Interesting things too

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 4:53pm

Funny you should mention that Yorkes, but I notice the same thing, especially regards the comments. I find that more often than not though, you are unable to comment when they report on things such as ethnic gangs, LGBTIQ stuff, female empowerment, immigration etc. Quite often you can comment on politics but Sam Clench as of late has not allowed comments on his Trump articles.

Until covid had engulfed the news, imo I found the majority of articles especially regards politics had a left of centre bias and you're right, the comments section on occasion reflected a right leaning contrarian view but I think there was quite a balance and the language you mention above was not the sole domain of the right.

Also BB, I wasn't focusing solely on Trump but nary a day goes by where there isn't at least two or three articles devoted to him and I'm yet to read one that posts him in a positive light, happy to stand corrected though. Also, I mentioned the lead up to the last election. I don't know if anyone remembered, but I actually predicted a coalition win a couple of weeks out. And that's supported by Yorkes view- while the vast majority of the articles were boosting labor and reporting how Labor were gonna shit it in and how they lead all the polls, the comments section painted a vastly different picture. Whether there was any editorial bias I cannot tell you, but one thing I can tell you is, I very very rarely get a comment published and I adhere to their T&C's to the letter.

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blowfly commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 5:40pm

"Also BB, I wasn't focusing solely on Trump but nary a day goes by where there isn't at least two or three articles devoted to him and I'm yet to read one that posts him in a positive light, "

That would be because in the current circumstances it is impossible to present him as anything other than a terminal fuck up. Theren is no positiver light just the ever deepening darkness of a President who couldn't give a rats about the deaths he has caused or indeed anything beyond his own delusions of adequacy.

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Westofthelake commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 6:31pm

Interesting observation Yorkesy.

I got to agree with BBblowfly re Trump.

Who is he, really? Not a real a positive fella imo.

"The “billionaire” who hides his tax returns. The “genius” who hides his college grades. The “businessman” who bankrupted 3 casinos and lost over $1B in 10 yrs. The “playboy” who pays for sex. The “virologist” who knows more than Dr. Fauci. The “leader of the free world” who said he “fell in love” with North Korea’s Kim Jong-un. The “Christian” who doesn’t go to church. The “President” who committed treason by turning a blind eye to Russian bounties on our soldiers. The “unifier” who calls white supremacists fine people. The “philanthropist” who defrauds charity. The “patriot” who dodged the draft five times. The “innocent man” who refuses to testify. The “President” who takes no responsibility. The “tough, strong” man who wears makeup and hairspray. The “deal maker” who has yet to close a deal."

The one who claims he's making America great again.

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zenagain commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 6:41pm

So you're saying he's beyond redemption Westy?

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Westofthelake commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 7:23pm

Not at all zen. He's not evil or anything. He's simply a divider, not a uniter, and I struggle to find any positive things about his presidency. Redemption is entirely up to him, and his God, and they both know it.

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I focus commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 7:34pm

Hey Zen I see Abe is polling really low in Japan I know they hammer their leaders whats your view?

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zenagain commented Saturday, 1 Aug 2020 at 9:00pm

Abe is 'Amakudari', (descended from heaven)- basically an elite. He can't run again but don't matter, he's styling.

I don't mind Abe my wife likes him too. The status quo won't change. I like how he's not taken any crap from China.

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truebluebasher commented Sunday, 2 Aug 2020 at 2:58pm

Trump shows how to prank vote by Postal Ballot & this Jock is President?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/31/politics/trump-vote-by-mail-provision...

All 'recent' primaries show Dems are well outnumbering Rep in all postal voting...

US post is snowed under with Amazonian mail outs so ask for extra money?
Trump donates $10b & Treasury hijacks US Postal Ballot Vans & Routes..(Clever!)
US Trump vows to charge more for Bezo's Democratic supply lines.

