Webber Wave Pools begin work on their first wave pool
Webber Wave Pools are on the verge of firing their first shot in the wave pool war. Their long awaited venture now has a completion date and it's measured in months not years.
"The structural and mechanical enginnering is already under way," says Greg Webber, "while the civil work, the excavation of the lagoon, begins in six weeks."
The finished pool will measure 300m x 150m with a central island
When complete the wave pool will be a 300 metre by 150 metre 'looped linear' lagoon with central island housing the hull drive system.
It's this part of the operation, the hull drive system, that Webber believes is most crucial. A few years back Webber and Kelly Slater, via his Kelly Slater Wave Pool Company (KSWC), engaged in some thrust and parry via the patents office, each vying for commerical rights over various aspects of the wave making apparatus.
The companies have since settled down and begun working with their allotted designs. For Webber that means a kelvin wave, as opposed to a soliton wave that KSWC and other wave pool operators use.
"Utilising the kelvin wave gives us much more capacity to customise," says Webber. "It's super responsive and it gives more of a cylindrical tube as opposed to a high, almond-shaped barrel."
The shape of the wave is a virtue of physics, says Webber, before describing how kelvin waves differ from solitons, the most pertinent aspect being that solitons are solitary waves - there can be no wave in front of them and hence no trough. Webber's says his design will feature "a trough in front of the prime wave that leads to water draining backwards towards it." It's another way of saying the wave sucks up, which creates a wider barrel for the same depth of water.
And the location of the first pool? Well, Webber is a little coy on specifics, he understands the cloak and dagger being played between operators, so all he'll reveal at this point is the region. "It's in South-east Queensland. It's out there, but not too far."
He's also reticent to divulge the Australian license holder but says the US licensee, Ocean Sports Development, have just signed an exclusive agreement with Sports Facilities Advisory (SFA) with roll out imminent across the country. SFA's website state they "plan and assist in funding all types of indoor and outdoor sports complexes." While their sister company, Sports Facilities Mangement (SFM) "open and manages indoor and outdoor complexes, tournament venues, community recreation, and youth/amateur sports facilities."
Said SFA Founder and CEO Dev Pathik of his involvement with Webber Wave Pools, "We are thrilled to be playing such a major role in the development of surfing. This is one of the most exciting changes in sport that we've seen in decades."
Comments
Paging internet sleuth, Craig Brokensha to the front office please...
I can measure in months also ....24 mths minimum
But good luck i hope you get there youve had your heart and soul in this for a decade or more now
The engineering firm and their builder have the rep of being on time and under budget, and this is an un-lined prototype initially and so there is no basin to be built. Once it's tuned in then the liner goes in, possibly by Crystal Lagoons.
Well done Greg getting so far. We all know where the location is if you drive up the highway. Excellent and smart location. I've been following your development for years - from the trawler on Manning. Been stiring up The Crew .... we have annual trip south coast of NSW and need one to WWP! So how about opening up bookings to subscribers to Swellnet .... the people who pay $$$ to watch great waves when stuck at work .... You need to preach to the converted .... take early Expersions of Interest. Put me on the top of the list - 15 places, 3 days, full video of every wave, own and trial boards, fun session with style/air/single fin coach. Just take pre-bookings and put me towards the top. Al.
So wheres the location big-al ?
Some speculation here. Curious about the potential to create a circulating water flow. I can imagine after a few waves you get a flow setup, around the island in the direction of wave travel. Lots of mass and momentum, which will be hard to stop. Will they reverse it periodically ? I guess they will to provide rights and lefts. Maybe that counter flow will realy make the waves dredge with oomph.
A reverse current is induced by water jets throughout the pool basin to either negate the current or provide a reverse current to enhance the wave steepness. It becomes a tool for wave shaping. Any wave pool with a high wave rate will either have to stretch out their waves like the cove does (which then decreases wave height quickly) or they'll have to use a reverse current. Only one wave pool maker has the patent on that.
Greg, more speculation: has anyone considered using liquid filled bladders on the floor /pool bottom to tweak the wave shape. Consider if a series of internally-baffled mats were inflated or deflated with water it could introduce variation to the wave. I expect that hydraulic shock would need to be managed. Anyway, maybe for later developments..
Yes that's a lovely idea but sadly not so easy to do. The force on the bladder is pretty huge with water being about a tonne per cubic meter so the structure or series of bladders would need very strong wall supports which wouldn't easily fold down when pressure was released. In addition it's hard to clean irregular surfaces that are underwater and as they tend to grow bacteria then there's an O H and S issue.
Nevertheless we do have a design that will allow the bottom contours to be altered but can't really talk about it yet. It will get trialed later. It get's totally around having to lift and lower panels, (which failed under the loads at the Orlando prototype pool) or fill and deflate in order to alter gradient.
and that would be the game changer. Variable control of pool bathymetry. Personally I expect it to be next evolution and that the problems will be solved, given time and learning, because the outcome is so desireable for obvious reasons. In the meanwhile I might just shuffle off to the patent office and deal with a little matter.
Stop me if you've heard this one before.
Fair enough mate.
Now this will be the one to watch in my opinion. If anything is going to rival the quality of KSWC, it's Webber. And hopefully at a sensible price-point!
High wave rate means the price per wave will be acceptable. We are the licensor so it's up the pool owners of course.
And thanks for the support!
Can't wait to see what you storm up!!
Liquid time, not rubber time.
Coastal Watch are today saying there'll soon be a left at Kelly's pool.
motels, shopping precinct, bitumen, carparks........it looks amazing.
You're kidding right?
They also wrote that no goofyfooters have surfed in Kelly's pool 'or any pool' but Nat Young has surfed Kelly's and just last week Joan duru was shown surfing Wave Garden backside.
FWIW Kelly said in March they were building a left.
It looks crowded
Michael B Schwab a goofyfoot had a few in Ol baldys pool
Geez that is where I am going for my next holiday. Can it get any better: Acres of concrete, crowds a plenty, not a tree in sight, and lots of queues. Ahhh, Nirvana.
I'm not sure if you've ever had a 5 second tube in your life, let alone a 10 second piping barrel. Very few have. But if you were to come to this horror of modern man and get such a barrel, then I'll bet you'll be completely transformed. Amazing waves are very rare and nearly always packed. This way we have a huge supply of perfect waves and your wave is your wave.
Greg as a landscape architect and a surfer I love both. Not debating the wave, rather the setting. I have been involved with a few tourism developments including the Melbourne Zoo over the years and the more you can build in a total experience the better. At the Zoo it was all about matching the aspect, topography and planting to a range of species which inhabit that bio climatic zone and immerse the visitor into it. In other words a total experience not just to gawk at the animal. My concern with the renders shown was, it looked like a great investment in the concrete industry and really just a giant old school pool. I feel you are missing a great opportunity to raise the bar and create a really good tourism facility and think beyond just the wave. I am probably talking to the converted, but you also need to make it multi purpose. All pool developments these days have a lap pool, water play, gym, healing baths, etc. Kelly's was a damn in what looked like a dusty old Dandenong industrial setting. Not my idea of a holiday when I have the Mornington Peninsula. Good luck and if you haven't got one get a good landscape architect. Cheers.
As a landscape architect you'd realise that to get funding for a highly novel facility you have to indicate that it makes sense physically and also that the potential for profit is high. We have plenty of other art which shows prettier backgrounds and surrounds but with some of the larger hotel builders and retailer showing interest in wave pools as a drawcard then we obviously wanted to give them that vision. Just being practical. im sure there will be all sorts of variations in time.
Yes fair enough I have dealt with too many hard arsed developers in my life to know you sometimes need to keep it really simple whilst at the same time fighting all the way to the end, to try and get something of worth out of the project. The render presented in these pages was perhaps a poor choice given the audience of this forum. I for one would love to see something like this be successful as a total experience as I think that is the market. It could easily fit with the right sort of hotel development in somewhere like the gold coast given the other commercial attractions in the region. You will need someone with deep pockets and can think a bit laterally to make a good fist of it. It needs to be unique as as total concept I feel to set it apart. I hope you can attract the right group and not the Wally World types.
And I do agree with the whole experience rationale and I'm sure developers and operators will add all sorts of other activities, but of all the sports out there the addiction we have with just riding the wave itself is going to be enough to make surfers want to surf at least once a week in a pool. 90% of surfers have to hassle to get waves from the 10% who dominate most surf breaks. In a pool your waves are yours, and nobody can hassle you for one in any way. So I'm betting that the absence of hassling and faultless waves of a large variety will be enough to keep surfers really happy.
Jeez Mem , Melbourne zoo didn't spring up overnight and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it built with taxpayers money?
From the tiny acorn grows the mightiest oak and who knows what the future holds? The point is, he's having a go and the points you've made above have more than likely been taken into consideration I'm guessing.
Nothing can replace the ocean and all it's beauty and charm (and treachery) but let's face it, it's all about the surf and the reason why most of us surf is because it's fun. How fun is an unmolested , head high 5 second tube? Rare as hens teeth you might say but when you get one of those in the ocean you more than likely remember it for life. Maybe not so in a wave pool but I reckon you'd still come away smiling.
Maybe they could paint the bottom to look like a coral reef and for a minute you could pretend you're in the Maldives? (Cue roliing eyes)
I wish Greg great success.
Thanks mate
Yeah Zen maybe I am aiming to high, however that is why I am a landscape architect as it is all about dreaming, design, vision, ideas and enthusiasm and passion for these. I see so much rubbish development it gets incredibly depressing and the further I go north, the worse it gets. Just really dumbed down, lowest common denominator stuff. Was not knocking the wave quality or a contained environment, just the project as it was presented i.e.. Concrete from here to Queensland. I have not seen any of them that step beyond the wave and are a real professional design effort. To me, it is more than the wave, it is the experience. And sure it would be fun but if it occurs against a back drop which has had no thought put into it, for me it has failed in its potential and would leave me shaking my head. Am I to critical, perhaps but that is my job. I know there is a stack of money up front and it will take time, however if you have the correct vision and masterplan and work toward it, it can evolve it to something of worth and quality.
Totally Mem and I love your passion and I totally understand, being in the field your in, how grating it can be with some peoples total diregard for aesthetics or taste for want of a better word.
You should come to Japan and see their love affair with cement. Not to mention plastic palm trees with speakers built in.
Welcome to paradise.
the Japanese know waaaaay more about aesthetics as a whole than we backwards folk do
the Japanese know waaaaay more about aesthetics as a whole than we backwards folk do
At the top end they are up with the Milanese. From there is drops like a rock and the bulk is just cutesy crap.
I know Greg has a wild imagination but somehow the picture dosen't ooze paradise ,surely this isn't going to be the back drop....they paved paradise and put up a parking lot oo ya ay ......awesome
Check my reply above Simba. Maybe try to see it this way, you can have an amazing time on top of a grassy hill with awesome views, a campfire and people playing guitar and singing and yes that's magic! You can also listen to some people playing guitar and singing in a dirty sleazy little back room of a bar in New York City, getting drunk and stoned with nothing but walls and ciggie smoke for atmosphere, and yet that's also great fun.
Greg thanks for your reply,wasn't really knocking the concept just the background but you have explained that and i get your drift,must be an exciting time eh ....good luck.
Thanks Simba
the reason these environments are both fun is because of authenticity.
Does anybody know about the engineering, the investors or SFA ??
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ocean-sports-development-inc-osd-12000030...
https://sportadvisory.com/
Seppo mob eh ?
Whats the highrise buildings in the background of pic ...Goldy or Sunny coast or fuckall
Dev baby is spruiking Thousands of Epic rides per hour ..no fuckin way is that possible.
Yeah it is. Two sides and two ends of the pool. Multiple hulls with an average of a 10 second gap between waves so that's 4 rides being completed every 10 seconds. That's 24 rides per minute which is 1440 per hour and that's without any double peak reefs at the ends or triple peaks at the sides.
Hi Greg , just wondering when someone wipes out , what happens if the next surfer runs over him , what is the contingency plan for wipeouts ?
Hello sharkman, well the wave is at a 45 degree angle to the peel line so the surfers move towards shore when they wipe out. The nxt wave breaks in clean water so they can't run over the surfer before.
Hi Greg , what about if a surfer tries to do a top turn and comes off the back of the wave in the path of the next surfer?
what if a surfer falls off and then burns the guy on the next wave?
God how ugly is that, they could have at least made it look half natural, even some fake rock island with a viewing platform and some greenery.
Like someone said above hard to see how there won't be a whirl pool kind of motion.
Read the comments above for a reply mate. It's just one artists impression aimed at developers not hippies. there will no doubt be low key versions in time
glad to see no use of the terms "surf" or "surfing" in this article.
Something about that picture looked awfully familiar to me from hanging out on the Goldy with elder brother Zenagain years and years ago. Just above the car park, it looked like the Southport Racecourse. Sure enough, check the screen shot of google maps. Right down to the shape of the lake in the middle of the course. Coincidentally check the oval shaped dam between Clear Island Lake on the left and Southport Racecourse on the right. Disclaimer: I've never been to the Southport Racecourse and don't gamble (no judgements on anybody that does). Just spent too much time on the Gold Coast in my youth.
good work Ash ..a new sarong for you .
Cheers Udo. You beat Zen to it but I'll pick out a nice Polynesian inspired print all the same.
As a little extra, not sure how accurate the google maps distance calculator in the bottom right of google maps is but if you put that oval right next to it, the measurements do stack up pretty closely to the 300m x 150m mentioned in the article.
Ninja!
I didnt think it was a big secret? Plenty of roadfront advertising dipicting a wave pool and various other theme park atractions already in place at the Steve Irwin Way site! Am I missing somthing?
http://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2014/07/29/sunshine-coast-house...
Nothing to do with that development proposal. Different developer and different site
Makes sense to be near all the other punter theme parks!
Why do the non-believers have to write the wave pools off every time Greg or any one else makes progress? I've said this on many occasions that this is the future of surfing and is the best thing that can happen for surfing. I'm really looking forward to surfing an Australian wave pool and enjoying the fact that Australia is in the mix of the wave pool phenomenon.
Thanks Mr Wax, they're just grumpy with their own lives and not getting enough of something.
Maybe not.
Maybe some see it as a pernicious development that for nothing more than to satisfy greed, the essence of surfing- the wave- is about to privatised, packaged up and sold as a good in the marketplace.
Surfing gets sold out to the neoliberal fantasy of privatising everything, of making everything slave to the market.
No thanks.
Oh, I'll give it a go.
Once a philosopher, twice a pervert.
And I get plenty of surf thanks Greg. Maybe the lack is in your own life.
"... is about to (be) privatised, packaged up and sold as a good in the marketplace."
About to be? C'mon freeride surfing's been a product for a long time.
Let's meet up face to face then and video the meeting. Pick a time and a place.
That invite to meet me was for Freeride. Sorry if I replied to the wrong post.
All good mate, we've met face to face plenty of times. Speaking of which I am keen for a new board, assuming ya not too busy with the pool. Email you soon with details.
OK can do.
Flicked you an email last night mate ("Re: Fish for ..." ). Catch up with ya when you get a chance.
"Once a philosopher, twice a pervert."
Now there's some Voltaire I align with! And Mailer (who used it too!)
(Dunno about the back-story re: Voltaire arriving at it though?! There are limits!)
Its awesome to see that Greg comes on here and answers everyone's questions. He has been slaving away at this for a long time so to see it get up to this stage is great! Personally I think its great we are getting these wavepools (and I think Gregs model makes sense, hopefully it works in reality). With young kids, I'm "lacking" time to get my surf fix, usually getting an onshore slop when I get the chance - so if it gives me another option i'm all for it, it wont replace what the ocean does for us... But its a good option when the ocean isn't giving us the conditions we like.
Greg -if you need any average joe testers.... I'm more than happy to offer to ride/test it!
Thanks Sanded! One positive comment for every 5 negative ones, that's not too bad.
There's a difference between 'waves' and 'wave pools', Freeride. For one, waves aren't being privatized, there's simply no threat to that ever happening, and strictly speaking wave pools aren't being privatized either: they're being invented, brought into existence, so they were never in public hands.
Waves have been privatised all over the world, so that's already happened.
And while you are strictly correct about the wavepool never having been in public hands when I see the above conversations about concrete and "sympathetic" developers being brought in, just so someone can make massive profit from what nature supplies for free I can't help feel a bit sick and think this is a massive wrong turn.
Hopefully, these things will turn out to be the white elephants they always have been and will die a slow and painful death so that they never rear their ugly, concrete filled heads again.
Come on freeride let's meet up or are you too scared to say all this to my face. My name is there and I have the guts to put my name behind my words. You bitch on like a chick and hide at the same time. That's the flaw in all these forums. Virtually none of the whinging and slagging would happen face to face.
Oh christ, you honestly believe I am scared to say that to your face.
Be at Lennox Point top carpark tomorrow at midday and I'll say exactly the same thing.
Steve Shearer is the name. Used to deliver organic fruit and veg to your old man at Angas.
Let me know if that time doesn't suit and we can make another.
ps, you might want to have a look at your attitude towards women mate, they could be half of your customer base.
Good on you steve. I'm in Sydney but up that way soon, like within a week, so great we will meet up. I'll let you know by email so this doesn't get any more heated in front of anyone else. [email protected]
What attitude towards women? How on earth could you have any idea of what I think about women? Oh yeah we can cover that too.
Greg - Steven Schmied part of the Company or parted Company ?
Maybe email me on that udo. [email protected]
That's awesome! Count on us for nice tandem surfing rides at the opening!!
Lily & Fred
why not hey!
Greg I just gotta say thank you for your input on this forum. Your views and replies are certainly refreshing and, without sounding too cheesy, inspiring! Your commentary is straight forward and insightful (couldn't help that one!) and the offer to meet and greet free ride was priceless to read... Back peddle!! Always gonna be a few haters and really the people dissing your ideas are just gumboots... Your wavepools have obviously been a labour of love and the process and hrs of involvement for research, trial and development I imagine must have been awfully time consuming... As surfers we are lucky to have minds like yours to bring such creative innovations - most of us can only dream... Like the interview a few weeks back with Kelly, a few can only sprout negative viewpoints and you are right when you mention in response that those people have something lacking in their life;) The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well! And to anyone who may wish to question this - I have no affiliation with Greg and don't know the bloke - the truth is modern surfing has almost been destroyed (emphasis on almost, there is hope!!) by the lack of etiquette in the water and general collective mentality of the average toolbag that claims 'their' local spot as 'theirs'... The only real locals are the indigenous inhabitants of this land and the fish - FACT. Keep up the great work, can't wait to see the pools come to fruition and hope the dream is realised. I probly won't be goin to use them, I'm a fortunate soul who still is able to surf alone in untouched and pristine environments... I do know, however, that my kids and hopefully their kids have a tremendous opportunity to indulge in and discover surfing in the future and if it's in one of your pools then who farkn cares! An artists impression is just an impression, what it looks like is irrelevant - as long as someone gets the basic stoke of riding a wave and can share that joy with others back on land then the purpose is served. The shapers I know are a wonderful bunch, true artists - true craftsmen and inventors.... So Greg you are doing surfers proud! In hundreds of years from now people will remember guys like you and your contribution to the surfing community because you had the guts to think and act outside the box... The critics, well, no one ever draws inspiration from them that's for sure;)
Thanks Jelly, I appreciate the firm support a lot! But I'm not
pissed off with any of these detractors. it's a human condition for most people to resent anyone or everyone with more reputation, money, power, respect, status than them.. That resentment is exactly what keeps the hierarchies that dominate the planet in place. The vision required to influence the rung above you can't come from whinging. Only by understanding objectively without passion as to why those structures exist can you bend them a little. Funnily enough it's the same degree of order and structure in our society that provides the liberty and in fact the medium from which to grizzle and whinge and complain about the very things that made the expression of that complaint possible. Two or three waves and every single detractor will be hooting and besides themselves. They will be some of the first people I invite to try out a "man made" barrel. Oh the purists! What's art then ? Nothing more than a distortion of nature to allow us to see what we are blind to.
Thats total neoliberal fantasising Greg.
You're drunk on greed and looking for anything to justify your position.
You think the hierarchies that dominate the planet- lets include the property developers whos favour you are so desperately trying to curry in that lot- are kept in place because the people below them resent them?
You've got that 180 degrees wrong there....the only possible way they are ever challenged is by people who resent enough, care enough to challenge them and stand up to them.
These energy guzzling, concrete, commercially obese monstrosities are Exhibit A.
Stu has my email btw.
Geez free ride, you aren't making too much sense of things... Greg pointed out clearly the 'human condition' - maybe you failed to understand the comment, maybe it hurt a little or maybe you are just a glutton for punishment? Did you deliver your so called organic fruit and veggies back in the day for free?! Did you deliver it in an energy guzzling car or strap a bundle to your head and wander around in a fantastical world of delusion believing you are contributing something meaningful to humanity?! Do you live in a house that is a property that was developed?! It never ceases to amaze how certain individuals try and justify resentment;) Resentment is resentment and it'll do nothing but feed YOUR resentment, which is a simple perversion of your choosing... Feel free to cling to that if you like - one day, maybe in your next life, you may afford yourself the opportunity to discover that it won't serve you... or anyone else! I'm sure it doesn't make you feel good about yourself or anything - but keep chipping away, you may be able to help dig the hole for greg's pool ;);) The perception of what these so called 'commercially obese monstrosities' are will certainly differ from the reality. If you wish to be passionate about something and lump it into the cause of 'challenging' or 'standing up' to something, then maybe try directing your energies somewhere more useful and in a more constructive manner... Not sure your point of view is anything more than a fantasy itself! Is your warrior keyboard attached to a solar powered computer or do you just feed it fruit to function;);) Anyway, I don't mean any disrespect - but your meet and greet with Greg is sure to be compelling viewing... It's not about rights or wrongs, and being pretty sure about something often doesn't actually mean anything in actuality! Maybe reconsider Greg's comment in relation to purists and art - you may once again not be capable of understanding the relevance but the purist point of view is akin to a dinosaur arguing that the meteor or volcano or whatever event that was gonna wipe them out shouldn't happen! Not saying wavepools will wipe out surfing but Greg's vision will bring a hell of a lot more to expanding and providing many good things to not only surfing but life for many people. If people wish not to accept or even associate it as surfing then that is ok. The positives far outway any negative impact and that I am sure of, but we can agree to disagree... And pls record the meet and greet and post it up here. Good luck with trying not to come across as a disgruntled pork chop, but go for it;);) Sometimes it can be helpful to see things as they are - and maybe Greg plans to use organic water!! ... 'Oh the purists! What's art then? Nothing more than a distortion of nature to allow us to see what we are blind to'. Some of us just need to open our eyes, or at least look at things through new eyes;) Visionaries and inventors will always have detractors, and their purpose is valid - I understand that inspiration can truly be drawn from questioning things... When the intent is correct and impartial and the personal agenda is dropped then only good things can come about ;)
Thanks Jelly that was massive.
I've been thinking in this way since I was about 13 when I would watch people get frustrated with authority and realised that it's so much easier to go along with the rules and if you saw an opportunity, get to know the ones above you and then try to get them to see things differently. Once you appreciate the position they are in or even just the structure that they are a part of purely objectively, then you don't have the emotional side effect that comes from relating your lower position to their higher position. (This quality to resent the level above is totally natural and is the prime reason why civilisations on earth have had any stability at all, being consistently resentful of things you can't seem to change, elevates depression and keeps you in your place) With resentment and uprising change can and does happen of course, but usually at a high cost either with the polarising of political stances, which usually muzzles one side, or good ole loss of life. This acceptance of relative positions can apply to all manner of situations and is the approach best used in any conflict, but it's also good to know who your dealing with, which is why a bit of friction is great too. I now know much more about how you think and from what you're doing with your 'pidgeon holing' of me into a sociologists construct, ( I hate using those wanky terms but had to connect with that part of this guy's brain) you know even less about me! ha! The other way to not have to alter the thinking of the ones at the top is to merely make alternative structures yourself and see if people like them, (no uprising necessary) like a new approach to existence, or materialism, or a just a new approach to how we live in groups. We all get stuck in one mold or theme in our thinking, and we tend to polarise and resent the ones with opposing views or lifestyles but what if you could experience both? Surely you'd understand and even appreciate the other side better. As for your resentment of the fully commercialised wave pool, I get you, that's your choice, but you're critique is based on the premise that commercialising surfing or waves is ruining it. That's just totally wrong mate, it is making us all value the simplicity and beauty of surfing in nature even more. ( I know the best of the ocean too. I lived on Lord Howe Island for 2 years and have surfed there since 1975. I surfed by myself many times and occasionally I wouldn't do a turn for a whole surf just to undo the need to try to do turns) So I think man made waves will help us to value the ocean waves even more, Just like the "popped out" offshore made surfboard made the hand shape even more appreciated and valued, not less! I think surfing events should only take place in wave pools and leave the waves in nature free of competing. Yes of course film the best surfing great waves but get rid of the need for a winner in the ocean.
