Otis Carey seeks his day in court

Stu Nettle picture
Stu Nettle (stunet)
Surfpolitik

Yesterday the surfing world was embroiled in a race furore following news that professional freesurfer Otis Carey has lodged a court case against Surfing Life magazine and one of its contributors.

To understand the issue some background is required: In the last issue of Surfing Life Bali-based contributor, Nathan Myers, wrote a short article titled “Poetry Night with Mermaid Killer" about Aboriginal surfer Otis Carey. In the article Myers clumsily portrayed Carey as being "ape-ish", a term Carey and many readers took offence to because of its racist connotations. Shortly thereafter, Surfing Life published an unreserved apology. Despite the apology Otis Carey now intends to sue Surfing Life and Nathan Myers for defamation seeking $200,000 in damages.

Adding to the imbroglio Myers has spoken out against the lawsuit in Tracks magazine and The Inertia, apologising once more, admitting his ignorance, and laying himself at the mercy of Carey.

The issue has thrown a hot coal on race issues currently simmering in Australia, largely in part to the Federal Government's proposed watering down of the Racial Discrimination Act. That Australia's 2014 Person of the Year, Indigenous AFL player Adam Goodes, is involved - Carey sought counsel in Goodes after the original article - is also adding to the exposure.

Yet despite the racial connotations Carey is not using the Racial Discrimination Act to seek redress, but a civil lawsuit of defamation, a more generic charge not specific to racism. The Racial Discrimination Act is controlled by the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission and mediation is a compulsory part of the process. In fact, only 3% of all complaints lodged even make it to court, the vast majority being resolved by concilliation.

If Carey were to pursue that course of action the charge against Surfing Life and Myers has a far higher chance of being reduced. Due to the context - use of irony in a written piece - the charge would almost certainly be considered low level vilification and an apology or statement in the public arena be considered appropriate compensation.

All Myers would have to do is show he was ignorant of the cultural connotations and meant no malice.

In contrast, defamation is a civil lawsuit between two parties and is different in nature than racial vilification laws. It's a charge that would concentrate the question on whether the statement was harmful to Carey's reputation in the eyes of an ordinary person and, importantly, not on any racially motivated issue. Which makes Myer's open letter futile: the court doesn't have to prove Surfing Life or Myers were driven by race.

It's also a charge that, if succesful, is more likely to result in an award for damages. All the plaintiff has to prove is that the defamation brought their reputation into disrepute. Carey doesn't have to show Myers and Surfing Life tried to hurt him, just that they did hurt him, irrespective of their intention.

Lastly, the fact that it's a defamation case and not racial vilification would imply that Otis is intending to follow through with the lawsuit. Some commenters, Myers included, have speculated that Carey's actions were more public statement than course of justice. The implication being that Carey wouldn't follow through. The fact Carey has chosen the route of defamation - less controversial but more likely to succeed - would appear to prove this false.

Comments

p-funk's picture
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p-funk Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:53am

I'd suggest Otis would want to be pretty damn sharp on the tools after pursuing this one. Talk about biting the hand that feeds....

top-to-bottom-bells's picture
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top-to-bottom-bells Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 11:58am

I'm not really understanding this comment Pfunk. If Australia's Surfing Life went under because of the court case there are still two other Oz surf magazines, and I'd imagine they'd both be very happy to have the competition cleared a bit. You can imagine their thinking "Thanks Otis! Here have a cover spread."

Also in this day and age magazines are the least likely place kids get their news. Social media and websites have snuffed out the importance of surf magazines. Can't imagine Otis would be too worried about biting their hands.

wurtulla's picture
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wurtulla Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:31am

. removed - >

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 12:01pm

I wonder how long it'll take for this matter to be resolved? Lawyers are bloody expensive. If it drags out to be weeks or months, the legal costs (for both parties) could come close to matching the payout Otis is seeking.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 12:25pm

Otis Carey -insight I don't give a fuck what you say about me unless its positive.
Otis tumblr page interesting art work.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 12:19pm

Myers open letter was one of the dumbest displays of passive-agressive BS cloaked in Californian Bali Expat spiritual peace/love caca I've ever read.

Just for that alone I hope he gets pinged the two hungey grand.

The fact that considering the climate of racial abuse in Aus sport that prevailed at the time...not one of the people who wrote/edited or read that piece before publication had a red light go off speaks volumes for a monumental ignorance prevailing at the ASL culture.

And thats the kindest way one can look at this.

memlasurf's picture
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memlasurf Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:52pm

I read the letter and I see your point, however the original misdiscretion didn't seem $200,000 bad, just clumsy, dumb and ignorant and nowhere near close to what that dolt bolt disseminates about any subject you choose (as long as it is extremely right wing). It may be he has copped a stack of racial abuse over the years and this was the straw which broke the camels back. And yes, he better watch the kitty with solicitors and barristers charging well over $400 and hour, and that is before you even reach court.

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:50pm

The Inertia gives me the shits aye, so much of that passive aggressive, moral high horse 'just go out and surf' bs. Talking as if anyone who watches a webcast is not a real surfer because they're not in the water instead. Some people watch because they physically can't surf. Fuck. Just aiming my rant outside the walls of this thread.

spiggy topes's picture
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spiggy topes Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 12:25pm

Dopey writer ignorant of the magazine's market aside, responsibility for what goes in a mag is the editor's, and his or her subordinates. Either they were asleep at the wheel or plainly, not up to the task. In any professional publication this kind of rubbish never would have got past a first read, let alone the sub editors.

teabag64's picture
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teabag64 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 1:14pm

What the fuck happened to AUSTRALIAN Surfing LIfe?Why have they got dopey fucken Seppo's writing for them

barley's picture
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barley Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 1:23pm

I think otis is just going for the money so he won't have to work for a while!! who is this guy anyway? never even heard of him as a professional freesurfer? fair enough if he's offended but sort it out like men not lawyers. If Myers really wanted to demean him he could've said a lot more than 'ape-ish'..I doubt Goodesy would've said "take him to the cleaners"..whats wrong with Australia?

thebeard's picture
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thebeard Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:38pm

.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:49pm
barley wrote:

I think otis is just going for the money so he won't have to work for a while!! who is this guy anyway? never even heard of him as a professional freesurfer? fair enough if he's offended but sort it out like men not lawyers. If Myers really wanted to demean him he could've said a lot more than 'ape-ish'..I doubt Goodesy would've said "take him to the cleaners"..whats wrong with Australia?

Exactly what i was thinking...who? and money grab... which might backfire on him.

Thoughts on Surfing life and the guy that wrote it= beyond seriously stupid.

Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier ... Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:52pm

well stated Barley!
What have we become. A nation of 2 faced hipsters so false and misguided we only surface to laugh at those who are suffering. The comments I read here against the journo are equally as offensive as those against said surfer (I am to scared to identify him as anything else in fear of offense).
I mean really mate $200k for being called an ape? This has just got too out of control. Granted the assembled legal team will get the lions share of that, but has it really come to the point where we cant even use our animal kingdom as a point of descriptive reference?? Wow we better not refer to the great Occy as The Raging Bull ever again.
I get the sense that this is purely a stunt timed perfectly in the current political climate and scores points for those who peddle in such dribble. Otis do the honorable thing and earn your stripes by showing us your trade in the surf. Dont become another one of these boring sportsman who need the down trodden hard-luck story to define who you are. I grew up being called a 'wog' perhaps I should be chasing my old school mates with writ in hand. Oh hang on they are still my mates and that was just the banter of a once more simple time

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:35pm

good example of context.

The context of racism and indig australians is different.

JJ's picture
JJ's picture
JJ Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:25am

Mmmm... let me quote you :

'as it really come to the point where we cant even use our animal kingdom as a point of descriptive reference??'

Please read this again, try to think hard (really, try).... and let the world know if you think it is a smart, sensible statement..

You are either never been exposed to racism or discrimination, or don't give a s.
In both cases, and if you are Australian, you might need to consider the local history. Something people refer to as a "context".

Good luck.

Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier ... Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 10:31am

oh JJ I can tell that you are salacious in your attempt to impress everyone with your level headed, misguided attempt to educate me.
I am aware of my history, and my country's history. A point that is off topic to that of a man offended by a blunderous decription.
I guess in all your self rightousness you failed to read on. I am an Italian Australian whose family settled here after the second world war. I am well aware that every Australian at some stage travelled here, our Aboriginal brothers and sisters included. As for my exposure to racisim, dont pretend to know what I have experienced.

On your advice of much thinking I am still offering up my Raging Bull surfboard as I am just too worried it could be taken as offensive by another Italian Australian. ( I seriously doubt that however).

So thanks for the "Good Luck" and I wish the same to you.

Hey JJ - "Dynamite!"

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:55pm

Has anyone read the article ? Was it intentional abuse or poor choice of words ? I have not read it myself , yet I'm struggling to imagine a profile piece on a surfer to be derogatory. Aren't they the quintessential marketing device ?

udo's picture
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udo Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 2:58pm

Well said.
Slater ol baldy MR el flappo, the wounded seagull , Fanning white lightening, Steve blackie Wilson and lots more .
FFS. !

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 3:31pm

"The comments I read here against the journo are equally as offensive as those against said surfer ".....

Really? Which ones?

thebeard's picture
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thebeard Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:38pm

.

barley's picture
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barley Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:09pm

Nice work thebeard..I find that offensive and racist....I will not accept your apology and I will sue you for $200k too!! haha go eat some cement!! He has a right to be offended but to get lawyers involved is just plain ridiculous!! If it was an Indo or mexican I doubt he would even say anything..gotta get his 20mins of fame I guess

Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier then the sword's picture
Penis mightier ... Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:08pm

get the lawyers Barley I would take offense to that. hahaha......

thebeard's picture
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thebeard Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:37pm

.

carpetman's picture
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carpetman Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:42pm

It's a defamation case - not racial discrimination. So I think you own Barely $200k.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:24pm

Sorry guys you will have to humour me here , I'm still trying to come to grips with the nuances of modern society. - So it's alright to vilify someone with a differing opinion, but not someone that has a different shade of skin tone ?

