ignored by the same Big Tech. These companies have been allowed to become overly powerful and now that power is being wielded against democracy by stymying the President’s ability to address the people on the platform which now easily dominates as the vector of communication and information gathering for the vast majority of humanity.

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 9:04am

Maybe, though it's a long bow, and at any rate all the wannabe Winstons that I see are Australian and can do all of the above things I listed.

 

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memo... commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 9:37am

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 9:45am

Sounds like Charles Webster Baer is in the house.

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freeride76 commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 10:00am

is that one of the Qanon things?

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Stok commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 10:25am

Love how they say it'll be broadcasted on everyone's TV sets. You just know that's written by someone well out of touch with society.

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zenagain commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 11:06am

Great to-ing and fro-ing Stu and Blowy.

Really well thought out and constructed arguments.

1173

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philosurphizing... commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 11:36am

Micheal Moore was saying on his podcast that there are posters plastered all over Washington DC calling for armed protest marches in all cities on inauguration day.

He also mentioned that Congressmen and women told their staff the day before not to come into work on the day of the Capitol Hill protests.

He also noted that never before in Americas history has there not been a press conference after such a significant event.
Noting the reason being' the powers that be are so corrupted and factionalised, they could not even agree on what bullshit story to give to the American public'.

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Pops commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 12:05pm

All lives matter... seems innocuous enough; nothing objectionable at face value - of course they do. Then you realise that it has been co-opted as a marker by white supremacist groups (according to a mate who found his way into some darker corners of the internet as part of his PhD research on online antisemitism)... maybe that's why its seen as objectionable?
Bit like the phrase "work brings freedom"... seems a reasonable sentiment unless you know the history.

Few articles on some other phrases and symbols that have likewise been appropriated.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/washington-capitol-hate-symbols-r...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-13/us-capitol-riot-myths-behind-the-...

He who hesitates is lost

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 12:48pm

@Philosurphizing,

Doubt the army, cops, sheriffs, National Guard, and whoever else is roped in to keep the peace on Inauguration Day, will see any action. One false move by Trump followers and it'll be High Noon, and while Trump may elicit Samurai-like loyalty I doubt people are dumb enough to die for him.

That said, I wouldn't discount a Timothy McVeigh-style covert bombing campaign. In fact, after the Capitol debacle - "Now we know why our ancestors wore hoods!" - it's the likelier form of resistance.

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zenagain commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 12:54pm

Howabouts Pops- You're my friend and brother and your life matters.

Maybe we could adopt that? Not much ambiguity there.

Except the LGBTIQ etc. mob might have something to say about that.

1173

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Pops commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:01pm

Zen, I like that.

He who hesitates is lost

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:15pm

Pop - If you’ve got to search the dark illegal corners of the internet to find evidence that someone naughty has misused a certain phrase then your argument against employing the phrase is moot. There’s no ambiguity beyond that which has been manufactured .

All lives matter. Read it and realise it’s self evidentiary truth.

Zen -Contorting your speech to fit the arbitrarily imposed structures of some self appointed moral magistrate is the first step on a slippery slope. Those crew just want to continuously shift the goalposts to keep everyone wrong footed.

It’s like being told that “coloured people “is derogatory whilst” people of colour” is respectful. It’s just confected bullshit which lends power to whoever controls the narrative.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:22pm

If only the inauguration was as peaceful as last time :

Key points : violent rioters shouting “Not my President “ , “ light it up “ and “ No borders , no walls , no USA at all ! “

Geez...I bet Facebook / Twitter / Google must’ve had a fight on their hands after their platforms were used to promote this violent insurrection....not.

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1349486544755675137?s=20

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Pops commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:30pm

"There’s no ambiguity beyond that which has been manufactured", sure, that's pretty much what I said. Thing is, if by using that phrase some people will (mistakenly) think "that blokes identifying himself as a supremacist" then I might as well use a different phrasing that doesn't have that connotation. No skin of my back to do so.

