Simon Anderson on X-Core Reactor blanks
Y'all know X-Core Reactor blanks, right? Well if you don't then you should. Made by low key Northern Beaches surfer Nick Miles, X-Core's are getting big raps from a number of shapers, all the fuss being due to their performance and not a big bucks marketing campaign.
In an age when everyone has their own complex flex invention™, Nick has kept it simple with two curving stringers that distribute load and allow flex in the nose and tail - just where you want it.
The latest shaper to hop onboard is Simon Anderson. 35 years ago Big Simon invented the Thruster, a design that allowed him to carve in small waves and it's similar thinking that attracted him to X-Core Reactor.
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Swellnet: What was it that caught your eye about X-Core?
Simon Anderson: Well they've got a point of difference in that it's essentially a stringer-less epoxy blank with a curved in stringer. That was appealing to me.
Had you experimented with flex in the past?
Not really, no. There'd been no need until I started doing a few epoxies here and there, and generally epoxy feels a bit stiffer so we needed to get a bit more flex into the blank...somehow.
And the X-Core really targets where the flex is – nose and tail. Was that a consideration for you?
It was more that some people go looking for the performance feel of epoxy and it sparked my interest to get an epoxy that I liked the performance of. That's what first drew me to them.
You have a few team riders do you expect they'll pick up the X-Core blanks?
I know Cooper Chapman had one. I did some X-Cores a while back and Cooper got one and liked the feel of it so we'll see. There are people out there that like the feel of epoxy, so it's nice to have a good product to offer them.
It's interesting coming back to it now after a bit of time away from it. Today I just surfed a board I made for myself and it was good. It felt quite good. I enjoyed the surf I had on it. It was in pretty small waves. Small but clean waves. A good test.
What was the feeling?
The things that appealed to me was the buoyant light feel. It was ideal conditions for a buoyant light board: clean, 1-2 foot, a little bit of a wedge, and a little bit of speed in the waves. But nonetheless the appealing thing was the light feeling. It was easy to catch the waves and get going, then you did a turn it was very easy to get back going again and get speed again.
In small waves, once you've completed a turn, you know, sometimes it's hard to get going again, but I had no problems. So it had speed and looseness...
What shape?
The board that I made for myself is an all round shape but because it's so light and buoyant it felt really nice as a small wave board.
They look fantastic too, at least as far as blanks go. Not sure if many people would care about that but...
Yeah but there's a point of difference that seems to be capturing the imagaination of the marketplace. If you've got something that works well and that looks techy...if I can use a non-technical phrase, I think that's appealing. I think the marketplace is more open to new things and new looks and people want that point of difference. X-Core has also got that.
You're gonna have two of your boards on X-Core is that correct?
Yeah, that's the plan at this stage. We just wanna offer a custom epoxy board in our range because people like epoxy or want a lightweight small wave board. They dont necessarily have to get a fish-style board so we'll have two models for that 1-4 foot size range, which is what we mostly get here and on the East Coast.
So yeah, I'm doing a performance fish model, the 5-Spark, and the new all wave performance model, the Alley model. We'll see how they go but so far so good...
When they first hit the market Swellnet took a closer look at X-Core Reactor blanks. Check that story and video here.
Comments
It's disappointing that someone as experienced as Simon Anderson is perpetuating confusion in the marketplace about surfboard construction.
Epoxy is a type of resin, not a blank material.
More and more surfboard buyers are savvy and appreciate correct information being put out there so they can make informed choices.
Bit of googling showed the blanks to be made of EPS, of varying densities.
Does he think the polyester option is still better for big waves?
by implication, you would think so.
Mate who kites reckon they last much longer than standard construction with the extra heel pressure from kiting.
So you could conceivably use them with fibreglass resin? From the vid looks like they are flex in the tail and stiffer through the middle.
Standard PU would melt the blank it's EPS
Simplified explanation:
Foam = Polyurethane (PU) vs Extruded Polystyrene (EPS) [plus a million others, but they are the two most common]
Resin = Polyester (Poly: resin + MEKP catalyst, or UV catalysed) vs Epoxy
Both systems use fibreglass wrapped around the foam and saturated with the resin of your choice.
Carry on.
Onya surfstarved. Nice an simple ;)
Maybe, you should be a surf journalist - seems there is an opening in the market for a factual and technically correct version of most aspects of the sport. :)
As one of your first assignments, any chance you can explain what a 'down carve' is and where the naming of such a maneuver came from?
TIA.
Memlasurf,
"These EPS (expanded polystyrene) foam blanks are molded just like the traditional PU blanks. EPS foam can only be glassed with Epoxy resin, if Polyester resin is used it will destroy the EPS foam."