Trump is outing traitor (2020 postal Dems) for undermining US voting sovereignty.
Drums up troops (vs) Dem's war against sacred voting rights of good ol' USA.
https://www.dw.com/en/donald-trump-moots-us-election-delay-on-twitter/a-...
Defending Absentee Lazy (Rep') ballots as gold standard patriotic apple pie.
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/local/absentee-ballot-application-pr...
But Democratic cowardly Postal rorting is evil...USA USA USA

Meanwhile across each state Republicans are rigging Postal Ballot laws & services.

eg: President's Translation on how he wins unwinnable 2020 election.
Dem State = (City Ballots process + forms are delayed + no overtime Post service).
Already the norm + Ghetto Poll Stations close! Sorry not Covid Compliant
Rep States = (Mail Ballots approved & stamped [^/\^/\^/\ ] + overtime for Posties)

Trump tabled questions on US postal Ballot integrity! None listened? (Clever!)
Dems can't out any USPS corruption or side with Trump on eve of election! (Right)
"Did they just fall for the Sucker Punch to their own face again! Yep! They sure did!"

POSTrump controls the speed & flow of his Bully Electoral Game Board.
(Florida count votes 22 days early + Arizona 14 days early) Others on Day > weeks.
In 34 states Ballots not received by Nov 3rd 2020 are declared invalid.
Some Postal Ballots are Generic [ Free of date ] POSTrump tops up or bins Votes.
Postal vans of ballot papers go up in flames each week, nothing new there.

In the past 6 years Trump has restacked 'ALL 6 Governors' of his Postal Service.
The profits are donated back to Trump (No! Not Joking) Trump is #1 Postal crook!
March $28m for Covid 'campaign style' 130m mailouts with Presidential Stamping.
Former Postal officials say you never go near Govt Admin...never seen nothin' like it.

US Election is held in a under a National Emergency (re: Communications Act)
This empowers sitting President with 100 fold power (fact) of any rival candidate.
President can deny anti Govt Propaganda - eg: Electoral Leaflets / web Sites.
Trump will argue he was defending USPS from relentless propaganda attack.

[ POSTrump WINS ] All heard Dems beg Trump to fund & rig the Postal Ballots! Yes!
Jed's Chads / Fake News / Emails...now it's POSTrump

Board of Elections prefer if you contact via Twitter...(This is true!)
We see Trump again out Twitter as USPS while milking both! (Reveals his hand!)
Basically informing all of Post & Twitter rorts to Win & all egged him on to do it!
tbb is no expert but isn't this a repeat of last election, just add Emergency Powers!

https://www.zdnet.com/article/trump-accuses-twitter-of-interfering-with-...
https://www.mcall.com/news/nation-world/ct-nw-nyt-trump-postal-service-v...

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factotum commented Monday, 3 Aug 2020 at 6:48pm
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zenagain commented Monday, 3 Aug 2020 at 8:01pm

I only just saw those links Facto.

If you live here, you will see that the Japanese are at best ignorant of the misdeeds of their predecessors and at worst indifferent. The Koreans on the other hand are rabid when it comes to Japan. Anything and everything from every angle is geared at painting the Japanese in a negative light and since Moon Jae-in came in and basically turned their economy to shit, he's been ramping up the nationalism. Japanese kids love everything Korean and Japanese housewives can't get enough of the Korean soap operas. Go figure.

Anyway, Japan has formally apologised several times and paid restitution in the millions to compensate the victims (bear in mind the comfort women were provided by Korean middle-men, an often overlooked fact) but corruption has seen very little of this money reach the victims. Also, there is a weekly protest outside the Japan embassy that has basically been an exercise in teaching hate insofar one of the last remaining comfort women has condemned the protests and wants no affiliation with them. Yoon Mi Hyang, the organiser has used this as a platform to step into politics but she is also accused of embezzling funds that were raised for the victims.

Finally, at least Japan have admitted and tried to make amends, this is is where Korean hypocrisy enters into it (btw I am not anti-Korean), tens of thousands of Vietnamese women and girls were raped, exploited and sold into indentured servitude during the Vietnamese war. A whole generation of Vietnamese half-bloods have grown up pariah's in their own society. To this day Korea have never even acknowledged their existence let alone rightfully compensated them.

I hope I don't come across is biased, it's just that no side is squeaky clean when it comes to war and the atrocities associated with it.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jan/19/women-raped-b...

https://theworldnews.net/jp-news/ex-comfort-woman-in-s-korea-criticizes-...

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udo's picture
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udo commented Monday, 3 Aug 2020 at 8:34pm

Paging Jim Banks
Up Next - Four Corners - The Truth About 5G

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factotum commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 12:38pm

Zen, I was interested in the symbolic tit for tat, and the grounding in history, that I daresay not many Australians would be aware of.