Am I getting this right ? It's very confusing.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:38pm

jeez Blowin......

you've got a basic idea that less than a hundred years ago, far less in some cases, blackfellas were being rounded up and shot....

you understand racism a bit, right? and how it is different to being called a cunt on the internet?

or not?

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:44pm
freeride76 wrote:

jeez Blowin......

you've got a basic idea that less than a hundred years ago, far less in some cases, blackfellas were being rounded up and shot....

you understand racism a bit, right? and how it is different to being called a cunt on the internet?

or not?

Did you watch Ross Kemp last night, Free ride.... About gangs in South Africa.... Very VERY interesting....

mk1's picture
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mk1 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 4:46pm

Good luck to him. It's well beyond time that Australia grew up and recognised that systemic racism/sexism/derogatory prejudices are holding us back. There's a better nation waiting on the other side of this.

inzider's picture
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inzider Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:14pm

What a joke, people need to get sense of perspective on this one. Last time I looked we all descended from primates. However, for starters I think the koori culture and history is one of the most fascinating in human history. Secondly, they are still oppressed and marginalised by mainstream Australian honkys and their government. (apologies to all you white fuckers out there if you are offended by the word honky). Thirdly I think this is a really clever ploy to keep the issue of how fucked kooris are treated in Australia ,in the media spotlight so some meaningful debate can continue. Well played Otis, its working already. Not that I know the bloke but if he is so into this cultural issue( I dont believe in race) ,I think he would be more interested in his bretheren being treated better in the long run than 200 K in the short term.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:26pm

This is gonna stir the pot hard-

Give me three examples how Aboriginal Australians are marginalised and oppressed in 2014. As in specifically pertaining to and limited to Aboriginal Australians.

NEW !!- Scrap that, I don't have the energy.

JJ's picture
JJ's picture
JJ Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:27am

You are living in another planet and the reason why Australia will never change. Maybe try to open your mind, read, travel, learn, think.

thebeard's picture
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thebeard Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:57pm

.

inzider's picture
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inzider Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:34pm

here you go Blowin
1=a disproportionately high number of Indigenous Australians are imprisoned by the law. Contrary to popular belief, the number of Indigenous Australians who die in custody is roughly proportional to the total number who are imprisoned, compared to other ethnicities. For example, in 2009, an Indigenous Australian is 14 times more likely to be in prison than a non-Indigenous Australian, and in 2009, 25% of prisoners in Australia were Indigenous. Approximately 18% of deaths in custody in Australia between 1990 and 2007 were of Indigenous people.

2=Aboriginal students choosing higher studies only make up 1.3% of all students,

3=The vast disparities between the health of Australia’s indigenous Aboriginals and the rest of the population .

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 5:45pm

1- Do the crime, do the time. No one forcing anyone to break the law. Personal choice. Personal responsibility required. Deaths in custody commensurate with figures for total incarceration ( you gave me that one ,cheers ).

2- Aboriginal students CHOOSING higher studies low percentages. Any aboriginal student has at least as many opportunities as any other Australian student if they chose to pursue higher learning.

3- Personal health is the responsibility of any individual.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on Blackfellas. I shudder to contemplate what the Aboriginal nation has endured.

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:20pm

Inzider has pointed out the effects.

The CAUSES are very subtle. e.g. a white guy is given a job ahead of a black guy, simply because he fits in better. May not even be an active, conscious act of racism. No job -> many more problems.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:02pm

Blowin, you're taking the piss right?

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:03pm

You've got no idea Blowin. Best you stop talking now. No idea at all

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:06pm

Very interesting that Adam Goodes is involved, considering Adam ( whose public profile is alot bigger than Otis) chose not to sue Eddie Macguire ( whose public profile is alot bigger than Nathan Myers), but accepted Eddie's apology after Eddie's Ape comment on national radio ( which has a far larger audience than surfing life)...... Quite bizarre.....

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:11pm

Perhaps the scale and reach of the Adam - Eddie incident satisfied Adam that enough good (raise awareness, apology...) had been done simply through media exposure...?

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:35pm

I very much doubt that, mitch... Politics....

mitchvg's picture
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mitchvg Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:53pm

Footy politics...? way over my head :|

apeish's picture
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apeish Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:19pm

Ape-ish - Pre-human beings, also known as cavemen. (dictionary)

no colour mentioned there and he does look caveman like with his beard

im more worried abt him not paying the correct tax on the 200k being domiciled in bali

stunet's picture
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stunet Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:35pm

Obtuse: not quick or alert in perception or intellect. 

For fuck sake, the term ape-ish has been used as a pejorative against Indigenous folk since Europeans first set sail for the colonies. The implied meaning is that they are pre-human savages.

Hard to take part in this debate if you don't know that.

liamc's picture
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liamc Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:15pm

The point exactly.

disturbing and disheartening thread of comments thus far..

mugofsunshine's picture
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mugofsunshine Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 6:47pm

Reading the comments saddens me. So far to go.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 7:16pm

Doesn't take much for the racist underbelly in Aus to roll over and expose itself.

memlasurf's picture
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memlasurf Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 8:10pm

I'm with sheepdog in not quite knowing the motives on this one. Eddie let his mouth run before his brain caught up. He is not a racist, just an idiot sometimes and Adam who seems a great guy took the apology well, really grabbed the moral high ground. It happened to him at a game as well when a young girl called him an ape. He made sure everybody knew about this and was well publicised as it should be. Otis must be seriously pissed off to go way beyond this. Maybe it is a publicity stunt to heighten the issue as he doesn't have the same profile Adam does. As I said earlier I don't think he will see much of the $200,000 if it goes to court. I wonder if ASL has insurance for this type of thing, like professional indemnity, if they do it will be a dog fight as the insurance companies won't give in without a battle.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 8:36pm

Cheers, memla.... The Eddie thing was a "big fish" scenario..... I reckon alot of politics was involved...... Publicly, Adam did take it well, but from what I have read, behind closed doors was a different matter..... I could say more.... But, well, isn't it sad..... Whatever I say will be misinterpreted by both sides.... Personally, all I am willing to say is I think Eddie got off lightly, and Nathan may be copping it a bit hard.... "Sitting on the fence with an each way bet ", one may think???? Nah,,,, think deeply about it.....

udo's picture
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udo Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 9:12pm

Elliot struck @stabmag has a little piece on Otis Carey and some readers views.

barley's picture
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barley Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:11pm

this is all just political correctness gone mad! ya can't sue for that shit..fucken c'mon, everyone in oz could sue everyone then!
@freeride you really haven't lived in Aus for a long time..we are not racist mate we are just sick of all the tip-toeing and political correctness bullshit going on. Its over the top!
He could've used this thing as a real positive for himself and his career..I mean being a 'freesurfer' and a spread in a mag..talk about a gimme..who is he again give it a couple a weeks and it'll bow over

bum_acid's picture
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bum_acid Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:12pm

good grief

barley's picture
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barley Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:14pm

Be interesting if Otis would donate ( if he wins) his moneys to disadvantaged aboriginal children?

reecen's picture
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reecen Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:35pm

Why is it ok to call red heads rangas (oragnutans)?

flameman's picture
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flameman Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 7:42am

My whole family is Ranga. Both sides. Ever seen a dozen red heads together?

We love it, instead of getting uptight we embrace it, so if you are trying to have a go at us you will be disappointed.

Rangas Rule

PS non rangas need not apply for family integration.

Is that discrimination too?

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:42am

Ha ha ha ha love it flameman.
"Ranga's" probably the thickest skinned and mentally toughest humans on the planet.
I have a really strong ranga line developing on one side of my family at the moment, not quite 12 together yet but getting there.

stunet's picture
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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:49am

reecen wrote:

Why is it ok to call red heads rangas (oragnutans)?

Oh I don't know, maybe because this is a race debate and red heads aren't a race?

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:15am

How about he was commenting on his appearance and everyone decided to turn it into a race debate.

stunet's picture
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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:26am

Yes, he was commenting on his appearance...using a historically derogative term. Not sure what you mean by "everyone decided to turn it into a race debate." Otis took offence, as most Aboriginal people would, and now he's seeking redress. "Everyone else" is just commenting upon those facts which already include the issue of race.

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:46am

So in the east apeish is a historically derogative term for aboriginals? In the west it certainly isn't. If you are decreeing to the US isn't that like calling a Bangladeshi a chink?
And what I mean about everyone else is the half of the argument calling it racist.
I know a lot of aboriginal people and most have a pretty reasonable sense of what is rascism and what isn't. This seems to me to be nothing more then an opportunistic grab at some cash.
Seeking recourse what a load of shit.

stunet's picture
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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:54am

Reece I'd sugest that you give up why you're way behind. Ape has been a derogatory term for people from Indigenous cultures for hundreds of years. 

http://theconversation.com/the-ape-insult-a-short-history-of-a-racist-idea-14808

If you're not aware of this then you're either very young, very sheltered, or both. 

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:04am

Am I wrong in thinking that the journo said of apeish appearance?
Is he seeking "redress" about his appearance or his race?
Is being called a "white Cnut" a reason to seek "redress"?

stunet's picture
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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:13am

No, you're right. But racism is founded in appearance, we define "us" and "them" by how they appear - black, slanty eyes, greasy skin etc etc.

Depending on the context, if you're called a white cunt in a publication then you do have grounds to seek redress. Of course, that term cannot be compared to ape for historical significance as no genocides, massacres, racism, or institutionalised discrimination can be attached to the term 'white cunt'.

