Grant Miller: On the surf industry - Part 2
This is Part 2 of an interview with Grant Miller. To read the first part click here.
How could the industry change to maintain the kind of quality that you are committed to?
Surfboard shapers are renowned for being highly individualistic and as a result we have never been able to get together as a group to lobby the government for import duty changes or for the point of origin to be marked clearly on the boards. So thinking about these matters I sometimes feel like water running over a stone. It’s difficult to see how things could change.
My intention here is to increase the awareness of people who are looking to buy surfboards. When people have more awareness of the issues then they have more of a free choice. Otherwise they are operating on limited information, distortions of information, and sometimes outright lies. I think it would be very appropriate if all imported surfboards were marked: Made In China, Made In Thailand, Made in Bali, whatever the case, so that when you go and buy a surfboard you can at least know where it came from. Maybe that doesn’t matter to you, but if it does, then you have the information there in front of you.
There are quite a few Australian manufacturers who are having their boards built overseas now but there is no point of origin on the boards so they are being passed off as made in Australia when they’re not. They are made overseas in different conditions with highly variable build quality but this is not generally known because only the brand is on the board.
People who are buying on the basis of brand need to know this. An overseas board might only last them a year or 18 months whereas a well-built Australian board can last them 5 or 6 years. They are not getting that information because vested interests are doing their best to make sure it is not easily available. The more information people have, the more they can go into shops and ask the hard questions “ Where were these boards made? Why is this particular board better for me than that board? What are the downsides of these designs or materials?” And if you don’t trust what people are telling you, then walk away and find people that you can trust.
Given the difficulties facing you how do you feel about continuing in the business?
I’ve spent most of my adult life designing and shaping surfboards and even after all these years I still love what I do. When I’ve just shaped a board and I hold it up and look at the foil, it’s just a fantastic feeling. I still love the smell of the resin and the rush when I paddle out on a new board for the first time. Steve Zoeller glasses my boards and he has been a glasser for nearly 50 years. Martyn Worthington does the airbrushing and he is another veteran. We are close business associates and we are also friends. I like meeting all the different people who come to me for boards and they are all different, everyone has their own story and I love getting to know them a little bit and making the best possible board I can for them. I listen to their ideas and thoughts and turn them onto mine and they end up getting great boards.
I think what I do has great value and great meaning for people that take their surfing seriously and I really appreciate the trust they put in me. And I care about our industry obviously, but if none of us speak up then we can’t whinge about where the industry is going. If I can contribute to greater awareness and scrutiny of the industry I’ll be satisfied.
Comments
I've enjoyed the two part interview very much and as a shaper, craftsman and idividual I respect Grant very much. But one point I disagree on is he states that a well made Australian board could last 5-6 years as opposed to an overseas made board lasting 12-18 months. I think this is thinly disguised jingoism at best. I have a couple of 'overseas' brand boards that are still going strong and are a regular part of my quiver. In fact, I haven't bought a new board in 3 years and the only reason I'm looking around is that I want to try something new.
I think it would have been more appropriate to just come out and say buy Australian as a way of supporting the Australian industry. I don't think it's a question of quality because in my experience I have no issues with the quality of foreign made boards. Maybe I've been lucky.
As an aside, where I live a handshaped board costs upwards of $1200AUD and as I'm limited in time when I go back home, I usually just buy off the rack and have done so for many years. For the most part I usually have an eye for what works for me and most times have been pretty spot on with my choices. Of course, when I get back home I will re-establish a surfer/shaper relationship.
The article says a couple of times that the quality of overseas built boards is inconsistent.... "highly variable build quality". You may well have been lucky that your boards have held together.
Mate if you had ever met Grant and talked to him about boards or anything else, there is no way you'd describe anything he has said here as "jingoism".
And anyone who has experienced his level of service and innovative designs, wouldn't want to go to anyone else again.
Another point is that the imported boards you are surfing may even be copies of designs by our master shapers. Obviously, this is a blight on the integrity of the industry and going to a master shaper, at the same time as ensuring the best way to have a really suitable board, is the best way to support the guys whose decades of experience keeps them coming up with exceptional designs.