I knew about Unit 731 previously, but not the cultural impacts for not just Koreans, but Russians, and especially the Chinese. And before WWII too.

Why would Abe be photographed in such a way?

Unless you believe it was mere coincidence?

Nationalism is truly the last refuge of the scoundrel...especially politically, and on such a (grand) scale.

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zenagain commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 1:14pm

I hear what you say Facto- my wife is deaf when it comes to Japanese brutality committed during WWII, however as you know the victors write the history and if anyone thinks the US or Russians or Aussies whoever are above reproach, they're deluding themselves.

3 out of my wifes 4 uncles died in WWII, one ironically at the same place one of mine did- Kokoda, the other was a 16 yo kamikaze who barely got off the ground and the other died after the war in 1946 in a Russian labour camp. Recently we were tasked with cleaning out her deceased Aunts place and we came across his death certificate (see pic).

Yes, I guess i'm a little biased when it comes to Japan/Korean/Chinese hostility but if you live here it's reported daily any petty bloody thing. It's a constant game of one-upmanship. Abe is a bit of a shit-stirrer in that regard, however for the most part the Japanese have shown contrition and paid reparations which Korea has not. China have for over 100 straight days have been sending their planes and ships into Senkaku trying to goad the Japs into a response. Mate, it's bloody dangerous and most people around the world have no idea this is going on.

ps thanks for getting back to me. Have a good one.

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zenagain commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 1:17pm

PS-nobody in the west will admit this, but the Japanese occupation of the Korean peninsula fast tracked their economy by decades and definitely contributed to the economic powerhouse they've become today.

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factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 4:44pm

Wow!

I guess we got this though...

And I watched Chaplin's The Great Dictator last night.

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zenagain commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 5:41pm

I just finished up reading about Unit 731 and it's disturbing to say the least. In my closeted little world I was totally naive to its existence. I just asked my wife about it and the extent that she's aware of it is that there's a novel and just like the Rape of Nanking, that it's overblown and embellished. I guess that's how oblivious the average Japanese person is to their wartime past.

I suppose I like to live in todays world as do most Japanese and with the exception of a few government hawks and a very tiny extreme right nationalist cohort, the average Japanese person doesn't like to talk about the past. There's just some things in Japan you don't talk about. Most Japanese I find are quite pessimistic and their basic wish is for a peaceful future whilst remaining dismissive of the past.

Edit: Do you think that the jet numbered 731 is coincidental or do you think Abe did that on purpose? In my minds eye, if so, I think it's reprehensible that he could do such a thing. I can't comprehend that. I'd be interested to know the timing of that pic and did it in anyway coincide with the strong anti-Japanese sentiment that was occurring around 2012-13. Rightly or wrongly, pretty shitty way to go about things.

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factotum commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 6:08pm
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zenagain commented Tuesday, 4 Aug 2020 at 6:51pm

Well based on that, nationalist sentiment is rising here. Abe is pushing for the constitution to be amended so the JSDF can launch an attack on an aggressor rather than be constitutionally bound to only react in self defense. Tellingly, the Japanese percieve they are surrounded by hostility and are strengthening diplomatic ties with the US, India and Australia in addition to the other SE Asian nations. I failed to mention that to appeal to Moon Jae-in's increasingly nationalist rhetoric, Korean courts (basically a foregone conclusion) are conducting show trials and are freezing and seizing Japanese assets within Korea. In a tit for tat response, Japan has taken Korea off their 'White list', basically tying up Korean imports with red tape and increasing their CODB. China since the distraction of covid are trying to goad the Japanese into a response with daily incursions into Japanese territorial waters not just in Senkaku but Japanese waters to the north with their armed fishing flotilla's. China is basically strip mining the sea of Japan for squid and sanma with catches down 80% steadily since 2016 and as of this year ramping the aggression up again.

Anyway, rambling- I don't know which is worse, China and Korea fostering hatred of the Japanese with staunchly anti-Japanese textbooks in school or Japan ignoring their brutal history with most young people totally oblivious to the dirty deeds of their forebears?

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Westofthelake commented Wednesday, 5 Aug 2020 at 8:47am

Unbelievable footage of explosion in Beirut today

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 5 Aug 2020 at 8:53am

Hmmm. Cautious (and responsible!) reportage of the cause of that horrendous explosion.