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:20am

So the newpapers comparing Abbot to a Nazi are completely ok? No "historical significance as no genocides, massacres, racism, or institutionalised discrimination" attached to that at all hey?
I am astounded that I would even comment on this topic as from personal experience it is a revolving door argument.
I don't agree with racism on any level, and being a whitey living in SE Asia with a predominantly Chinese and Muslim Malay community I get my share of subtle and sometimes not so subtle racist taunts and actions. To the point of being spat on.
This whole thing though in my opinion is a joke.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:32am

I'm kinda with you on that one reece. People doing the about face when the elevator door opens, refusing to sit next to you on a crowded train or bus, denied certain services because you're not one of them, derogatory mutterings under the breath expecting that you can't understand them and absolutely no recourse.

I think what the journalist did was stupid and foolish, good intentions bad intentions aside. But to financially ruin a bloke?

dandandan's picture
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dandandan Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:13am

It's something often left out of the debate... I've often been told that I "don't know what it means to be a minority, to be racially vilified"... I've lived a good chunk of my life in Java and often I'm the only anglo atheist in an area. I go weeks upon weeks without seeing someone of my ethnicity or skin color and, like you, am constantly vilified on the basis of skin color, ethnicity and religion. It's not just 'hello mister' but 'stay away from my daughter you sex fiend' 'get some morals you white dog' etc. etc. My nationality often gets me in to trouble and certainly means I'm not afforded many of the rights that a citizen in Indonesia has - despite paying taxes and fees etc. In short - I know exactly what it feels like to experience extreme (theft, verbal and physical abuse), discriminatory racism.

And like you, I think Otis is taking this too far. If he feels he was targeted because of his race, why not follow the pathways that redress issues of race? Nathan Myers should know better, and be disciplined for his foolishness - as should the editors. But $200K? That would bankrupt a magazine, and ruin not just Nathan's life but also his families. I'd feel that is more extreme than saying that someone has an 'ape-ish' appearance.

If Otis feels that the comment makes fun of the way he looks and has nothing to do with his race, then go for it, follow the defamation case. But it would be a bit like Sarah Jessica Parker financially ruining someone for saying she looks like a horse.

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mitchvg Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:19am

extreme? has your family been murdered?

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dandandan Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:28am

No. Has Otis's? The seventeen stitches in my head from a rock thrown at me while someone shouting 'Pulang bule!', the kidnapping of my ex-girlfriend by her parents for dating me and the burning down of my business by the FPI were pretty extreme. I'll get back to you if someone murders my brother and let you know.

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mitchvg Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:34am

Otis isn't claiming extreme racism, but that's besides this point.
Compared to life in Australia, that is extreme.
On the scale of racism (which you claimed), not extreme.

reecen's picture
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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:38am

You serious mitchvg?
that sounds pretty extreme no matter where you come from.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:22am

Is that why the beard removed his posts? Second thoughts maybe?

Blowin's picture
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Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:40pm

Not taking the piss Freeride , not being rascist either. Merely pointing out that I don't believe Aboriginals are oppressed in 2014. Not saying they weren't ( up until very recently ) or that the reverberations of that oppression are not still reeking havoc in their communities to this day.

Past tense - present tense. See the difference there, it's not too hard to fathom.

1- Incarceration rates. I realise that the destructive effects of the war on Aboriginals has created an entrenched social schism amongst their nation, however - that war is over.
Aboriginals enjoy every freedom we do. It is up to the individual that is about to commit a crime to consider the consequences of their actions ie going to gaol. It is up to Aboriginal society to fix itself now, we can only provide the tools , support and hope that they succeed .

2- Higher learning options are widely available and encouraged.
My work partner on my last job ( Paul.S -proud Blackfella from Townsville ) was describing how his daughter did not do as well in the HSC as she would have liked, she had hoped to enter Law at Uni. Fortunately she was able to attend her preferred course. Due to an Aboriginal tertiary learning program.

3- Paul .S Himself ate a terrible diet like most of my workmates, we would discuss how the effects of such a diet would have an exponentially deleterious effect on his health due to his ethnicity comparable to the effects of the same diet on our Anglo colleagues ( although they were fucked also) . He knew the consequences and it was his responsibility to act accordingly.

Responsibility for ones life is essential to gain any self empowerment. Applies to every human being. To state this is not rascist.

Paul also got his job BECAUSE he was aboriginal as do many Blackfellas in my industry.
There is mentoring program's to facilitate the entry into the workplace available through out the industry.

Would you describe this as oppressive behaviour, intending to marginalise aboriginals ?
The nation united and officially said sorry, the corner has been turned. The healing has begun.

The days of Oppression are dead. To say otherwise is to dwell in the past.

As for a white bloke being given a job over a Blackfella because he would fit in better, wake up. Those days are done. Maybe even twenty years ago but it was Free ride's , Stu's and my generation that put an end to that shit.

As for not knowing what I'm talking about Goofyfoot, by all means enlighten me please.

As for the underbelly of rascism apparently rife through out this thread , read again with your eyes open. There is minimal mention of his Aboriginality , most posts opposing Carey attack him for his approach not his ethnicity. They see him as money grabbing or overly litigious.

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mitchvg Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:29am

I don't know about 'fitting in' first hand, I've heard & read about it. Considering the stereotypes that still exist (that I do know about first hand) and burgsurfer's comments, I believe there is still fair amount of discrimination.

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Blowin Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 10:56pm

There you go, off my leash again. Denigrating Australia or Australians is my little pressure point.

Of course calling an Aboriginal an ape is unacceptable , been negative connotations there since whites first coveted the land they inhabited.

On topic - Surfing Life, not malicious but stupid.
Otis Carey, opportunistic

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Coops70 Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 11:11pm

Just read the article, while it would not be the words I would use to describe someone I think in the context of what was written it was a brain fart by the author. He does go on to say how good a surfer he is and eloquent as he put it, I do t think he meant any ill manace. The bloke is just a twat.

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spiggy topes Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014 at 11:56pm

Let's hear from ASL's editor.

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inzider Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 1:17am

Blowin, I cant help but feel your eurocentric viewpoint is part of the reason you dont think marginilisation and oppression exists in your country. For tens of thousands of years these people had there own culture and way of life and you expect them just to adjust to ol whiteys ways in the blink in the eye that has been colonisation? and just brush off the genocide and wholesale destruction of their culture at the hands of your not so distant relatives. I would like you to experience a year walking their shoes, it is easy to sit back and say I'm not racist and they have it all at their disposal these days blah blah blah. Whats not easy is understanding why throwing piles of money at them is not fixing the problems.

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:10am

if anyone should be suing anyone over alleged defamation shouldn't it be Rob Machado vs Geico Insurance?

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 5:03am

ain't that a bit racialist"?...

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freeride76 Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:20am

"@freeride you really haven't lived in Aus for a long time."

Fifth generation farming stock from North Queensland mums side, convict scum Dads side. I was born here, my kids were born here. I'll die here.
I've seen the racist underbelly in Aus mate. Grew up with it. Where I went to school it was considered perfectly normal to call blackfellas coons, boongs or worse. The racism was overt, expressed easily and accepted. It went from the bottom to the top.

It seems it's become a bit more insidious.

Political correctness is a seppo concept.

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:22am

jump on board, bandwagoneers.... as apparently libel cases are all the rage.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=libel+cases+australi...

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:24am

freeride, this political correctness you speak of?... seppos are over it.

http://takimag.com/article/political_correctness_is_dead_gavin_mcinnes/p...

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freeride76 Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:41am

Yeah me too. Surf day.
All the best blokes.

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memlasurf Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:29am

That's a good effort freeride, my family gets lost only 2 gens back stuck between Ireland, USA and England. Very messy and have some wog in me as I have olive skin. Something about the Spanish and the Irish ladies going back a few centuries.

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Willliam Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:12pm

Isn’t the term ‘wog’ a racists one?
I went to school in western Sydney. Huge percentage of the intake was from English speaking background. It seemed to be ok for them to call me a ‘skip’ as well.

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memlasurf Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 1:18pm

All my Greek, Italian, Serbian, Spanish, etc.. friends love the term so I use it as a term of endearment now. I grew up in inner Melbourne for a time where I was the odd skip out. It was a real cultural soup.

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burgsurfer Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:32am

I see a lot of rascism in the industry I work in, recruitment. Time and time again I have seen businesses not interview the "non-anglo saxon" named people and go for the "aussie", brit, NZ, Irish etc. Most will do it discreetly without saying we dont want them but others talk about not fitting culture, having accents, quality of work.... At present I focus on professional corporate placements and lots of the applicants often are highly educated from overseas, with lots of experience, inlcuidng experience already gained in Aus. Then there is also the second generation educated in Australia who get the same discrimination.

I cut my teeth in recruitment focussed on blue collar stuff and saw a lot more racism then. They would say "don't send me any bloody...." Ask why and they will say things like - "lazy, stupid, just dont like em."

I lived in Cronulla for nearly 10 years and now am on the South Coast NSW. The Cronulla rascism was rather full on in the social circles I had, which were surfers. The community I am in down the South Coast is a bit more laid back but just the other day I overheard a lady at the train station with her full occa accent commenting about the "lazy bloody XXXX who sit in the park and drink"

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:48am

i'm a half breed, grandparents on dad's side, Navajos straight of the res, mom's side poor southern whites.... google searching the term Apes in Australia all one could find was some random Accounting Professional and Ethical Standards board,... APES for short.

If the author had used the term Yowie like instead,... would Otis have been as offended?

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:52am

Maybe try this Roller?

Wilful ignorance doesn't make the term any less real.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:20am

Are you saying the roller is willfully ignorant? Or is it a generic comment?

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yocal Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:09am

For fuck sake Blowin,
You sit in an ivory tower don't you!!