Polly, totally cool and I agree for the most part. Having never met Grant personally I'm sure he is everything you say.
In my experience, I have not been on the receiving end of this 'inconsistent build quality' you speak of. In the last 10 years I've bought 3 Channel is (2 epoxy, 1 pu), 2 Firewires, A Simon Anderson, A Dahlberg, A Harvey and 3 Nevs, all off the rack. I've also got a couple of Japanese boards as well. Also I've got an unsurfed custom hybrid fish thingy I've never ridden shacked up with my bro back home. It was shaped by a mate of his that he met in Fiji. Anyway, all of those boards are/were well made and lasted about the amount of time I would expect and all were well suited to my size and style of surfing. With the exception of the unridden quad, I haven't had a custom in years but upon settling down will definitely establish a shaper/customer realtionship. I've always been meaning to.
My reasons for buying these boards purely are price and convenience, plus as you can tell, I'm a bit of a 'Brand' board buyer. But those shapers above are all great shapers and these I'm sure are computer copies of great shapes of theirs. I have no problem with that.
I sincerely wish Grant all the best and I hope he continues to flourish. I think there will always be work around for the Grants of this industry though, I woudln't worry too much.
Zen,
That your boards have lasted as well as expected and you’ve been happy with them is one thing. I have read of guys who’ve had Asian made boards last only weeks or months, and others say they last well. Variable. There’s more to buying stuff than price, convenience and how long it lasts.
That would be why you are going to go to a shaper next. I hope you are as stoked with the board/s you get from a shaper.
Personally, I just don’t like seeing any of our industries suffer from cheaply made imports. And the surfboard industry is one of our iconic industries.
As Grant said it won’t matter to everyone where their boards are made. But to a lot of people, it does. It especially matters if people are misled by marketing into thinking they are buying an Australian made product, when it’s an import. A pet peeve of mine.
It isn’t jingoism to say proper labelling of the origin of surfboards would be good.
Jingoism is maybe attributable to someone like Tony Abbott, and his ridiculous, ‘you bet you are, you bet I am’, threat to shirt-front Putin.
...‘the Grants of the industry will always have enough work’, while this may be true, it ignores the fact that master shapers who have spent decades honing their craft to where it is an art, clearly are losing ground to dodgy marketing and cheaply made imports. It's a sad state of affairs for the long term health of the industry.
The fact the double-edged sword of technology is allowing the iconic artisan technology that took decades to develop, to be taken out of the country to Asia and mass produced, and even allowing those with no knowledge of surfboard design/shaping to set up business and flood the market with gimmickry and poorly built boards, is a real concern in terms of where the industry is going in the future.
I know that while ever Grant is shaping there will be those who appreciate that the experience, ethics and dedication is rare and worth so much more than the dollars paid for the service.
Great write up, and thanks for the insights Grant.
No question that we have to support our local shapers, and why the hell wouldn't we...??
I've had my WaterSkate for nearly 8 years now, it's travelled through south America with me and is my board of choice for most of the local summer. It's not showing any signs of giving up on me and I expect to have many more summers of fun with it.
As for the cost of local V import, a quick check on Grant's website and I notice I can pick up a new WaterSkate for $780. If I recall correctly that's only about $50 more then when I bought mine all those years ago.
I have no idea what an imported board is worth or what the big surf stores charge these days, I've only ever bought boards direct from the shaper.
But I do know that for under $800 you can ring up and talk to the man himself, you're supporting a real person and buying a bit of gear that will last many years.
CNC machines are a part of the modern surf industry, it's very hard to find totally hand crafted boards these days and I guess that's fair enough.
But why on earth would you buy some junk pumped out from a factory overseas that doesn't care what you surf or how the board rides or even how long it lasts?
why pete..??/ baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
100% handshaped every time Sam Egan.
Sam Egan one of the finest craftsman Australia has produced..great bds!!!
I dont know but i think most shapers who are worth there salt are doing alright from the ones ive spoken to and cheaper imported boards really dont affect them that much.You can buy a blank ,shape it yourself and have it glassed for around $350 so im sure that most shapers can make pretty good coin from half dozen boards a week as there costs would be cheaper i would think unless they have a lot of team riders but then it comes down to volumne.Anyway its good to try different boards and i cant imagine riding the same board for years on end....try different designs and spice it up.