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factotum commented Wednesday, 5 Aug 2020 at 11:21am
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 5 Aug 2020 at 11:50am

I heard it’s a false flag attack bankrolled by Bill Gates with the aim of clearing the Beirut port area so as to make way for a 5G data storage and dissemination facility.

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seaslug commented Wednesday, 5 Aug 2020 at 1:17pm

Firken hell, how's that pressure wave

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truebluebasher commented Friday, 7 Aug 2020 at 1:00pm

Following text is confronting by it's very nature..
Timeline ramps events to recent explosion.
If retelling offends anyone...tbb will remove said content!

From tbb -Aug 1st 2020 - Kaboom > Oil Wars Continue...
(Syria Oil wars)
1983 Beirut US Barracks is Bombed 241 die {RIP}
2006 (2nd) Lebanon War > US evacuates it's citizens (offshore) from Beirut
Signing a joint Naval waters partnership to protect territorial Oil & Gas
2013 Israel Port of Haifa Ammonia Tanks / Hezbollah : "We could Nuke Haifa in one strike!"
Israel ... thanks for the warning...removed! [ All knew of Beirut A/N danger! ].
27 Sept 2018 -Israel shows Map of 3 Missiles sites in Beirut Hadi Harbour
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-03/benjamin-netanyahu-points-to-map-...

*Google Earth : 24/7 All nations Defence pit lane + ( missile bunkers )
24/7 Diesel Tankers berth alongside Ammonium Nitrate (All see Deadly Combo)

30 April 2019 - US Hub Med Platform (5mile buffer off Catania Sicily )
https://www.workers.org/2019/04/42111/
https://www.thebalanceeveryday.com/installation-overview-naval-air-stati...
Sept 2019 - Iran Houthi Rebels ? knock out 2x Saudi Oil Fields - 5.7m Barrels /Day
(Sept) Response- US RAMAGE 24hr drop of Defence munitions in Beirut Port.
Note: Specialised Anti Missile Ship ( Goodwill? ) Defence Strike munitions drop.
US $1.7b Navy spend on Lebanese Defence since 2006 > Joint Oil defence plan.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1554716/middle-east
11th Dec- Brexit UK ramps up 'All Level ties' with Lebanon ....pushing Defence supplies .
UK Sonatrach supply 70% of Lebanese diesel > April - Fuel Contamination halts Supply.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-12/11/c_138623852.htm
(Covid)
16 March 2020 - Italian Air Force send a clear message to World now closing in on Med!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4tY4VFfdyk
22 March - Italy needs Oil / Meds will partner with EU / US / Russia / Turkey (Any!)
France & Germany are trying to keep them on side. (US checks that!)
18 May -Italy has New Aircraft Carriers but few Aircraft (Hence the Air Show + US)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/05/18/italys-getting-two-airc...
1st June -Turkey threaten strike on French Ship if they block Syrian weapons drop.
9th June -Turkish Navy Sub stalks Sardinia in ...Italian Waters.
Note: Turks & Russia have been buttering up Italy.
https://twitter.com/itamilradar/status/1270312573179699201
17th June - US pull Troops from Germany to Italy > Hub Med "Platform"
Strategic for Libya Oil Ports + Med access to Syria via (Ally Beirut Port)
12th July - Egypt sends warning to Turkey
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/egyptian-naval-drill-was-message-to-tu...

tbb : "Everyone is ready to press a button to blow something up!"