When for generation after generation a group of people have been opressed, children stolen from their families, treated like slaves, abused on the street... guess what happens? life gets desparate, many turn to crime and alcohol & drug abuse to cope and the degradation of the group starts. Some are lucky and make the transition into the greater society, but the vast majority (go to any country town) have been stuck in a cycle of abuse which isn't helped by any amount of $ compensatory schemes the government can come up with.
So if you come from a slum/mission whatever, where the guardians are constantly drunk, incestrious, violent, it is hard for a 4 or 5 year old to make sense of things such as school or Law. It is such an ignorant thing for someone to assume that now that these 'schemes' are in place, that all of a sudden this 4 year old who has suffered abuse all his/her young years is not going to wind up in jail or on the dole with an alcohol problem (probably born alcoholic too while being fed it in the womb).

It is fine for someone like you to say 'well its not my fault it was all in the past we need to move on but they aren't cooperating'. Good on you, go tell the four year old to hurry up and become interested in School, tell them to go home at night rather then play on the streets and get into mischief.
What you will find is that they are scared to go to school and are scared to go home.

What we have in Australia is a serious problem developed over generations. Don't think because you didn't do it, its not your problem. It is Australia's problem for at least the next two generations if we truly want to have a society where everyone has 'equal opportunity' to receive the benefits of that society. Can't throw incentive schemes at it. I don't really know what the solution is...

But I sure as hell am not going to sit in my ivory tower and assume that the majority of Aboriginal people in my society now have equal opportunity.

And I certainly am not going to assume that the numbers in jails and the lack of numbers in schools is because they are lazy and we give them too much.

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pigdogger Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:03pm

Yocal, you've exposed the real problem. I see this in my home town on the north coast of NSW. It's almost a right of passage for young Gooris to do time. Nearly all of my son's Goori friends have done a stint. Not to mention the neanderthal behaviour by some of the local constabulary over the years. Police woman says to two 14-year-old Goori kids passing a football among half a dozen white kids: "Fuck off out of town back to the mission." Says one of the white kids: "What about us? Why are you picking on them?" Says the policewoman: "I'm not talking to you." One of those kids has since killed himself - he was one of those kids you were talking about, growing up in a dysfunctional community.

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yocal Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:30pm

Yeah Pigdogger I'm drawing my experience from my wife teaching at primary schools in the Yuraygir/Bundjalung region. The state of the communities is atrocious, especially ex-mission ones. And it is right on our doorstep. When you hear about these little kids and the conditions they are brought up in, it makes you realise how bad this situation is, and how it isn't getting the correct form of attention from the Government. Dole doesn't help when alcoholism is rife in the community. Primary school doesn't cater for kids who need to learn about basic hygiene, or how to make lunch for themselves, not maths. Jail doesn't help the delinquents find a purpose to live.

Here's the case that deeply saddened me and gets my back up when people assume that things should be sorted now we have equal rights. The 4 year old girl i'm thinking of had herpes, when she got to school she used to climb up and hide on the roof because it was safe, and she didn't want to go home every day because she had to sleep every night in the lounge room with her extended family of cousins, aunties uncles and grandparents who were always drunk & violent.

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:26am

Was it on Stu's linked list?... Isn't ranga a bigoted term?....

Redheads. By far the smallest minority group on Earth.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:42am

Free ride never got back to me re' Ross Kemp on gangs the other night.... They interviewed a "coloured" gang in Capetown.... This gang is called "The Americans"...... They are made up of 1/2 cast (1/2 negro and 1/2 white) poor folk..... Under the white regime, they copped it in the neck....... Now under the "black" regime (their words) they cop it even harder...... A few weeks ago I wrote that bigotry is ingrained in the human psyche..... Doesn't make it right..... But it's a fact.... The only way to move forward is for all races to accept their own faults.... Pointing fingers, putting words into others mouths, dodging and weaving won't accomplish anything..... I am disappointed in Myers sloppy insensitive actions.... I am also disappointed in Otis' reaction to the public apology.... I am disappointed that (if true) Adam Goodes, who accepted not one but two apologies, may be coercing Carey to take down a small fish when he could've fried a whale........ The whole thing stinks....... Something really positive could've come from this...... A public meeting between Myers and Carey on "Sunrise", people getting behind an indigenous/polynesian surfing competiton to highlight racism in sport, or something akin..... This piss ant lawsuit will do nothing in the long run...... A true gesture of goodwill would've done heaps more......

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the-roller Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 10:52am

Oh the irony....

Scary Carey, as he refers to himself,...

has a sponsor.

http://www.gorillasurf.com/the-team/otis-carey

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Blowin Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:02am

Yocal I think you need to read my post again because we are in total agreement. Not saying Blackfellas aren't still suffering , just that it's not cause of any oppression being applied by modern Australians.

I was replying to Inziders comment that Aboriginals are still being purposefully held back in present day Australia. I say that's not the case.

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yocal Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:34am

Blowin in response,
I wasn't disagreeing with your comments that Aborigines are afforded the same rights as all Australians.

I disagree with the fact that you expect the majority of the already disadvantaged Aboriginal people to take complete responsibility for improving their race's incarceration rates, education levels and personal health as of the date that racial equality became enshrined in the constitution, as of the date that Australia said 'sorry'.

A shit load more work to be done buddy before we can wipe our hands clean of it. Back to the 4 year old in the Slum/Mission. If you can find a way to fix this child's mental disorders from the abuse they have suffered over their short life, get them to make informed choices about Law, School, personal health. If you can turn all the lives of this generation's disadvantaged children around, problem solved.

Until then, it is unfair to mock these people about being 'ape-ish' and primitive, when the current disadvantage can be traced directly back to a long history of oppression by the same race as the people mocking them.

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yocal Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:11am

Did Myers release the article before or after McGuire's apology? When is enough enough? I would read the situation as this:

Adam Goodes accepts an apology which is heard publicly and gains heaps of media coverage as being an apology for an 'unacceptable' racist comment by McGuire.

Otis cops effectively the same comment down the track from Myers. Seeks Adam's advice. In light of McGuire's apology, and the coverage this issue drew, how is it acceptable that another person from the Media uses the same racial comment without some reservation?

Would another apology really suffice here?

I gather the resolution Adam and Otis may have come to is that an 'apology' didn't really make a strong enough statement last time to ensure that people in the Media don't feel it is ok to 'accidentally' make throw-away racist remarks.

As such, yeah I can see why they chose to go legal and take it up a notch. Shouldn't Myers have known better? Maybe he missed the whole debacle with McGuire? Maybe not, but either way, he is the next person to make an inappropriate comment after it has been clearly shunned by the media and also supported by the organisation and stakeholders who decide who the Australian of the year is.

The court will decide whether the McGuire issue is related to this issue. I reckon that's likely to be what the prosecution will be trying to establish. And fair enough too.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:17am
yocal wrote:

Did Myers release the article before or after McGuire's apology? When is enough enough? I would read the situation as this:

Adam Goodes accepts an apology which is heard publicly and gains heaps of media coverage as being an apology for an 'unacceptable' racist comment by McGuire.

Otis cops effectively the same comment down the track from Myers. Seeks Adam's advice. In light of McGuire's apology, and the coverage this issue drew, how is it acceptable that another person from the Media uses the same racial comment without some reservation?

Would another apology really suffice here?

I gather the resolution Adam and Otis may have come to is that an 'apology' didn't really make a strong enough statement last time to ensure that people in the Media don't feel it is ok to 'accidentally' make throw-away racist remarks.

As such, yeah I can see why they chose to go legal and take it up a notch. Shouldn't Myers have known better? Maybe he missed the whole debacle with McGuire? Maybe not, but either way, he is the next person to make an inappropriate comment after it has been clearly shunned by the media and also supported by the organisation and stakeholders who decide who the Australian of the year is.

The court will decide whether the McGuire issue is related to this issue. I reckon that's likely to be what the prosecution will be trying to establish. And fair enough too.

And the Sydney swans debacle only a week before the "eddie debacle", Yocal????? Shouldn't of Eddie known better? And check the dates re' Eddie, Myers..... Google it..... It aint that hard....... Do your research, man.

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gooey Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:42am

Just checked with the NSW Supreme Court and apparently he (Otis) hasn't filed anything yet...

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yocal Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:56am

righto SD caught me out there. I tried to cover my lack of research by asking the question not making the statement :)

Let's replace Eddie McGuire's comment with the actual reason Adam Goodes has had a high level of media coverage in the past 6 months, and my above argument makes sense. The crux is that the issue of calling someone an 'ape' drew enough context to get this issue into the Media spotlight for several months.

edited

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Shatner'sBassoon Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:10pm

Kool comments! Good to see! But can we speed it up a bit...I think we're still lagging a bit on the old "I'm not racist, but..." of the latter part of last century & beginning of this one and haven't fully embraced the new "I'm a bigot, so?" as championed by our glorious leader and his gang. Step it up, dudes. All together now, "hooray for Tony, hooray at last..."

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spiggy topes Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:49pm

ASL editor keeping a very low profile.

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freeride76 Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 12:52pm

Of course, it'll be his head on the block if the shit hits the fan.

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Willliam Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 1:23pm

In the perfect world it would have been nice to see Otis take the moral high ground. Be the better / bigger person as such. I have no doubt that he was offended and no doubt that enough is enough.
Why not use social media to raise awareness and education that this is not acceptable in human culture. Kick up a song and dance for sure. Use social media to bring all three parties together, and I would hope that over the various Facebook / Instagram accounts and media websites that a huge number of people would become aware of Myers misdoings. Get Surfing Life with assistance of Otis to do a story / photo-shoot on why and what Myers said was wrong. Get Surfing Life to sponsor an Indigenous surf competition. Use this unfortunate event to become an ambassador, a voice if you like against racism. Get in touch with Adam Goodes for advice and to help promote the situation.
And, if he is after a some financial gain from it all. I’m positive that Otis’s marketability would increase by taking the moral high ground. Becoming an ambassador and getting his face (and sponsors) all over the various forms of media would have numerous long term financial outcomes. Be that good bloke that everyone wants a piece of.

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mk1 Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 2:17pm

Your comment presupposes there is something wrong with working to defend what you see as your rights, using the tools society provided to do it.