There's a lot of differing views on the import/buy local debate..... notwithstanding, my concern remains with the impact of the increasing market share that the cheap imports are having on the ongoing development and viability of the up and coming shapers, as well as the old guys who are putting 40 years of knowledge and craft into every board they make.
Ultimately, will the boards and those surfing in 10 or 20 years time be the losers if the machines win and the ranks of shapers increasingly thins out due to the impact of cheap machined o/s boards?
Look around at other aspects of contemporary society and the same type of problem exists through the 'advancements of technology', and the impact it is having on manufacturing jobs, across all manufacturing sectors.
To me, this was the main messages in part 2. Surfers might wake up one day, and it is too late and this form of manufacturing in Australia joins the long roll call of the manufacturing deceased.
So maybe the surf industry does need to get together and thrash out some agreed plans with some future legislative back-up where both technology and traditional shaping can survive without one killing off the other?
Or is it a case of it's too hard and no action = certain future demise of surfboard manufacturing in Australia?
In our life time, trade has changed from local to global. Nothing is stopping you from getting on the internet and buying something overseas. For me a pair of thongs, tee shirt etc is fine. But I would never buy something as individual as a surfboard online. A complete waste of time & money in my view. It will be a tragedy if very talented local shapers dry up because of this trend in sales & marketing. After all price is quickly forgotten about when the quality of a product or design isn't there. Great article, thanks guys.
I know everywhere is different but where I am- Northern NSW- small scale surfboard manufacturing is thriving. Never been more shapers and high quality boards.
seems like the newbies buy the pop-outs and people with a clue are buying locally shaped sleds with Firewires bridging the gap, so I think the market has naturally sorted itself out.
"You can buy a blank ,shape it yourself and have it glassed for around $350 ..."
Actually, you can buy a blank, have it machine cut, and then glassed for around $350.
" ... Northern NSW- small scale surfboard manufacturing is thriving. Never been more shapers and high quality boards."
Yep. Small scale. Machine cut blanks to save time, then glassed inhouse, gives good margins ... machine cut blank @ $110, materials for glassing at say $90 ... so cost of board at $200 plus labour. Small scale doing all, selling at say $600 for a custom, leaves $400 for labour per board, say average of five boards a week, $2,000 gross profit. Small shed (rent ,electricity, and insurance, etc) at $500 per week, leaves a clear $1,500 per week ...
On a separate note, how much were boards in the 90's? I vaguely recall paying around $400 - $450 for custom boards. Let's use that, and say inflation of 2% compounded over the past 20 years ... that $450 board is equal to about $670 (ok, it's $668 and some cents for those counting) ... so, when boards have a RRP of $800 or thereabouts, I can't help but feel the hidden rip off.
EDIT - Been thinking about this today. Just looked up and did a calc using the RBA inflation calculator here: http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualDecimal.html
Using $450 cost in 1994 through to 2014 it calculates as $768.35 ...
I still feel ripped off with RRP prices at $800 :(
Theres a new spam ad popping up named; " disrupt surfboards " from $ 350 . The name says it all . When boogy boards first came out surfers hated them probably partly due to the factory made non customised product . Nowadays a buyer of a asian made cheap surfboards the same . They would snap first surf if u tried to use one in the waves here . Zena obviously doesnt fall off if his popouts are lasting . Its a sure sign of what sort of surfer you are if u have a "replica" popout made in china etc. But eventually i got a boogyboard just like the rest . And it works !
You know, I've been thinking about what you said that it's a sure sign of the surfer you are if you have a replica popout made in China. That's a pretty long bow to draw. I don't know where most of my boards have been made. I'd say 50/50 Australia/Asia. Maybe because I live in Asia and have done so for many years that I'm not so hung up on the Australia is better thing. For the record, last Australian made board I had fell apart within weeks with the FCS plugs pushing up through the deck and compressing pretty badly through the front foot. I liked how the board surfed though. My current Firewire, still going strong 3 years since bought (in Australia). Haven't got a clue where it was made. Both boards cost the same, surfed well but one of them I'm still riding, the other long gone.