He who hesitates is lost

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:46pm

Yeah, I wouldn't be looking for moral equivalence, Blowin. Wasn't so long ago yourself and ID were putting Trump followers on a pacifist's pedestal and then Capitol happened - which you're also trying to tuck away as more media exagerration even while defence forces and politicians of all stripes express deep concern.

They're angry and they're armed and this moment is close as any to a justification for slipping the safety catch.

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etarip commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:48pm

Yeah, “all lives matter” IS an evident truth Blowie, but this statement had no currency in popular discourse until it emerged as a riposte (led mostly by conservative media) to the growing power of “BLM” as an encapsulating theme for a social movement (led largely, but not entirely by, left of centre political parties).

Taking the expression literally ignores the context and intent of the meme. Kinda like Zen said.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 1:59pm

Stu....I still stand by what I said about the Capital protest.

I’ve seen not a single jot of violence to rival the ( now memory holed ) scenes shown in that clip of the Trump inauguration . All I’ve heard is extrapolation of what could have happened instead of what did happen at theCapital building.

As for the defence forces and politicians of all stripes predicting more violence then I’d say that’s more of the same shit we were told leading up to the Capital Hill protest which was meant to be a civil war starring hundreds of thousands of armed militia shooting at anything that moved instead of an unarmed weirdo in a Davey Crocket cap taking selfies .

But yeah........Armageddon imminent !!!!!!!

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 2:06pm

No, you mistake me, defence forces and politicians of all stripes have expressed deep concern at what happened at the Capitol, the seat of American government - not what is to come.

Yet you, seated 5,000kms away living in a foreign culture, know better?

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 2:24pm

No mate. I’m just extremely sceptical of the voices of vested interests and political theatre loudly braying about a doomsday scenario.....again.

I’ve heard 4 years of hyperbolic nonsense regarding imminent Trump associated catastrophe. Everything from armed insurgents to nuclear destruction and not a bit of it has come to pass.

I’ve also watched as cities got burnt , looted and occupied whilst their citizens got gunned down in the streets and assaulted at will all whilst being told it was a grass roots peaceful demonstration that was totally, completely and utterly apolitical beyond concern for racial harmony.

Sure it was. That’s why they painted “ Black Lives Matter “ in huge letters out the front of Trump tower.

Anyway . You believe the hyperbole and hype if you want. Maybe some violence will happen at the inauguration , maybe it won’t. Guaranteed that there will be at least handful of determined weirdos who do something regrettable and stupid and this can then be spun out of all proportion .

Maybe there will be a sniper who shoots a few people and it’ll be breathlessly reported as though just as many people don’t get murdered on an average school night in Chicago.

I just saw a piece in the SMH which called the Capital Hill farce a putsch FFS.

Just because people are posturing themselves to make career advantage, grandstanding theatrics or political opportunism from the Capital Hill doesn’t alter the facts . Three deaths through physical failure , one death through overzealous and criminal policing and one death through .....? No fires . No mass looting . No broadscale violence. No explosions. No gunplay .

People can try to spin that non event as hard as they want. It doesn’t change the facts.

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stunet commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 2:25pm

Riiiiight.....so only one side of the media 'spins things out of proportion'?

And hey, it just so happens it's not the side you're on!

And only one side of social unrest can be equivocated to daily happenings?

And this time it's the side you're rooting for!

Self-awareness 2021.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 2:42pm

Not sure what you’re talking about.

You’re trying to convince me that the Capital hill imbroglio was some kind of mass catastrophe just cause some talking heads said so even though the video feed of what happened is there for the world to witness ?

This isn’t about “ my side “ . I’m not on the side of some fckwit with face paint and a coon skin hat who wants to take a dump on the carpet in a federal building just as much as I’m not on the side of armed faux hippy fckwits who want to occupy the neighbourhood of innocent punters and burn down their police station.