So here's a hypothetical situation for you: what would you do if there was town A, located near a national park, with beautifully landscaped surrounds, cabins spaced a block apart, and no higher than 2 stories, recycled timber throughout, sourced from anything from 150 year old homes to huge timber bridges, native plants between cabins so the local fauna can come and go stress-free, no logos whatsoever, no glaring LED displays or neon adverts, and only organic food at all restaurants and cafes with low key live music at moderate volumes in groovy bars and at pool side decking, overlooking the waves as the peel by unridden, in the non-surfing times, with gentle sparkly lighting, so that locals and visitors can properly value the waves for exactly what they are, one of natures greatest sculptures. (and not one bit of that description is me being facetious)
Or town B which is hard core cranking waves, with all the brands going off, who sponsor custom designed waves as a product, as well as entire events, all the way up to the Olympics, (which by the way can then be run in scores of different countries at the same time on the exact same wave) and give prizes to those who perform best on those waves, on a daily to yearly level, along with those global brands advertising within the pool itself, trying to capture the "cool-ness" of surfing, every ride being recorded for the potential of later posting on social media, contests everyday in all demographics (e.g. best air in the under 15 boys or best hang ten in the over 40's ladies), multi story hotels at either end with full scale retail underneath, live music and DJ's in cafes and bars 24 hours a day, as well as major music events at the open air 5000 seat auditorium, while the worlds best ride waves in synchrony with the music.
Now although you yourself would never live at such a place, now tell me would you never go there? And to highlight my point, I'm sure a buddhist monk could see it for what it is and delight in the wildness of it all while daring to learn to surf on a popped out beginners board from China, after which he walks guilt-free into Maccas and buys some fries.
Is this confused monologue/question aimed at me?
Of course I'll go visit. I'm a writer, it's all grist for the mill to me.
Doesn't mean I'll support it, or spend every syllable at my disposal calling it as I see it.
And thanks for the "lesson" on dealing with authority. Do you honestly see yourself as being in some way "against" authority here?
You're just one more huckster trying to make a massive buck out of surfing. Except this time we are going into bed with developers and councils and state governments and other "good people" who have the best interests of the environment at heart.
Not.
Your point about man made waves making us appreciate the simplicity and beauty of ocean waves is the only interesting thing I've heard you say so far. That is a possibility, granted.
But I believe the opposite is far more likely to occur. Technology and virtual realities are moving human beings away from nature, not towards it, and theres no reason to think artificial waves are any different.
Are you aware of the concept of environmental mitigation?
It's where a miner or other land developer says : OK we'll bulldoze this stand of forest but save some of equal size elsewhere. Standard, if controversial practice in the mining game.
You see the horrendous mega developments that keep persisting in raising their ugly heads on the Gold Coast? Massive marinas, casinos, breakwaters that would wipe out entire surf spots?
Doesn't take too much imagination to see in 10-20 years time developers coming to council/ state govt and saying " hey we'll build this massive marina here and in return for killing Kirra we'll build 5 wavepools operating 24 hours a day with a revenue share deal".
And what legitimate defence will surfers have then? Seriously, what legitimate arguments about the sanctity of natural surf spots and the connection between surfing and nature will we have to drawn upon?
I'd say we'd look like about the most hypocritical bunch of flipflopping wankers of all time if we'd been bulldozing bushland to build wavepools in the preceeding years.
If you could be bothered to read my reply to your bit above, I'll do it tomorrow and I'll use the body of your text and answer each point you make within it. I'm sure one or both of us will want to give this a miss pretty soon.
"Drunk on greed and looking for anything to justify your position".--.Well said.
The wave pool in Dubai is small a short ride and average wave and it is expensive, but let me tell you, you will be frothing. I'm not saying its better than the real thing but in some ways it is.
The best part is you can book for when you like.
The second thing is it's guaranteed to be on.
The third thing is it doesn't get wind effected.
Forth is you take turns and every body scores.
I could go on and on, Only bad thing is it will be expensive but when you're guaranteed something and know what you're getting, well there will be no drama.
It is mind boggling that there are haters on this. To the haters, you don't know what you're missing out on.
Nicely said again.
and another small point to accentuate what you just said about pools being better in some ways, there is such a difference between the two ways the waves arrive before you. In the ocean you get much more time to see the waves coming, and can even get into a slightly meditative state while you're out the back waiting for the next set. It's great the way we can see these really tiny darker lines hundreds of meters away that tell our surfing brain that, "hey that's a solid one and it's going to break roughly over there" This is completely absent in a wave pool but for that reason when waves arrive in a wave pool, this foreign environment for a wave, it's fucking exciting, almost like in a nervous exciting way. It's like "whoa!...that's nuts" It's like magic that it's just popped up out of nowhere, even though you know where you are. When we made the river waves with the prawn trawler that's exactly what we felt as they came peeling towards us.
Greg, i think its time you stopped replying. Your ego is somehow oozing thru my monitor and trying to force me to pay for the magnificent air i am breathing. As a side note whinging at ur potential customers didnt do anything for anyone (that is speculative, ill grant that)
I can't wait to get in a wave pool who's ever it is.
The thought of guranteed barrels is to tantalising to turn down
I can only see positive things coming out of this.
If you are lucky enough to have one near you then you have an option to surf when the ocean is not co-operating, is ugly or maybe its outside daylight hours.
And for those who don't want to do this then you will have less people in the line up anyway and those that spend a lot of time in a wave pool wont be able to read the ocean that well, so who is the winner here!
Its a win, win
Good onya Mr Webber, bring it on
Responded to Webber challenge above.
You know what's disgusting? Freeride and I will probably get on way better than we think!
Greg, I look forward to the years. When the biggest issues of the day are the merits of turn-waves vs barrel-waves vs combo-waves which we will debate with the same fervent as when we move from beers to G&Ts. Ironically, our afternoon ritual of neo-liberal fantasising will be sponsored by Freeride and his kids, who, having been late to the party, will join the back of the queue and pay the most, supporting the free ride of those who saw the future first. This is how the free world works, and having outsmarted Freeride we will demand the organic pineapple for our pina coladas better be fresh, and it will be, lest someone else does
Ha Fong! Good points re the media. and you might be right about the Sunny coast as a location but bear in mind you can teach people to surf so fast it'll create a customer base by itself. With 8 surfers on each beginner (unbroken) 1m wave and one attendant per learner pushing them onto each ride, that's 8 rides per 10 seconds, 48 per minute, 2800 per hour and 28,800 rides per ten hour day. If nearly 3000 surfers could get 10 waves per session per day then even if you take 3 sessions to learn to stand up and cut along that's a potential of 1000 beginners per day becoming a surfer. Even if you divide that maximum by 5 then that's 200 new patrons per day or 20,000 new surfers per year if we only apply it to the 100 peak season days per year. The main channels of our pool can provide a maximum of about 720 waves per hour or 7200 per 10 hour day. So then 720 surfers per day can get 10 proper waves, or about 5000 surfers per week can be fulfilled. If Brisbane has about 10,000 surfers and the population of the Sunshine coast is about 300,000 then it would take only 1 in 15 people to learn to surf in their new wave pool, in order to create another 20,000 surfers in one year, (that's all types of surfing in all demographics of course). If you add Brisbane's total to the new group that's about 30,000 surfers, from boogy boarding kids to competent surfers to 70 year old grandparents wanting to have fun in a pool that only fulfils 5000 surfers per week. At that rate with these numbers the individuals in this group could only get a surf once every month. If I'm off by 4 times then it'll still be full all the time.
Flick us an approx per wave cost Gregory
It's not my call as i said but I'm guessing about $5 for a 25 second 1.25m wave, $6 for a 20 second 1.5m wave, $7 for a 17 second 1.75m wave and if we manage to make the 2m wave it'll cost closer to $10 for a 15 second ride that can either be a wave for turning on or it has has a 10 second tube after a 5 second build up from the 1m high start.
Do you tap and go after each wave according to its height /duration? how does that work?
So are you suggesting that your pool will create massive amounts of new surfers quicker so they can become surf consumers , and the progress to the natural surf breaks or that they just keep surfing in pools ?
Good point Sharkman, this is the only issue I'm worried about, but I think it's quite possible there will be a slight oversupply of waves as developers compete to drag customers/surfers to their surrounding developments. If the hotels and retailers gain enough increase in value by the presence of the perfect waves (and bare in mind Crystal lagoons have created a doubling of property values in some hotel developments due to a stunning blue lagoon... without waves) then the price per wave will actually be quite low since the revenue from the pool use even at $10 per wave will be quite a bit lower than the increase in rent per meter for both hotel and retail. yes they will want to make $ out of the riding of waves but the more people that come and stay for longer periods then the more the value in the other side goes up. So surfers will increase in number but hopefully wave supply will be slightly above demand. Beyond that i have another semi submerged artificial reef design that I'll be releasing at some stage, and it can add more perfect waves into the mix but using the waves we get for free, as against using energy to make them.
Sounds like its the surrounding business's are the ones who will make the $'s , and you use the pool to attract the clientele ?
20,000 new surfers per year. where do you expect to find even half of those numbers? Most Aus folk have tried surfing as part of high school curriculum so convincing them to PAY for the experience would be very difficult i imagine. Considering we are talking experience here, i would say the fact that surfing takes place at a beach ( a place where i would say 90% of the worlds pop. is happy) is going to be your biggest competitor.
Freeride, I'm afraid Greg has you there. Resistance is futile from a level blind to part of the understanding. To truly challenge something and make a difference is to encompass it within yourself - in other words to understand what the reflection is trying to let you know to wake up to. Then you'll raise your playing field to theirs and you would have some influence. This is the paradox most don't see.
We are witnessing the next quantum leap in evolution of surfing as demand and technology is at the level where it can create these waves. Like anything new it will have its fair share of positive points and negative points but it's transcending the issue of overcrowding and bringing order to where it was disintegrating - a crowded lineup in a populated place in the first world where its a free for all. I'm looking forward to having a go where the imposed order, restriction and rigidness of paying for a wave at a wave park will bring the freedom and liberty to totally relax and actually know when and where exactly I will be getting my next perfect wave delivered.
. "I'm looking forward to having a go where the imposed order, restriction and rigidness of paying for a wave at a wave park will bring the freedom and liberty to totally relax and actually know when and where exactly I will be getting my next perfect wave delivered."
Mate, did you write that with a straight face?
Freedom and liberty in surfing now comes through the imposed order, restriction and rigidness of paying for a wave at a wave park......
Not even in Orwells most fevered dreams could be come up with such a stunning piece of doublespeak.
As for the rest of the pseudo-psychological jibber-jabber, no-one including you has any idea how the success or failure of wavepools will play out in the next 5/10/20 years. They might take off initially then turn out to be as popular as genital herpes as people realise that the imposed order, restriction and rigidness of paying for a wave at a wave park actually isn't that cool. And maybe just taking what nature offers for free is better.
They might not offer any solution at all to over-crowding, they may drastically exacerbate it.
Who knows.
Whatever other benefits/ downsides , I'm assuming that wavepool s will greatly increase crowd numbers in the ocean.
Up till now the learning curve has been to steep for most holiday makers to progress past the initial stage in their once a year exposure to the ocean. This will change when people can practice all year , anywhere.
Coupled with the vast increase in participants from people that would never have gone near the ocean previously equals many , many , many more surfers.
Yay !
I am not convinced about the increase in crowds side of it. I can't help think it might run along the lines of the surf school phenomena. Non-surfers give it a go, tick the box and move on to the next 'thing'. Dedicated learners might use it as a stepping stone but if they're that dedicated they would have stick with it wave pool or no. As for current surfers, surely every bloke in the pool is one not at your local.
Further, as alluded to by others learning to 'surf' exclusively in a wave pool might give you an advantage in the skills of actually riding the wave but it sure as shit ain't gonna help you with all the other skills you need to surf in the ocean. Just off the top of my head these include: reading conditions; tides, winds, swell direction, banks, rips etc.; board selection, paddling out, duck diving, knowing where the waves are going to break (Greg outlined quite nicely above how very different the wave gets to you in the pool v the ocean), dealing with other people in the line up competing for the waves, knowing what to do when shit goes bad, i.e. snapped board or broken leggy. This list goes on. And that's without the sharks and other nasties factor.
Quite possibly people who learn to surf in a wave pool have one go in the ocean (it's bigger than it looks from the carpark and the wind goes sideshore when there out there on the wrong bank) and go yeah nah too hard, pull out the phone and book a sesh on the WebberWavePool App( TM) (remember that was my idea when the time comes Greg).
I guess in the end it'll come down to how widespread they become, how expensive they are in the longer term and how well (if at all) a 'pool' surfer transitions to an 'ocean' surfer.
yeah I can imagine most that learn in a pool will try the ocean just to say they have or do surf in the ocean too, just like average and below average surfers go to Gland to say that they've surfed there. Yes it's a good challenge and worth trying but once done most of these surfers know they are not really up to it and surf safer easier waves near home. Now the pool will be the another alternative.
Hi Blowin, check my reply to shark man on the same subject
So free ride have you ever done a quick tally in your mind of how many uncrowded perfect surfs you get per year? I mean paddling out with two or three guys so that each one of you is guaranteed of getting one wave per set? like 4 to 5 foot, mechanically perfect waves? 3 guys only? I'm guessing even if you surf Lennox 100 times a year and go to the Ments twice a year you still will not get one session like that. And how amazingly fulfilling might these waves be? Enough to remember for the rest of your life probably. Well even though the tropical location and the experience of the whole journey and the culture that's nearby is completely absent in a wave pool, you'll get the exact same piping perfect waves, any day you like for next to no hassle in getting there and zero hassle paddling onto them, and for vastly less cost. e.g. $700 for 100 perfect barrels over one week of surfing everyday, or $4000 for one week of perfect waves with lots of travel and a considerable hassle required for each and every wave you paddle for. That's why the order will actually create a degree of peace, surely you realise that nearly every wave you have paddled for during your whole surfing life has one of more guys also going for the same wave? and so 95% of surfing on earth is tarnished by that natural human aspect of wanting the same thing and competing hard for it. Can't you at least see that the absence of any hassling at all is still a good thing? No egos no aggression no local surfing hierarchy to fit into? Yes it's fun to battle for waves at times, I grew up and Bondi and have surfed Angourie for 40 years but to outright reject the chance to ride perfect waves with zero hassle on account of enhancing some elitist resentful view of human-kind as the cancer of the planet will just make you more depressed and change nothing.
The reductionist perspective! The perfect surfing experience, minus the experience of getting there, the isolation and tranquility, the mateship of sharing, the spectacular reef below, the varied and interesting tropical species and the cultural encounters and insights. A bargain at $10 a barrel, roll up, roll up. Good luck mate, I hope you have a plan B or is it all someone else's money?
"Mate, did you write that with a straight face?" - Absolutely. Take the time to contemplate the whole sentence instead of knee jerking into an automaton conditioned response. Far from double-speak.
Dude, you just made some very good points, only time will tell where this will lead.
Well said Mishad... Great comment, it's spot on! oh the paradox ;);)
Well i live in a large city where there are way too many surfers and not enough quality waves, this is a great solution to this . surf breaks are only getting more croded and stressed. I guess you guys who live out of the city a wavepool may not seem needed and good luck to you. People like Greg are into progression and the world needs forward thinkers like him.
For the purest you can surf your local break and get a plane to Indo and enjoy, i cannot wait to get a fun uncrowded wave and can do a few turns on or even a barrel for daily i cannot get that much at my local beaches. Bring it on Greg.
here here CW..please add Adelaide to your planned locations Greg, 1000's of surfers no local waves. Use a much concrete as u want as long as we get barrelled after school or work.
For sure Adelaide will get one. Well said amb. That's all it comes down to: "Use as much concrete as u want as along as we get barreled after work"
Thanks Concrete wave...exactly, and there must be vastly more surfers on earth in your position than the ones with top ranking at the local break which has perfect waves 50 times a year.
Yep that's the main point we sometimes lose sight of...
Surfing is and always will be about having fun!
Good stuff fong, keeping it real ;)
yes again, to Fong and Flater
I can also see it as a massive help to board builders also, they can test their designs on a wave that will be very similar every wave and condition, surely this will help the sport along massively! Having a test centre that you can make the most of like this could push board development along - Im sure GW has a few "far out" designs in his head that he has always wanted to test..
yes Sanded, totally agree, what a bonus for all shapers. I'm also hoping that some wave pools will have mini UV cure factories for custom orders only, where a surfer can go over the order with a local or visiting shaper in the morning, design the board over coffee with the shaper on his laptop, watch it get machined, watch the shaper finish it off and then go and surf, or have lunch or watch the glassing and sanding until the arvo when it's totally cured and fine sanded ready to ride on some perfect waves, which may also be filmed for the record of the whole experience.
Can't see wave pools as anything but a positive. Spent countless hours watching for and chasing quality waves getting rare great surfs. Spent thousands of dollars going to the Mentawais praying for certain spots to be on, without too many people etc. - so many variable have to come together for a classic surf. Sometimes I've spent $30 on petrol and the best part of a day to get just a couple of good 50 metre rides at some fickle beach break. A good wave pool is an attractive alternative (not replacement) for the ocean.
They may introduce more people to surfing but I have a feeling that those who grow up surfing wave pools will very often struggle to deal with, or not like so much, the fickle ocean and the slog of paddling our through heavy shorebreaks and dealing with rips, shark fears etc. Surfing is hard work unless you are surf fit. Pools surfers will not be surf fit or ready for a flogging in the ocean.
They may even lessen crowds as surfers won't be as obsessed at watching the weather for those special conditions when they can drive down to XX pool and dial in a good session whenever convenient.
Many spots today are not that crowded day to day compared to the past but suffer from "peak conditions" overcrowding. When all the signals are right hundreds of surfers simultaneously check the net, the surf cams, the forecasts and time their trips to the same spot as 50+ other people on the same day. In QLD, day to day the points are not that bad for crowds but if everyone knows a pulse is coming they can get ridiculous then the next day in more average conditions, they are back to normal.
In certain conditions, when it is an obvious swell for the better spots near were I live, a drive up the coast is like a tour of a series of 4wd conventions as each car park is crammed full of young and old determined to get their favourite spot X on a good day. If those same people had surfed their local wave pool perfect after work the night or weekend before many would not be on the road chasing the forecast best swell or be that fussed if they missed it.
Personally I think this could be the big benefit of wave pools down the track once they are well established. They may take the edge off that hunger, the desperation to get your local favourite spot on its best days as you have a swag of good waves under your belt any time you want. This will smooth out the crowd peaks and give the ocean surfers more waves on the better days.
With wave pools in the equation the dodgy forecast days could be quite empty as people will weigh up the low percentage trip against an arvo at the wave pool. Locals and the more hard core will benefit from that too with empty sessions.
Nice to hear a fresh perspective! Some pretty undeniable truths right there...
Frog you sure are perceptive and have a very decent brain for imagining how surfers might think and behave when presented with a totally new wave source. Out of interest's sake what industry or trade are you in? This is the best thing I've heard in a while about pools: "If those same people had surfed their local wave pool perfect after work the night or weekend before many would not be on the road chasing the forecast best swell or be that fussed if they missed it." ......So few have even thought of this possibility.
It won't be the same as paying $4000 for a boat trip to the Ments but you won't get skunked either !!
Most of you sound like a sack of weekend warrior kooks.
Jesus fucking Christ.
love it Bum acid! keep them coming. it's giving me the shits too!
....and most of you sound like suckers for the latest consumer hype, but each to his own, you go your way etc etc.
lol at people suggesting they might lessen crowds while Webber himself rhapsodizes over " a potential of 1000 beginners per day becoming a surfer. Even if you divide that maximum by 5 then that's 200 new patrons per day or 20,000 new surfers per year"
Thats just Sunshine Coast alone.
Yeah right none of those 20 000 a year are going to be paddling out in the ocean when the credit card gets stretched and they want to see if real waves in the ocean are better than plastic sex toys in the chlorine.
Funniest thing is Fong the old anti-corporate warrior in it up to his nuts egging him along.
It's a beautiful world we live in. A sweet romantic place.
yes free ride I admit that creating too many surfers for the supply of waves is the only real issue. Create surfers and the crowds increase... But don't forget that greed thing that grates your sensitivities. Once they become an addicted surfer, and want to ride 10 or so waves per week in a pool then the developers will make more and more waves to capture those people/surfers/patrons/humans in their wave pool based development so that they can fill their hotel rooms and jack up the rent on the retail. I'm using greed to make millions of waves per year. All that will happen is that more people will pay X number of dollars for a product that never needed to be transported, never needed to be packaged and was created for fuck all CO2, and lasts about 20 seconds and then disappears without any physical waste, as against all the other material things that cost so much more and do much more damage. It's an transient experience verses a thing that you have to have, or hold or own or covet. And so the more waves we make on earth, despite the brands and their desire for profit, I'm guessing the less we will be materialistic. You can only sell to a surfer so much, and then all he or she wants is a wave.
Sorry, what's the impetus for this whole thing again? I mean, apart from $ of course.
Is there any underlying philosophy? Even a flimsy one will do.
I haven't read through all the comments/commentary. Who's got the time? Just break it down quick-smart, bullet-point or whatever makes it easy for ME. NOW!
(actually, is THIS the kind of attitude/world-view that this whole thing panders to??)
me
me
me
$ is pretty much what it boils down to.
I can't personally see wave pools translating into crowded ocean line-ups in any significant way. Wave pools by there inherent design produce mechanical, consistent, predictable, soft and safe waves in a very safe environment. Rarely in the ocean do all these factors line-up. People who learn to surf in a wave pool will be in for rude if not very dangerous shock should they attempt to translate their learnings from wave pool to the ocean in the short term, probably deterring more than less from continuing to surf in the ocean.
If people are so concerned about wave pools increasing crowds in the ocean, why aren't they complaining about surf schools. These surf schools are teaching people not only to surf but to gain a basic understanding of the inherent dangers of the ocean whilst learning in this environment (which is good thing actually). I would of thought these learners would transfer to crowed line ups way before any wave pool learner. Surf schools continue to grow from what I'm noticing.
Great minds Rabbits68, see post above.
Yeah, except rank beginners are already packing out point breaks where they don't belong.
You honestly think Frank the dentist (and his 20000 new mates) who have now received his certificate of Merit from Webber Wavepools is not going to paddle his new board out at Noosa or Snapper or the Pass to put his new skills to use?
Cause I can't imagine a universe where he won't.
the problem with people learning to surf in a wave pool , will be they are gaining no knowledge of how to read the ocean and the swells.
Imagine someone who has learnt to become a competent surfer in a poo , or now known as a Poolie , paddles out on a good day where there are tubes , but can't work out how to catch one , as he doesn't know how to surf in crowd and doesn't know where to take off or how to read the wave as its different to his home pool!
agreed.....they'll know just enough to get out there and be a danger to themselves and others.
Imagine throwing another thousand of Webbers new 20000 recruits out to Snapper, or Noosa or the Pass.
Mayhem!
Yeah for sure freeride, Frank and his mates'll be straight out places like Snapper, the Pass etc. when they're on. Zero doubt. BUT, will that make much difference? Those type of breaks are already beyond capacity as you pointed out.
Plus, their UWebber Certificate of Merit (Class I) or PhD (Double hand stall with applications to barrels of 5 seconds or longer duration) ain't gunna help them with the sweep or the 500 hundred odd other muppets competing for the sets.
And in no universe close to this one is it going to help them out the OX on a decent day.
Not on a decent day no, but when they decide to hold their monthly reunion or bi-weekly "ocean surfing" trip at a break and bring a crowd of , what ? Hundreds? 50? A bus load? to a nice clean 3-4ft day with 20 people out....
Because, lets face it, for the surfer with the WavePool certificate it's the more the merrier, right?
I mean, if there a 1/4 of the numbers, and lets remember these are just for the Sunny Coast....even if just a 1/4 of those numbers are real we are talking about a staggering increase in the surfing population capable of paddling out in most east coast surf.
And Webber solution to the wavepool crowds?
Wait for it...................
Build more wavepools to deal with the demand.
You can't make this shitt up.
Yeah I dunno mate, I think you're drawing a long bow on the 'more the merrier' line. Not sure where you're getting the assumption that these theoretical, and lets face it at this stage that's all it is, Wave Pool certificate holders will all want to travel in packs. Or even want to surf in the ocean. Could be that they just rock up to the wave pool once in awhile or for their monthly 'surf' in the same way as your one week a year at Thredbo skiers/snowboarders do.
I dunno mate, I just dunno.
Oh, they'll want to surf in the ocean.
I think that is a safe assumption.