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Willliam Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 2:45pm

No no not at all. The unfortunate part of society that is if you choose to defend yourself through the courts via suing, many people assume you are money hungry and that’s all you care about. The ‘act’ committed against you becomes secondary and the monetary outcome becomes the discussion point.
I was simply suggesting other avenues of tools that modern society has provided. Social media, which in its own write can be ruthless and highly effective. But this does depend on the severity of which you wish your persecutor to be punished. Public humiliation, awareness and education maybe someone’s goal, while financial ruin maybe another’s.

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mk1 Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 3:18pm

William, your initial comment starts with "In the perfect world it would have been nice to see Otis take the moral high ground. Be the better / bigger person as such."

I was working from there. Personally, I don't see any moral "lowground" in anyway that Aboriginal Australians want to approach incidences of racism. If rights are incurred upon by others, then any approach legally open to is as good any other. Moral issues are for the perpetrator to ponder.

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Willliam Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:53pm

Yeah I take your point. And it’s a good one. I guess it might be a personal thing. I’d rather see someone try and create some positives rather than drag it through the courts. I may have had general racism issues in my head when I made the post. I’m sure everyone on here has been discriminated against in some way or another and they have gotten over it. However, having it done in the media would stir extra emotions.

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mitchvg Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 11:30pm
mk1 wrote:

Personally, I don't see any moral "lowground" in anyway that Aboriginal Australians want to approach incidences of racism. If rights are incurred upon by others, then any approach legally open to is as good any other. Moral issues are for the perpetrator to ponder.

My thoughts exactly.

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 3:50pm

A time to forget and a time to remember. Here's an article written a few years ago about the event that led to the naming of Blackfellas in South Oz - Where Blackfellas met their Waterloo.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:09pm

Did a white surfer name the break? Is it racist? Inland of Noosa is "murdering creek road", where a whole tribe was killed.... Should the break be renamed murdering cliff?

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lostdoggy Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:45pm

Massacres in Vic is named after a similar event to that of Blackfellas I believe.

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:12pm

Not really sure what you're driving at here, SD.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:17pm

Ok, "blackfella" is racist..... Do I have to spell it out for you, Stu? Go up to an aboriginal and say "hey blackfella!!".... Then you will know what i am "driving at"......

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:01pm

I think your correct the word blackfella is racist if coming from a white fella (kinda like the word nigger in the USA)

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:24pm

Watch your tone mate. I didn't know what you were asking because that question is a a non sequitur to the article at hand.

And 'blackfella' is now a racist term?! Not to the Warumpi Band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLKGIf68So

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:03pm
stunet wrote:

Watch your tone mate. I didn't know what you were asking because that question is a a non sequitur to the article at hand.

And 'blackfella' is now a racist term?! Not to the Warumpi Band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLKGIf68So

Watch my tone? Excuse me? Re read my post and explain to me what my "tone" is.... Stu, everyone knows that when a african american uses the term "nigger" to his "brothers", it is alot different to when a white man uses the word "nigger"..... That's a fact stu..... It is the same with the aboriginal community re' Warumpi band. It's a song from a different era .... I went to school in Cairns, Stu, where if you yelled out "hey blackfella", I'm telling you, it was racist.... Expect a fight...... Now you can subjectively look for a "tone" in my post all you like. But in my opinion, if "Blackfellas" was named by an Aboriginal, then fine..... But if it was named by a white surfer in the 1960s/70s, an era when racism and calling indiginous folk "blackfellas" was ok, then the name of that surfbreak is historically tainted with racist undertones..... You mightn't like it Stu, but it certainly isn't a non sequitur, as indigenous tribes have called for the renaming of many places due to their insulting nature....
Oh, and Neville meets budhha, grow up.......

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:21pm

Mate....read MY post. It had sweet fuck all to do with the legitimacy or otherwise of the term Blackfella. I don't think you even read the article but created some other issue. As I said, a non sequitur.

Do I have to spell that out for you??

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:45pm
stunet wrote:

Mate....read MY post. It had sweet fuck all to do with the legitimacy or otherwise of the term Blackfella. I don't think you even read the article but created some other issue. As I said, a non sequitur.

Do I have to spell that out for you??

Of course I read it... Why do you think I brought up Murdering creek road west of Noosa?????? A slaughter at Noosa.... A slaughter at Elliston.... Capiche??? So obvious I read it....
A political blog moves and morphs in different areas... That's what makes them an interesting read.... Your post on "Blackfellas" got me thinking about the historical naming of places in Australia, and some of the more insenstive names like Gin Gin, .... I'm allowed to think that way, stu... The thought police haven't taken over yet.
If the local elders of the region, or Yunggorendi are happy with the name "Blackfellas", all well and good.... If not, then it is an issue that should be looked at.....

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stunet Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:59pm

Why the fuck do I bother...

You can think whatever you want WikiDog, I'm not stopping you, but when you move the conversation in a way that isn't obvious then I'm allowed to ask - and innocently so - what "you're driving at".

Which I did, only to cop a condescending "Do I have to spell it out for you?"

Capiche..?

Now go argue with someone else WikiDog, I really couldn't be bothered.

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Sheepdog Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:32pm
stunet wrote:

Why the fuck do I bother...

You can think whatever you want WikiDog, I'm not stopping you, but when you move the conversation in a way that isn't obvious then I'm allowed to ask - and innocently so - what "you're driving at".

Which I did, only to cop a condescending "Do I have to spell it out for you?"

Capiche..?

Now go argue with someone else WikiDog, I really couldn't be bothered.

Insult me, and walk away, Stu.... That's fine.... My original post was very clear..... I wasn't "arguing" with you.. I simply asked if "Blackfellas" was a surfbreak named by a white man, and does it have racial undertones..... Everyone is up in arms about one comment from a clumsy idiot, and rightly so... But when I ad to the conversation an angle on the historical naming of places in Australia, in a fully transparent manner I must be "driving" at something. I could accuse you of false naivety... A false naivety because you knew exactly where I was DRIVING,,, which BTW I took as an insult..... I know you are a very smart man, so don't play me as a fool.... You knew where the conversation was heading....
All of a sudden, an article you wrote, and a fine article too, may be picked up and looked at by the mainstream, indigenous Australians (Otis no doubt), and questions may be asked in regards to the naming of a surf break.....

A clumsy fool sued for a racist comment against Otis - good
Racial undertonesfrom the 1970s in a named surfspot - bad.... Run away from that one.......
Hypocrisy and a paradox for many....
As I said ,Stu, I was never arguing with you, I took your "driving at" comment on the chin, and you over reacted to my "spell it out" comment.. I'm sorry...
But if you have considered this an argument, and then resorted to name calling, "wiki dog" found a quote for you; Socrates - “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

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neville-beats-buddha Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 4:42pm

I do believe you are speaking out of your arsehole Sheepdog.

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misanthrope Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 5:11pm

A lot of assumptions are being made here. Perhaps Otis is being represented pro bono; and just because he is, or proposes to, claim $200K in damages doesn't mean he will be awarded that amount if the case proceeds to judgment and is successful.

My reading of the decision to pursue defamation, rather than racial vilification under the Racial Discrimination Act, is that Otis may have had some difficulty satisfying the second limb of s. 18C of the Act, i.e. that the offensive, insulting, humiliating or intimidating act was done "because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin" of Otis.

In any event, it simply beggars belief that after all the hysteria surrounding the Adam Goodes affair (not to mention the Andrew Symonds/Harbhajan Singh incident), and Abbott's and Brandis' crusade against s. 18C, that the editors were not alive to the fact that the use of the term "apeish" had the potential to blow up in their faces.

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udo Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 6:57pm

Pro Bono on this matter, I doubt anyone would take this on Pro Bono.
Whaaaat your views ?

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misanthrope Tuesday, 22 Apr 2014 at 11:56am

There are several barristers in my brother's chambers alone who'd be willing to work pro bono on a case such as this. My point is simply that a number of people are willing to cast aspersions on Otis' character (and, to be fair, Myers' as well) without full knowledge of the facts.

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Weegie Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 7:00pm

I was once told I had a gorilla stance. Should I be concerned?

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zenagain Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 8:23pm

And oftentimes I've been called a cheeky monkey.

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reecen Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:00pm

I was called a swamp donkey the other day, who should I call?

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zenagain Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 at 9:36pm

A few more and we could launch a Class Action.

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 1:19am

Monkeys are great, cheeky, doers, goers, problem solvers and fun. 68.....?

Racist or not we have all evolved from ................?

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the-roller Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 4:05am

Otis and the crew may be brilliant.... anyone think this may be a novel way of the Stick rattling the Swill Bucket?

shouldn't he be suing his sponsor? Gorilla?

https://www.facebook.com/gorillasurf

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morris Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 9:46am

Thats gold check out that bloke wilko, is he wearing a pink dress?

www.gorillasurf.com/gorilla/team

www.gorillasurf.com/gorilla/home Looks like the gorilla team likes to monkey around.

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zenagain Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 10:39am

And one of their team riders, Kyuss King looks like Rocky the Flying Squirrel in that pic.

Hope he doesn't sue me.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=ja&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=10...

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udo Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 8:27am

Bomboraa over at Realsurf forum general discussion pretty much nailed the Otis issue .

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woohcs Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 9:21am

I grew up in suburban melbourne, and until the Adam Goodes thing had never ever heard the word ape used way, had no idea it was a racist slur. So for a californian now based in indo? Surely you'd have a better case against the editors

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 9:29am

Racist slur's.....!
Wodka
One jandal
Otis elevators...?

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Coops70 Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 9:41am

When I was young growing up surfing west oz late 70's/ early 80's we used to call pieces of reef sticking out nigger heads. Looking back I did not even think of the racist implications, call it the sign of the times or we/ I were just plain ignorant. Would never use the term now because it's just wrong but back then thought nothing of it. Sign of the times I guess.