I’m on the side of people who have political leanings and are satisfied at not creating a shit storm of unpleasantness for the community around them and that includes everyone from the coon skin pole smoker right through to the ambitious She-devil politician who wants to promote and harvest fear into political opportunity and all the way from the black clad “ anti - fascist warrior ( lol ) “ who wants to burn down US society in between sessions on their X box in their coddled suburban houses and the CNN talking head stoking as much anger as possible by labelling anyone who lodged a protest vote against the decline of their nation under the status quo as a KKK sympathiser.

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1349672644455575554?s=20

Fck them all and fck America for not being able to exist without everything being skewed through a Hollywood blockbuster level of hyperbole and illusion and for the trend it creates for our country to follow.

The US has done many amazing things politically but the devolution of truth to 3rd world levels ain’t one of them.

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AndyM commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 2:53pm

"fck America for not being able to exist without everything being skewed through a Hollywood blockbuster level of hyperbole and illusion and for the trend it creates for our country to follow."

With you there.

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JQ commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 3:35pm

Stu, you're off the mark. Blowin doesn't really have a side, all he has is his list of enemies. If they say something it's gotta be wrong.

Gross exaggeration, selective application of nuance, distortion just some of the many tools in his kit to prepare, maintain and reinforce his list of goodies and baddies.

Self awareness would clash dramatically with this.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:06pm

I think the important thing from everything we have seen in the USA in the last year from both the extreme left and extreme right is to ensure both these elements don't happen or gain traction here in Australia.

Unfortunately though i do think there are signs of the seeds being there on both sides in Australia.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:15pm

JQ - I happily thought we’d seen the back of the crew who just want to try and misrepresent the comments of others and to cast unsolicited character aspersions . Why not keep your opinions on me to yourself and just contribute to the discussion bloke ?

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JQ commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:16pm

I'm a bit more optimistic than you Indo, I don't think we've got the same potential as the US in that regard. Our society is a lot more egalitarian and we don't have anything like the same level of poverty and inequality as they do.

What has the potential to stoke that fire is more conservative fiscal and social policies, that have the effect of increasing poverty and inequality and shifting wealth from the many to the few. This is a key, if the not THE key ingredient to the type of unrest we see in the US right now.

I firmly believe many of these differences melt away if people feel they are getting a fair go and that society is reasonably fair.

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JQ commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:21pm

Not to mention we have compulsory voting here, which really reduces the likelihood of getting a really divisive candidate in power who is on the extreme ends of the political spectrum. It also means that our political parties can't do what is often done in the US, which is just appeal to a hardcore base of voters while those with moderate views just CBF getting off the couch - which is more understandable with the long queues and weekday voting that happens in the US.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:26pm

Oops - I completely misread that comment. Please ignore my previous reply.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:33pm

Compulsory voting is a good point.

But i do think a protest could turn into a riot here some media have said that was why BLM protest were allowed to happen even though it went against everything we had been told a few weeks earlier.

You also have protest groups generally left leaning using more radical type tactics like those crazy people that break into farms and steal animals or vandalise things and then you have Extinction Rebellion using some pretty extreme tactics.

On the flip side not long ago we had Fraser Annings and far right type groups and protest showing us there is some support for a true far right element in Australia.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 4:51pm

"...And the official timeline of events constructed by the New York Times through videos shows protesters began breaching the perimeter of the Capitol a full 20 minutes before Trump finished his speech.

This new evidence raises the first compelling question that remains unanswered. How could Trump incite an attack that had already been pre-planned and was in motion before his speech ended?..."

...kinda undermines 'the narrative'...

exposed (inadvertantly, and no doubt covered up...) by the nyt no less...

https://justthenews.com/government/congress/three-critical-questions-abo...

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ commented Friday, 15 Jan 2021 at 6:06pm

Sypkan with -100% nuance there. The MAGA mob invaded the capitol before Trump finished his speech? That proves it 100%, there's no way that a full month of telling people the election was being stolen would rile anyone up.

Suits your narrative just fine though doesn't it, hence the unquestioning acceptance and deliberate exclusion of any nuance.