I've been surfing for over 35 years now and while my life doesn't revolve around chasing slabs around the world or judging people I've never met I can tell you one thing- I know surfers who fucking rip who have never had a custom board in their lives. I also know alleged surfers (a couple in particular) who talk about 'their shaper' and seem to have a new board every month. 'This time I'm going to get 1/16 th shaved off the nose and add a little more concave through the tail and blah blah blah' the sad fact is, they can barely stand up. But because they bought an Australian board, by your logic they must be a more complete surfer?
You guys can bash Asia all you like, but the reality is Australia is not the centre of the universe. Economically, we a not even a blip on the radar. The chemicals that go into the glassing and blowing the blank of your OZ made boards, more than likely came from China. The car you're driving I'm guessing may be Japanese? The computer or laptop you're typing on no doubt has the chips and other components made in Taiwan or Korea? The clothes on your back? Bangladesh, Thailand, India, China? I know you love talking about fins. What Australian fins are you leaning towards now?
I will say it again, no doubt I will re-establish a surfer/shaper relationship upon my return, however in the meantime I have absolutely no regrets for my board choice. They work for me so if that's the sort of surfer I am so be it. I don't try and impress anyone, I'm past that. I just love surfing.
Well said Zen,kapow camel.
Zen,
From the rundown on your board collection there was no doubt you are probably a great surfer. How much experience or ability you have was not in question from my point of view.
Good luck to those guys buying a new board 'every month'...they must love their surfing too....:-)
I proudly drive an Australian made car, and the way they last, I’ll be driving one for another couple of decades yet.
True enough, we can barely buy anything made in Australia, and it’s getting harder all the time. Jeez...it’s getting harder to buy Australian food, and I’m really glad they have to label where products are from in other industries. It’s time that was standard in the surf industry, too.
I feel passionate about the demise of Australian industry in general, not only about an iconic cottage industry such as our surfboard industry.
I'm sure a lot of Australians feel the same, and it doesn't mean we think Australia is best or the centre of the Universe.
If there are a lot of Australian made boards that don’t last, too, just more reason for people to go to respected local shapers I reckon. It’s not Asia bashing to point out the variability of boards made there and if anyone thinks that's racist in some way, that would be a long bow to draw.
Having country of origin labelling on surfboards is just common sense, as it is in other industries.
All the best for another few decades of happy surfing.
Thanks polly, and don't worry there's no animosity here on my part.
I have absolutely no problem with country or origin labelling. I don't understand why it is so hard for both sides of politics in Australia. If EU countries can do it for agricultural products and the whole world can do it for a t-shirt or pair of jeans, seriously, how hard could it be to put on a surfboard?
You know, there's been heaps lately about different shapers and cheap Asian imports, I kind of feel guilty. Maybe I'm just a lazy bugger? I mentioned previously that I buy mostly on price and convenience but also a Japanese shaper will charge upwards of $1200AUD for a custom and don't get me started on brand boards, firewires, Lost, CI etc. $1400+ off the rack here. I find it hard to justify that much money based on my meagre earnings.
If I have any redeeming quality, I do buy most of my boards in Oz on my trips home converting all that lovely yen into Aussie dollars.
Also, still a proud Aussie, wouldn't want to be anything else.
Cool Zen. All the best to you mate.
You do have to wonder how hard it could be to have appropriate labelling.
I guess those who manufacture here and call for labelling changes are disregarded as self-interested, and those who are already manufacturing their boards os won't be campaigning for it anytime soon.
Must be interesting living over there, good thing you get to come back often enough though...:-)
Don't worry Caml, I fall off a lot:)
Zen, good call mate.
I'd prefer all things to be Aussie made but those days are over.
If you stated that you only employ Aussie gyprockers rather than Chinese you'd be derided eight ways till Sunday.
What's the difference between a ghost shaper pumping out your boards an ocean away whether they are Chinese or French ?
I've also had a pop out that I've ridden intermittently over a decade stand up beautifully.