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zenagain Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 10:43am

Same. When fishing for Rock Blackfish as a youngster they were commonly referred to as Niggers. As a kid didn't realise the implications.

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Sheepdog Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 10:01am

Ahh welly you crack me up lol... Happy easter you renegade :)
Great point Coops70...... Times have changed so much... A couple of weeks ago in Bens tunes thread I sent in some very early indigenous Australian music..... A band called Coloured Stone was mentioned Here's a track from the early 80s... Note the lyrics at 2.34..... Everyone, including myself, are so much more touchy and "sensitive" these days...... Alot can be learnt from looking to this era (80s). If Otis chooses to sue, fair enough.... He is the victim... But he is in a position where he could accomplish so much more, even if the position was thrust upon him.....

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zenagain Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 10:52am

Dave Chappelle, one funny cat.

I dare you not to laugh.

&list=PL5711HuL9SLQyN7hEHdEAprSRHvMrz-eZ

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 1:43pm

Zenagain.?? again again again :)
Thats gold, DC one funny fuck for sure.
Niggar family No8, Jews and Wet backs...?

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udo Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 11:06am

Coon cheese

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Sheepdog Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 11:40am

Here's an interesting angle for all the conspiracy nuts out there...... In the last 4 weeks, we have had not 1, but 2 "major" news stories covered by very large powerful mainstream print media ( News L, and Fairfax)... Also covered by Yahoo......
Both stories are a direct attack (rightly or wrongly) on 2 separate surfing publications, Tracks, and Surfing Life...
The first story - sexism in the surfing media - directed at tracks.....
The second story - racism in the surfing media - directed at SL....
Now, i am sure that if I nitpick through the Age, or Telegraph, or Herald Sun, I would find something that I could call "sexist", or "racist".... Hell! I just have to go to Herald Suns Andrew bolt column for that.....
If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd look along the lines of "The big boys wanna take out some small fish, and then start their own publication......." lol

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indo-dreaming Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 1:22pm

Views on the race issue definitely change overtime, i cant help but think that ten or twenty years from now things will be different once again.

Personally i think if you treat any race differently in a negative way or even a positive way its a form of racism, rather than treat everyone equally as humans or in our case Australians.

Currently we have a government that treats people differently based on race with a government that treats Aboriginal and Torres strait people differently to any other Australian with all kinds of programs, funding, handouts, dry committees etc sure it might seem like a good idea but IMO its based on what some call white guilt and is suppose to somehow makes up for past generations mistreatment or attitudes.

Personally i think its a negative and creates division and stops us all moving on rather than treat people or communities on a needs basis.

Off course just having this view i will get labeled as racist, which is annoying but doesn't bother me that much because i know thats not how i feel.

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clif Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 1:53pm

Some people may find interesting this lecture by Stuart Hall (a noted scholar on race and ethnicity) interesting. It has helped me to see the Otis Carey situation differently to my first impression. After watching this lecture I realise that as a whitefella in Australia I cannot really know what Otis, his family and community feel and think about it all. My context is so different that my interpretation of it all (including of what 'race' is or isn't and what it connotes what in various situations) is going to be incongruous with theirs. So, it's important for me to listen and learn when they come to explaining (if they do) their reasons for taking this action etc. And so be sure to never be as misinformed as Myers was (or perhaps the editors were). Anyway, if you have a little time over the weekend I reckon it's worth watching this. I found Hall to be a good speaker and really clear.

The lecture is short but it is in seven parts:







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davetherave Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 9:16pm

Otis, I am sorry you have been hurt by someone's remark. But a remark can only hurt you if you allow it to. What's your problem Otis, you could have set up a meeting and worked it out so that it was a win win for all parties. Seeking 200 grand makes no sense, it does not paint you in a good light and will do more harm to you than good.
yes the bloke should have worded it differently, but your re action is an over reaction- turn the other cheek- you know it's not true, so why stress. People make mistakes, forgive them just as I'm sure you have been forgiven for some of your past misdeeds.

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maddogmorley Tuesday, 22 Apr 2014 at 1:49pm

Well said dave

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mitchvg Tuesday, 22 Apr 2014 at 3:03pm

I would have to disagree maddog. That is the kind of piss weak bullshit that helps perpetuates ignorance. Did that help Adam Goodes and attitudes towards indig Aussies? Clearly not enough, as the ed thinks he can put the disclaimer of 'oh but I wrote about my mum' on his "unreserved apology".

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andrew-pitt Wednesday, 23 Apr 2014 at 12:34pm

Who is Otis Carey? I have never met Otis, but i believe he is a man of principle, a man with a clear foundation for a system of behaviour. No, i don't think Otis 'wants his day in court', he is doing his part to change attitudes within our surfing sub-culture. Like the TV show Puberty Blues - Otis has put a mirror in front of us, it pains us to look, but what we see is that too many surfers are selfish bigots. Does that include you, most of my mates and even me? Thanks Otis for reminding me of the task ahead.

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Blowin Wednesday, 23 Apr 2014 at 12:40pm

Mate it pains me to look in the mirror enough without adding that shit to it.

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Halfscousehalfc... Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 1:35pm

The whole bloody thing is ridiculous. Meet each other for a beer, shake hands, talk about it, get it off your chest, shake hands again and never speak another word of it..problem solved

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Sheepdog Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 1:50pm

I see Andrew Bolt (what a lovely man.......... :/) was onto Otis Carey yesterday......

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thermalben Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 1:56pm

Interestingly, the Gold Coast Bulletin ran a story yesterday but pulled it shortly afterwards. Google still shows the summary text but the link is now dead.

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/gold-coast/indigenous-surfer-su...

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Sheepdog Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 2:08pm

Both owned by news ltd.......... hmmm, maybe my conspiracy theory joke - 18/4, 11.40am, is on the money......

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mitchvg Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 5:15pm

Haha, it didn't sound too wacky to me

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Mosh Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 8:56am

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2239104/surfers-finally-realise...

Maybe just reporting on surfing a lot more? Could have something to do with ZoSea and their (possible) far reaching influence?

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Rabbits68 Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 2:36pm

I completely understand (as much as a white man can I suppose) about the negativity surrounding the "Ape-ish" lookalike comments.

However what about that diagram we see all the time, often used in marketing scenes, where modern day man is evolving from Ape to Man & eventually standing tall etc. Surley you would have to agree that some people from those indiginous backgrounds have that evolving appearance??

Im not justifying the journos comments/context but merely pointing out a fact (in my opinion). Should the use of that diagram depicting the evolution of man be banned. Is it a racist picture??

In regards to the racist theme, as the saying goes, "walk a mile in my shoes"........

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udo Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 2:37pm

Has Fred Pawle commented on this anywhere ?

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shortmac Thursday, 24 Apr 2014 at 10:29pm

What happened to the saying sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never harm me
Bag of cement anyone?

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mk1 Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 5:29pm

We used slander to dehumanize it, we played word games to make it separate, less developed, unworthy of recognition. And once that was done, we simply drove it off a cliff.

The names always came first.

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velocityjohnno Friday, 25 Apr 2014 at 1:59pm

Poor fellow, my country.

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Old Frother Saturday, 26 Apr 2014 at 12:14pm

This is an absolute joke ,arguments will go back and forth for days but at the end of the day it really was just bad context ! Its like Mick Fanning sueing someone for using the name "White Lightening" obviously everyone knows its based on his blonde hair and fast surfing but Mick could say it is discriminating his skin colour .For Otis the same goes the name "apeish" used was based on his hairy look just like Mick's ,Otis should have execpted the apology and be a man about it he knows it was bad context he just wants to cash in as his surfing isnt paying the bills and how else can he afford to finish off his arm tattoo !! #HipstersHateWorking

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clif Saturday, 26 Apr 2014 at 12:27pm

Thanks, Otis. I think this was all about getting a discussion going in the public sphere, a discussion that needs to be had. A 'quiet word' wouldn't have had that effect.

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stranger Saturday, 26 Apr 2014 at 1:50pm

I'm not being politically correct, but this is a great thread for outing racists.

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sypkan Saturday, 26 Apr 2014 at 3:46pm

politically correct an American concept?

politically correct or racist hey?

Not that simple, the offensiveness of a word is subjective, and changes over time. Stunet and sheepdog disagree on blackfellas, I would think its alright with the right tone, but..

Stunet and yocal are fighting the good cause (no sarcasm at all) and pulling people up on what is appropriate to say and do in polite society, while both using the word "Aborigines". In really polite society, debating this topic, this word could be deemed offensive, yet well educated people involved in the debate are ignorant to this, see http://www.jumbunna.uts.edu.au/about/language.html .

If active people involved in these debates have different ideas, how the hell is your average pleb supposed to follow what they can and cannot say in this age of political correctness? And should they have to anyway?

Now most people have a pretty good idea of what is appropriate, but even these people would be pretty ignorant as to the cultural significance of using primate terms describing indigenous people, especially in Australia, but I'm sure most still wouldn't use these terms, which raises big questions about the culture and competence of the magazine staff involved here.

These terms are not nice, generally, but with the right tone they could possibly be used to build reconciliation, if the politically correct do gooders would back off, and perhaps concentrate more on poor outcomes rather than poor language for Indigenous people.

Otis can have his day in court, and good luck to him, he is just playing the fucked up system we live in, where money is the only thing we think about to deal with issues. One would hope he chose other avenues but many honkeys would do the same given the opportunity. If he wins, it is going to increase the burden of political correctness another notch, and raise serious issues about free speach, neither are good outcomes I think.

It appears even academics are tired of political correctness see http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3731552.html

While I agree with this academics argument, I would add it is the burden of political correctness combined with the wasting of billions of dollars on social programs that don't work, that is hindering reconciliation, more than any wayward comments, and that is why the "racists" come out when this topic comes up.