29th July- Lebanon accuses Israel of provoking border escalation...
(Israel / US) interference of UN Southern troops / UNIFIL mission renewal is 31st Aug..
https://apnews.com/75bb712d8f1016deb4b8d46aa452358d
31st July- US confirms fighter Jets buzzed (Beirut to Tehran) Passenger Plane.
Passengers are left critical in terrorist act...Iran threatens action against US.
https://apnews.com/49a61343c02c19b53092bc8d944c5934
2nd Aug 2020 - Trump signs Oil deal with SDF for Syrian Oil
Delta Crescent Energy LLC, Delaware...seems it didn't go as well as planned!
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/03/delta-crescent-energy-syrian-oi...
3rd Aug- 'Lebanon headed for a collapse'.
https://apnews.com/dfd6b687da750f7f7c971e04a2bb0daf
4th Aug- Lebanon is in Darkness People confront Govt on Power Crisis.(From Oct)
Rationing ramped in June...Lebanon relies on Ports shipping Cartel Diesel.
Accused of onselling Oil at higher price to Syria!
https://apnews.com/20befc2d33dbdffd5623e8384b0c0192
5th Aug - {R.I.P}
Port or Beirut imports 60% + Grain Silos 85% (7 months supply)
A/N + Private Companies Diesel Oil stores line the port + E/W Missile Stores
Note: A/N + Diesel on a concentrated burn like in this Port Depot...Kaboom.
Since 2013 (Depot 12) Ammonium Nitrate is rotting away & secured by a lazy knot strap.
Not Today! A fire has started & Fireman can't penetrate Door 12.
Reports Fire started by Welding Work Depot 12 > Port GM "Yes! Maintenance work on Door 12
Town heroes try Sledge hammers & Jimmy Bars...Vid' shows knot tie shed 12 is now a fortress?
https://nypost.com/2020/08/06/beirut-firefighters-pictured-entering-ware...
Port Master would have keys? 100% Lockout with bomb ticking! ( Accident? )
Lights match with miles of time to escape blast & Headlines...as per plan!

Explosion takes out Lebanon's Oil / Power / E/W Missiles / Grain / Hospital. {RIP}

Notes: Mid east Oil was merely put on hold..post corona power plays are mounting.

President Trump: "My Generals say it was a bomb of some kind." [ Which Bomb?]
Trump / Israel power plays are baiting up a pathetic Wartime President Poll Boost.
Please World! Do not reward this creeps!

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mikehunt207 commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 12:03am

Its not called terrorism when Israel is possibly involved.

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factotum commented Monday, 24 Aug 2020 at 2:43pm
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blowfly commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 8:30am

Nuclear-Arsenals

Hiroshima Day 2020

In a time of pandemic it is easy to forget that there are other issues which may, in the long term, be much more significant than the impact of the virus. Whatever the death toll from COVID 19 might finally be, it would be dwarfed in the first hours of a nuclear war.

On August 6th 1945 a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima destroying the city centre and starting a fire storm. Between 70 and 80 thousand people died in the first few minutes, tens of thousands more in the immediate aftermath and tens of thousands more as time passed from radiation exposure and cancer. It is an event that needs to be remembered in a world containing about 14,000 nuclear weapons, most of them orders of magnitude more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

There are many reasons why people are now less concerned about nuclear weapons than they once were, but none of them are valid. The nuclear arsenals of the US and Russia are still capable of ending civilisation, if not rendering humans extinct. The danger has not gone away and the leaderships of nuclear armed nations seem less capable than ever of the sophisticated diplomacy necessary to maintain the effective deterrence of the balance of terror or mutually assured destruction.

At the same time the network of treaties to limit nuclear weapons has been largely removed. This began with President George W. Bush’s withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2001. More recently Trump has withdrawn from arms treaties including the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Agreement and the Iran nuclear deal. If the New START accord expires, as it is due to, in early 2021, there will be no treaty between the US and Russia limiting nuclear weapons or providing verification of their stockpiles. The US has not ratified the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and recently Trump has suggested that the US may start nuclear testing again.

One of the most common delusions about nuclear weapons is that no-one would actually use them. This is clearly not the case. We may never know how close the Soviert Union, China or North Korea have come to unleashing such weapons, but in the case of the US the evidence is clear that both military and political leaders have been willing to use nuclear weapons.

In 1950, President Truman publicly stated that the use of nuclear weapons was under "active consideration" against Communist Chinese targets during the Korean War.
In 1953, President Eisenhower threatened the use of nuclear weapons to end the Korean War if the Communist Chinese refused to negotiate.
The United States issued several nuclear threats against the People's Republic of China in the 1950s to force the evacuation of outlying islands and the cessation of attacks against Quemoy and Matsu
In 1972 President Nixon considered using nuclear wapons in Vietnam.
In 2002, the Bush administration declared that they were prepared to strike with nuclear missiles against Iraq if biological or chemical weapons were used against American troops or their allies during the Iraq War.

So we know that there are people willing to use nuclear weapons. But even were that not true, we would still have grave cause for concern. Since 1950, there have been 32 accidents involving nuclear weapons. They have been involved in plane crashes. They have been dropped and had the high explosive triggers ignited. They have been lost at sea.