Source : http://www.foamez.com/eps-surfboardsup-blanks-c-87.html
Just to put it in black and white: this is a surfboard using an EPS core(blank) and laminated with epoxy resins.
So if its an EPS blank using epoxy resin, which is the only resin it can have, what's the problem with calling it an epoxy?
Ah, yeah, ok then ... so what would you call a board that is a PU blank glassed with Epoxy resin?
Also, isn't this an article / advertorial for the blank? So, best to get the specifics correct?
Hmmm.
No, it's not an advertorial - you've got a real thing about that haven't you? - and Simon can call it whatever he wants. It all sounds like a whole bunch of nothing to me: an EPS blank can only be glassed with epoxy resin so why not call it an epoxy?
As above, a PU blank can also be glassed with epoxy resin.
It's misleading Stu......
whether that bugs you or not is another thing but you'd expect someone of Simons stature to put the correct info out there.
Honestly mate, it was a throwaway line in an interview. A euphemism that most surfers would understand, yet if he knew the hypercritical amongst us would be analysing every word with clinical intent he may have thought more about it.
Feel like you're the one most bothered by it.
As I said Stu, what then do ya call a PU blank glassed with Epoxy resin?
Now, as for the 'advertorial' aspect ... well, yes. I prefer to read new content, good interesting articles that aren't flogging some product. Plenty of that on other surf and mainstream sites. I've said before, your articles about surfboards, and those design articles you were doing with the dude from Black Apache, are GREAT. I much prefer to be reading more of that content on here, and the ensuring discussion / comments.
It's called content wingnut2443. Stu is also correct. Mr Anderson can call it what he wants.
how embarrassing , epoxy is a resin , there is extruded and expanded Poly styrene , DHD already called his new model epoxycore ,.......blah blah blah
I heard they pivot reeeeaaaaal nice though.
Does anyone know if they have made an EPS blank that doesn't suck water?
Cause that is mostly the deal breaker for me.
Sounds pretty gnarly if you get the wrong blank.
Water Absorption
"One of the major drawbacks to using polystyrene blanks in the past was the quick absorption of water. This material is made up of many styrene beads stuck together. As a result, some versions of the material had many voids for water to seep into. This has been addressed in recent years."
“Our Ultraflex boards have the normal Techlite fused cell EPS core (Fused Expanded Polystyrene),” continues Hyland. “It doesn’t have any voids and it doesn’t absorb any water. All the cells are completely fused together. When we’re blowing the EPS foam, we pressurize the mold. As we pressurize the foam, it forces the foam cells to fuse together completely so there are no voids or gaps in the foam. Closed cell EPS doesn’t transmit water from cell to cell. Bad EPS, on the other hand, will be full of voids.”
source: http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfboard-anatomy/materials/surfboard-...
Hi, worked in the industry for a long time and all blanks will suck water as you say. Have a look at a ding with a PU or EPS blank both will suck some water in it with a ding and need to dry out. The beauty of EPS blanks is that they float better and hence great in small waves. If you look at actually who benefit most from riding EPS boards or Epoxy Boards it is the average joe or what I call the weekend warrior who works hard through the week and don't surf as much as they would like. Few extra kg's and suddenly your normal PU board does not feel that great. Light board that floats well and you catch more waves and the stoke level is through the roof. A good example is the Hayden Hypto Krypto, lots of surfers rave about them as they are actually catching waves and not just bobbing out the back like kelp. Hope this helps.
I guess they just refer to them as Epoxies as you can only glass eps with epoxy resin.
"epoxy is apparently far superior" ( according to the material/genius at the local Commercial glass and resin store). Same person thinks "Carbon is far inferior to
kevlar ".
regarding the flex f a surfboard:
does anyone knw by how much a board actually flexes by when being ridden?
Obviously the different blank/resin combinations, the thickness of the board and the power put into turns by the surfer will have a an impact on the flex but has anyone actually done enough experimenting to know the actual amount of flex that is/can be obtained?
Great question Pointy! Going to pass this one though.
So, anyone know if these X-Core reactor blanks are using fused cell EPS?
Maybe the manufacturer of the blanks could come on here and clear up the confusion?
LD is it correct that EPS only have to be laminated in epoxy then can be filler / hotcoated with the normal resin.
Pandora's box right there Udo.
Great Question Udo, what type of bond would you get?
Epoxy will stick to cured, clean and well sanded PE resin. PE over epoxy is a no go. Anyway why would You want to do that? Epoxy is a stronger resin, and is more impermeable to water, there's a reason it's used to build boats.By the By, kevlar suffers terribly from uv exposure...