We are talking SEQLD here, not inland Russia. Or the North Shore of Hawaii.
Sunny Coast, Gold Coast an hour away. Northern NSW 2 hrs.
And at 10 bucks a wave, they'll sooner or later think about all the "free" waves they could be riding.
As to whether they'll surf in packs, I'll bet london to a brick the wavepool will have loyalty programs and social media accounts where people connect and "new surf chums" will organise to get to the beach.
Thats happening now.
Fair points there freeride. I am still sceptical about the effects on crowds, in SEQLD you could well be right. But other places? I guess I am looking at it from my narrow personal perspective. You could build a wave pool nearby here in this grubby old city (if you were rich and or insane enough to have coin for the property) but I doubt many of the 'recruits' would end up out at my local.
and to you, more people surfing is a bad thing? I'm completely thinking the opposite, the more people who surf the better. It's one of the best things on earth you can do as you know. The supply will go through the roof via the standard forces of a free market society, just like the supply of devices we are now getting semi ruined by. Check Facebook and Instagram for an hour or ride perfect waves? Over time people will not care about posting their latest turn or tube ride but will just love the doing of the thing without having to record it or post it. Might take a couple of decades but i think surfing might change the way many many people think. That's why we need pools since there is no ways we can have much more surfing without many more waves.
I assume that's to freeride
Yes
And to all of you locals that can see that these wave pool surfers might be able to surf ok since they've had wave after wave to hone their skills but they won't have any ocean knowledge whatsoever, some of you will be approached by the wave pool company to teach them all of that stuff that they have no idea about. And that training is going to be heavily sought after, and one or more of you guys complaining now are going to approached by the wave pool operator to offer this service, and at a premium!! Those decades of understanding can make some of you a very decent income. Probably double the price of a learn to surf lesson. Then what will you do when a dirty stinking sell out wave pool company offers you $2000/wk to help these new surfers understand the ocean?
Greg, your a sick man.
I imagine if you learn to surf in a wave pool in the future it's going to cost you or your parents a fortune. I hope they all have trust funds. I personally find the idea of paying for a 5 second 'barrel' in a pool ,at the rates some have suggested ,akin to paying for a high class prostitute in a brothel , but that's just me , I live for the hunt .Though I don't want to be too negative and wish Webber the best , love the ideas and progression .
Well you made the comparison tubeshooter but what about the price difference? $500 plus per hour for a high class prostitute verses $70 an hour for ten perfect barrels that actually offer 10 second barrels!
Mr Webber. Just because someone questions the impact of your proposal doesn't make them some pissed off grumpy old bastard angry with the world. What? are we all supposed to just tip our hats, kiss your arse and to fuck with everyone else, and the world for that matter. It’s not negativity to genuinely ask what is the impact from this concept on a long term basis. I think there are some very genuine questions your proposal have raised.
scepticism is not cynicism. and when it comes to freerides comments - to me the former applies. And can you blame him? Corporate surfing doesn’t have a great track record.
Questions being. What is the environmental impact? What is the crowd impact to the wider surfing community? Personally, the comments on here saying a wave pool will reduce numbers and hence increase the surfing community’s pleasure does not wash at all with me. if those on here can’t see that then, well I’m at a loss. Skaters, pool swimmers, snow boarders, skiers etc….. anyone???
And to jelly flater – mate the old tired “you-drive-a-car-thus-you-are-a-contradiction”.. line is so old & so boring, Stop making excuses for not giving a fuck. What we shouldn’t try and improve our ways. “ yeah I wanted to improve my impact but you know what I drive a car, so fuck it…”
Despite the self righteous tone of some of the critics I'm still answering the queries mate. Check how many f'ing lines I've written already. Obviously I get your concerns but it's the fact that there's an elitist purest superiority mixed in with each message, that's also gotto be addressed. That's not an objective politely phrased series of queries but a smart ass disrespectful approach that merely gets back a bit of its own. I'm not going to merely respond to the disrespect with an objective reply pretending that someone's not being a cock. That just fuels them to push further so that they eventually get the guy defending himself to crack and then they get this lovely feeling inside that has cleverly got that person to get emotional. And these types will read what I've said just now and then say "gee greg I think you're reading a bit too much into it mate" I just saved you. But I'll stop replying soon since I'm only doing this for an exercise. Grizzling whinging and bitching before the pool is built verses "ok maybe I was a bit wrong about the idea of wave pools" after a day of getting piped. It'll be amusing but it'll resolve most of it without a single word being spoken. Shut up and have another barrel.
Very well said bonza.
Say what you like you cannot "surf" in a pool. You can ride waves but if that is all you hope to get out of surfing then you have you have a very narrow view of the experience. Personally I don't care what happens with pools. I will simply tune out and stay away. At the same time I think it is sad, though probably inevitable, that surfing would become do thoroughly integrated into mainstream culture that all sense of an individual identity is lost. There we go, WSL Pool Event on Fox in between the cage fighting and the golf, with pretty much the same audience for all three. Once upon a time to be a surfer was a defining characteristic, these days it us just a lifestyle add on, like the SUV, the private school for Alexander and Sophie and the week in the snow (not Australia, for god's sake who do you think we are?). Is that we have really become? Just a fucking amusement park! Surf World? Why? The challenge? There are a million better ones. The money, you have to be kidding, I would give it a 50% chance of bankruptcy in the first three years. So what's left? Ego? Some perverted idea of what would be "good for the sport", usually translated as being a good source of potential junkets and well paid positions for doing 3/5ths of fuck all. But hey, it's your future go for it guys.
Greg, don't bother addressing me via email mate, I want the face to face filmed meeting as you so boldly originally suggested.
I can wait till you are up here.
Come around to my place, I'll supply the fish and film the event.
You have to stream it live freeride!
love it! good on you free ride. We don't like each other so far but what if we start to see eye to eye? Won't that be annoying for both of us... I've had a few offers to record it too.
Geez Blindboy, you've been known in the past to give plenty of people grief for being nostalgic. A terrible disease as you've referred to it. Mate, I reckon your drowning in it at the moment! Sure, you might find the direction surfing is heading is "sad" but surfing is no different to anything else in life. Things change, for better or worse depending on your take.
Ahh, the good ol days.....
Love your work rabbits, I plead guilty to nostalgia in the first degree but Jesus H Christ, I still loathe the idea of surfing in a pool, allow me that!
Haha! Granted...
whats the carbon pollution impact of this pool in action? im all for 'progress', just not sure what its meant to look like. skiing in queansland anyone?
If you look at the petrol costs per drive per surf and divide it into the same number of waves in a pool then I'd expect that the wave pool wave will create much much less co2 per ride than the supposedly "free" waves that we ride in the ocean. Gees over a year of ocean surfing with all the drives to the beaches nearby and all trips up and down the coast and your seat on a 737 to Bali or wherever, if bet the CO2 per ride will be over ten times that of the super efficient wave pool. Not that the developer cares quite the same degree as an environmentally minded surfer but when you want to make a profit then you drop costs as much s you can and luckily in this instance, purely as a byproduct of normal business mechanisms the environmental cost is actually less than riding waves in the ocean. And I'm talking all up averages of 100 ocean waves to 100 wave pool waves.
Some guys only walk to the beach and so they drop the average for the ocean while others have to drive 50k a day to get there waves.
Hi Greg , could you please answer , "what if surfers falls off at the top of the wave and is in the way of the next surfer?"
Just wondering as I can only imagine your insurance premiums , unless of course you are made to ride a soft board?
I did sharkman they can't run oberbtje peraon in front since they move towards shore at 45 degrees the breakline. Plus other technical methods of making sure that it can't happen.
Greg I understand about the wave going at 45 degrees , so if you fall and the white water carries you inwards , but what if someone blows their top turn and falls off the back of the wave , with so many surfers in the water , is there a contingency plan ,or can you expand on the "other technical methods?"
Well if you can imagine waves peeling along a point and they're all breaking along the exact same line to within half a meter, then each wave breaks 10 seconds later into green water, since the first wave drags its own whitewash towards shore. After ten seconds the surfer who might have wiped out has to come up in whitewash as we know, so he can't be inbthe way of the next guy who's riding a wave at least 10m further out. If you dived off the back of a wave and paddled out a few meters then maybe you could. The two technical things are making sure there's enough of a wave gap when a smaller wave follows a larger wave since the smaller one will break closer in and the second one is having someone watching each side of the pool so that if someone dives off the back of a wave and paddles out a bit on purpose then the guy on the controls lifts the hull of the following wave and the wave dies out within seconds. The controller has about 5 seconds lee way
I hope your insurance Co understands what you have written , as 5 secs for a controller to react, with so many waves being ridden at once ?
It can't happen anyway so don't worry about it. It's less likely in a pool than the ocean so relax.
Welcome to Wave World, where no one wipes out and nothing can go wrong.
And if it does, the terms and conditions on the back of your ticket or at the entry point will ensure that you indemnify the operator against any injuries sustained and consequential expenses.
Yeah probably.
Some other swole-nut mentioned it before...anyways, what's the point of this again? Apart from coin? And the whole surfing/not working schtick? Oh, and whatever it takes and fuck the rest of youse. Rebels! Kooks! Flip a coin. Come in spinner.
Tall poppy blah blah fucken blah
A point of comparison is snow skiing where in effect man has created a wavepool scenario many decades ago. Groomed slopes, tows, easy and more challenging runs etc. It turned a fringe nordic activity into something more accessible. Did it overrun the world with frothing skiers and ruin the sport for those who like to go crosscounty or explore a bit? Not really, more demand created more supply. The safe comfort of slopes and tows in mainstream resorts suited the masses who stick within this environment.
Waves pools could follow this pattern.
Those of us who have done the apprenticeship in shifty beach breaks where wave judgement is critical, at crowded points where you need to play a form of 3D surf chess just to catch a wave, at spooky kelp covered reefs in the path of GW as they cruise the coast, in cold water, have skills, fitness and a level of comfort in environments and situations that would make a wave pool bred surfer feel frustrated, scared, unable to extract out a good surf from what is on offer.
Most of us have had days when you were too unfit to catch many waves, or the peaks always seem to be somewhere else, or a killer shorebreak made just gettjng out a test of endurance, or that after a trip away, where perfect waves were on tap day after day , the local beachbreak or crowded point is pretty unappealing. A high percentage of wave pool bred surfers would find hitting the ocean for a surf a bit like that - they would just lack the skills, patience, psychological comfort and fitness to chase ocean waves. Even more radical is the concept that they may even get bored with surfing after riding 1000 perfect waves. It could at least quench the fire to a point where they can not be bothered chasing the ifs, maybes and rainbows of quality ocean waves.
And given the inexorable Great White population growth we are facing and mum and dad worries about their precious son and daughter dangling their legs into the deep in shark territory, you may find they are a little hesitant to let their children leave the safety of wave pools. North NSW recent history is going to be a sign of things to come. How many mums and dads have recently quietly steered their kiddies into some other land based sport in the last few years? How many surf dads face the the awful (remote) possibilty of their kid being attacked - a situation where they will forever feel not just the loss but the guilt and blame of their wife for getting their kids into surfing? Not much worse could happen in life.
Personally i am quite happy my kids do not surf. A large slice of the population just will not ever feel comfortable surfing at 80% of spots we surf in the ocean. Personal and parental decisions will steer many to wave pools not the ocean.
So again wave pools offer an alternative and are not necessarily a stepping stone for thousands of newbies to hit the ocean consistently.
Finally, wave pools are going to happen, because they can make money, whereas the other means of increasing supply - artificial waves - will always be a rarity that, where they do occur will not produce 1000 waves an hour!
I love your thinking Frog , surfers who are scared of sharks and propose culling , will have an option of surfing in pools , and kids who learn in pools will have to stay in them which means repeat customers for life!!
Then all the urban surfers will not come to the coast , will stay at their local pool , where there are Bars, night clubs , restaurants , surf shops , shit there might even be a trend for some of those coastal dwellers to become weekend urban pool warriors , which will decrease the number of surfers on the coast, yewwwww
Sharkman, I'll bet you end up loving the wave pool world, perfect waves, groovy cafes, top surfboard brands being demoed, and a huge music scene with bands and DJ's firing it all up. The kind of thing you can only have at a public beach one or two days a year, but this is 24 hours a day every day. The scene would wind down to gentle rhythmic tunes mid morning as people ride cruzy lines on silky smooth waves. That's the thing with building such places, some will be quiet and low key with an environmental slant and some will be 'one louder' (via Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap)
Ha , big call Greg , but I can see your vision of an urban surf culture , and I seriously think that with most of our surf population being City people this will be a boon for them and should cut down numbers at the coast , which for some country people will take pressure off already crowded surf breaks , give an opening to young surfers , who can't get waves at the already crowded prime surf spots.
Thought though is that the cost for the younger generation might be a problem as we all know surfing is now an old mans sport , so you have to attract those 40+ consumers , who work all week , and need a break on the weekend .
the New Urban Surf Poolies can go party , surf , grab chicks etc, whereas some of us might just like to go surfing!!
Hi sharkman, Glad you can see the fun that can be had beyond just the waves, but it's of course your choice to get into all the other stuff. Nothing stopping you from just riding half a dozen pipes before work and then having a macchiato and some avo on toast with cracked pepper/himilayan rock salt and lime at your fave cafe 50m away from the lineup. I'm sure that experience isn't that evil.
Dumb ugly negativity on display here. Most surfers have dreamed of perfect man made waves since they were groms....and pioneers have always had their detractors. It's strange that some can be so against what they label greed but in the same breath so selfish of sharing waves with more new surfers. Self interest attacking others as self interested?. And yes, there were arguments against leg ropes made by brilliant minds that predicted all sorts of negative outcomes. I'm assuming the haters all wear leg ropes now....and ski in resorts...and pay for surf charters. Negativity dressed up as virtue is so lame....especially compared to the beautiful delight of someone catching their first real wave. More power to you Greg....it's a huge undertaking.
Thanks Blob. Clear and to the point. Yep virtue signalling is rife in this thread, it's a strong motivator since it's attractive to the women that these guys hang out with or hope to connect with. Understandable but if you also disrespect another man's contrary views by trying to belittle that guy then another primal instinct starts to engage.
Actually blob can you email me? Maybe a group debate could be fun! [email protected] I'll meet with one of these guys first and see if he is up for one more. Maybe live.
Good luck with the first pool Greg, I believe the combination of a skatepark like Woodward Camp would be great for Australia. You could then keep the prices low as the volumn of people increase. You will make your dollars in selling bandades and coffee.
Thanks Dean, Woodward have already shown interest, and yeah the mix of skate park, wave pool and BMX track would be fun to hang out at.
Geeze at the beginning of this thread i was sitting on the fence about wave pools but as its gone on and i can clearly see where Gregs coming from now,it is all about selling out the soul of what we really love about surfing and thats sad.......just another sport...what happened to being one with nature,well thats how i started a long time ago but now its all about money.As someone said above about busing people around to surf in real waves well that is all ready happening down at Mullaway with another money making enterprise called Mojo Surf where back packers fly in from anywhere get picked up at the airport and taken to a Mojo camp where they teach you to surf and bus you around to other breaks so its not uncommon to have a bunch of gumbies turn up on mals and get in the way........so some cunt can become rich.......Greg what happened mate ,Angas get to crowded for you too......
This is a great idea and good luck, its pioneering, really. Anyway, its not relevant to compare this with what nature provides - totally two different products. I think there will be competition from the the beach making wave breaks, as per Palm Beach on the GC. But this opens up the options. As a centre piece for a resort, park, etc good luck.
Get inspired by your dreams.
Thanks Tony, yes it'll be interesting to see how artificial reefs go too. They just need to be floaters not sinkers that are touching the sea bed.
Geeze at the beginning of this thread i was sitting on the fence about wave pools but as its gone on and i can clearly see where Gregs coming from now,it is all about selling out the soul of what we really love about surfing and thats sad.......just another sport...what happened to being one with nature,well thats how i started a long time ago but now its all about money.As someone said above about busing people around to surf in real waves well that is all ready happening down at Mullaway with another money making enterprise called Mojo Surf where back packers fly in from anywhere get picked up at the airport and taken to a Mojo camp where they teach you to surf and bus you around to other breaks so its not uncommon to have a bunch of gumbies turn up on mals and get in the way........so some cunt can become rich.......Greg what happened mate ,Angas get to crowded for you too......
I guess time will tell Simba. I agree with you, with the surf camps dragging excited new surfers to your break, it can get annoying and worse still dangerous.. But two things are happening here, someone is making money, yes, and the others are having a ball learning an amazing new sport. So when you point the finger at the business person making money I guess you don't give a damn about others having fun in the waves that are supposed to be shared. Nevertheless, I think some breaks should be off limits to organised commercial enterprises, be they surf tours of surfing events, Angourie is one prime example of a place where no contest has ever taken place and so there is resistance by locals over a long period of time, that's accepted by the business owners or surf clubs or contest sponsors to not go to some of these places. I know one operator who takes learners to a back beach of a wave south of Brooms head where not a soul will surf and so they get no hassle from locals and the learners have a ball in the waves all by themselves. But guess what? if this 'no go zone' is to be managed and certain breaks are to kept off limits to commercial ventures of any type, then this will have to have some management structure designed and a criteria set under which the earmarked surf spot must present it's proposal for being left alone. That makes even me cringe. Or we just keep making new waves and give the new surfers new breaks to ride and new towns to live in and leave all the headlands alone. There are thousands of kilometres of beaches in Australia between all the headlands, the bottom half of the continent having no outer reef so they all get plenty of swell but predominantly closeouts. This is a natural resource that can be utilised by building floating reefs without even building on the sea bed. But that's my next business venture.
Selling out the soul of surfing? I grew up surfing in the 70s and miss that vibe and the emptier line up and am no fan of the surf industry at times or learn to surf schools brigade. But you can find soul anytime you paddle out in good surf if the crowds are low. It is in your head. My frustration with the surf industry to date is that they have been all about increasing the popularity of surfing to make money in a sport of finite supply. For me wet suits are better but most of the rest of it has been a negative.
But wave pools are the first time ever that the money making drive (although I am sure Greg Webber and others are driven by the desire to create something amazing, not just money) has promised an increase in supply of waves.
Weigh up what greg webber and others such as wave garden are doing against what all the surf brands and surf schools have done in past decades and to me the wave pool movement is so much more a postive. All the rest has been just make a buck but worsen the experience for me through crowds. If the surf brands had created 25 artificial reefs with their profits they might be seen differently.
If someone makes money off wave pools and keeps prices reasonable then that is the most noble surf industry contribution since Jack Oneill pioneered the wetsuit as it goes to the heart of the matter - riding waves and having more fun as opposed to printing logos on over priced t-shirts.
Nicely said again!
Frog points out some great stuff here... 'It is in your head' - possibly the most sensible statement amongst all this hoo hah! Most detractors are missing the vital realities of what may be occurring and simply spewing out their own selfish ideas whilst at the same time making accusations about it all being about money blah blah... Selling out blah blah... Ruining the supposed soul of surfing, taking something away from 'your' supposed identification with nature blah blah... That is old, that is boring, that is a self contraction and personal view that only reflects your individual dissatisfaction! By this, and its tough for many to accept this, I mean that if you are truly content - if you really have gained so much from surfing and really have a respect for all it represents and all it means - in regard to nature or self improvement or sustainability of whatever train you which to jump on - then you can be ok with wavepools. They can be ok ;);) Really! It is only a struggle against the inability to accept the existing elements of our existence that provide sadness, reactivity and behaviour coming from within... Our internal state is a mirror of what's going on for you, and most of it is in your head - if not all of it ;);) A lot of what Greg is doing is being misunderstood, a lot of commentary comes from having a true lack of understanding and frustration. This is hard to push through for the average competent surfer who knows what he's doin in the water. I say this because often the competent surfer who has put in the hours over the years - decades for a lot of us - have seen the ugly side of surfing grow ... The nature side of things is not being taken away by a wavepool... 'Your' connection can not be affected if you are willing to share, choose not to be possessive and actually have respect for yourself AND others... The bitterness portrayed towards the wavepools is just a personal dissatisfaction within that already exists! Wavepools won't take this dissatisfaction away, but the 'idea' that a wavepool will take something away from surfing actually offers people the chance to project this illusion as though it is a legitimate form of expression!! Anyway, the debate is exciting because it allows us to share ideas, confront what we may or may not like and hence offers us the ability to maybe improve on things. The biggest shift needed is in our attitude, most surfers are pretty mellow and friendly;) Most of us want to share our stoke! This is a wonderful thing and can only enhance our experience.... So Greg you represent the essence of surfing - it's all about fun!! To those who wanna crawl out from under your rocks, well, go for it;);) 'Your' rocks will always be there to keep you sheltered from what's actually goin on.... The perceptions are just that. Wake up and realise what anybody else does is truly irrelevant to 'your' experience of surfing, whatever that may be for you.... The interpretation or assumption or what you may 'imagine' what Greg is doing is nothing more than that - something in your head based on your assumptions. If that pisses you off then go for a farkn surf!! Nothing out there can get in the way of what you think and feel - even if the line up is packed with gumbies;) Smile a little, lighten up, accept what is - maybe all the so called experts with their negative views haven't actually discovered what their own idea of surfing is. And if it's just an idea, you are truly farked;);) A bit of humility and open mindedness certainly won't destroy our strangely possessive and aggressive tendencies, and neither will a wavepool! Go Greg, you are doing surfers proud ;)
I'm puzzled as to why anyone except Greg Webber has a passionate opinion about this. Visit it and use it or don't, nobody is twisting your arm and it will have zero impact on anything else to do with surfing.
Another large commercial structure/theme park being built in S.E. Qld. Big deal. If that's your objection it's lame.
Good luck to the bloke.
Always funny to see people who have made a dollar in the surf industry, whining about the good Ol' days and the purity of the simple act of surfing blah blah.
Hypocrites.
Great stuff chin! Keep it coming... Hit it on the head there
Thanks Chin, nice a direct!
.....so the argument is that we collectively, are not in any way disadvantaged by the construction of wave pools? I think this is wrong. Jelly argues that it is all in our own heads and so just a problem of perception, but this works even more powerfully on the other side of the argument. The existence of wave pools changes people's perspective on surfing. The wave pool reduces surfing to a single element, riding waves, preferably perfect ones. This is a total change in the way many of us see it. Strange as some might find it a lot of us enjoy paddling out on a difficult day, we even enjoy a bit of competition for ways and, of course we all love the natural environment around us, even when it is an over-developed city beach. When you lose these elements you change everything. And the wave pool mentality will very quickly be taken out into the line up. The attitude that nothing else matters but riding waves will change the behaviour in the water in a very predictable way. Then there is the potential, unlikely but possible, that wave pools will open the door to a mass audience for surfing competition and with that comes a potentially huge increase in the number of surfers. So it's all in my head, well yes, but something else has the ability to penetrate other heads with a narrow and selfish view of surfing.
"The existence of wave pools changes people's perspective on surfing."
Might be a bit early yet, to be too pessimistic about it all.
To me it's just another step in the whole process of commercialising surfing, and a pretty negligible step at that. What about pro surfing, or even competitive surfing at club level, photographers, journalists, website proprietors, surf forecasters, publishers, surf camp owners, surf camp guides, boat skippers etc. etc.
All part of the big picture. I don't like any of it, having started surfing in the mid 60's, but I'm loathe to criticise any of it because it's such a slippery slope. I'd like shapers and wetsuit makers etc. to remain the cottage industries they once were, but where do you draw the line?
Has Simon Anderson stepped out of the realm of cottage industry? When does a cottage operation become not a cottage operation? Too many blurred lines and I can't have it all on my own selfish terms.
Anyway, getting back to this topic, if you're involved in the surf industry in any way, even if you're against it in general, then you are part of it.
Oh the paradox of it all.
Dead right again, Chin, the guys that are whining (that's the word to use!) are talking about "surfing" not surfing, and they don't even know it. Not one contest or leg rope or wetsuit or advertisement or popped out plastic surfboard has ever had any influence on the moment that we take off on a wave. Who is feeling a tarnished feeling due to the commercialisation of surfing when they do a nice roundhouse and bounce off the whitewash? It's just you and the wave every time, wherever that wave and you get together. The act of surfing is unchanged by any of this, unless you are trying to compete according to a criteria or trying to change your approach to a wave after being influenced by another even better surfer that inspires you. The latter influence has been there since surfing started so really it's up to the surfer to ride a wave naturally just for themselves as the vast majority do, or to try to do certain turns in order to get better, hardly a problem I'd have thought. The rest doesn't even register when you are surfing. So it's probably that these guys whining are attaching their identities to surfing for some additional ego reasons they're not quite aware of. If you surf you are a surfer, no need to stringently connect your views on surfing to your identity. Someone earlier wrote how nice it is to see the look on someones face then they ride their first wave to shore. Maybe these guys can't see that this is still all that we are doing no matter where not how many turns we do.