I also grew up in a school where it was ok to say boong, after a period away Ive recently had contact with the school and footy club again, and its associated Aboriginal people, and I cannot believe how well they are accepted compared to just 20 years ago, Yeh there are still bad comments around but I think these come from dickheads rather than racists, and unfortunately there are dickheads everywhere, hence the racism in Japan, Indo, India etc.etc. racism is a part of life, like blowin I don't think racism is this big dark specter hanging over Australian society that some would have us believe.

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yocal Monday, 28 Apr 2014 at 10:16am
sypkan wrote:

Stunet and yocal are fighting the good cause (no sarcasm at all) and pulling people up on what is appropriate to say and do in polite society, while both using the word "Aborigines". In really polite society, debating this topic, this word could be deemed offensive, yet well educated people involved in the debate are ignorant to this, see http://www.jumbunna.uts.edu.au/about/language.html .

Skypan,
probably missing my argument if you read my comments as 'pulling people up on what to say and do in polite society. I'm not trying to make sure people are polite.

I was doing three things
1) Disagreeing with previous commenter's assertions that Aboriginal People should all of a sudden take full responsibility for the incarceration rates, school attendance and personal health as of the date that they were afforded equal opportunity in the constitution & a politician said 'sorry'. Then provided reasoning why the problem is much greater than providing 'equal opportunity' in our constitution.

2) I then explained my understading of why mockery of Aboriginal people by white Australians is a particularly sensitive issue, when the insulting words can be traced directly back to a long history of oppression by white Australians.

3) then I explained in light of the above points that it was reasonable for Otis to be offended by the ASL editor's comments, and given the widespread media coverage of the term 'ape', and its insensitive connotations, the editor should have known better, and that the courts may see it that way also.

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sypkan Monday, 28 Apr 2014 at 11:20am

Yocal, I didn't miss the point of your argument, I am actually impressed that someone like yourself clearly has their head around the issues, which is more than I can say for your average middle class bandwagon jumper who likes to label anyone a racist who has the balls to ask the hard questions (not me, but people like ID etc. who clearly is not racist). I was just using you and Stunet as examples of ' schooled up' people that are still ignorant of the intricacies of modern political correctness around this issue, because I want to know where this PC shit will end, as I believe it has gone way past its usefulness see quote form above article.

"Many would agree that political correctness (PC) has gone well beyond the stage of being useful and on to the stage of being a serious hindrance to addressing many of the social problems that plague society.

It has perhaps created more problems than what it was intended to solve. This is particularly true for the Aboriginal community, a topic I wish to discuss here. Specifically, I wish to discuss the use of the term "Aborigine" and whether it is appropriate or inappropriate to use it when describing people with Aboriginal ancestry."

I totally wholeheartedly agree with your argument Yocal, I just get tired of well educated simpletons labeling anyone who does not share their worldview.

I live in a shithole suburb where racism was accepted, even the bogans surrounding me have moved on more than people like Eddie McGuire yet nice people would criticise them as being uncouth, uneducated or unsophisticated (essentially bogans) due to the language they use, I think it is more important there is no malice in how you say something rather than the actual words. Few nice people in nice suburbs actually have anything to do with Aboriginal people. The people here live side by side with them, and are getting on with 'getting along' yet they are often denigrated for their words.

I have looked after that little girl you described, only now she 9, after5 years in care she is pretty much committed to permanent care, with little prospects for a good life despite a ludicrous amount of money being devoted to her. It is not easy dealing with her needs and family, and the people that look after occasionally make inappropriate jokes that would shock most people, but fuck that lot, if you don't joke you cry.

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stranger Saturday, 26 Apr 2014 at 11:38pm

Sypkan, did you see what I did there? I see what you did there: I'm not racist, or a bigot, or a dickhead, but billions of dollars are wasted on social programs.

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sypkan Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 7:27am

I'm not following you there stranger, maybe because I was taught not to follow strangers.

do you mean luring me out as a racist?

and now you have filled someones earlier request by writing I'm not racist but...

that's why this racist thing is a slippery slope and you just cannot control it, saying Aboriginals are good at football is racist too, but it is the best thing the lefty education departments in Oz can come up with for fighting Aboriginal disadvantage, just don't say it aloud, someone might be offended.

Anyway I wasn't just referring to your post

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sypkan Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 9:14am

ok stranger, I reread your post and understand now

You are saying that I said "I'm not racist, or a bigot, or a dickhead, but billions of dollars are wasted on social programs."

I almost said that, not quite

racist - a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others.

bigot - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Racist, by the definition above I'm not a racist, if pointing out that Aboriginals have brown skin and generally are good at sports, then I'm a racist (so are education departments across Australia). I'm not going to avoid saying the bleeding obvious so I don't offend some nice white middle class dude who generally has nothing to do with Aboriginal people, yet a lot to say about their plight.

Bigot - again by that definition I am certainly not a bigot, quite the opposite, I believe we have a lot to learn from Aboriginal people.

Dickhead - yeh well I might just be a bit of a dickhead, sometimes, most of us are.

Here is a quote from article above, PC might make white honkeys feel better and create jobs but I think the energy and resources could be focused better.

"Perhaps those who promote the message that use of the term "Aborigine" is offensive likely feel good about themselves and probably believe they have helped close the gap, promote reconciliation, opposed racism, etc. I actually think they have created an impediment to reconciliation. I guess for long as there is potential for Aboriginal people being offended because a particular term has been declared offensive, will maintain a job for some people."

As to billions spent/wasted on social programs that don't work, that is a fact my friend.

I have seen so many caps, drink bottles, t shirts etc. printed with feel good messages handed out while charities ask me for money for basics like medicine and books for Aboriginal people, It just does not add up. For fucks sake focus the money better.

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the-roller Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 11:44am

Paul Mooney, Bobby Slayton, Rain Pryor, and... Jim Jeffries.

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udo Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 12:20pm

GOLD.

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Sheepdog Sunday, 27 Apr 2014 at 10:45pm

Sypkan, I wasn't "trying" to argue with stu, or anyone. Having looked through the thread, I'd say stu was already in a defensive frame of mind by the time he and I locked horns.... A quick thumping at Sandon may have settled him down...... ;) Just jokes stu...
All I was doing was pointing out the convoluted argument of "interpretation". One mans "ape" is another mans "blackfellas".... I mean if we as a surfing community are going to deplore comments directed at a "black" surfer, shouldn't we also look at our own history? A history which includes naming surfbreaks like "blackfellas". If "we" don't, or if we run away from it, then "we" are hypocrites..... We can't pick and choose racial battles that suit us, and then steer clear of others, because of ?????
You can't selectively champion a cause......

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sypkan Monday, 28 Apr 2014 at 10:10am

Hey Sheepdog, I didn't say you were arguing, I said you disagree on the appropriateness of using the terms which was kind of the whole point of my post. It looks like you were both a little defensive that day, probably because it is an emotional issue 'loaded with hypocrisy, that's why everyone loses it.

As to the rest of your post I totally agree.

If you grew up listening to Warumpi band, Blackfella seems totally harmless, but if you say Hey Blackfella, probably not cool, its all about the tone and context.

ps. I love the coloured stone song too, but we probably cannot take that line so literally.

Also, tell us more about Eddie McGuire, that cunt should have been sacked, non negotiable, its hardly a brain snap when you have had days to think about it. Sacking him would have set a real example, and achieve much more than nice people picking on bogans for how they speak.

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Sheepdog Monday, 28 Apr 2014 at 9:22pm

Sypkan,, interesting that you dropped the "c" bomb when talking about Eddie.... Either smart politics or extreme luck on your behalf... ;)
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/04/28/08/39/eddie-mcguire-expla...

Goodes was absolutely fuming behind the scenes...... But Eddie is one of the most powerful media/football identities in Australia...... Fly on the wall stuff....... Was Goodes coerced into accepting Eddies apology?

Anyone else drop the "c" bomb on air and they would be turfed.... But I bet teflon eddie escapes....... Again.....
Quite unbelievable, really.....
Oh, and ps, SK, I dont think I was being defensive....At the start............ I just think stu got oversensitive with my "spell it out" comment. If I had've put a winky face on the end ;) , perhaps the "tone" would've been different.... It's funny, SK, when you are face to face chatting over a drink, you can see into a person's soul.... If you and I were mucking around and I said "fuck off mate", you'd see my eyes and know I was joshin' ya.... You'd laugh and grab another beer, or coffee......But on the internet, "fuck off" can become quite sinister..... I see people misinterpreting sms's from friends..... I interpreted stu's "driving at" as deliberate naivety.... He interpreted my "spell it out" as a scathing attack...... In person, "the argument" would've been brushed off, because when you analyse it, we are actually on the same side.....

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sypkan Monday, 28 Apr 2014 at 11:26pm

ha ha fluked it with the cunt thing

not that flukey though really, because he is a cunt

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stunet Saturday, 3 May 2014 at 6:33pm

Apes? We Are All Monkeys! From today's Fitz Files:

"Meanwhile, there has been another interesting racism story in sport this week, after Brazilian and Barcelona player Dani Alves was playing at away at Villarreal last Sunday and about to take a corner kick when someone threw a banana at him. With staggering aplomb and no hesitation, Alves picked up the banana, peeled it, had a bite, and made the kick – a beauty. All but instantly, his Brazilian teammate Neymar took a photo of himself eating a banana with his son, with the hashtag #WeAreAllMonkeys and the whole thing taking off, with people of all stripes, and colours, around the world releasing photos of themselves eating bananas. The whole thing has wonderful overtones of the famous story of what happened after the forces of Adolf Hitler invaded Denmark during World War and issued an edict that henceforth all Jews would have to wear a Star of David symbol on their upper arms. The following morning the Danish King emerged with such a symbol, saying, “We are all Jews.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/sydney-ready-to-grasp-olympic-baton-should-r...