I once bought an Aussie board and it snapped first surf before I'd even gotten out the back.
The days aren't quite over yet.
"What's the difference between a ghost shaper pumping out your boards an ocean away whether they are Chinese or French ?"
Difference would be price maybe....and both could mean that within a generation there are pretty well no master designer/shapers around anymore, if their craft is pushed out of the industry.
"If you stated that you only employ Aussie gyprockers rather than Chinese you'd be derided eight ways till Sunday."
True...you'd be called racist for sure.
It is fear of being labelled racist that is preventing opposition to all Australians having been thrown into a global market for Australian jobs over the last year, thanks to this government allowing unlimited use of 457 visa workers. That’s why we have instances of Asian workers here on 457 visas getting paid as little as $4 an hour in jobs that should be going to local people, on local wages. I am in no way racist, this is simply an appalling attack on Australian jobs, wages and conditions.
Just as having no country of origin labelling on surfboards and marketing them as if they are Australian made is an attack on the local surfboard manufacturing industry.
Proper labelling is the least we could have, to give buyers an informed choice.
The globalisation of jobs and manufacturing will bite us all in the butt eventually.
Yeah thats right zen . I got some too now, i meant in the old days it was uncool .when i was a grom i thought lid riders sucked . I wish i had another seaglass gsi !
the disposable foam products . Take away food
Purists like those who shape & ride there own boards . There is a wholesome feel to it
the best surfer is the one with biggest smile on face. I surfed snapper thru grennie low tide today, caught heaps, got dropped in more and new style bodysurfer with flippers and handplane blown away what u can do with no fins or handplane.. Whether u r on an apia, as i was for years, a dhd, wayne deane or mctavish, funs what it's all about, so seek out local shaper, be honest about your ability and smile all the way along the bank. surfing waves however, got to love it.
You're surfing again Dave? Thought that was very risky for you?
Great comment you made....my brother-in-law has the same condition that you have, extremely challenging.
You are an ace to be out there surfing.
thanks pollywaffle
took off on a real sucky bugger none of the boardriders wanted. got into high speed mode obviously in barrel and thought i could dive down and right, usually under the wave and pop out the back, but mistimed and got sucked back over the falls and flogged on the bank and just avoided mali rocks.
Luckily we had weird storm come thru so out of control swell and onshores, so i can rest up a bit.
all the best to your brother, i know how painful and debilitating it can be, that's why I am so thankful, if he ever surfer, I will get him a couple, hopefully without getting sucked back over the falls and sandblasted :)
Dave,
Hope you get some good surf soon after that one...cool you avoided the rocks.....rest up well!
yes zen, have funeral insurance, and will all sorted, better to die doing something i love than be stuck waiting for medical procedures. Have anklo spondylytisis (sp) where because have c3-c6 fusion, discs below have prolapsed and have lots of calcification down to to t1 and t2 and lumbar starting to calcify.. So could be found face down anytime but i have great faith in life that it will allow me my passion-only bodysurfing- and if i am to pass onto my next adventure it will be done wonderfully and peacefully. all is well, am taking medications that finally stop all the really bad pain, but take higher doses than stated, but so what, im in the water, happy as a virgin in a whorehouse and can function after a surf. alls well, i hope the same for you too zen again, enjoy life.
Cool Dave. Nice to hear.
Stay safe. Don't be in a hurry to get there;)
Replica popout = Stck bd. It doesn't really matter to shaper/designers who do all customs and no stock bds......
Firewires are the best Asian stock/popouts on the market. light strong , and vacuum bag tech... we can't do this in OZ as its too expensive........for stock bds!
small custom production.....personal service........quality bds.......
If you are a big manufacturer and need to sell stock bds to retailers.......and your business formula is big numbers small margins......that's where you get hurt with bds from Asia......as there is more margin for retailers from Asian made bds.....
I see nothing wrong or any moral dilemma over the acceptance of Asian made bds by surfers ...at the end of the day its the market/customer that decides .....its called capitalism....
Paging Blasphemy Rottmouth to the white courtesy phone.
Bring it;)
CU.