Not so sure waves pools are gonna attract the masses. No doubt riding one of these "surf breaks" would be fun. For a bit. But after you get over the fact its a man made wave, watching footage of the pros in a lake/pool/bath is a snooze fest. Even for an already keen viewer of surfing.
not this pool
When I see footage to the contrary I'll stand corrected.
Even more so if I happen to snag one of those drainers during testing ;-)
Im looking fwd to this happening, would there be membership options ?
Some of the practicalities will be interesting. What happens if you blow the takeoff is your 5 bucks wasted? What happens if some kook blows take off after take off - do you have to wait for them to finally catch a wave?
What happens if you drop your cup of coffee on the ground? And why does it have to be a kook that blows the take off? And you asked what if someone blows the take off? No they can't get the next one of course. He's got plenty more waves to come, and in the pool we've designed it you can alter wave height and shape super quickly so that you can take off at any size you like and then have the wave grow to full size. e.g. paddle on at 1.25m nice and easy take-off and then have it build to 2m within 2 seconds or 3 seconds or even 5 to 6 seconds. You will be able to choose the way the wave breaks or choose not to choose and have all manner of random waves. (within wave height limits according to skill level)
I agree with a lot of comments made in this thread and disagree with a few as well. Change is inevitable and we get two choices, we can be a part of it in a positive way or we can stand around crying into double skim, chai latte's with organic chia seed froth and be negative. This project brings ongoing employment opportunities and provides flow on sustainment work across a range of industries not just "Surfing". From a surfing perspective I see this venture as a "Surf" education opportunity, a place where fresh kooks can receive a lesson on line up etiquette and all the other things they need to know before they hit the beach lineup. They will learn how not to waste waves and have an understanding of how a lineup works. Frog commented "what if a kook blows the takeoff" I would think they would be automatically corralled back to the end of the line up, but at the end of the day, given the wave production rate it wont make much difference, you paid for a set of waves you will still get them. This is not Snapper on the best day in twelve months with two hundred others where your only getting two or three waves in half a day. What I would like to know is the estimated cost for a wave package per person, if waves are bought as a package is the wave package a standard set of one wave type or can the customer "model" their wave package to what they feel like on the day.
yes exactly, and the guys complaining about these new surfers not knowing anything about the ocean will be the perfect guys to teach them the danger and the subtleties of the ocean and earn great $ from doing it and also get the respect and admiration of the people they teach.
I think you confuse whining with people just being the devils advocates on your project.
You seem to presume that when surfers have learnt in a pool that there will be ocean surfers there ready to help , tech and make money off the poolies , shit mate when was the last time you went for a surf in a crowded surfbreak, its dog eat dog !!
Will there be Closeouts
blue bottles backwash rips onshores sunburn advertisement blimps
Fifty second holddowns
Dropins and collisions
Carpark rumbles
Night time disco lit sessions
Feral kook for freak's sake think about your attitude! Do you really believe anyone who offers criticism of this project is some sort of Chardonnay sipping fuckwit . Change might be inevitable but believe it or not we have some control of the type of change we get. We can vote, we can choose what products we use. Mate the politicians and corporations love you, the blind consumer, going along with whatever they propose because well, it's inevitable. You should get your head out of the sand before someone kicks your conveniently located arse.
BB think about it, you are being played like a strata caster.
That would be stratocaster karma. I play Gibsons.
fair enough but spelling aside greg is rolling around holding his substantial gut at how you and FR have taken the bait.
i disagree greg has come across as Principle Skinner-esq damming the youth for being out of touch with themselves. He is just another flog telling you what you need to have so his life is more comfortable. Hopefully as surfers we are wise enough to realise we already have it all
Christ yes. This give me convenience or give me death blind consumer attitude : "mayte it's fucking progress, can't do anything about it except it embrace it" is just about the biggest pile of steaming dog caca going.
Of course you can do something about it. At the least you can debate the merits and drawbacks of the idea in public forums.
Anyhow, time for a recap? Let me know if I missed something.
Bloke who stands to gain massively from a vast increase in surfers numbers to feed in as consumers into his wavepools is advocating for .......a vast increase in surfer numbers and, no surprises, thinks this is an excellent thing all around because as well as paying per wave in his wavepools they will be spending less time on Facebook and Instagram.
Presumably these wavepools popping up like mushrooms all over the joint to service this massive increase in surfers numbers (for a slight profit, granted....well, massive profit) will also enrich developers, retailers, etc etc and maybe kickstart a whole new golden age of a resurgent surf industry built on the back of cashed up new wavepool surfers already conditioned into thinking surfing=money.
Slightly more surprisingly, other surfers (surfees?) see this commercial manouevre as the greatest act of generosity of spirit since Jesus handed out the loaves and fishes - except Jesus the old socialist didn't sell the fish for ten bucks a piece, he gave it away.
Others see these new surfers - those of the wavetub, who know surfing in purely transactional terms only- I pay my money I get my wave- as being perfect for being taught the finer arts of surf etiquette: no, you don't pay and you can't take every wave you want.
They also see these vast numbers of new wavetub surfers as not contributing to surfing crowds in the ocean because, well because the ocean is such a nasty place, who would want to play in the ocean for free when you could pay to do it in a wavepool. Therefore, they will all dip a toe in the ocean and then never do it again, running back to the shelter and safety of the pool, where they can surf and shop in total comfort (and discount Tuesday with special house DJ's from Germany)
Could not make this shitt up.
Freeride, I've sat on the sidelines for two years whilst you have spit your socialist spin.
It is mind blowing to watch you pretend to take the moral high ground on issues, only to peel back the veneer to see a very bitter and selfish man.
There is nothing evil in what Webber is trying to do. There is nothing evil about making a profit for providing a good or service that people enjoy.
There is plenty of evil about worrying about more people taking up your sport and therefore crowding a lineup that doesn't belong to you.
This isn't heaven, mate, and when people don't have motivation to work and create, people either don't or they do a poor-ass job at it (see communist China and their "chabuduo" culture).
I love how you criticise the system that provides you access to hundreds of goods and services (not to mention personal freedom) you wouldn't otherwise have.
On another note, the comment that Jesus was a socialist because he willingly gave things away is ridiculous. Socialism is about stealing wealth from those who earn it in order to redistribute it to a) the less fortunate b) lazy pricks.
Anyway, after two years you finally annoyed me enough to open an account.
Thanks BChap, saved me writing anything.
I don't think its necessary to be mentioning sharks and point breaks becoming over taken by wave poolers lol. Yes, the people who put up the money or their time will need to get a return "der".
Thank you, Greg, for making my life long dream a reality. I also as a grommet have dreamt of building an artificial bank my thoughts was sinking boats, Tying a thousand car tires into a huge triangle, all of those thoughts you get as a grommet in the school holidays waiting for any thing surfable.
Thanks Mt Wax, I had the exact same dreams of making sand banks and reefs that would make perfect waves. You'll love the two new methods I've developed for the ocean, both of which can be moved and removed without doing any damage whatsoever to the environment.
Greg, I can't wait. I'm so pleased you are moving forward with your work. So lucky it's going to happen in my life time. I understand what some people think about missing out on the adventure of traveling for days to get to a far away deserted island with your mates and possibly scoring but that's exactly the point I don't want to go to third world countries and be disappointed with the crowds and missing out on a swell by 2 days getting pissed off with the uneducated surfers and then having to fly here and fly there getting cut getting sick. I have had a wave addiction all my life and have surfed pretty much all the world class waves. If there can be a way of satisfying my wave addiction when I want and knowing its there when I want its a dream come true. The money saved on travel and time off work will be now spent on a sure thing. People seem to forget that there is only a certain amount of waves per day at any given spot and they are not shared equally. The way that surfing is growing so fast and old surfers are far more evident and they are actually returning from retirement. A wave pool is the best thing for every body whether you plan on using it or not.
I,m no business man , but I,ve watched a few episodes of 'Shark Tank'. If this is just being setup to be licensed out to any dickhead with a fist full of cash looking to cash in on the ever growing surfing market, then I would say your motives are a little soulless . I imagine that you,ve been in touch with the Asian tour bus companies , and are aware of the kickbacks that are needed to be paid to these companies in order to keep those big white , signless , tinted window coaches rolling in . Oh yeah , piss one of them off and you may find a lot less traffic going thru your turnstyles. The price of kicking back to these 'operators' affects the pricing of such venues . From what I,ve gleaned so far , I don't see it offering a lot to those who want something more than a theme park experience.
As I,ve said , I like the concept of a decent wave pool done right, and I certainly don't wish to discourage your work. far from it , but I won't be sipping a $15 Corona on a deckchair listening to shit music when I,m done.
we will just have to wait and the then.
Hi freeride76, hi everyone.
If we strip it all back and start from the beginning we can see the seeds that have sprouted to become the here and now, Webber Wave Pools.
Greg is just a mad, creative frother who experimented and played and dreamt and came up with not only (speculatively) a better wave than Kelly's but the concept and wave park dream to go along with it. I think that even if we don't agree with his final concept we should respect the whole process he has been through to arrive at where he is today. It does take a visionary
to pull this method out of the ether and, to make all of his concepts come to fruition he needs a strategy and he is doing his damn best to make it work.
I think all this fiery debate is a bit unnecessary and we can discuss it in a more gentlemanly way; without the surface hatred.
Cheers
Billie you have summed it up well and the thread suffers somewhat by a lack of moderation to keep it civilised.
One vital point overlooked is that for Greg's, or any other wave pool to become a reality the funding needed is way beyond the pockets of the dreamers and rquires the support of venture capital who will have ultimate control no matter how many contracts you have in place to keep them honest. In that respect "surfing" just becomes another consumer word for profit which is where, I believe, FR and BB have pitched their opposition.
Greg knows this but has no option otherwise his idea is dead in the swirling tide of profit v passion. His only chance is a sellout of any control and if he thinks he can argue against that, he is deluded. He only turns a buck by selling a licence to mega buck organisations with deep pockets and cruel lawyers as the stitching.
At least kelly has enough 'clout' and individual wealth to garner support that will allow him to indulge in the passion of perfection, to a certain extent. Greg has no such luxury.
The history of any surf related business that has danced with VC's and public companies is a clear path to destruction and always ends in tears. Greg is passionate and has some really good ideas and if he was individually very wealthy he could play with his dreams and who knows what could become of that. Sadly that is not the case and IMHO it will turn into a commercial clusterfuck controlled by people who have absolutely no concept or respect for what we currently know as the surfing culture.
Form a surfers co-operative to fund these pools and keep the mega greedy developers out could be a solution. Sadly that is a pipe dream and greg will sadly only learn that when it's too late.
But , but .... no matter who's in charge , we're still getting 20,000 new surfers on the Sunny coast alone , right ?
Phew !
For a second there I thought we'd be stuck with the current shortfall in surfer numbers.
PS Freeride - This is happening. If you can't beat them etc etc.
Great points ljkarma, these factors are exactly what I've spent the last 13 years dealing with. But what you, or probably anyone else in the public surfing world don't know, is that I am still the majority shareholder and in effect I still control the very company that owns the IP. I have a great bunch of directors who I've appointed precisely because not one of them is a 'yes man', and one or two pressure the shit out of me at times, but my long term vision gets explained here and there to allay their concerns. So once this prototype gets built and if it's as good as I'm hoping, then oddly enough I'll be in a position to steer the way it grows far more than anyone might have thought possible. I've had significant offers before but money is just the byproduct, it's making something that blows people away that interests me. But, at the same time it's not for me or my company, the licensor, to demand how some developments get themed or what kind of buildings and businesses get located next to the pools. My company will make our own pools in time and our own developments, while partnering with existing hotel and retail groups, and it will be when we can totally fund our own developments that we might just create places to surf and live that the bitter guys in this thread will adore to come to. Sadly for them though, not one of their self righteous criticisms will have influenced anything at all since the idea to create something different has been there since the beginning. For fuck's sake you guys, check out liquid Time the movie i made with my brother Mont, that only stemmed from me making perfect little waves by myself on the river in Yamba just because they look amazing. As if was ever going to make any money, it was made because the waves were the subject, not a guy surfing the waves, not any brands to sponsor it.
So we made a film, (1999) then patented the method, (2004) then did a decade of research and trials, managed to get a $250k research grant, then did $150k of artwork over 7 or more years, and continually sold an almost unbelievable story to gutsy risk taking surfers with a little bit to invest which has funded this thing since the beginning. I don't have Kelly's backing, but I still run the company. Anyway he and I will partner in some way I'm sure. We get on very well and have similar dreams and visions.
Billie I feel this has been a really good healthy discussion no one has gone Greg (don't know what happened with the Freeride thing), and he has been very forthcoming in his motivations and what he is trying to achieve. We all don't have to like it. If you want mindless, go the person debate just go to stab and you will see what can be done with a vocabulary of 5 words or less, all of them with 4 letters.
All for that billie but Greg, in my understanding, threatened freeride, so maybe start there in terms of moderating the tone. The fact that Greg had a vision and has worked hard to make it real, is not relevant to the discussion of the merits of that vision. The hatred you refer to has not, in my reading, been directed at Greg but at his concept. Fair comment I reckon.
Cool
No I didn't t threaten him, I just want to argue the points back and forth face to face so he has to attempt to be more mature and rational, (which he doesn't even vaguely try to do behind his moniker), and then record it so that we can do a follow up interview or debate within months, after he's ridden his first 10 second crystal cylinder at the pool that he's at best wragging. This is a study on how poorly people communicate in these public forums, all the way up to the idiocy we see in Parliament. So I'm trying to see if there might be a change that we can learn new ways of seeing the other persons' viewpoint without being emotionally irritated by it. Freeride is the perfect choice for me since he's very intelligent, expresses himself in a reasonably structured way, and is very emotionally attached to his viewpoint.
Sorry no blind boy if I'm being accused of being a money hungry greedy business man selling out the soul of surfing then that's aimed at me personally, and that's what I'm happy to respond to in kind. If freeride wants to go harder then anyone else then I'll go for him first. Unlike most business men though I'm not worried if some patrons or customers don't love everything about me, since I'm not into money in the normal way. In time the people who surf will choose how they want pools to look or how they will be used and if it's human nature to want a winner and have contests then there will be events all the way to the Olympics with all the brands aligning with it all. What right do I have to make people feel bad to like whatever they like, if i don't personally like it myself. I don't really like contests in nature but in a pool it actually makes more sense so I'm now into it. My whole idea is to have a range of wave pool developments and see what the diverse range of people prefer. One pic of a standard hotel development started this nasty thread and not one of the detractors asked if there are any other ways in which I or we could see it being developed. They just went "oh it's ugly or oh yeah it's all about money, or oh yeah Gregs greedy". None of them know me so they're not wanting to see if it might be done nicely, even though they know I'm more about experimenting than making money out of surfboards, but they merely do it to pan and abuse someone so that their tiny band of followers will go "here here" and make them feel acknowledged and validated.
Mr Webber has failed to address the most important question.
Will there be a wharf on the edge of the pool that an ol Wharfjunkie and his pals can suck down a few overpriced stubbies of VB while watching the action??
mate if you're dangerous and controlled enough you'll probably be working security at night and paying naught for anything!!!
So yes you'll be sinking a few VBs at pool side with your mates, along with cute girls in bikinis serving you. Unless you want the groovy hippy pool where you do yoga and mediate before surfing. But hey! that's the whole idea, it'll be your choice.
Billie - In your avatar - Is that a SUP in a barrel , on the foam ball ?
Greg - Are you still looking for investors ?
No comment
That's the best and the worst thing I've ever seen.
Does your mother know ?
I used to be a closet sup'er. I'm over it now though. NOBODY knows
yes Blowin, there's a small number of shares still available at the usual price before it's built.
I'm guessing at a 10x jump once we eclipse our rivals on day 1.
email me at [email protected] and we can go over it.
Sorry if I'm replying on this twice blowin but yes, a small number of shares are for sale before the cutoff.
Will there be a babies wave
A shallow end
a beginners reef with forgiving
Rubber coral
Handplaners surfmatters bodyboarders and SUPS
Saltwater freshwater seaweed
Plastic cups
'Saltwater freshwater seaweed'
Yes a newly developed plastic version of the Real Artificial Grass which absorbs impact and looks like seagrass! Sorry Greg I could't resist this one.
Point taken mem. There no doubt will be artificial grass at some locations, and who knows even some with seagrass, and cunjevoi and fish and dolphins in the waves with all surfaces looking and acting as close to nature as possible....And only body surfing allowed so you can't run over the dolphins. That's one pool I really want to build. Keeping the water clean enough will take some large volumes of water, a powerful water treatment system using zero chemicals but the technology is there. Not that we could ever get that pool built first of course.
Greg, I am the first to be called out on artificial grass as I have used it extensively due to it being so functional for soccer grounds and even training AFL as well as high use public areas such as schools, plus it has the built in absorption of either granulated rubber or sand. Has come a long way however can get really hot (there is even a cool version now). And yes the through put of water will be massive and a serious engineering challenge. I remember with the Pigmy Hippos the glass wall to observe them underground became almost useless due to the crap in the water. aThe cost and the waste of water changing that relatively small quantity in comparison to yours it every day, was untenable. In the end just had to see them in murky water.
Yeah I saw some of the new synthetic grass about a year ago and it vastly better. Looked like grass for the first time and as you said different levels of density.
As for the pool with creatures riding the waves, one of the partner companies within the usa licensee is a world leader in filtration systems for sea mammals and provided the system for one of the largest tanks ever made. As well as the anti gravity diving tanks for NASA.
Did someone just call me a socialist?
Someone actually opened an account just to say it........
The psycho-babble rains downs from heaven like Jesus tears.
And thanks for pointing that out BB.....the first man to play the man and not the ball was Webber. I didn't take it that way, but others might say he tried to threaten and intimidate me. He might have picked on the wrong bloke for that.
Considering everything I think the debate has actually been quite moderate and well informed. Well played gents.
Btw just to introduce some reality back into the debate there is nothing set in stone about the overwhelming success of wavepools. In fact, if you took a sober look at history you'd come to the opposite conclusion. The standard is either abject failure or lukewarm success.
Webbers may go exactly the same way.
These are big money investments that will need a helluva lot of punters through the doors, and not just one off philosophers but steady, week in week out payers. And an ever increasing number of them.
Y'see it's not the extra surfers who need the wavepools in order to survive.
It's the wavepools who need the extra surfers to make them viable.
This is business.
Steve, you have been at the centre of this debate with Greg and you are both worthy combatants passionate in putting forward your respective positions.
That IMHO is exactly the reason to not get railroaded into a forum that lacks transparency, AKA Greg's invitation to meet one on one. Oldest trick in the book, take in underground and bury it.
Don't go the 'live video or taped' scenario, unless you want to enter the spiders web.
It is interesting that release of Greg's pool becoming a reality (after how many years of speculation) is at a time that competitors who are already well funded and well into construction of their surfable proto in QLD is imminent.
One would imagine that any prospective backer of greg would be watching social media very closely and this debate is therefore important for them to gauge a level of reality as to whether the investment is viable. Keep the debate out in the open and that will flush out answers to the pertinent questions that many potential punters may have. Keep it transparent, not personal
I'm not wanting to hide the debate, but make it available live if Steven wants to try that. I've put that invite to him but maybe you didn't see that message. I did a live interview with Nick Carroll, Simon Ando and Blakey on the Coastalwatch/Surfing world site so maybe I'll see if Stuart can do a similar thing.
54", no foam, no fins, basically a skim board, potentially with bindings or horns, and a shoot or roll in mechanism, with ready, set, go lights, which speeds you in off the bottom behind the peak at max speed where you can do one a of multitude of things, like, perhaps a bigger rail turn than what is currently imaginable followed by an bottom turn to the heaviest snap under the lip to switch barrel ride. There's no foam or fins in this thing, it's just glass, short, pintailed - think Brad Domke crossed with Dave Hubbard's current stand-up Boog game, and Fred Compagnon strapped into an alaia.
Or are many of the narrow minded neg heads that brood on this site just thinking that it was going to be 25 litre thruster/quad set ups.. or just wonderful tweaks on what is currently happening..
.. I think it'll be that and more.
Once there's more of it, there'll be a bigger 'imagination trust' to develop from, and surely someone will come up with some hoverboardy skim thing that takes our current lines, both real and visualised, to new levels. there'll likely be strong influence back into 'purist' surfing.
Anyway, fuck paddeling in, I want a roll-in chute thing, a shit old of speed, maybe something frictionless, made from the material like that from those magnetic trains with a correlating sheet on the bottom of the board - which won't need much buoyancy... as we'll be fanging, .. so..
.. perhaps the waves could be ultra fast - like apocaplypes - virtually a close out...
It all could be anything, does it need to be closely related to what we do now?
When riding a wave, we love those feelings; pressure, weightlessness, stillness, power, speed, flight - just laying the fuck out of the rail..... These are our benchmark sensations of satisfaction. yes. think of your best barrel or turn- ever.
What about a critically warping bending inwards barrel that you can't see out of and has sooo much pressure and warp that you speed through whilst kind of laying a stall-turn thing.. imagine the blow-outs.. the blow backs.
Over time, we'll likely have new forms of craft, surfing and waves.
And how big can it get?
What are the physical limitations?
Imagine highly designed slabs- 8 ft with 10 foot of lip, part spiral.
And we could develop big wave training programs where the potential of death is taken out of the equation. Obviously not necessary, but if such a thing existed, I reckon the worlds top BW riders, and anyone keen, would utilise it for preparation for the real thing.
Anyway.. I live south of Sydney, and I will definitely make the trip to the goldy to try out Gregs creation- of course!!!! . It's gonna be the best in the world, even if its only 3 ft (it'll still be bigger and better than slaters- noting that comparison is the thief of joy) and even if it weren't, who hasn't been following every single step of the wave pool journey? - we're invested, and this is history in the making.. and hopefully while enjoying the experiences and process of the moment, we'll also someday soon look back on it as history, as a platform to what comes after successfully emulating nature: the creating of new species of waves and the sensations that may accompany.
And when we're old, we'll either be dead from war or pandemics, slaves of AI, transferred onto the main frame, or living to the age of 500 in some type of communalist utopian existence. I hope it is the latter. And if it is, we're going to need wave pools- lots of them.. so I see this, amongst other things, as bringing into existence an essential element (yes; fun is essential) for a future that I want to be a part of- one that also includes live and let live attitudes, nano tech that's utilised to heal the environment, wave pools, art live music everywhere, global and individual trauma healing, and everyone doing creative things in oneness with what ever god (or the simulation) is...
Thank you Greg, and your peers, for your pioneering creativity and effort.
See you there... we're already there.
Jack stance, better said than I could have. Exactly what I'm thinking. All of it. Specifically youre dead right on what we might now create in terms of boards and waves and entry methods and then the resultant feeling that these new relationships will give. The run in ramp is designed in my head and can suit finless or finned boards of slight buoyancy, neutral buoyancy or even negative buoyancy. For years we've been partially plagued as board designers, by the need to paddle through and onto waves. So when you remove that requirement then a whole new door is opened into wave and board shaping. email me if you can and we can discuss. (sorry Stu but I'm going to stop posting on this thread today or tomorrow, it's been fun but I'm getting nowhere with one or two guys since they know that others of like mind are reading their replies and that retains the tone that they have to exhibit, and they can't accept that they are looking more and more wrong as they get to realise that surfers, the customers, will choose how these things end up looking) [email protected]
Any restrictions of board shapes ..sharp noses or sharp fins
Cos Frank the dentist did a nosedive on his second wave and pierced the pool liner.
high wear areas will be either concrete or the tougher of the liner materials that is virtally impossible to puncture.
Hello! Hello! One question. Simple. Again.
WHAT IS THE IMPETUS BEHIND THIS PROJECT?
WHY IS IT SO?
That's too broad to answer sorry mate there are plenty of my replies up there which will cover it I'm sure
when you go back and read all the comments , answers and insults it becomes increasingly clear that the country people don't like the idea and the city dwellers love the sound of it , as they then can buy set waves and not have to risk travelling all over the place searching for good surf , getting there and being worked over by locals.
Looking at some of Greg's answers there is still a lot of very important questions that are not answered , that should be already part of a business plan , as in less than 6 weeks they start construction.
so has there been a purchase of land?
has there been a model made to test the theory's?
where is the business plan for investors?
there is one important aspect that needs to be thought through , with increasing sea levels , there will not be the same surf in 50 years so maybe wave pools will be the future even for the coastal surfers.
When Greg critiques Kellys pool , surely we must give credita to Kelly as he has a working pool , partners with the WSL and has USD $ 16 B behind him with the Ziff Bros!
My god sharkman what do think has been done over the last decade?