Even more concerning are the false reports of nuclear attacks that could easily have prompted a nuclear response.
Nov. 9, 1979, the U.S. Defense Department detected an imminent nuclear attack through the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD). U.S. bomber and missile forces went on full alert, and the emergency command post, known as the “doomsday plane,” took to the air.
On June 3, 1980, at 3 a.m., National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski was told that NORAD computers were reporting that 2,200 Soviet missiles had been launched against the United States. One minute before he planned to call President Jimmy Carter to recommend an immediate U.S. nuclear retaliatory response, word came through that the NORAD message was a false alarm caused by software simulating a Soviet missile attack that was inexplicably transferred into the live warning system at the command’s headquarters.
On Sept. 26, 1983, a newly installed early-warning system erroneously signaled that the United States had launched a small salvo of missiles toward the Soviet Union. The officer in charge defied standard military protocol and refused to pass the alert to Moscow because “when people start a war, they don’t start it with only five missiles.”
On Jan. 25, 1995, a large weather rocket launched off the coast of Norway created the appearance on Russian radars of an initial phase of a U.S. nuclear attack. Russian President Boris Yeltsin reported that the launch prompted him to activate Russia’s mobile nuclear command system.

Humans make mistakes and they can have tragic consequences. The present pandemic has provided numerous cases of misjudgment, as well as cases in which the available evidence was ignored. It has also provided evidence that some political leaders simply do not care about the human cost of their policies. It is worth remembering, on at least one day a year, that we still live in a world in which these behaviours could cause a nuclear catastrophe and the end of anything resembling our current civilisation.

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stunet commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 11:18am

Fans of Jon Frank's portraits and surf-noir rejoice! He and Sean Doherty just bought shares, along with Kim Sundell, in 'Surfing World'.

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truebluebasher commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 12:02pm

Nuke cont....(World Troops)
Well written Blowfly & chilling wake up call to World Wide Cold War scenario.
Tensions mount into universal Oil power plays.(Med / South Seas)

Brexit > EU is in tatters > Nato troop numbers plummet > Breaches are up!
EU [SOS] > 5 Eyes is being considered to Salvage NATO.

Troop numbers (* Openly Engaged / # Severely under resourced )

[ Nuke Nations ]
N.Korea 7.8m / India 5.1m / Russia 3.5m / China 3.2m / *US 2.2m
Pakistan 940K / *Israel 642K / France 385K / # UK 230K

[ No Nukes Troops ]
S'Korea 6.7m / Vietnam 5.5m
Iran 2m / Brazil 2m / Taiwan 1.8m / Egypt 1.3m / Ukraine 1.2m / Indonesia 1.1m
*Turkey 900K / Thailand 700K / Algeria 467K / Belarus-Malaysia-Mexico 400K+
10 Rising Nations 300-400K Troops

[ No Nukes Nato ] (EUCOM) Now moved to Brussels
(200+) : Greece 370K / # Italy 365K / Germany 210K

Could be that cash strapped Nations use the bomb more often as diplomacy.
Many feel the world just witnessed post Covid Diplomacy.

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factotum commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 12:26pm

Pilger.

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/08/03/atomic-bombings-at-75-john-pilger-...

Interesting comments below the article too (as always)

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blowfly commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 1:43pm

Thanks facto. The real history doesn't get much coverage these days. The attitudes that led to the use of nuclear weapons against Japan are still the same today. Most people know that Curtis Le May was the model for Dr Strangelove but this bloke was probably even worse.

" General Thomas Power was the architect of the airborne alert program of SAC that ensured that a proportion of the nuclear-armed strategic bombers were always aloft so as to survive a first strike.

When RAND proposed a counterforce strategy, which would require SAC to restrain itself from striking Soviet cities at the beginning of a war, Power countered with:
Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!"

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evosurfer commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 5:31pm

No doubt nuclear war today would end civilization including those
Chinese RAT bastards thats currently destroying the world economy
our freedom and way of life but I think people should remember Japan
attacked America and Australia was invading pacific Islands and Indonesia
with intentions of invading Australia. If USA didnt drop the bomb we would
be speaking Japanese if not all murdered by them.

IF im not surfing im racing

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 5:39pm

evosurfer, just wondering if you start a lot of sentences with "I'm not a racist but,..."

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

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blowfly commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 6:34pm

"If USA didnt drop the bomb we would be speaking Japanese if not all murdered by them."