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nusa Tuesday, 13 May 2014 at 12:58pm

To know more about Surfing Life's and Nathan Myers unethical surf journalism practices check this: http://eepurl.com/Urqyr

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nusa Tuesday, 13 May 2014 at 2:53pm

To know more about Surfing Life's and Nathan Myers unethical surf journalism practices check this: http://eepurl.com/Urqyr

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anothermindless... Friday, 16 May 2014 at 8:00am

I looked at it Nusa. You come across as a bloody idiot. Pull ya head in! Not really appropriate to compare your experience with Otis'.

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mitchvg Friday, 16 May 2014 at 9:21am

Haha yeah a bit of a noose-er move, it seems like he's having a petty fight. And I couldn't be bothered trying to decipher his 91 word, one sentence paragraphs. But I ended up deciding to assume he wasn't actually trying to compare his situation to Otis's here.

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nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 9:44am

You're right Mitch, we weren't comparing our situation with Otis's. If you think the lies and abuse of power by the media in detriment of the small guys is a petty fight, then keep supporting them and that will perpetuate the media as it is. Also, please try and take your time to decipher the long sentences so you can understand what we are doing. Forget about the surf media being your friends. They are not. Have you ever heard of a clothing company putting itself on the line against the powers at be for what we believe is right? C'mon, give us a chance with an open mind and try to read it (and watch the short film) again. Cheers!

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nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 10:53am

Hi anothermindless. We were not comparing our experience with Otis'. A friend of ours grew up adoring the surf magz and when he watched Memo From Surfing his first impression was to feel attacked. But then he thought about it and realized: "wait a minute, why am I offended and upset about this film? SLA and Myers did publish lies about another surfer just because they couldn't get what they wanted from him. Why are we not allowed to question their practices? Why do we think they are any different from the rest of the media?" and then he actually was able to enjoy Memo From Surfing for its originality and message. Give us another chance and check it out again knowing that we are not comparing to Otis' case but rather showing how the surf media is no friend and cares about itself only. Trampling you if needed to make a quick buck. Cheers anothermindless!

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal Friday, 16 May 2014 at 10:22am

It is a strange caption indeed for a standard pic of a wipeout. Looks like ASL had a bee in their bonnet when they wrote the caption to the wipeout pic, so you can understand why people are sceptical here Nusa, seems like there is more to the story than you are telling.

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 10:50am

thanks for the insight yocal.
Maybe diego's unbearably long sentences don't help in making things clear (we tell him so!). Basically Meyers asked his collaboration in telling the story to which he was happy to do and asked in return and in an extremely polite way for a barter for two small visual ads to which they refused and diego said no problem, next time then. Then ASL published that caption full of lies to make him look like an asshole and diego very calmly and politely asked them why? Again he was mistreated and denied a retraction. That goes to show that ASL and Myers seem to only understand the language of money and litigation to issue an apology for its abuse of power. Watch Memo From Surfing. Maybe it's clearer there. What is ironic is that media and some surfers alike seem to look down on litigation and yet when we choose to do it differently through a creative and original film, the same people sneer at us.
Now, why be skeptical about a company that puts itself on the line for what we believe is ethical and not be skeptical about the media? Very strange. But hey, we know it will take us long and a lot of sneering to break through the shackles of preconceived notions. We shall not sell out though even if we don't succeed.
If you are interested in the e-mail exchange just send us an e-mail: www.nusasurfwear.com Cheers!

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal Friday, 16 May 2014 at 1:59pm

Nusa I read Diego's article "A group of Italians claim Bukit spot as their own". Seemed blatantly hypocritical to his article about ASL.

But then the disclaimer! *This story is true as recounted to us. Dialogues and captions, however, are fictional and intended to highlight the humor in the surrealism of a situation that is serious in nature. We hope the reader is able to appreciate the humor.

“It’s only surfing. People grin and turn the page"

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 3:35pm

yocal, we don't see how that is hypocritical to diego's article about ASL.
In the same way we don't believe the abuse of power by the media is right, we don't believe in the abuse of power by means of physical or threatening violence inside or outside of the water is right. The article about the Italians denounces that violence in the same way we denounced Myers and ASL abuse of power.

We also see the honesty in diego's article (absent in Myers caption) when he affirms that "the story is true as recounted to us...etc" The person that recounted the incident did not have a recorder to record the threats that were blasted on him. How could diego quote? Myers did have a record of e-mail exchange and purposely misquoted and lied. You don't see the honesty in diego's words (neither the dishonesty in Myers'). On the contrary you see hypocrisy? C'mon, with all due respect, it seems like you are trying to find dirt where you won't find it. Writing about something serious does not mean that it should be devoid of humor. And hence the sentence. "...the humor...serious in nature."

Comments in our site are not subject to revision and they were open for those italians to comment. And guess who is not coming to our store on the Bukit anymore? Guess who lost business by staying true to our beliefs? You seem to forget that we also are a business.

Do you know how many big surf mags and surf websites allowed us to post Memo From Surfing link? So far, I am told, only swellnet. The other ones blocked us. Didn't reply to us or gave us a bunch of excuses. You are welcome to post our link in all the big magazine sites and see what happens.

It's really up to you yocal. Think about this: why would diego waste an opportunity for nusa to collaborate with ASL? and then why would we go through all the work of making a short film if it wasn't based on something real? and then why would we put ourselves on the line knowing that most surfers that write on blogs and magazine comments are very much so skeptical of those that are not famous?
It seems that people only see what they want to see. Thanks for getting on the debate though.

And by the way, what did you think of Memo From Surfing?

Cheers man. I hope you will get to know each other better little by little.

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal Friday, 16 May 2014 at 3:53pm

No I take a much simpler line than that Diego/Nusa .

You hang shit on these Italians and write whatever you like to sensationalize it, but throw in a disclaimer to suit your needs in taking the higher moral ground, then on the other hand made a massive deal of it when ASL did the same.

What would you have done if ASL decided to put in a similar disclaimer? would Diego still get the shits that they bagged him?

Probably. He seems like a 'fiery character' haha.

Appreciate that you allow open comments on your site, as opposed to a mag immortalising the text in waxy paper that can't be withdrawn.

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 4:18pm

Yocal, c'mon man.

We did not hang shit on the Italians. What was described on the article did happened. Those Italians will even tell you so. ASL did not do the same. What they said happened did not happened. If you can't see something that simple then you can't see it.

ASL did not put a disclaimer (which would have rendered the intention of the caption meaningless). They also rejected a request for a printed apology. And didn't even take responsibility for their actions in private.

Very surprised yoca that you don't support a change for a media with more integrity.

Cheers.

(sorry we didn't understand the waxy paper thing)

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:07pm

yeah just can't see it sorry Diego.

I reckon the Italians would tell me that in your article, especially photo capitons you are hanging shit on them but.

I am indeed questioning the integrity of all media.

Let's agree to disagree.

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:13pm

Sounds good yocal!
I hope you enjoyed the film!

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:21pm
nusa wrote:

You seem to forget that we also are a business. Do you know how many big surf mags and surf websites allowed us to post Memo From Surfing link? So far, I am told, only swellnet. The other ones blocked us. Didn't reply to us or gave us a bunch of excuses. You are welcome to post our link in all the big magazine sites and see what happens.

They probably blocked it because they thought it was spam (which it kinda is). Your initial post had a link to your own site, and was also your first ever post on Swellnet: that's the first clue to a spammer - which most sites won't tolerate (Swellnet included). However in this case it brought about some additional discussion so I'm happy to let it stay there.

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:41pm

Hi thermalben,

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Any link you would suggest to check the do's and don'ts of posting on comments, blogs and so on? Any special rules on swellnet?
We thought spam was something that was automatically generated? We're quite clueless, sorry.

Cheers!

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:46pm

Our code of conduct is here: https://www.swellnet.com/forums/code-conduct/37586

But in general, it's better to develop a presence and personality on a website before linking to a website you're involved in. Get to know the forum members and the way the forum works, and you'll get a much better response. And don't just contribute in the one topic - involve yourself in other threads.

nusa's picture
nusa's picture
nusa Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:55pm

Got it! Thanks thermalben.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 16 May 2014 at 7:01am

Well, if Otis does have his day in court at least he can rock up in a cool pair of shades. Just signed a contract with D'Blanc, Paul Naude's new sunnies company.

https://www.dblanc.com/blog/introducing-otis-carey/

anonymous1's picture
anonymous1's picture
anonymous1 Friday, 16 May 2014 at 5:43pm

'Well, if Otis does have his day in court at least he can rock up in a cool pair of shades. Just signed a contract with D'Blanc, Paul Naude's new sunnies company'
looks like board cave and Tourism and Events Queensland are also now backing him - http://vimeo.com/94472558

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 21 Jul 2014 at 7:42am

So whats the latest with this - is there a date set for hearing this matter ?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Monday, 21 Jul 2014 at 2:30pm

Haven't heard anything but will try and have a look around this week.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Saturday, 26 Jul 2014 at 7:23pm

A columnist in The Saturday Paper today wrote that Otis had filed proceedings against SL. I'm not sure of the timing or veracity. See end of article titled 'Piping Hot':

http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2014/07/26/gadfly-wake-fright-wigs/1406296800#.U9NzE4CSyaM

prothero's picture
prothero's picture
prothero Monday, 28 Jul 2014 at 11:00am

OTIS could have took the high moral ground and done well from that, instead it seems to me he went for the money, maybe thats wot happens when you take council from Lawyers.....'you lie with dogs and you get flees'

mk1's picture
mk1's picture
mk1 Monday, 28 Jul 2014 at 1:47pm

Prothero, please advise us of what your version of "the high moral ground" is, how you came to acquire it and how you have applied it to this situation. That way we can at least start to untangle your comment.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 29 Jun 2015 at 2:52pm

.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 29 Jun 2015 at 5:28pm

Brutus , are you going to share your "in jest" long lost family instagram vid with Otis Carey or Adam Goodes
Its good you have some fun humour in you.