The land info is confidential, yes of course we've done modelling, scale and CFD, probably more than most hull designs to pass through the doors of the Australian Maritime college, and yeah, lots of fanciful and conservative modelling on potential revenue.
And yes I do give great credit to Kelly, he has helped make this previously failed industry believable.
I am not sure what you have done over the last decade , all I have really seen is an artists impression of your concept , but can only imagine that in 5 weeks when you start digging the foundations that there will be an opening ceremony , or something to commemorate the start of your project ?
If there are still shares for sale , do you have a prospectus we can look at?
I think wave garden is a success , and not a failed industry!
And you've never watched one of the videos on the webber wave pools website? Yes some shares left but no prospectus since we're a private company, and wave garden isn't a success in the way it needs to be. The cove is way better due to a decent wave rate but at a significant cost where the wave dies out to half size within one wave period or about 7 seconds.
Hi Greg , yeah watched you engineering video , a fishing boat and small test tank run , but a lot of the information , seems really old like the Olympic stuff and even the Wavegarden doesn't seem to make money from bars and restos' , just waves, The new Wavegarden in Austen/Texas looks great , the Spanish one has just been upgraded and looks even better, hopefully you haven't missed the boat , but with 4 weeks to go before digging commences for your pool ,exciting stuff.
Good on you. Well we've done much more testing than what we make public. Those pools are going to look uninspiring once we start making waves. I'm sure you're a capable surfer, so then, when you ride a wave that drains off a shelf or a sand bank , does that wave throw out more than a wave that doesn't a drain off? I know you'll say yes if you've ridden any thick or open tubes in your life. And also, having a sheet of water pulling back towards the wave makes the tube stay hollow further back, which can't happen with KSWC and WG because of the swell type they use. They make conical tubes and we have already made hundred of cylinders in the lab and the river that are pipes. How can I post a pic on this site Stuart?? I need to show what I'm talking about so it's not just a bunch of words coming from the mouth of another over confident designer.
I guess the first G C wave pools were Jack Evans 1950's WSR Burleigh & Snapper pools .
Snapper Pool filled with sand after storms, so needed to pump prime the Snapper line up!
Nation saw in 2016 ECL Burleigh' Wave pool fire up once more. (Now that's a wave pool!)
Mid 80's Gold Coast.
Coomera opened the Day/Night grass ski-lifts holding National Titles.
Cades County opened what is considered to be Australia's first Wavepool ?
Cable ski world opened around the corner in '90's
Australia's oldest wave pool still operates 30+ years later...(How old is that in Surf years?)
About 1/2 way down the pool-chest deep, hug the wall...Pick set wave No. 2 (From memory)
Kick off ...Porpoise down under, get up to speed...penguin the face- swan the bowl...Seagull the face twice, seal slick into croc' deathroll . Crash tackle a dozen waderz
Scoop up yer guts...check for grazes.
Spit out the chlorine ...salute the lifeguard & lounge the froot loops 'till next siren. (Repeat)
End your session with a Movieworld blockbuster, right where you scored your last barrel.
Must be 30 million perfectly surfable poolwaves gone down that drain in those 30 years.
Temple of Huey/Cave of Waves opened in 2006 with surfboard riding lessons ever since.
It's clear these small wave designs were clever, proving a big hit for all park users.
Neither of these wave pool gurus plugged their designs 10 x a day/ 20 years in advance.
[Factcheck] Erratic water speed rides are short lived on Gold Coast. Most end in tragedy! RIP.
Some thoughts about the realities of paying per wave, queues and the whole experience.
I do not like queues they irritate me. Five minutes would be great but more than ten minutes would be annoying.
I like to catch lot of waves. Twenty waves would hit the point of being a solid satisfying surf. I would pay 100 dollars for that every now and then as a treat if the waves were like Kellys wave pool quality. But if each surf was a carbon copy of the last the gaps between sessions would stretch out. If somehow they can vary size, create interesting shapes (such as bowls appearing mid wave) it would hold my interest more. Pure perfection has novelty value but can get boring (this has happened a few times in ocean but is so rare there).
Paying per wave would make me surf conservatively. I would hate blowing a wave by getting radical. This mentality takes away an aspect of the fun of surfing. The opportunity for pig out sessions in offpeak times would be a good idea to overcome this where you can catch as many waves as practical and so lose that mindset of i just blew 5 bucks on a mistimed turn.
Learning to surf at 5 bucks a wave will not be popular - too many blown waves. Perhaps they get tickets to the inside wash waves with no wave limit?
Visuals are a big part of surfing. Having the ugly jetty like structure metres away in front of you is a turn off. Hopefully the webber version gives a better view.
The whole surf experience is quite mixture to get right and just as crowds in the surf detract from it, annoyances at a wave pool could make what should be great a bit shitty. Getting issues such as price, queue length, blown take off rules, kooks in the way, wasting waves by missed takeoffs, wave variety, visuals, value for money specials etc right will be as important as getting the technology right to keep people coming back in numbers.
you'll just have too see Frog, we've covered probably all of your concerns or comments. Maybe pool one will get a bit busy once opened but more and more will get built soon after so the wave supply will hopefully keep up.
Wave Pool addendum.
With all due respect to families ! It pains me to say that Dreamworlds Thunder River Rapids Ride opened in 1986 the same year as Cades County Wave Pool.
This ride featured unpredictable fast swirling wave action.
Many a time bucketing swash overhead.
This and Rocky Hollow Log Ride most reflected pioneering 1820's Gold Coast Surfing.
Freeride, clearly you are driven by this subject. You claim your an independent writer and journalist. Stump up and Interview Gregg formally, ask the questions the supporters and detractors want answered and publish it without all the bias if possible please. There I said please, I am trying to play nice.
Ch-yeah!
we will be doing exactly that and recording it.
Ha!
I wouldn't fret too much, if it succeeds the dollars will come from the traveling Asian tour companies , and they'll be back on the bus once they're done , off to the next amusement/adventure further north. And they will be mustered like cattle, on and off all sorts of ramps, gangways ,turnstyles, and designated parking lots .I've worked in enough tourist industries to know how shit works. They are the same companies who 'kickback' to local Aboriginal Councils for exclusive access to places everyone else is barred from . Unless you're in the know , you would be surprised what really goes on. I just can't see this 'business model' being sustainable based on a perceived domestic consumption, again given the projected cost per wave etc I,d hate to think what a seasonal pass may cost, somewhere close to the national average wage I imagine.
again, there will be range of pool types that are tuned to a certain range of skill levels, some might focus on the type of tourist that you're mentioning and they're only making beginner waves up to 1.5m and some will be for 2m to 2.5m waves day in and day out for surfers who can handle that kind of wave type. and some that will try to do it all. Who knows? maybe two pools per development so you don't even have to look at or deal with learners at all, if that's going to be an issue with enough surfers.
Greg, can you tell us the planned opening date for this wavepool yet. And what will he hours of operation.
No planned opening date yet and no hours yet, that will come out after we test the thing and the developer decides on how to manage that side.
Please replace Subiaco Oval with this development. Wishing you the best Greg!
Thanks mate
Maybe even Lake Burleigh Griffin.
WOW.
We have a 'writer' (aka Freeride76 - Steve Shearer), who's 'career' includes:
- writing articles to promote surfing in remote locations,
- setting up 'the freeride voice' which included daily surf reports and surf stories, and
- being a surf reporter, giving daily reports of conditions, etc.
http://www.coastalwatch.com/surfing/11470/interview-steve-shearer-and-th...
But, Steve is 'unhappy' that:
- Greg Webber is going to make a profit off surfing, and
- wave pools will increase the number of people who surf.
WOW.
Floating in the lineup, waiting for the next wave is therapeutic. Lining up, standing on a hard surface, board under arm, to get the next wave does not sound so therapeutic to me.
A functional man-made wave has the potential to disrupt. Not just 'surfing' as we know it, but also a lot of other sports too, and a lot of retail concepts. But, the man-made wave will have to stand up to the hype. Time will tell.
gcuts - Graham Cutter
Nice argument gcuts. Have to admit though that I side with Greg in the first place. Hats off to Freeride and evreyone else for an open discussion.
Thanks graham for highlighting freeride's other surf related incomes which in my book are fine since he's going to talk about the scale of the damage I might cause as compared to his more moderate approach. But there is a mild level of hypocrisy nevertheless! As for waiting on hard ground in a queue I'm sure you'll handle. Hanging out in the lineup can be therapeutic but it's rarely like that, and mostly, for most people it's just a matter of a quick chat while hoping to be in a better position than the guys next to you when the next set arrives. You'll be watching waves being ridden, chatting to people next to you and possibly watching your last wave on a screen in front of you. Not torture.
Christ is there an easier way to get to the last comment rather than scrolling the whole page...Faaark !
Can we get the 'NEW' comment in a bold colour ?
Yep been on the dev drawing board for a while. Frustrating for me too. The idea is that we'll be able to highlight all "new" comments since your last visit to the page.
Quick fix of sorts that I use. Crtl+F to search the page then put the day and date in the search box, i.e. today 'Thursday, 31'. This then finds all of the comments from today. Not perfect but kinda works.
So many comments, so much angst from some. Personally I find the idea of wave pools exciting and have already started calculating how much I can budget each week to enjoy a sport I love. Just to throw a spanner in the works for some of the detractors; I am terminally ill, my strength is certainly not what it was or what is needed to combat crowds or strong currents. For obvious health reasons I can't run the risk of adventuring to far from home in search of empty, perfect waves. Apart from enticing people to take up surfing, undoubtably there are others like me who can benefit from this project. Unless you have been in my position, you will never understand the therapeutic powers of catching the first wave after another long stint in hospital - it literally brings me to tears. Greg, for me such a wave pool would be a blessing and I hope the first one appears soon, because unfortunately my time is running out. You (Greg) obviously have a great passion for surfing and this project; I want you to realise that such a project may be more meaningful than you originally envisaged.
Hi Matty, shit mate no good! Sorry to hear it even though I don't know you but email me anyway and I'll make sure you get more than one session on me. A few years ago I was approached by a psychiatrist in South America who envisioned our earlier circular design as the centrepiece of a mental health centre purely inspired by what he felt on his first ride after a long illness, just as you have described. It'll be invaluable for all manner of not so well people and I'll bet it will actually heal, if the hormones and chemicals of the mind get pumped much more often from doing a good carve or getting the time distortion that comes from being in the tube.
Apologies if this has been covered earlier (it's a long thread) but I'm really curious about how the pool will work when it comes to allotted waves. I'm all for this technology BTW. I can't wait to get stuck in to these waves when they finally open.
Let's say someone gets their turn at a wave and completely blows it on their takeoff, or pulls in with a poor line and get swallowed straight up.
• Are there other surfers waiting a bit further down the line to scoop up the other surfer's wave?
• What happens if someone has a complete shocker and blows it over and over? Do they blow their allowed waves and have to pay for going over the falls 10 times?
• Do the people down the line catching more waves than their paid share have to pay more for more waves, even though they were taking the scraps?
• Do you pay less to sit down the line and grab the odd one when someone falls off? And do you pay even less to wait even further down the line (say in a secondary zone)?
So many questions.
Ok I'll go backwards in this thread and try to reply to a few more. Good question, and my reply will allay concerns on one side and then irritate the 'purists' on the other. That's life.
Ok the wave making system we've developed allows for two key mechanisms that are not available at the beach.
1. The wave is designed by WWP and recorded as a file that can then be chosen. These waves can be viewed online with or without a surfer riding them. Each ride is designed to suit different skill levels and different desires as surfers get better and better and want to push themselves further. So, to answer your question about what if the guy falls off time and time again.... well the waves he or she can choose from are restricted by the skill level that they are currently at. Beginners waves start gently in the main channels at half the wave height that they end up at, so that they are way easier to paddle onto, and one of the surfer/coach attendants can also push the person onto their waves until they feel that they can do without. And ontop of that the coach can decrease the level of the push just like you would in the ocean as the the learner (usually your kid or girlfriend ) gradually gets the hang of it. So as a result consistent back to back wipeouts will be very rare.
2. There are no sessions. As you sit in the queue you have your range of waves you can choose from eg the John John 1.5m intermediate level wave type 7 labeled as JJ1.5/7 and you then tell the attendent with his tablet what you want. He scans your rfid tag first, checks you still have wave credits and then you can ask him what waves you can choose from again if you can't remember. You might even have a chat with him on how you handled the last ride and what you could try to do on the same wave again or should you just try another wave that has a softer fatter wall for a bit longer so you have more time to get your cutback all the way around before the wave starts speeding up. The pool owner/operator might even have more than one coach chatting to surfers in the queue who might want to see their rides on the tablet so that small adjustments can be made, or just to see how you or your board or even your demo board looked on the wave. And since all hulls can travel at different speeds then each rider can choose whatever wave type or size they like. It's possible that one side will be small to medium size and then the other side is medium to large just for ease of retaining the same minimum time gaps between hulls.
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer. Your reply is absolutely fascinating. I realise that the whole wave pool experience will be different to anything that any surfer is used to. All my questions are based on the ocean surfing experience, where good waves are precious. I hadn't thought that if someone fell off and a wave was peeling away without a rider, it wouldn't matter because you have your own custom wave to look forward to. That would be someone else's wave. Just crazy to think of the possibilities of being able to hone a wave of your own and customise it to the point that other waves don't interest you. Incredible. All I can say is I hope I'm still 'young enough' (physically able) by the time this technology is working for the public. Good luck with it all. I'll be first in line when it opens.
Can we go straight to the Shipstern or PPass option?
Obviously not. Wonder what the public liability costs will be for the concern of people impaling themselves head first into the concrete bottom.
Regardless if the opportunity arises would love to give this a go.
Sorry to hear that MattyMJ., sincerely,.terminal illness is a massive battle, But It sounds like there's a few more tubes in you yet . If they pull the wave pools off , one would hope Greg would shout you a couple of 5 second barrels.
Already offered
This might sound silly but what happens when someone drops a snickers or the like in the pool. after just watching caddy shack, and hearing about my own pool in my complex shutting down whenever a baby poos, dont they have to empty the pool and sanitise the walls etc? seems like an expensive practice
By the way im looking forward to this and i hope it comes to fruition, unlike that orlando wavepool that was canned.
Check Crystal Lagoons who we may partner with down the track. They use a tiny fraction of the energy (2%) and chemicals (1%) to keep it all clean. See links below
http://www.crystal-lagoons.com
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Lagoons
Is the Webber Freeride meet still going to happen ?
Yeah as soon as I get up to yamba if he's still keen. I'm up there nearly every month so it won't be long! I'm kind of keen to have more people involved though. I've got two brothers I'd love to have be a part of the debate, being Will and Dan. Then he can have two mates who might have similar viewpoints to him. They're both smarter than me so it'll be much more comprehensive. But I'm totally fine if it's just us two. It should be pretty entertaining since we both want to prove the other to be not just wrong, but an uncool person. We already don't like each other, how could it not get heated. He will over compensate for being nervous I'm sure, but I'll let him regroup.
He He ..S S nervous.....
clickbait ..nice try .
Sorry udo maybe it's the three gins I've had but I've got no idea of what you just said.
Ok got you! I thought the SS Nervous was a boat and you were creating some obscure metaphor! Now I'm laughing. But you watch the first moments of the video to see who's shitting himself .
Seeing as the whole experience is an artificial simulation of surfing an ocean wave, I find it a little bit strange that wavegarden developers have so far, gone to the trouble in both Wales and Texas to build wave pool that are open to the elements. Thinking its probably to keep costs down.
that looked cool and had proper barrel..think its closed.. I liked the "artificial" indoor vibe of that place, in the videos i saw more than what I seen so far from Wavegarden. Kelly's is mindblowing but freezing cold a large chunk of the year, and looks like it could easily get wind affected...but sure there will be many variations including indoor variety. Looking forward to see how the Webber pool stacks up in the pecking order of the existing technogies. Good luck...I could care less about design aesthetics or the surrounds..i have the ocean for that :) The way Greg describes it..its like a fantasy come true..dial up your perfect wave every time on demand..pay to spray (have that slogan for free:). My thoughts are, It would be far better to have them indoors where its always glassy, you don't have to worry about sunburn, could run day and night 24/7 winter and summer in temperature controlled environment, never have wear a rashy or wetsuit so you can surf at your loosest..you could even have fans to control for aerial events, or blow a lite offshore breeze up the face. A windbreaker could be achieved by enclosing the pool in shade cloth type material, but then you lose the temp control. Bottom line I would hate to pay big money have my slot..then a big storm comes over, it gets cancelled or worse still blown to mush.
There was an indoor pool in Japan
"ps, you might want to have a look at your attitude towards women mate, they could be half of your customer base."
I think it's great that Mr. Freeride is concerned that women are included. He's been very conscious of women with references to Vagina slurs in the past.
I'm not going to be hamstrung by politically correct codes of expression. Although I'll bet I've given more girls waves than any guy reading this thread. And by 'giving them waves' I don't just mean saying "go for it" when they're paddling for a wave that I could get, which I'll do, but I mean talking out loud to all the guys paddling for a wave to give the girl or woman or female the chance to catch one. Eg " hey you guys how about letting the girls have a wave for once" And what's great is that the second it gets said, all the guys paddling feel like pricks to dare to go for it!! It works but you can't do it all surf.
On average guys are selfish in the surf so women get a shit time of it. So when the pools are made women will never have to hassle with guys ever again. So MrPoolsrules, if these things get popular world wide I reckon I'll be doing more to ensure women get their fair share of waves than any other guy on the planet. And this applies for kids and unfit people and old people and guys who are just tired of hassling and anyone else who can't compete with the crowd of super keen male surfers who are understandably just too busy trying to get their own waves to be caring much at all for anyone else. That's standard the world over if you don't create some order.
You're a do-er Greg. Congratulations on getting this far. I'll be flying in for opening festivities I reckon. Really hoping this developer allows for maximum size straight up. Keen to see what you do with your clean energy solutions you have talked about developing, in a previous thread.
Thanks shoredump. They said "we need to make 2m barrels, no less" so it's designed in all aspects to do that. There's a small chance we can get to 2.2m but it will be very hollow if we do.
Thanks shoredump. Yeah it's my number one invention/idea/design. I've tested it and it's been assessed by one of the leading research scientists in the field of renewable energy and he initially rejected it and then two weeks later he must have got a grip of the design which is an open system unlike all other turbines, and said not only might it work, but it could get around the Betts principle which defines the limits of the efficiency of all turbines. I got the idea while staring at ocean swells from a plane while climbing between 5 and 10 thousand feet, while semi mediating, trying to sense whatever the hell swells are.
But I also meditate while driving at 100km/h so I guess I've been experimenting with that state for a while.
Hi Greg , just wondering will there be a ceremony in 4 weeks , when the work starts on the pool and what is the name of ," the leading scientist in the field of renewable energy?"
Did you see Kelly's new left?
Probably not sharkman since the developer wants to just build the thing, test it and then do the public release without anymore pics or words. Not for me to say re the professor who commented on the turbine.
And yeah Kelly's left looks lovely and so good to see Gerry touching the lip as he rode along. Good on kelly for inviting him.
this whole thing is smelling like a new religion. Guru Greg!
Ha, yeah it is a bit. And the best thing is that it has no deity to have to be beholden to.
2 mt barrels..so a standard domestic door in height ..Yew !
Yeah that's it.
Greg, if you build it, I will come :)
I'm no lawyer but I'm not sure how Swellnet would fit into a product disclosure statement regarding Webber wave pools.
Hey Greg. What are the rules for sharing the lineup, waiting your turn and such? How is it enforced?
A queue. You choose your wave while youre waiting, which has code based on who potentially designed it eg john John and how big the wave is, and the style of wave, all of which is presented online with a surfer riding the wave and unridden. Your RFID wristband is scanned and you're charged at that point. You have either bought credits or it's just run by topping up your account. This is how I'd do it since it gets around sessions. If you have sessions then you could arrive wanting some 2m pipes,with not much time to spare and the beginners session is still going. You choose from a large range of waves that you can check out online or you choose to not choose a style and go for a random wave which changes in speed and size and shape as it goes along.
so 'one of the investors' is a real surfer who hangs out with mates who like 'doof-doof' music eh? Can't wait to Q up with them with that blasting in my ears.
Maybe take a leaf out of your old dad's music choice and listen to a track..."Blinded by the light..
Min of $12.5 K investment for the David Baird / Webber Wave Pool on the Sunny Coast
So what happened to that Wave Pool Greg ?
bob_s are following this ?
We have no connection to those guys anymore
Any chance of a Cable Ski World take off set up. Runaway Bay was a hit for surfers and relatively user friendly. You could use an electro magnetic lock so you can get whipped into the take off zone in two staged speed timed hook up. Turn the cable speed up for an aerial straight up. http://adrenalineconstructions.com/products/magnetic-pulley/
All sorts of entry methods can be trailed down the track. This will allow surfboards made of any material to be used since they no longer need buoyancy to paddle on.
A lot of wank knob comments from self appointed experts /well done Webber =been following your vision for years, glad to see it move forward
Thanks roondog. And yeah, it'd be good if all critics had to disclose the level of their experience in the subject that they are critiquing. Then the reader could put the appropriate weight on the statements being made. It doesn't mean that someone can't express any point at all but if for example you have limited or zero experience in a certain field then the viewpoint will be taken less credibly.
Thanks roondog. And yeah, it'd be good if all critics had to disclose the level of their experience in the subject that they are critiquing. Then the reader could put the appropriate weight on the statements being made. It doesn't mean that someone can't express any point at all but if for example you have limited or zero experience in a certain field then the viewpoint will be taken less credibly.
Well Greg, will having to pay to surf or
having pay for a wave 'taint' your whole experience in an artificial environment. The whole surfing experience is so much more than just riding a wave, the freedom you feel in the ocean, the sand underneath your feet, the sunsets, the freedom and all the other Good Vibes that go with it. I don't think anything can replace that. No one-- should ever have to pay anyone--to ride a wave. Stoked I got the real thing
Of course it will taint it to some degree for some people. And of course the whole experience of surfing is more than just the wave but does that mean it shouldn't exist?
"These few Wall Street Flesh Merchants--seek to unify surfing--only to extract the wealth.' MSD--aka--Da Cat
Yeah he was a passionate and grumpy fucker who also gave a theatrical rendition of all the shit of modern life going over his head like the lip of a wave. He had authority figures stuck in the lip going over the falls which is a fun thing to visualise but he was highlighting a metaphor that may one day become a philosophy.
(Assuming Webber's pool produces a barrelling 2m wave for 15 seconds and can be customised/randomised) - would you be prepared to pay the equivalent of an annual Ments trip for a membership ($300/mth)
Here we go, a figure.
$3600 year.
Who's up for that?
Same price as a golf club membership at a decent course.
Wonder what the break even point for number of members/consumers is required.
Dude, give it a rest. If you don't like it dont go. Jeezuz the bloody whinging!!!
Who knows how memberships will be run but I don't favour them. Ideally you can drive to a pool and have half a dozen quick waves for $30 to $40 and go. Or hang for a whole weekend and have 50 waves and stay in a hotel or cabin, have lunch and dinner and go to a bar and have a massage and do some yoga and ride three demo boards. The more flexible the better which is why I'd favour no session times and no membership.
Thanks all the same nogo but there seems to be some interest in me and Greg catching up and discussing the pros and cons of wavepools.
maybe you could skip the thread if it pisses you off.?
Are you going to cough up the $300/mth?
Maybe you can video the catch up :)
I would pay up to $50-$80 an hour when it goes flat or onshore as it does over here. (WA)
Exactly, when the swell isn't there or the winds are wrong for long periods of time and all keen surfers start getting that desperate need to ride anything at all, then the anti wavepool crew will have to struggle to not go.
"Most of us have had days when you were too unfit to catch many waves, or the peaks always seem to be somewhere else, or a killer shorebreak made just gettjng out a test of endurance"
Well said, frog, but I would challenge you and say that if you haven't had plenty of those days then you aren't a surfer.
Why is Mr Webber doing it? Well, does it matter? If it can be done, and there is no engineering problem that can't be solved, then somebody is going to come up with it. It doesn't really matter that it is GW. I wish him well on his venture, in the sense that if it doesn't work then a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. On the other hand, caveat emptor.
For mine, I'm unlikely to get there, and not very likely even if it was nearby. I have a few spots that I can get near enough on my own or just a few others, and I enjoy the bastard fickleness of the ocean, the fact that it is so hard, that those perfect days are so few and far between. I like sitting out there, getting out there, and most of all looking back at dunes and scrub without a house in sight, or barely any. I'm attracted to the variables, the occasional punishment, the surreal beauty of something created from winds so far away now exploding at my feet, the visceral and sensuous thrill of it all.