At the time of the bombings Japan had been driven out of the Pacific Islands and Indonesia. US forces had landed on Okinawa. The Soviet Union had invaded Manchuria and were threatening to invade northern Japan. The US had already intercepted diplomatic cables which stated that Japan was willing to surrender under conditions similar to those that were finally accepted after the bombings.....but why let the truth get in the way of prejudice? The DOGS of war, (and their pissant supporters) are always hungry.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 7:18pm

blowfly, your idea of history is a bit off. "was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?"

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

JQ's picture
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JQ commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 7:42pm

Wow, what a staggeringly poor, narrow understanding of history you have Evo. Breathtaking ignorance.

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evosurfer commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 8:08pm

JQ your right I forgot to add if USA didnt intercept and defeat the Japanese navy
in the battle of Coral Sea which had a huge impact in saving Australia.
Or did I dream all this and Japan wasnt involved in world war two.
The problem now is nothing will be able to stop China.

IF im not surfing im racing

adam12's picture
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adam12 commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 8:54pm

It is argued by some that mutually assured destruction in fact rendered war between the great powers obsolete and enforces world order by forcing antagonists to the negotiating table or into diplomacy, however belligerent. That doesn't account for rogue actors or a mistake or failure of technology. Also disturbing is the fact that after 911, the time between entering the codes and launch by a US president is only a few minutes, there is no fail safe, there is no oversight, no one can stop him (or her) if that is what they decide to do.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 8:56pm

"I forgot to add if USA didnt intercept and defeat the Japanese navy
in the battle of Coral Sea which had a huge impact in saving Australia."

True, but since in happened in 1942 and the bombs were dropped in 1945, it is hard to see the relevance.

"The problem now is nothing will be able to stop China."

From doing what? Vigorously pursuing its economic and political interests, like every other dominant power in recorded history? What we can be reasonably sure of is that as it is doing so well economically, it has no reason to start a war. Having China as the dominant regional power is discomforting for Australia as we are so culturally different, but history doesn't stop or play favourites. We have to learn to live with that and the pressure is ultimately on us. We currently have some bargaining power due to our status as a reliable exporter of resources but how long that lasts is uncertain and depencds to a sign ificant degree on how the relationship is managed. This does not mean ignoring human rights issues or our national interests. It does mean dealing with them in a realistic and diplomatic manner to maximise the influence we have......or we can go full friggin' Donald and just mouth off and insult them to suit our domestic politics.......that should work! Not!

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etarip commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 8:57pm
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etarip commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 9:12pm

“ This does not mean ignoring human rights issues or our national interests. It does mean dealing with them in a realistic and diplomatic manner to maximise the influence we have.....”

You been reading the news mate? I think your view of a relatively benign / benevolent hegemonic China is naive in the extreme. Your assertion that as long as we remain a ‘reliable’ exporter of resources, while maintaining influence on human rights, adherence to international norms, supporting smaller SE Asian and Pacific nations etc we’ll be OK just isn’t supported by recent events in the region, nor by most respected commentators opinions on the matter. .

My question to you is, why has the PRC deviated from its hitherto successful strategy of ‘hide and bide’ to Xi’s aggressive, multi-front, nationalistic-driven expansionist agenda? You call out Trump (and Australia by association) while ignoring a significant shift in China’s policy setting.

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Vic Local commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 9:31pm

etarip and blowfly, you blokes both seem to be taking a long term view of geo-politics. It's the short term that Australia needs to be concerned with. I respectfully suggest the next six months are not the time to pick sides. Trump is a serious loose cannon, and who knows what he will do in the lead up to the election. If he does lose in 2020, there's a few months of transition which will be frightening. This is a guy who will do anything to hold onto power. He's turned troops on his own people. Starting a conflict is not out of the realms of possibility.
China is highly unlikely to do something crazy that requires a reaction in the short term. They have absolutely nothing to gain.
It's simply not in Australia's interest to jump in bed with Trump while he sabre rattles at China at the best of times. It's crazy to do it as he gets even more erratic in the lead up to an election. Unfortunately The Australian government has hitched our wagon to a deranged lunatic, when sitting on the sidelines was a much more sensible option.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

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blowfly commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 9:32pm

"I think your view of a relatively benign / benevolent hegemonic China is naive in the extreme."

Where did I say that? In my opinion no political entity is now, or has ever been, benign. Political parties, nations and alliances will act with great malevolence when they perceive it to be in their interest.