I can't see that as being provided by the wavegarden. It will supply something, a facsimile, Baudrillard's simulacrum, and as most of life is now a simulacrum anyway I don't mind that others are attracted to it, and I'm not going to diss you if you do, and a barrel is a barrel is a barrel, well, sort of, in that finding one in the ocean is like finding a pearl in an oyster, as opposed to going to a jewellery store and buying a pearl set for your dearest (or yourself, not that there's anything wrong with that)
My head is going increasingly the other way, I want more authenticity, not less. I want more connection, not less, I want to to feel the cold, the frustration, the tiredness, that little tinge of fear as a bomb is coming my way out on the horizon, the sense of anticipation, the difficulty, the intuitive notions that must be assessed to paddle to the right spot, making that difficult take-off, the glorious stupidity of it, the regular frustration which makes the good ones that much more memorable.
A 3' wave in a pool, even perfect, only satisfies about 1/20th of the surfing experience for me.
I also love getting into my car to get away. The surfing is just a part of that experience.
As for what effect it has on surfing population numbers, well nobody has a clue to that. Look at the surf schools. I'd say that without them, those who were going to take it up have taken it up, and those that weren't got a nice day where they might even get a picture of themselves standing up the foamie on the foam. A glorious day for them, absolutely no effect on surfing population, mostly, I suspect.
So many contributors on here, I felt compelled to add my view.
As for the inherent evil, well, there's some serious shit going on in this world, and certainly the neoliberal dominion is a big part of that, but I don't see this is one of the great problems of our time. Just change, which some will mistake for progress.
Best post by a long-shot, BF. You had me at Baudrillard!
Brilliant contribution Batfink.
I'll second that!
Aye, great post, batfink. Every sentiment.
Jeez I'd be happy to close off the discussion after Batfink's comments! Agree wholeheartedly, all of it. Encapsulated the frustration, hardships and wonder of surfing, but allows us to respect Webber's pool for what it is in this loopy, modern world and anyway why should we begrudge those that will have a bucketload of fun playing in it. Greg you probably wont make much money out of me from the pool as it's kinda the antithesis of how I go about my surfing but I applaud your inventiveness and good luck... sincerely.
Exactly. Why would anybody want to begrudge those that will have a bucketload of fun playing in it. EVERY surfer loves to get away, to interact with nature, to swim in the ocean. Wavepools are wavepools. No one is pretending it is anything other than an add on. Fresh fruit is my favourite food in the world. The energy it gives my body and spark it gives my mind keeps me starting every day the same. I enjoy being conscious about my fitness. But guess what, I love beer too. I might even have some this weekend. Is everybody ok with that? Is it ok to enjoy as much of life as possible? Do you think variety is the spice of life?
To me it's so simple and there is no debate. It's a beautiful world out there. All of it.
From all the posts I've read, Greg, I think your a diluded man. Only time will tell where this all will lead.
Is that diluted or deluded? I actually laughed at your comment then freeride. In a good way. And ps I'm half way up the coast already and have a week to spare but firstly to see family in yamba.
Greg thats freerider not freeride 76
I see people here like the natural inviroment of surfing that a wave pool may not have, true. What about people who swim in public swimming pools , they are there to swim and enjoy it, then there are people who will swim at the ocean. So both locations work for swimming and should be similar for surfing. My main aim when surfing is the catch goods waves, try and surf it well and have fun. A wave pool will offer me that more than what i get now . I do not need to go surfing to enjoy the ocean, i can go there anytime and relax on the beach or just swim. Looks like guys against wavepools must live near a good uncrowded pointbreak or ride a longboard.
Agree in full cw, I really don't get what all the hate is about.
It should be as simple as that concrete wave but the main thing that's happening is that the anti wave pool crew are publicly projecting that they have some deeper intrinsic connection to surfing and therefore nature, than anyone else on earth who would 1. Dare to make money out of surfing and 2. Create a thing in nature and make it conveniently available. They also need regular confirmation that their points of view are being valued too, or else they wouldn't be on threads all the time.
Concrete wave and nogo -
You guys seem to have already forgotten a lot of the posts before yours.
Apart from some potential benefits such as enjoyment and "inclusiveness", we've also come to see that there are some potentially negative aspects to wave pools as well.
Environmental – large-scale consumption of water and power
Moral – at a time when it would more beneficial for people to be establishing a better connection with the earth, wave pools instead facilitate becoming further disconnected from nature
Political/economic – is it reasonable to commodify the act of riding waves
In light of the society and the world we live in, I guess it's it's easy enough to write off these above issues as being a bit esoteric or just a part of our society.
But for me, the potential issue of crowds is the big one and is the one which will have the most tangible impact on surfers. And in addition, the issue is that some individuals care so little about the broader surfing population that they'd go ahead with whatever project they feel like and flip the bird to anyone who is negatively impacted.
If you go back to the previous page you'll see discussions about the kinds of numbers that wave pools are looking to put through and the potential flow-on effect this will most likely have on ocean surfing.
It boggles my mind to think that anyone who has received enjoyment from surfing would think that this is a good idea.
Maybe I'm selfish, but for me no more selfish than going to a National Park and expecting it not to be over-run with crowds to the extent that you can barely walk along a path. The natural follow on from this is to have permit systems and pay-to-play setups - they already exist to control crowds in some National Parks, I find it pretty easy to imagine ocean surfing reaching this stage, especially with a huge flow-on effect from wave pools.
This actually sounds like a really good pathway to commodifying surfing anyway, doesn't it?
Concrete wave, especially after reading Batfink's gold standard post, it's pretty sad that you think that surfing in a pool will offer you "more than you get now".
It boggles the mind that anyone would think its a bad idea. Personally I think it will take people out of the ocean. Just because someone can surf in a pool dosnt mean they can surf in the ocean. They will get there I guess in the end but life surfers will always rule coastal surf spots. Ya 35yo who just learned, well he is going to have problems just getting through a shore break as there is no duck diving in a pool.
Hell they are building one in WA and I can't wait!!!
Batfinks post is good but that's him, not me.
Sorry andyM but your totally wrong. The more people on earth who ride a wave the more people will have their values shifted purely by the act of riding a wave. It's the least materialistic desire other than sex. The wave is what is at the core of surfing (gees did I even have to say that???) and if you do a little close out reo on a shore break at some city beach with nothing but concrete and steel as a background did it in any way whatsoever feel less fulfilling than the same little redirection on the shore break of a country beach ? The more people who surf the more people will see how amazing real waves in nature actually are and so then more people will value nature. So we surfers either hold onto surfing with understandable selfishness or we make waves in large numbers in all manner of ways and share it globally.
A wavepool would have to offer more than i get now, what i get day to day know is crowded, small surf mostly, if i wanted uncrowded i go to the beach break that is mostly a close out.
If have your national park to go to good for you. I cannot get to those places easily or have the time. Skateboarding is another example . The first place skateboarding was done was on the streets, then they built skateparks . The streets are not as crowded now because they have skateparks to go to. There are skaters who will just skate the streets and good for them. I understand wavepools are not for everyone and enjoy your surf trip. A wave pool should help me improve my surfing , i like to learn and grow. Some people may just want to cruz and not grow. Enjoy what ever you do.
Nogo I just gave you 4 reasons, 3 decent and 1 very strong, as to why wave pools might be a bad idea.
And it defies all logic to think that enough people will use wave pools (at significant expense) to the extent that numbers in the ocean will be reduced.
You must be taking the piss.
And, as you'd know if you'd done much surfing, there are plenty of spots where rank novices can get out without having to duck-dive.
Just because you gave me 4 reasons I should just lay down. I'm not taking the piss.
Yea some reef breaks and weak beachies.
Hey if they don't work they will become expensive skate parks....
If they build them I will surf them....
And andym, there are plenty of reasons FOR as well. Relax! As for your 4 knockout reasons:
"Environmental – large-scale consumption of water and power".. Umm... riding treadly to local pool /20 min drive VERSUS jumping on a huge jet, spew umpteen kilos fuel into the atmosphere flying to another part of the planet, or drive long distances to remote places as i tend to...pros and cons eh?
"Moral – at a time when it would more beneficial for people to be establishing a better connection with the earth, wave pools instead facilitate becoming further disconnected from nature" ..umm.. wavepool = being outdoors, physical exercise, connecting with the concept of wave forces (yes, waves, artificial as they are they're still waves and I'd be happier to see kids connect with that than their phones).
"Political/economic – is it reasonable to commodify the act of riding waves" .. reality check bro..surfing already is!! YOUR wetty, clothes, surf hardware, ments boat trips etc etc etc. Surf mags. Surf corporations. Contests.
Way of the modern world, unfortunately.
Greg , you mentioned a few years ago - Approx $1 of electricity to make a 15 second 2m wave .......is that still the case ?
Yep
Greebs -
Don't know how driving 3 minutes to my local compares with the resources and energy involved with a wave pool. And you talk about flying around the world, boat trips to the Mentawais - we obviously move in different circles.
Moral - you made no case whatsoever linking wave pools to the natural environment.
Anyway, that was a "decent" reason as opposed to a "knockout" reason lol.
Political/economic - what you have pointed out here is commodifying surfing instead of commodifying waves - huge difference. Do you see what I'm saying regarding a large increase in crowds at ocean surf breaks potentially leading to ocean waves being much more tightly controlled? And then (in true neoliberal fashion) being privatised?
I reckon you're scoffing right now but increase Australia's population by 50% + wavepools + surfing in the Olympics etc etc and I think it's an absolute possibility. Add a few serious accidents and a couple of assaults and we're well on the way.
But it's all good as long as a few individuals get rich and a few "surfees" get instructor jobs (PMSL!) at the local wave pool, right?
I've had 30 years to develop artificial reefs and even cheaper ways of making a closeout beach enjoy rebounding wedge waves at very low cost, and without laying thousands of tonnes of rock. The pool is just phase one. (Although to be honest the rebound walls were a recent idea)
AndyM... thanks for your input, this may boggle your mind;););)
-Most detractors are missing the vital realities of what may be occurring and simply spewing out their own selfish ideas whilst at the same time making accusations about it all being about money blah blah... Selling out blah blah... Ruining the supposed soul of surfing, taking something away from 'your' supposed identification with nature blah blah... That is old, that is boring, that is a self contraction and personal view that only reflects your individual dissatisfaction! By this, and its tough for many to accept this, I mean that if you are truly content - if you really have gained so much from surfing and really have a respect for all it represents and all it means - in regard to nature or self improvement or sustainability of whatever train you wish to jump on - then you can be ok with wavepools. They can be ok ;);) Really! It is only a struggle against the inability to accept the existing elements of our existence that provide sadness, reactivity and behaviour coming from within... Our internal state is a mirror of what's going on for you, and most of it is in your head - if not all of it ;);) A lot of what Greg is doing is being misunderstood, a lot of commentary comes from having a true lack of understanding and frustration. This is hard to push through for the average competent surfer who knows what he's doin in the water. I say this because often the competent surfer who has put in the hours over the years - decades for a lot of us - have seen the ugly side of surfing grow ... The nature side of things is not being taken away by a wavepool... 'Your' connection can not be affected if you are willing to share, choose not to be possessive and actually have respect for yourself AND others... The bitterness portrayed towards the wavepools is just a personal dissatisfaction within that already exists! Wavepools won't take this dissatisfaction away, but the 'idea' that a wavepool will take something away from surfing actually offers people the chance to project this illusion as though it is a legitimate form of expression!! Anyway, the debate is exciting because it allows us to share ideas, confront what we may or may not like and hence offers us the ability to maybe improve on things. The biggest shift needed is in our attitude, most surfers are pretty mellow and friendly;) Most of us want to share our stoke! This is a wonderful thing and can only enhance our experience.... So Greg you represent the essence of surfing - it's all about fun!! To those who wanna crawl out from under your rocks, well, go for it;);) 'Your' rocks will always be there to keep you sheltered from what's actually goin on.... The perceptions are just that. Wake up and realise what anybody else does is truly irrelevant to 'your' experience of surfing, whatever that may be for you.... The interpretation or assumption or what you may 'imagine' what Greg is doing is nothing more than that - something in your head based on your assumptions. If that pisses you off then go for a farkn surf!! Nothing out there can get in the way of what you think and feel - even if the line up is packed with gumbies;) Smile a little, lighten up, accept what is - maybe all the so called experts with their negative views haven't actually discovered what their own idea of surfing is. And if it's just an idea, you are truly farked;);) A bit of humility and open mindedness certainly won't destroy our strangely possessive and aggressive tendencies, and neither will a wavepool! Go Greg, you are doing surfers proud ;)
wow I hadn't checked this convo for a few days and now we are onto the 2nd page!
Stu - is this the biggest interest you have had on a wavepool article? just read through the "Kelly's left" and it doesn't seem to have had as much comments against (as a % of comments) ? Is that because its Kelly? or because its in the US (not in our backyards?) or is it because its proven? or is it because its an Aussie doing this one? Interested to know your thoughts?
Hey Sanded,
I haven't checked, but it may be the most comments for a wavepool article, definitely not the most comments for any article - in years past we've had 3, 4, and 5 pages of comments.
The balance of opinion? It's likely a few matters, some of which you've touched on in your post but also the fact that Kelly's pool and the related imagery has been hugely choreographed. Part of it is the appearance that it hasn't been staged, but from the very first clip in Dec 2015 he's employed a production and PR company to establish a roll out strategy. No doubt part of that will be how to make positive influnce via imagery, narrative, guest surfers, the whole PR box and dice...and I reckon it's working.
A big part of it could be the fact that Greg Webber is personally responding to most comments, which has really set off the keyboard warriors into a frenzy.
Once the GW wavepool is up & running, those that only want to continue with their ocean going surfing experience can, those that only want the wavepool experience can and those that want both experiences also can. Sorry for stating the bleeding obvious above but the sentiment in a number posts so far almost implies that the ocean going surfing experience will be taken away once the wavepool is open for business. Surely it's simply just going to become another surfing alternative experience. Nothing more nothing less.
Yes! Spot on Rabbits... Surely. Simply. Crystal clear!!
".....the bleeding obvious?" Well not really. If you don't understand how this is likely to influence those who choose not to use it, I suggest you go back and read some of the comments. If you still feel inclined to dismiss them and stick to your own narrow view that's fine. Just don't expect to influence other people's opinions with such a simplistic argument.
Not dismissing anything or anyone BB. You & others are doing a hell of a lot of speculating in regards to your apposition to the concept without much substance so far & I'll admit, my viewpoint is also speculative. You're a data man BB. Show me the data! You might be proven to be right, the sky may well fall in for the "non-users " once the GW wavepool fires up & the surfing experience will be forever lost & changed for the worst. Just can't see it myself.
Blind boy is ... well ... blind ...
Show me the data lol ;)
Rabbits it is not a matter of the sky falling in. I don't expect that this pool will have much impact on its own but if it is profitable then there will be more. Lots more and that will certainly impact crowds. Perhaps more importantly it will influence perceptions. Surfing is what we have made it. Over the decades the perception has changed dramatically from an outsider activity for young men only, to a bland, everyone's welcome, mainstream recreation. The most powerful constant in that time has been its basis in the natural world and with that the inherent unpredictability that, to me, seems absolutely integral. To move it into a pool changes everything. Consider the WSL, who is going to risk a contest in the ocean when they can have "perfection" in a pool? I suppose a lot of people do not think this kind of thing is important, that it is some sort of intellectual game that does not connect to the real world. Sorry, it is the real world. How would you feel about the World "Surfing" Chamionship being decided in a pool? For me it would be theatre of the absurd.
You mean the WSL is not already the 'theatre of the absurd'?
Farce would be a bit cruel, but they are definitely headed in that direction.
The only unpredictable thing here is the wavepool itself... Greg's pool hasn't even been built yet! Blindboy the only thing important to you seems to be the 'perception' of it all... Your perception;) The 'natural' world, the real world blah blah... Give it a rest mate, the true theatre of the absurd is coming from you;) If the wavepool was up and running we'd possibly see a greater show than what trestles will offer going from the forecast! Try not be so afraid of change - what you 'expect' and what you perceive are a long way from the real world. Open your eyes;);)
Shit of course, those billions corporations spend each year to boost perceptions of their products are just a waste of time. Everyone knows, just ask the flatter, he'll give you the drum.
BB I know how you love to put words in people mouths in these threads that happen to have a different view than yours, but just so we're clear, I'm not trying to influence anyone either way in regard to this Wavepool issue. Just offering my opinion. However if you on the other hand are trying to influence people in regard to your viewpoints & predictions, can I suggest you start backing it up with some hard evidence, because It's all sounding really selfish at moment.
"Surfing is what we made it" - Why has surfing become so popular & lead to increasing line ups? Many reasons, but essentially it's because it's such an awesome thing to do on so many levels. Preaching to the converted I know. This surfing experience isn't "yours" to give out or deny, however it is one that needs to be shared according to the unwritten rules.
If a WSL champ is decided in a pool I couldn't care less. Competition surfing has never appealed to me from a participant point of view. I enjoy watching the WSL comps in good waves. I have no doubt that unless a wavepool can produce waves of consequence any WSL comp held in a wavepool will very quickly become extremely boring to me.
The idea of taking surfing from the ocean & placing it in a pool as an alternative just doesn't worry me like it worrys you & others. Surfing in the ocean will always be the ultimate surfing experience for me for all the reasons Batfink stated. I just don't see wavepools completely destroying the ocean going experience. If they do, I will be devastated. Each to there own as always.
That'll be a short conversation!! Boom-tish!!
There might even be a reduction in crowds in some ocean line-ups as a result of GW's wavepool. However I think it will largely depend on the pricing point being sustainable for the surfers I'm referring to. I reckon the guaranteed surfing experience that the wavepool will offer, combined with the convenience factor, will appeal to a percentage of current ocean going surfers, so much so that they may give up the "real thing" altogether or at least reduce there number of ocean going surfs.
Ofcourse, this will have to be weighed up against the opposite views that the wavepool will DEFINITELY produce more ocean going surfers.
Still haven't seen anyone commenting, or committing to the price point required to be a wave pool consumer.
$300/mth. $3600/yr.
If it's just you that's steep but not out of control, though it depends on your discretionary income.
But if you've got a family who surfs, it becomes a pretty big ticket item.
$500/mth for a family? Maybe more?
And these things are going to require lots of bodies through the door daily, weekly, monthly, yearly .......they aren't cheap to run and they aren't a charity.
Tourists: been there done that got the T-shirt types are not going to cut the mustard for long term profitability.
So who amongst the fans is ready to go home to the missus and say "I need 300/mth from the family budget to go surfing in a wavepool?"
Or, back to the husband, partner whatever.......
No selfishness or bitterness btw, just had an absolutely magical session shared with one other person, a kiwi travelling through. Trading waves, smiles. Good vibes.
You are not going to use it so why would you care?
So, is that a yes or no?
I'm intensely fascinated by this phenomena. I think it's a fair question to ask.
Maybe you just can't afford it freeride?! And you had such a magical session you are back here whining again! Stop pretending... The only fascination you have is an inability to accept that other people can do as they please. You seem a little overly concerned with things and now you've gone this far you can't help yourself;) Save it for the debate you so passionately want with Greg, it's gonna be worth it... Be careful what you wish for;)
Yes.
Fair enough.
In the final analysis, once we clear away all the psycho-babble and techno-utopianism, this is a commercial transaction and it is going to come down to who is ready to pay to play.
This is going to put surfing in bed with some ......how would you put it? dodgy dudes. Developers, crooked politicians etc etc.
Looking at the recent history as a guide to the near future we saw Slater ink an MOU with Peter Drake for a major development. Drake is one of the dodgiest and slipperiest dudes god ever set breath into. A real shark. A proper money man.
And these money men will want money back in return. The drive to maximise profit and extract maximum income from wavepool consumers will be intense. Every single part of that "experience" will be aimed at getting hold of the credit card and charging a rental fee for use. There'll be no hanging around in the pool enjoying the scenery in between sets. It'll be wham bam, thank-you mam, now get the fcuk out and hit the shops.
And that will present a conundrum too.
The typical/historic narrative of surfers enjoying/embracing nature will need to be either co-opted or ignored as a direct threat to the hyper-commodification required to extract maximum revenue per customer visit.
But they will need to tread somewhat carefully because if the experience feels too commercial they will alienate customers who might realise that the benefits of surfing in the ocean are more than the sum of the parts, especially more than that tiny little bit which is actually riding waves.
I watch with great interest.
Im sure you will, like I said if they fail (I hope they don't) they will get redeveloped.
Hell I hope it gets me in the water more. Flat days won't suck like they do now and everyone except freeride will be happy.
Btw footage of your convo with Greg would be appreciated ;)
Well said freeride, I think you summarized it pretty closely to how it might all go down. Will surfing 'without nature' and the without the 'freedom you feel' in the ocean be as appealing as the real thing, or will a Surf Park just seem like a carnival ride. I guess we might find out in the next year or two.
Yeh, let's move this whole show up market. The cashed up, the independently wealthy. Jesus why should I have to compete with these working class trogs for a wave. I'll just sign up for Perrier Water World!
Since 1925 Bobo & freindly Gold Coast Pet Porpoises have long petitioned for a wave pool.
1970's dolphins escaped to surf Broadwater bow waves..remainder ridden as surfboards.
Recent spate of dolphin drop-ins was in retaliation to news of Lucy's mobile K9 Wavepool.
[WAVEPOOLS 4 PET PORPOISES]
I dream of National Parks weeding out Surf Reserves. SurfJustSurf
For me ,as I've said before ,the biggest concern is that the product gets licensed out to unscrupulous operators who won't really give a damn about the surfing experience itself, and are just interested in raking the hell out of tourists. Mackay councilor Ross Gee has a vision too. A fairly recent article states "As for domestic tourists the top 5 leisure activities are swimming and surfing, fishing and boating, bush activities and visiting national parks. It was after seeing that information that Cr Gee came up with the idea that Mackay needed a wave pool to draw the 244,000 International tourists that visit Airlie Beach each year to Mackay were only 44,000 currently visit...." https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/24m-mackay-wave-pool-project-the-bi...
I , like a few others , aren't taking a shot at Greg personally , and you have to give the man credit for actually responding to so much criticism himself. But being a little cynical or skeptical doesn't make all the critics haters, some have questions, whilst others with more negative opinions should be free to voice their concerns also.
hey jelly.. did i heard you gesticulating up high on the altar recently? or was it a a self-help book signing? maybe a motivational conference tour ? can't pick it.. something very familiar about it.. anyways you have talent sir.. geez i hope its not wasted... the flock awaits...
Wow bonza. You attended them all ! And now you are able to speak from direct experience;) Who would've thought that jumper you are wearing is 100% wool... Nothing quite like positivity for peanuts;)
praise be.
Apologies Greg if this has been covered previously in this thread as I skipped over most of the discussion when Freerider got all grumpy.
But will the pool be aligned in a way to take advantage of prevailing winds (summer breeze/winter offshores) in the locations they are planned?
Interesting point on the wind factor.
With the looped layout of the pool any breeze & one side will be much worse off than the other. A lot of the sales pitch is about groomed perfection on tap. Everyone knows the best breaks in the world are all reliant on the wind cooperating. Unless onshore conditions are your thing?
Hi all,
I joined just to comment. I was really really really excited for this and a massive supporter. But $300/ month? I can't believe that's even a consideration, not even half that.
Good luck and all the best
It's not an onshore , it's an air wind.
And for a couple of years there the surf media would have had you believe that you're better off rocking up to North point or Yo Yos to find seaspray stinging your eyes as you checked it from the beach.
Wavepool s - we all know theyd be fun to ride , at least short term. But what'll they be really like .....
Don't forget the optional family fun pak .
Yo AndyM .. fair enough re possibly more surfers in the line-up, but we just don't know. Part of me thinks (hopes), as per others, wave pools will appeal to a different demographic, although there'll obviously be a bit of bleedout to the ocean too. But ocean crowds are likely to increase irrespective of pools, simply through increasing population, and probably, more leisure time and disposable income for leisurely types! Damn. And yes, paying for a surf at a popular city beach or point within a national park.. possibly gonna happen too. But that wont be because of wavepools.
On a different note this wavepool thing reminds me of when the first proper skateparks started popping up. They were only a very few at first, they were seen as expensive to build. Different funding model, but many Councils declined to fund them because they thought it'd be a passing fad, why build 'em when you can ride the streets or local drain. But of course now they're literally everywhere including remote and regional towns, and that's cool. I actually predict that as the technology improves for wavepools - including reductions in the environmental cost of running them - they will be everywhere too. Like literally, everywhere. Small ones, big ones, in surfing and non-surfing nations. They'll be a lot more cost effective and make better use of available land than e.g. golf courses, and ski resorts which will suffer horribly through global warming. I's also most likely that that many will be built in public/private partnerships.