".......why has the PRC deviated from its hitherto successful strategy of ‘hide and bide’ to Xi’s aggressive, multi-front, nationalistic-driven expansionist agenda?"

The previous strategy lifted China out of poverty and has put it in a position to become the dominant global power in the 21st century. In my judgement that is inevitable. It will now move to exert its influence in a way analagous to previous powers such as the Britain and the US. You may care to note that there was nothing particularly benign in the way they exerted their power. My point is that Australia should act in a way that best serves our natiional interest. We are hardly in a position to take an aggressive position on human rights given our historical and current abuses. Nor would that be the most effective way to influence Chinese policy. The current anti-Chinese rhetoric expresses legitimate concerns in a manner designed to exploit them for domestic political advantage rather than to maximise our influence on China. ....... but sing from the songbook they are selling you if you must.

etarip's picture
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etarip commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 10:15pm

VL: we’re not picking sides in the next 6 months. The sides are already picked, broadly. But I certainly agree that we don’t need to be signing any blank cheques. I think that the government are hedging their bets tbh. I don’t think anyone is tying their cart to the Trump horse at the moment.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/independence-actually-marise-...

Blowfly: I’m not actually sure what course you’re suggesting that we take. What is this position that we take that is in our national interest? I don’t disagree with your view that there is an unhelpful element of China-bashing in the media, and tolerated by elements within the government. But, you might care to note that there is no shortage of somewhat malign activity that Is driving some of this commentary.

FWIW, I think your assertion about the ‘inevitability’ of China’s ascent to being the ‘dominant global power’ is somewhat hyperbolic. There are some deep social, political and economic faultlines in China, none of which are likely to be resolved by conflict.

Oh, and your last line: “but sing from the songbook they are selling you if you must.“ Do you deliberately cultivate this ‘condescending fuckwit’ persona or does it come naturally?

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Thursday, 6 Aug 2020 at 10:51pm

The latter.

JQ's picture
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JQ commented Friday, 7 Aug 2020 at 6:14am
blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Friday, 7 Aug 2020 at 8:39am

"What is this position that we take that is in our national interest?"

Well Marise Payne made a contribution recently when she refused a US invitation to join a freedom of navigation exercise planned to sail close to disputed territory. Australia needs to be seen to act independently rather than under US direction. It would also help if politicians did not use China bashing as a convenient way to make headlines. Australia's call for an inquiry into the origins of COVID 19 was a classic example of how not to conduct diplomacy. A scientific enquiry into the issue was always going to occur. It did not need Australia to shoot itself in the foot by aligning itself with the nutters claiming it was produced in a Chinese lab, which was the clear sub-text. There is still substantial anti-Asian racism in Australia so the purpose of the call for an inquiry was just the usual dog whistle to make sure the COALition holds on to the racist vote. There is no recipe for maintaining good international relationships it requires clear thinking and agile diplomacy as different situations arise.

"Do you deliberately cultivate this ‘condescending fuckwit’ persona or does it come naturally?"
It's my natural response to shallow, disrespectful strawman arguments such as the one you started with.

etarip's picture
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etarip commented Friday, 7 Aug 2020 at 9:20am

So, option B then?

Thanks for referring back to the link that I provided. My point remains - you clearly have little clue about the relatively nuanced approach that the government (with bipartisan support) is taking on broader China relationship, a subset of which is the increasingly fractious US-China relationship.
Your arguments contain emotive, partisan and shallow examples and a series of non-sequiturs. Shouting COALition and referring to racist dog-whistling does not actually demonstrate that you comprehend the subtleties of diplomacy, the competing pressures that Australia faces.

You accuse me of presenting a ‘disrespectful’ argument? Exactly what part of your demeanour and approach deserves respect? You’re not at in a position of authority at school anymore BB. Finally, you started with the disrespect on this occasion with your reference to ‘singing from the songbook’. Remember that? Time to take another break?

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blowfly commented Friday, 7 Aug 2020 at 2:49pm

"Time to take another break?"

Yeh probably, when people put words into my mouth then get the shits when I bite back it's probably time, plus there's andypandy lurking in the background working up his courage to have another shot and no doubt blowin will blow back in when he recovers from the shot up the arse Stu gave him. So yeh, good idea. See ya!

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/america-evangelical-crusade...