Anyway the point is.. there WILL be lots of 'em, eventually. So that's just the way it is. No point standing in front of the proverbial bulldozers on this one. Wont affect ocean types toooo much.. we'll just go surfing as we do now, and when we're in the water the spirit of surfing will still be with us. If we seek uncrowded surf, maybe need to be a bit more adaptive or creative, as we've had to be over the last few decades anyway. Lots of coastline in oz. And still lots of uncrowded places even within proximity of major centres, provided you're prepared to go for a bit of a drive or hike.
Greebs for pres ;)
Wondering if there is an opportunity for cost reduction via harnessing expended energy or water movement before or once the wave has broken, the energy used to create the wave could be partially re-harvested via turbine system or similar to reduce energy consumption dependant on the wave creating mechanism.....nice thought
Hope so..cos a $1 per wave electricity cost ..1400 waves per hour for a 10 hr day x 50 weeks per
year = ?
I cant wait for a go but more importantly, when is the big debate going to take place? Stu, can you live stream it here as I reckon there will be a few crew tuning in?!
"Wont affect ocean types toooo much.. we'll just go surfing as we do now, and when we're in the water the spirit of surfing will still be with us."
Fuck greebs, full credit - that's the second funniest thing I've heard all day.
I'm afraid it still comes in second to me taking the piss out of myself about my excellent Tupperware collection.
Love your optimism though -
"more leisure time and disposable income for leisurely types"
greebs have you been outside recently, you know, talked to people in the outside world??
And comparing wavepools to skate parks is an absolute cracker as well, I don't know where to start - difference in cost of land, tenure of land, cost of construction, number of people needed to justify building it...
@Greg Webber
"Sorry andyM but your totally wrong. The more people on earth who ride a wave the more people will have their values shifted purely by the act of riding a wave. It's the least materialistic desire other than sex."
Greg I'm not joking when I say I actually think you're quite a funny guy, you must be a scream to have a few beers with.
Full credit to you for coming on this site and shooting the shit, trolling like a demon and having a laugh.
Gold Coast was long famous for fountains and gardens. Glitter Strip once lined with bejeweled colour changing dancing waters.Cascade Gardens,Roman Baths,Arched,Bridged,Plunge Falls,Figures of Seals,Merlina the Golden Mermaid and classic nudes & more much more..
Big drought of early 2000's and our Council turned last of them off... most were worth 10's of $millions in today's money. Soon becoming eyesore rubbish pits too rancid for skaterz.
Gold Coast Beachgoers recall the 'no to slow drip feed' Beach Showers of the day.
Soon after Gold Coast drought proofed SE/QLD with Desal plant. That's the promo!
Meaning any Saltwater wavepool built here ironically draws saltwater from ocean and then desalted piped across cities to fill wavepool with re-salted water to mimic ocean.
I agree with fellow Swellnetonians that first rate enviro measures may save the day.
Chlorine bleached cancer stick chem trails paint wavepool Skegz as needy disco divas.
Nothing short of Ocean fed,WavePowered,Sand Filtered,Seaweed softened,Pet Porpoise ride share,Fishschool surfschool & Blue bottle security.
I know that Wet & Wild Wave Pool shuts annually for month plus long winter clean.
Re: Dreamworld's Wildest wavepool "Thunder River Rapids" now resembles a skate park.
Again my condolences to families.
GCCC .... just drained our wallets and entire SaltWater lake for Sharon the Stone fish.
Fountains once more adorn shopping Centres but no longer gracing parks or town centres.
GCCC does however boast the most skate parks in Oz.
In the sunshine state where the fun times await...
Who knew Greg Webber was such a tough guy. If you have an opinion that differs from his he wants to meet you and try and intimidate you. Wave pools are commercialisation of surfing and that sucks whoever it is - famous shaper or famous comp surfer
I assume Billyw you've always made your own boards, boardies, sunscreen, wax, own wetties, never bought a tracks, sw, asl or any other surfmag or video etc etc in your life or been on surf trips to anywhere you have seen in an advert???
Everyone on this forum ranting about the "commercialisation of surfing" needs to have a damn hard look at themselves and their righteousness in this regard.
Fuck me society in general is one big sell out. We are all guilty of commercialisation. We support it when ever we buy things instead of growing or making them ourselves and it supports us in the way of jobs. FFS everyone just enjoy the stoke, skill, physicality and the art of riding a wave and get over the politics.
And Greg Webber sign me up!! Working at one of these pools would shit all over my current job!
Yes yes yes!
No idea do you. In the main, those items are accessories used in surfing. Creating an artificial wave and charging people to surf it is so far different but no worries, continue ya rant and completely miss the point
Well, who knows Billyw. This is an interpretation and alot feed on it.
Just met my opposite on the keyboard after a few years of jousting, elsewhere. Might bode well with understanding and perception. It would be fair to say that I was on the naysayers or realist side in this instance. I now accept why the person elecuted as such ( and visa versa) and will probably bode well for all who browse that thread.
I think Greg does well to come into this environment, and hack it out with the likes of you, naysayers. Been through the thread and understand further the fuktards i share the water with. Yin n yang.
Hell, id lob up with $40 for six, six foot slabs and a leash on the fuktards.
What Greg has here, if it is as good as it looks (seen some of the best wake shacks whilst fishing on a flat day), will certainly remove alot of anxst from society.
All the best GW, set and maintain a high standard of operation.
huh? naysayer? about what? because I don't agree with the idea of selling an artificial wave I am a naysayer. Yeah good on him, never mentioned anything to the contrary, but I hate the idea of wave pools, but because everyone fawns over GW it is wrong to have an opposite opinion?
To claim someone can't have an apposing opinion on a commercial venture because they bought stuff made by someone else is coming close to the funniest post yet.
Keep them coming.
Fleazool, I wasn't saying people cant have an opinion. just saying people should make sure they're squeaky clean before calling others dirty.
Fair difference between your typical consumer and building an energy hungry machine to make something that is freely available in nature. On the dirty scale that is.
Probably several other scales or units of measurement come to think of it.
I reckon that gives most the right to comment freely on it's merits.
Fleabag don't try and move the goalposts... ishred has the right to comment freely in response to the debby downers such as yourself too! Billyw made an unsubstantiated claim about Greg being intimidating - this is far from the truth... Greg has only encouraged people to debate the subject to his face in order to move past the uninformed mentalities driven by negative personal agendas;) These seem to flourish amongst keyboard warriors such as yourself. Firstly you accused ishred of trying not to allow others to have a differing opinion when that was not the case... You may have misinterpreted the original response (which was clear as day and matter of fact). Now you have introduced your own amazing scale of units of measurements regarding 'typical' consumers and so called energy hungry machines! The world's biggest energy saving bib won't be able to catch your dribble;) But keep it coming! It's on a scale beyond your supposed ability to think;)
While I like the footy reference there's way too many winks in the rest of your post for my liking. I don't have an agenda, just questions on the affect this might have.
You seem pretty invested though ;)
unsubstantiated claim? I read the posts where he demanded to meet with someone making a comment as he stated they were too scared to say it to his face. reasonable attempt to intimidate I would say. totally unnecessary and so typical of the elite surf crowd who are always right and no one else is allowed a say on their precious little world. if what you say is true, he wants people to comment but only if they can meet him face to face? that is a truly bizarre position for a businessman to take, and make no bones, this is about making money, it's not about sharing the stoke of riding a wave, no one here can seriously believe that?
It must be interesting being an authority on what other people are supposedly doing;) It's about making waves... Artificial or not is irrelevant. The reality is it will cost money to make and will have to make money to be a success - the making money bit is a by product... How can you be so sure of the motivations?! Assumptions. Speculation. You are certainly entitled to an opinion, maybe pull back on what you hate about an 'idea'. To disagree is perfectly ok but really you may be drawing some long bows with the personal interepretation of the supposed elite of surfing... Big difference with the perception of this and the fact that people who can surf well (or not) will probably have a blast on these waves, and this will provide stoke no doubt. Greg has firstly been a master shaper and contributed immensely to board making and to the surf industry, a pioneer in his field. This is something the average punter doesn't understand and maybe never will... It is for this reason that now his contribution to wavepools and his vision may hold some cred. The truly bizarre thing is hating an idea of something;) Are you having fun yet! See if you can generate stoke hating on an 'idea' of something... Really, think about it and attempt to not miss the point - which is the very thing you are accusing others of. Enjoy your hate though ;)
he jell , just wondered what you consider were Greg's greatest contribution to boardmaking/ surf industry /and pioneering??
Maybe it started with Shane Herring's board in '92... pioneered a new design, albeit not functional to all or in all conditions - yet something that the surfing world of the time certainly took notice of. From what I understand Greg also had influence on Taj's early career, collaborations with Dahlberg, Insight boards... That's a fair contribution right there. It's more a case of evolving and trying new concepts. Breaking free of what is already known to continually question and try harness new and exciting ways of doing things whether it be what you ride or how you can ride waves... I guess it culminates with the trawler boat on the river stuff for me;) Maybe most recently is Kelly and Greg's banana board concept revisited - I mention this coz it must be a fair effort in creative genius to stay relevant after almost 3 decades involved in the industry. I had an old insight that I borrowed off a mate back in the day but I dont actually have a Webber board in my quiver... The fact that some very influential surfers and shapers have worked with Greg kind of states the level of influence the bloke has had... Maybe that comes into play when defining contribution and questioning pioneering;) Many can choose to diss the guy, that's ok, it's probably also worth considering that without such visionary minds then surfing itself may not be afforded the opportunities still to come... Wavepools fit into that category and if his design proves to be what is proposed then that is most likely an improvement on what is already on offer. So people can cheer up and enjoy what's on offer, they can grumble and whinge yeah sure - but I'm not sure why anyone needs to question or validate one man's effort to think outside the box in order to invent;) Surfing has and always will be about fun... The wavepool may be great fun, but what would I know... I'm just jelly flater ;)
And by all means, the detractors are free to list their achievements or expertise in whatever field and their contribution to sustainability... Just not sure it'll measure up;) The debate is interesting and the possible video debate will for sure be fun to watch.
In my reading of the comments no-one has attacked Greg or his other achievements. So the only interpretation I can put on your arguments is that they are an attempt to shut down debate.
Wrong blindboy... again;) I actually am encouraging the debate and merely questioning the merits of detractors. Go over the bit where I said everyone is entitled to an opinion and the debate is actually interesting! Plain to see unless you are blind of course... And I simply responded to a question above directed at me. Thanks for your interpretation, now try and read something free of your interpretation and there may be an opportunity to consider things clearly... You are free to crawl back under your rock now as I'm a little unsure of what you are adding to this other than your opinion of my opinion;) Missing the point much?! Was a nice try tho;) Blind as... blind is.
......and for what reason, other than your spectacular arrogance, is my opinion of your opinion not relevant to the discussion?
Um... This thread is not about Jelly's wavepool;);) And there were some great waves on offer today in our natural wavepool... Didn't you get your fill?! In case you weren't aware this is not about me. Thank you for being so fascinated with my comments... Maybe scroll back to page one, soak up the stuff on the human condition;);) There is more as well, unfortunately I've elaborated a few times... Your stuff is getting old mate, if you don't understand things for what they are it's ok;) It's just a lack of understanding on your behalf... Cheer up cupcake, a muppet could present a better argument than your dribble. Stay on topic and maybe consider the great comment below put forward by pfunk ;)
Not fascinated jelly, not even appalled. In fact so indifferent I will, with no effort at all, cease to acknowledge your existence.
Good stuff. Indifference will raise your awareness to whole new level! I was after no acknowledgement in the first place so thank you;)
interesting maybe ! Yeah the banana bds helped hero , for 1 contest , and then the wheels fell off the design , went too far ,was and is a media hyped story to the point where when the design was revisited 30 years later , its still didn't work , but they look insane , just don't really work Greg did say that the design even today was too advanced for Kelly , could be true?
He was a partner in Insight , and looks like he has some drawings of a pool concept , but from what I have read here not much substance , but we will see in 3 weeks when the works start.
greg like the artist he is , thinks outside the box , but not really in a technical way that is understandable in a business sense , and I think when you get a lot of the negative opinions about Greg , it's not personal , but just doubt on his vision and also the fact that so far not much action.
Would loved to be proved wrong , but when you see Kelly's pool , and the improvements he is currently making to his pool , it's real , and Greg seems to continuously bag kellys pool and wave garden , as his is better ah to be continued!
We will see Sharkman.
Yeah Jelly has got the job of Psycho-Babbler in Chief all sown up.
Just kidding Jelly, just kidding.
That's ok freeride;) If you kidded more often it'd certainly stop a bit of the free dribble on offer! Perception vs reality;)
I don't think freeride has ever not taken himself totally seriously. So that's usually a prerequisite for not being able to see anyone else's perspective. It sickens them to be proven wrong. They'll deflect and deflect and alter the values that were underlying the discussion to appear to be right.
totally off topic but perhaps on topic. Ben, can we get a page select button at the top of the page. If I'm on my computer its sweet, but my thumb gets a work out on the old iPhone :)
A lot of angry old men on here getting annoyed that this doesnt align with their 'vision' of what surfing is, or should be forever.
To say this will have a tangible impact on numbers in the water compared to natural population growth is laughable and tin foil hat stuff.
When its one foot and blowing 20kts onshore, by all means paddle out and show me and everybody else who doesn't care how you're keeping the 'soul' of surfing alive. I'll be having a crack at Gregs pool and probably cracking a few beers as well.
Haha! Brilliant :-)
Ha! Love it.
I'm pretty sure that some of these parks, whoever builds them, may not align with the vision of most of of the 'actual' surfers who choose to go.
Once they sell the technology then its out of their hands and the park owners can do what they please commercially.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Greg intends to brand the end product /experience himself.
Initially of course I'll not and cannot demand things being done as I might like but if it is the best technology then down the track, we will certainly be creating developments that my worst detractors will love.
All this debate about commerciallism ruining surfing strikes a chord with me too..
My heckles went up years ago when cunts took over surf spots and made them exclusive, user pays . How could they , the ocean isnt owned by any one.
But they did and got away with it. Now its the new normal. I still have never and will never surf Gland or restaurants.
But having said that, how many times in my life have i been stuck somewhere with no surf cos of work or whatever and ended up trying to surf some weird shit of a wave just to get tne feel of a few runners , anything.
I once was stuck in Melbourne with no way out . Had a big storm and a local creek was raging so bad it had a standing wave ,coupla feet.
Tried to surf it, didn't end well.
Stuck in perth with no way to leave for months once.
Paddled out at triggs , twice. Fhuck i can be an idiot.
Point im trying to make is we all have ago at novelty waves , some are great. Like my first go at surfing aged 7 in a harbour riding a scaffold plank id found washed up , riding the wake waves from passing cargoe ships.(sound familiar greg)
Either way waves is waves.
If some cunt wants to dig a hole and drive a trawler round in circles to make some novelty waves , good on him. Hes not stopping me or any one else from surfing real waves, and shit, i still got that old scaff plank under the old mans house . And if he does ,good on him for making a buck. No one here would hassel him for building a cable ski lake and charging cash.
Would it be funny if after all the hype the wave park was as shitty as triggs?
Would it be funnier if freeride did do a story , grist for the mill as he put it, and actually loved it?
Either way if the wave you make is as good as slaters id consider it , especially if you can make it bigger than his 3 footers.
Good luck greg.
Thanks veges, I appreciate it. But the key complainants are recognising that they don't have to ride it but are actually resenting waves being recreated at all, as through the wave itself should never be made by man at all. In a way I almost agree. But I'm sure the first time a religious leader saw a photo realistic painting or sculpture of a nude they were confronted by it on one hand but when nobody was about they would have been mesmerised. Man has always created his own versions of nature, with or without distortions, whether it's a human form or a landscape or a wave, they always endure.
Wait till you see Kelly's new wave , 40 sec long , overhead outside carve section , then barrel , come out of barrel , then turns , then the inside barrel section again....seen some footage from this week , fucking mind blowing!!
hey stu I'm driving back down to yamba tomorrow so can you email freeride's email address? I'll hopefully link up with him for our little get together. I'll message you anyway.
Wheres that footage
It's all private at the moment , as the contest they are going to have there after the Lowers comp will highlight the new wave, but any claims Greg has made about how much better his will be , ah game over , this pool is next level !
You surf right sharkman? Have you ridden tubes that go below sea level? If so then what would you prefer a tube that doesn't drain off? Kelly's wave and wave garden both break into dead still water, stop looking at the tube or the surfer and look at the face of the wave at the base.
yeah I surf , even had a few barrels in my life , as I said previously ,I think when you see Kelly's new wave , where you can do turns , get tubed and ride for 40 sec , even you might be a bit less critical of Kelly's pool , as I think a repetitious tube would be boring , you need to be able to do carves and tube ride on the same wave , we will know by this time next week , as he has his Comp on there ....
You must be excited tough with the countdown for works on your pool starting in 2 weeks?
That's good that you get the wave shape differences...and now that we have seen Kelly's wave with some variations due to gradient, we can see that this whole industry is going to explode no matter what. I messaged him today to say well done mate, he's broken down the barriers to the viability of events no question ...Kelly and I have talked at length before about waves, not just boards, and he knows that it's quite possible that I might make an even better wave. If that happens then I'll still be very happy to work with him. I like him as a person, he's a master and a futurist.
Build heaps of them and hurry up.
Gazza there will be hundreds of them. And reefs. I'm on the goldy now and at last they're dredging sand to make banks. More to come when associated industires gain as a consequence and surfers win. Thanks mate
Ok! Will do
I guess there will be evolution in other ways too. The good 'ole "locals only" graffiti will need to be upgraded. It won't be long before "ocean surfers only" starts appearing at beaches everywhere.
As to freeride76's question about paying $300pm for a membership to the 'wave pool', IMHO, if it was 'unlimited waves' 365 days a year, yep, probably great value. But. Just like the 'golf course' equivalent, there will be special event days (i.e. outside competitions, corporate days, etc.) which reduces the available days for the member. Plus, there will be usual 'peak times', just like a golf course, where it is difficult to get to use the facility (i.e. Saturday morning 'comp'). Which, then begs the question, will the wave pool on a Saturday end up like the golf comp where you have to put your name down in advance to 'book' you tee-off slot? Or, will it be a line up and wait scenario in these peak times, like the other "theme parks"
So, for my coin, it would really depend on how much access you get for your $300pm.
And, on the flip side, with no membership but a 'pay per wave' model at say $10 per wave that's been touted in the comments here, have any of you considered how quickly you'll burn up $100? I feel I wouldn't be satisfied with say a 2 or 3 wave 'session', and so would probably want at least a dozen waves, so there goes $120. Don't know about a lot of you, but my family budget couldn't support me doing that every week, let alone twice a week.
I think the novelty will wear off quickly if those are the prices. I can see this becoming more of a holiday or once or twice a year type "outing". A bit like going go kart racing with ya mates or family - you're not doing it every week, but a few key occasions and maybe a few times a year if you're really keen.
Again like so many other commentators you'll have to experience a deep inside, near the foam-ball, 2m perfect barrel for 5 or even 10 seconds, before you could really say what you'd be happy to pay and how often. So as nice as it is for you all to make your statements I'd suggest recording how many 5 second tubes you get a year and if that's pretty rare (which it is for the average surfer ) then you'd probably all remember the last one you had, and in fact you'd probably remember it for many years to come, yet people are complaining about $7 or $10? That's two to three flat whites or one of the most memorable tubes of your life. Seriously guys use your imaginations just a little bit.
But the whole point is, it's in a pool. It's a manufactured tube, not a real one...
It's fake surfing
Bit like surfing bingin, couple of days and it's over, novelty wears off
Mate you're being a dill. Do you sense any distinction whatsoever between getting an incredible barrel at a city beach with not a scrap of nature in sight verses a similar barrrel at a point break in the country? Of all things, being inside the tube or doing some of the best turns of your life are completely independent of location. You're just trying to suggest that you're a purist to get some credit points socially. Sorry mate I'm beinga bit hard on you I know but this rationale is shallow.
I can see it coming. After a long run of one foot onshore slop all the “real surfers” start heading for the wave pool. But wait, its Members Only. Fully booked. No place in the line-up for you sport. Ironic?
And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, any SUPs in the wave pool?
It's not going to be run that way.
Gees mate more pools will get built if the demand can't be fulfilled. Couldn't you work that out? If someone can make money out of supplying a great product or experience and it's dramatically under supplied then more of that thing will get made.
Don't be so touchy Greg, I'm all for it. Just having a dig at some of your detractors.
I surfed the WaveGarden pool recently and as a surfer for over 20 years it was fun.
The wave quality was poor but the experience was overall positive. I would go again.
The fact you have a wave popping up for you aproximately every 6 mins with no hassling and being in the right spot every time was cool.
Eventhough the wave was fat and got even fatter in sections I still wanted to keep surfing it. I am a spoilt surfer living on the East Coast where the waves are of the highest quality. Maybe because of the mechanical consistency of what you were going to ride I was always imagining what I could do on the next one, timing the first turn to set up the rest of the wave, where to bottom turn etc.
After 10 waves I felt like I had another 30 in me easy, for an ageing surfer that has to work, family and all that shit that prevents me from being as fit as I would like this factor is unique.
I paid aprox $90 for about 10 waves, it was fully booked a month in advance. I was spewing ther was no availabilty for another hour.
Sounds fun and well explained
Just one question for Greg:
What will you personally feel if surfer numbers in the ocean massively increase as a direct result of your wave pools?
To qualify the hypothetical: your wave pools are quantum leaps ahead of your competitors; your pools are massively successful and franchised all over the world; surfers who have no access to ocean waves learn in your pools and then travel the world surfing ocean waves; everything you want from these pools becomes a reality....and surfing numbers in the ocean expand at a rate unparalleled in history.
How would that make you feel?
Tylerdurden, I wouldn't be happy in any way shape or form, but I always knew that once the demand for waves became linked to existing historically stable industries like housing and retail, that there would be a proportional expansion of coastal wave making by artificial reefs or sand bank creation due to the usual market forces. If a high quality surfing location raises the value of a hotel or residential or retail development then wave pools and reefs and sand pumping will be linked to pre existing developments and new ones. If Crystal clear super sized swimming pools can double the value of a hotel then crystal clear pools with waves might even do more. In addition I recognised what the general criteria required for artificial reefs would be (low volume and low cost) in my head for about 25 years but no design that I came up with was perfect. Finally I managed to work it out about two years ago so I patented it. I'll be releasing the website soon.
So in summary as surfer numbers increase more reefs will be constructed to fulfill those new surfers. And for the surfing populations in other countries that don't have coastlines then when they do want to travel to surfing locations where there are consistent waves like Australia then we will have the massive coastline to fulfil them as well. Heaps of people surfing and jobs for those who work in those towns and tourist developments.
My guess is that there will be a slight over supply of waves as developers and tourist resorts compete for new residents or more tourists. Imagine the Gold Coast having 10 artificial reefs as good as the superbank.
So in other words Greg, you're happy to see and facilitate an exponential increase in crowds as long as you can make a dollar out of it.
Nope I've got lovely feelings about millions of people getting amped from surfing every day. I don't relate to money like most people do, but you don't know me at all so I can excuse you totally for thinking I'm driven by money.
To be frank Greg, you lost me a bit with that reply.
It kind of seems like you are hoping for a forestry type of solution i.e. for every tree you cut down you will plant two
Perhaps I'll approach it from another angle:
What is your desired ideal outcome from these wave pools?
Have you considered that your wave pools might result in an exponential increase in surfers, the likes of which we have not seen before?
What if you can't offset the increase in surfers with the construction of more surf able waves?
Will this sit comfortably with you?
If it does not sit comfortably with you then why do it?
Sometimes getting what we want aint all it's cracked up to be...the hidden (and not so hidden) catches are a whole lot worse than any benefits
"To be frank Greg, you lost me a bit with that reply".
I think that was part of the intention. The first half of Greg's reply had an ounce of truth to it but was mostly febrile nonsense.
Greg's been pretty good at responding to the various comments but I sort of had a hunch he wouldn't respond to mine....maybe Freeride will address them in his interview
Ok I get you still. I'm completely confident that I'll be able to, with the help of the usual factors inherent within capitalism, to create enough alternative wave making forms and mechanisms to keep supply a little above demand. But I can't say I've had this planned in all detail decades ago, I'm just going on a bit of instinct and checking with superior minds to mine that it makes sense. First premise is that surfing is amazing, second one is that there are nowhere near enough waves, third one is that if way more people surf then it's possible values might shift very broadly. Other than the birth of ones own children or some hefty achievements in life, and marriage to your soulmate, certain moments or experiences surfing will rate solidly in your memory as some of the greatest moments of your life..... so we should keep that from others? I just don't get that vibe at all.
I've been reading and registered just so I could post here. As someone stuck in Canberra for work the prospect of a wave pool somewhere in the city's future is very exciting. If it is Greg's, Kelly's or wavegarden I'm not that fussed - any wave would be good. And I can say here and now that to get what Greg said would be a '2m perfect barrel for 5 or even 10 seconds', well shit I'd pay through the nose for that! $7 sounds cheap to me as someone who has to drive at least 2 hours to get to a wave, and then because I don't get to surf much can very rarely last more than 2 hours in the line-up at a time - especially when it is big and there is a lot of water moving around.
I saw someone ask if $300 a month is feasible and it does sound high - but then I pay for a season pass at Thredbo or Perisher every year which sets you back between $700-$1000 depending on when it is purchased. Furthermore, I do a lot of backcountry skiiing out of the resorts to get away from the crowds, get fresh tracks and enjoy the peace and accomplishment of 'earning my turns'. However, I still enjoy the resort experience - especially on a powder day when the lifts let you get in heaps more laps and ski more vertical. I think this is a good comparison between the ocean and a wavepool - though with skiing most people only ski resorts while those of us that ski the backcountry (regulalry - especially in Australia) are the minority. In anycase, whatever the approach, it is still skiing and people are enjoying themselves no matter - I really don't know why some are so upset and think the values of surfing will somehow be diminished. Also why do you even care? If you don't like it just stay in the ocean. There are some backcountry skiers that don't enjoy the resort experience so they don't go - but they don't complain about it - it is just really strange to build up such a level of resentment (especially) for something that hasn't even become a reality and there is no way to quantify what the impact is actually going to be.
Well said.
Whens the Webber / Shearer Tea party ?
Forget about paying to surf in a wavepool, I'm happy to chip in to see this chat happen.
Hey AndyM, clearly your anti-wavepool but do you reckon even you might have a go one day? Not even out of curiosity?
Rabs, funnily enough I'm not particularly anti-wave pool in isolation, I can just see the intent of the whole show and how it could potentially affect crowds in the ocean.
If you want to surf waves in a pool I don't really care, I just think the long term picture is horrendous.
Would I have a crack?
a) I get so much more out of surfing than just riding the wave, I think being in what is basically a fun park or a theme park would give me the shits
b) at 6'3" and 100kg it'd have to be a more substantial wave than what I've seen so far to interest me
c) it'd have to be free!
Cheers Rabs
More than fair enough Andy. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. Cheers!
We almost got it lined up but neither of our work schedules allows it this time.
I see a lot of push and pull surrounding the wavepool movement and it makes me realise how important it is to focus on me and what I want, and not what 'should' or 'shouldn't' happen in the surfing world, because things 'will' happen.
As such, i think Webber's wavepool 'will' be a success because the more accurate a representation of a true ocean wave, the more superior the experience, particularly for professional level surfing & training/learning. To me the ultimate is a below sea-level tube so i'm looking forward to see man produce something more than an extra-long 2ft almond-shaped barrel which exists today at the KS wavepool.
But when I look deeper, that below sea-level drainer is an ideal ride because it is so rare to experience today. Recently i've taken a gopro out to record an entire surf-session at my favourite reef. What I noticed the most upon watching the footage a few times over is how much enjoyment i received from watching the imperfect waves ridden, and how they never seemed to hit the reef just right. I found that the beauty of surfing for me was in challenging myself to not only ride the gauntlet & take the risk, but also to hunt for and admire and appreciate a wave that does hit the reef perfectly and deliver the perfect ride for the day. By saturating myself in consistent perfect barrels that are identical, I wonder whether my experience would become akin to a filthy rich but morbidly unhappy person. The human condition of pursuing the unattainable is strong within me.
That is only one aspect of surfing. It is that I identify with this pursuit as my whole & sole purpose for continuing to surf. To many millions of punters, surfing may mean something completely different and i accept that wholeheartedly. I see Greg's intentions to solve the dilemma of overcrowded waves and the high unlikelihood that a beginner/woman will have a chance to experience the same ride as the local head honcho at the crowded point an act of love and for the betterment of his experience of what surfing is. I see Freeride's intention to save the soul of the sport and align it with surfing's parallel outcome of immersion in the chaos and beauty of nature, also as an act of love because preserving that experience for generations to come is his experience of what surfing means to him. There is definitely a clash happening between these two realities.
For me, I am open to both. Perhaps so I can experience the indulgence of mechanical perfection & a canvas for making subtle experimental improvements to how I ride the wave, and compare that to the experience of appreciating the beauty of imperfection, the spontaneity, to ride waves with no available exit (just a good walloping!), which compels me to relentlessly pursue that one perfect wave, always conveniently just out of my reach.
Well said but not one micron of wave pool surfing activity will detract from surfing in nature....for those who've learned prior to pools or post pools. Place adds a beautiful tint to the experiences we have, when we look back on it later, but in the actual moment, when it's something potentially spiritual like surfing, then the experience itself is deeper and even more pure than the place or environment it occurred in. Same goes for birth, who would dare tell two women that a birth in a cave with no help and dirt allover is more or less pure than a birth in a hospital with caring midwives, a sterile environment and backup technology should things go wrong? I think most of you 'purists' are just virtue signalling more than anything else.
Interesting take from my post Greg, I wasn't implying the actual 'loss' of a spiritual experience of surfing, I was questioning my own very personal human capacity to appreciate and be present and grateful for the gift when it is served to me over and over again in perfection. And at the same comparing that to what I think I really enjoy about surfing which is entirely my own experience.
I'm not saying that a wavepool wouldn't be fun to ride.
But I am saying that the the industry and beurocracy that straddles surfing is going to go through the roof and it's recognition within governments is going to increase accordingly.
If you believe that these parasites are going to be content with leaving their exploitive and corruptive grasp at the surfing theme parks then you are sadly mistaken.
You think the WSL , Surfing Australia , the rag traders and like minded bodies are over reaching a bit with their ownership of the coastline - albeit only in 2 week blocks so far - then you'll love the exclusive access for training camps , competition and general regulation in a few years.
We will see.
Who cares what it looks like if your getting 5 second tubes!! Fuck going to the Ments and battling it out with hordes of Euros and Brazzos sign me up for the pool
But the whole point is, it's in a pool.
It's a manufactured tube, doesn't matter if it's 5 seconds long or 50 seconds, it's not a real one...
It's fake surfing
Its not fake, its man made. A barrel is a barrel, the fact that it was made by a machine just doesn't matter..
And if you are in the tube, its not fake, ever.....
Be happy goofy to leave the pool with the predictable barrel to the privileged ones that can afford regular visits, they will grow soft in the arms and mind.
Where do you draw the line at 'manufactured' though? D'Bah, South Straddie, Kirra, the Superbank, etc are all 'man made waves' to some degree. Do they still count?
People whinged about the kook cord once..
OK, so this is now 2 weeks out from construction starting, right?
Article posted 22 August, so 4 weeks ago today, and we were told:
"The structural and mechanical enginnering is already under way," says Greg Webber, "while the civil work, the excavation of the lagoon, begins in six weeks."
And yet, no one has found the location.
I did notice webber signed an mou for sunshine coast a few years ago. Wonder if that is still in motion.
These things take time.
No longer assoc with the sunny coast mob
ok. Thanks.
Last thought was the artists impression or a council planning / development connection in here.
Anyways,
Might not even be on the goldy and digging is only days away
And remember Greg also said this was a unlined prototype.....
Greg are you still confident your wave will outclass the one in Lemoore? (Matching it will be a pass mark)
In somewhere like Perth with its urban sprawl pushing it away from the coast something like this as an expansion of the community pool could actualy create a place for kids to gather but pricing would have to make it affordable for them to use.
The one in Perth is proposed on such a prime site I wonder why there.
Rather than wave pools I am much more interested in ways that for low cost a wave can be created on what is a straight line beaches. They put in footy ovals, pools etc so if we can come up with something better than dumping rocks or a groyne so lateral drift is not impacted then for somewhere like Perth.
There is technology they use in the oil and gas industry to stop underground cables from having sand wash away
I though something ike a hair brush laid on the ocean floor with these sand catching tenticles could capture and hold the right amount of sand and then once full sand woud move on.
Nice organic approach design wise but not touching the sea bed is how to diminish resistance from environmental groups and at the same time drop the mass and the cost hugely. So it's alldown to semi submersible structures. And I've got one patent in and another design that's even cheaper you would love. Next year or so andnill release the designs. Waves are going to pop up everywhere
Yes it will. Imagine how much time I've put into actual wave making compared to all the others. The method we use is super available and theirs is not. So I've made and viewed thousands of waves with hundreds of gradients. For nearly 20 years. It will be hollower and vastly more adjustable with a much higher wave rate. Sounds better to me.
Thanks Greg. For the record, i reckon 9 out of 10 surfers are keen for this
Hi Greg,
I've signed up to your newsletter on the Wavepool Website with the hope that I would be kept up to date with the progress. I gather there are things happening in the background, though last time i drove past the job site I couldn't see any ground being broken and dirt being moved. Would love to hear where you are at in the rollout process.
Cheers,
Thanks for your reply above Greg but my key question was again not really addressed.
What is your intention with these pools and what do you consider to be the ideal desired outcome?
Perhaps this is where Blindboy, Freeride and myself have cause for concern...and which also should concern everyone who likes to surf in the ocean.
Is your desired best case scenario a mass proliferation of these pools around the world, with the consequence being that you become a multi-millionaire if not billionaire? With a secondary consequence of an exponential increase in surfer numbers being only a minor concern?
Or is it limiting the numbers of these pools, thereby limiting your income, in order to provide a gift to the surfing world, with strict control so as to do everything possible to minimise the increase in surfer numbers in the ocean.
I have a feeling that of those two options outlined above you are at end of the spectrum more aligned with the former.
After all, it's not the number of waves available nor the number of surfers present but the surfer to wave ratio that counts.
If you get what you want it may not have much direct impact on your own surfing experience but your kids and grand kids may never surf in an uncrowded ocean line up again...food for thought
the way I see it is for the WWP's to find a home wherever there is the market for one. If Greg has has had a lifelong passion and to see it become a reality then good luck to him for his tenacity in the face of hitting a wall and fighting over the top of it. The next step for Greg would then be to build "things" that sit in the ocean and catch swells and make them break. This would then fill the needs of the "many" more surfers in the world. If he makes $$$$ from following his dream, what is wrong with that???
Replies & comments welcome............
He's already answered this question earlier in the thread mate. He sees loads more surfers sprouting from these wavepools, then loads more pools to meet the numbers. I'm guessing he'd love to be a billionaire. What, are you going to look me in the eye and tell me you wouldn't? I get your problem with crowds mate 100%. Since I learnt to surf in the 80s, I've driven past plenty of good but busy spots to surf uncrowded places in national parks. Every time. Since the 80s. I just think that Greg is being unfairly targeted here. The market will dictate the outcome. You could blame Karl Benz for inventing the automobile, Martin Cooper for the mobile phone. I personally blame the population explosion on the population explosion. From crowded surf spots to global warming, almost every modern problem can be traced back to it. Crazy idea I know, but we put our money where our mouth is and only ever had one child. How many kids do you guys have? How many people in your lives have you told about the joys of surfing? Because your people are crowding my break and I've got a beef with you about that. I didn't say you could tell your son to surf at my spot. Haha
It's ridiculous hey, and of course you are not to blame. Surfing is an amazing experience, and yes, I agree, that diminishes with crowds. But my point is it is not any one individuals to blame for. It's getting popular because it's so bloody refreshing, envigourating, challenging & satisfying. It's moving in this direction because of loads of reasons, but mostly because of how awesome it is.
A couple of facts for ya:
You weren't the first ever surfer, but you want to stop other people from discovering it.
From this message on, you now know that Greg is hoping to fund a clean energy idea, from money made through the pools. So wanting them blocked is admitting that your personal wave count is more important than developing clean energy for the planet.
All you haters need to stop finger pointing and blaming, you look selfish.
What's an acceptable number of kids you'd be happy to let develop heart disease later in life, to protect your wave count?
I'm not telling Greg or anybody what to do, just asking him to ponder what he really wants from these pools and to consider the resultant consequences.
I presume he is in control of the technology and therefore can dictate how rapidly they proliferate around the world (if they do).
The main advantage of his pool that I can see is that the wave can be adjusted to cater for beginners through to experts.
If Greg is targeting non surfing areas for future pools (ie China, Europe and inland North America) then realistically it is possible to produce competent surfers from these pools without them ever having set foot in the ocean.
Imagine if, say, each pool could produce 5000-10000 competent surfers every 2 years. And, if successful there were 100 pools built around the world over the next 10 years. Greg would be very rich but would he really want this?
A lot of speculation of course but what I'm asking Greg to consider (and hopefully he's reading this) is to have a little bit of circumspection and truly consider the consequences of what he's trying to achieve
Shoredump you last few sentences had me in tears - won't somebody please think of the children...
Hahaha...
In all seriousness though. I hate the idea of crowded ocean breaks too, but to argue against it would be no different than being a white Australian and disapproving of all the immigration. You've got to be pretty tough to look at yourself honestly enough to admit that you are part of the problem and to accept it. Andy you are my crowd and I am yours.
We are the world, shoredump, we are the children...
Apart from the way you're grasping at straws such as supposedly not caring about children, and being racist, let's leave the comedy routine aside.
Are you really saying that I've got no right to be against a push by individuals who aim to work with governments and international committees such as the IOC to consciously increase the number of surfers by massive amounts, for financial gain, almost certainly at the expense of Joe Average surfer down at his/her local beach?
You can spin and obfuscate all you want, but that's the reality.
If you're interested, have a look at these character traits and see what they indicate.
Seriously, copy, paste and search.
- Deceitfulness, or conning others for personal profit
- Reckless disregard for others
- Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having mistreated another
Is this a quiz?
Is the answer Trump?
Or Malcolm (in the Aussie version)?
Hehehe, mate I think you're outclassing me on the comedy routine.
Yes that is what I'm saying. Despite what you believe, you don't own surfing, you can't decide how Greg turns a buck, and you have no say in how future generations choose to interact with nature. You want surfing all for yourself.
It's not a rise in surfer numbers that worries me, that has been happening since the beginning of surfing.
It's the exponential rise in surfing numbers that these pools potentially offer.
Comes down to the intent of Webber and Slater and their assessment of the consequences of a mass proliferation of these pools. Hopefully good sense takes prominence over greed....
There are two things occurring. One is this: wave pools are here. Second thing: some people think this will affect 'their' experience of surfing in the sense it may taint or take something away... When any individual feels threatened by what 'may be' there is a simple disconnection with what 'is'. ;);)
This ONLY applies to a person who actually struggles with their own ability to have fun and hence chooses to unconsciously decide that an exterior influence or activity will be the determining factor! From here a survival instinct kicks in to preserve or attempt to maintain something that is non-existent. Having trouble grasping it?! This non-existent thing... some like to call it happiness or contentment. And some try and rationalise their lack of something through their actual dependence upon a particular pursuit or 'thing' that may or may not even generate this supposed happiness or contentment. Yet sometimes we wish to put the emphasis on a thing to just try and understand what is 'meaningful' to us. This can take on extra importance if the connection is through nature;);)
For a lot of us this thing IS surfing! And fark yeh it's a wonderful thing. I imagine a lot of us here (for and against) have one clear and unifying constant in our lives... Surfing! In the ocean or in a pool - you are free to make a distinction - just be careful to have done the time in both before you sprout existential facts!!
From being a grom learning about the ocean... Spending sun soaked days each school hols - or every morning and arvo for us lucky buggers that grew up within walking distance of the beach... The hrs spent daydreaming of waves in school and then to escape to go surfing as soon as school was done (or just missing school coz the swell was on!) are cornerstones of Aussie youth. How farkn lucky we were and are;) And this carries on into most of our lives - look how many of us put in the hrs at work to then carefully plan and exact another surf mission after fulfilling duties and kid requirements etc. Each adventure gathering us more knowledge of the ocean, the tides, the winds, the equipment we ride and as a result our ability to gain an understanding that allows us to score good waves and experience pleasures beyond what words can even describe. The introduction to and experience of wide and varied cultures through travel... Most of us are better off because of surfing and nothing can take that away!
It is a tremendous gift. We are blessed to be surfers. All the times we get skunked are worth it because we are learning. If we aren't learning about the ocean or surfing itself, we are learning about ourselves and how we can adapt and adjust to adversity, and more importantly, how we can carry our stoke back on land. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, a few of us have developed a possession of surfing... The supposed joy has only fed the 'idea'. Surfing in it's purest form is just fun - yes hard work and injuries, sacrifices and expenses come into play... But we do it coz it's mad fun;)
So the only thing amongst all the pretend bravado, the perception of what's cool/what's not, what's right/wrong, who is selling out and who is being 'true' - the only thing we can't lose sight of is that surfing is fun (reminder that fun cannot be identified as something you can 'have'!) This fun, if it is true, can only be shared and will manifest as encouragement to others so they can hopefully experience this too... Coz if you're really having 'your' fun, you won't mind that someone else derives their fun through different means;);) Whether or not you dislike/like, agree/disagree is the irrelevant part unless you have a hankering for misery!
Pls read that last bit again...
So this is where wave pools have come into play. Not all wave pools have been a success or will be. The fact is what is on offer now is pretty impressive so what's ahead could possibly be amazing - cudos to Kelly and good luck to Greg! All the people lucky enough to surf Kelly's pool look like they're having a fuckload of fun. SIMPLE! So let them have their fun... What the fark else is goin on out lemoore way;);)
The resentment comes from the reality of only those who aren't actually having fun with their surfing. The ASP or WSL or local board comps or big surfing companies or whoever never have and never will get in the way of me scoring a few empty pits or nice whips off da top! No extra people in the water ever gets in the way of anyone finding the means to seek out new places... They may get in the way of what 'was' for you, or what 'may be' ;);) But that bit is up to you!
If surfing is a distraction to deflect what's really going on for you, well, you may be in real trouble... Maybe memories of uncrowded waves, empty line ups and so on are just that - just memories. Just ideas... Your beliefs, perceptions, assumptions. Just that! Try let them go.
Pretty sure the smiles on the faces of Steph, Kelly, Felipe, Gerry... whoever... They are REAL smiles. They are real coz they are removed from what 'may be'. We as surfers have a lot to learn... A hell of a lot;) So cheer up detractor muppets and get over yourselves - the people having fun are the people actually having fun!
Who would you rather be? ;)
Jelly Flater you are now my new guru! Well said!
Well said Jelly. You just took me back to a simple time in my life as a very young kid. The complete innocent joy of fist standing up on a board in the foam, the very first unbroken wave I caught, surfing with your mates after school without your parents "supervising".
Surfing was and IS pure joy!
perfect, just perfect - well said :))
Greg when I finally saw the railway track and train making the wave the industrial nature of it really hit.
Is your technology based on a simiar method or different as you talk about water drawing off the bottom.
Still think the artiffical reefs sound way more interesting in deaing with current crowding issues.
Something that catches enough sand to make a wave and then lets the rest keep moving.
'a push by individuals who aim to work with governments and international committees such as the IOC to consciously increase the number of surfers by massive amounts, for financial gain, almost certainly at the expense of Joe Average surfer down at his/her local beach?'
Shoredump, I'm glad you've admitted that this is the bigger picture of wavepools for surfing.
In case you were wondering, those personality traits that I was talking about earlier are part of the definition of a sociopath.
Sound familiar don't they.
Partial credit goes to Shatner's Bassoon.
..and when it gets really big, like snow boarding, bmx, skateboarding or big bash cricket, I still say the sky won't have fallen in. Relax man, everything is going to be ok. I'll even buy you a beer at the wavepool one Friday arvo if ya like
"Relax man, everything is going to be ok"
You sound really, really creepy.
Only because you have interpreted that way, same as how you view the wave pool.
Just wondering how Dan Mackenzie is going...remember him he started digging on his land west of Newcastle around July 2012 for a Webber Wave Pool prototype 150 metres long
He was actually that impressed he invested with the Company...along with Rabbit
Has he finished digging yet ?
Any updates?
R u still sure u can improve on kellys wave?
6 weeks up yet ?
Is this wave making machine going to make as much noise a Slaters Train does ?
Greg digging still on schedule mate ?
OK , the 6 weeks are up , has the digging begun?
How about an Update Greg
And are Crystal Lagoons the supplier installer of the pool liner ?
Swillnut club tag team... well, another one... again... and again and again...
Any news on this pool ?
"The structural and mechanical enginnering is already under way," says Greg Webber, "while the civil work, the excavation of the lagoon, begins in six weeks."
So yes UDO , according to GW , work should be underway , the Lagoon has been started a month ago .
GW is going to finish the pool, run the tests and then market them commercially , and that's why Kelly is so scared and just powering ahead before GW's pool embarrasses him!
Ok, Block of wax & bragging rights to the first person to locate and confirm the location in SE Queensland for the magical & mystical Webber Pool. Sooo looking forward to seeing what is will be like.
This was such a busy thread before, now its dead. Greg if your out there can you give a quick up date.
C,mon , for awhile there you were frothing on on tne dig starting and everything.
I am going to suggest that the pool will be somewhere in the LOGAN city area.
And the location of the first pool? Well, Webber is a little coy on specifics, he understands the cloak and dagger being played between operators, so all he'll reveal at this point is the region. "It's in South-east Queensland. It's out there, but not too far."
Anyone with contacts wither the LOGAN council?
Anyone want to spend time trying to find the DA on their website???
So, Greg Webber is still silent here too?
Hmmm.
Construction status?
Or.
Has it gone off the rails?
OK , so surf lakes is up and running and seems to have a few people with credibility spruiking it , so Greg where are you at with your pool?
6 weeks is now nearly 12 weeks , and not a sign of anything yet , Stu , have you been able to contact GW?
yes GW , a progress report would be nice. It's not like you've been a stranger to this forum when it has suited you , or your "investors".., how about giving the average punter a heads up on what's going on? Maintaining radio silence is not a confidence winner.
yup. news update please
You haven't moved to Majorca by any chance GW. ??
Digging is Underway !
By Surf lakes for there proto type on the Capricorn coast
Coffs Advocate
Wot u doin Webber ?
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/surf-sports/plans-for-gold-coa...
Sorry the link is paywalled.
THE man behind a global skateboard empire wants to build the first surfing wave pool on the Gold Coast.
A company co-founded by Penny Skateboards whiz Ben Mackay has met with Gold Coast City Council officers to build a high-performance wave pool at Stapylton’s McPherson Road.
Tunnel Vision Wave Pools Pty Ltd, created by Mr Mackay and Joshua Neale, of Kingscliff, in July, are expected to officially lodge plans by the end of the year.
The Gold Coast Bulletin has learned the company wants to install a wave pool using technology patented by surfboard shaper Greg Webber on 95 hectares of farmland on the Pacific Motorway.
A council source said documents would be lodged once final hydrological studies were completed.
“It’s not far off being submitted and it is a really exciting project,” the insider said.
“There’s a lot of interest in this one and it will be great to see it get up.”
Attempts were made to contact Mr Mackay for comment.
The bid would be expected to go through council planning between March and June and construction start within a year.
It is understood the wave pool, which could cost $10-30 million to build, will use technology patented by surfboard shaper Greg Webber.
Mr Webber has repeatedly said his technology was superior to 11-time world champion Kelly Slater’s Californian prototype which has revolutionised the surfing world.
The technology caters for all surfers, regardless of ability, as the degree of difficulty can be varied.
Surfing stalwart Andrew Mckinnon said wave pools were the way of the future for surfing. “As far as competitions go it’s hard to beat wave pools,” he said.
“It’s a welcome addition to the Gold Coast.
“Where it will take surfing above the lip (with aerial manoeuvres), it’s hard to say.”
Webber / Freeride Tea Party
Greg said...lets meet up face to face and video the meeting..pick a time and a place....
Well fellas ........Your both at the Snapper comp.....How about it ??
The Waco pool looks fun
Bumpity bump.
is it still being built ?
All the red tape was cleared in August so I guess they'd be getting their hands dirty.
Update from Greg please....paging greg w to the office!
540 comments and counting!
Thanks Ben
Just scrolled down for 10 minutes to read your 4 words
lol
Any way we can get something at the top of a page to link straight to the end .
How about now? LOL
Secret wave pool in Tasmania.
Fresh water.
located in Southern Tasmania.
located in Southern Tasmania.
Build it and they will come.
Greg Webber, "while the civil work, the excavation of the lagoon, begins in six weeks."
And?
hey wingnut. not that i mind you chasing up all the stories (i'm curious too), but ...
you an investor and waiting for a return? :)))
I have no financial or any involvement with any of these pond wave builders.
I'm just really curious as to the different strategies and success of the concepts. It just seems to me the biggest, most prolific, spruikers are the furthest from delivering.
onya
ta