Edit; got My urethane's mixed up with my ester's. fixed now.
on a different tack: epoxy resins are affected by UV much more than polyester is.
with most boards kept in board bags, garages etc most of the time it is not an issue but if you leave your board in the sun for long periods of time then polyester is definitely a better option
Honestly - with all this poxy wording - does it really matter? Most surfers - pretty much everyone here - wouldn't and couldn't tell the difference and does it make any difference to our surfing ?
You serious?
It's chalk and cheese between eps/epoxy and standard pu/pe.
There's a massive difference in performance.
A german backpacker on his second day surfing could tell the difference.
Hey FR76,
Care to explain to us punters out there the "massive difference in performance" between the two?
Any feedback from some German backpackers having had "two days surfing" would also be appreciated.
Cheers.
I had a Surftech tufflite and the performance difference to a PU board was noticeable. It was a more buoyant board but it was harder to catch waves on it. Unlike a PU board that continues to drift forward on its own momentum after several strokes of paddling, the EPS board stopped dead quickly. It tended to bob up over the wave like a cork instead of biting into the water and picking up the power of the swell as you paddled. Once it was on a wave it was fast and easier to turn than a PU board, but you have to keep it in the hollow section. If you get out on the shoulder without enough speed to cut back or the wave gets fat, it's hard work to keep it going. In contrast, my PU board will keep going through a fiat section and is easy to recover from a stall. Simon says the opposite - that EPS boards are easier to maintain momentum - but that wasn't my experience.
Interesting to hear about your experience Coaster, particularly like you said, given it sounds like the oppoisite to SA. Thanks for sharing....
So - the massive difference is ? and what does that do for my surfing talent ?
My reading is that Simon has aimed this chat as mainly marketing and not technical in any way. His last comment confirms this. Some blokes like a light board in certain conditions hence he wants it in his range. I'm sure he is talking about EPS blanks hence epoxy resin etc. this can open up many areas - vacuum bag, veneer etc, mass production.
Ive had about ten EPS- Epoxy boards now and never had any problem with them sucking water when dinged, because basically apart from the odd rail shatter or crack I've never actually had a proper open ding that would suck water, even most of those rail cracks/shatters were in airline transport, so i just sealed them up with a bit of epoxy sun cure just incase..
And BTW that's not because I'm careful or don't surf reefs, I've swung them around and hit rock cliffs and thought...fark...looked them over and only had a scratch or a small crack.
I have snapped one though that was beyond repair.
HI All,
I Make the Xcore blanks,
Firstly thanks for the article Stu, really appreciate swell nets interest in our technology.
The whole thing about calling eps boards epoxy is like Stu said, Its just a way of communicating with the market. I think the more Epoxy is used widely as a resin the more we will see the break down of acronyms become widely used.
Basically like someone said Epoxy is a resin just like Polyester. The resin is used to wet out fibre glass our another material the can create strength. Its a combination of the resin and other material that create the strength. If you used the same fibre glass with the two different resins you would get a different result though as the resins have flex patterns just as different cloths do.
Some acronyms used are.
PU, This is polyurethane blank glassed with polyester resin.
PE, polyurethane blank glassed with epoxy resin.
There is a huge number of things that people call EPS ( expanded polystyrene ) boards and just calling them "epoxy" is one of them. I would say that probably came from the fact that you can only use epoxy resin to glass EPS or XPS (extruded polystyrene) Foam.
We stoked to be working Simon as he has such a huge amount of experience and obviously is keen to experiment and find new ways of doing things. He is one of the greats of our industry !
The huge difference with our blanks compared with almost all others technologies is that we are strengthening the core with our carbon fibre stringers. Its very different to the wooden stringer with the dual arcing formation and that it runs through on an angle. The also don't run the full length of the board to allow extra flex out the nose and tail creating a tapered flex, That create drive in a surfboard. Our product provides more strength where you need it (under you feet) and more flex where you want it ( at the tips of the board.
why is the carbon better than laminated stringers , and whats the science behind having flex tips on the boards , do yhey break where there is no stringer at all? looks realyl interesting!
Nick d, do you happen to have any data on the flex, especially at the tail ? As Pointy (above) requested, I would guess the blank would have to be thin to flex. I assume epoxy resin is stiffer than Pe.
Thanks for coming on Nick.
Do your EPS blanks take in water?
Hi Mate,
The short answer is yes (just like any board ) but far less than a lot of other eps boards. The thing is that they say eps is a closed sell foam and doesn't take on water, This sis true but misleading. The actual beads that make the blank don't take on water, but when the blank is made from a whole bunch of these little beads steamed together. The amount of water or resin they soak up is down to how well the beads are fused. Some people use "block foam" which is far inferior and is made in a huge block and then around 50 blanks can be cut out of the block. the fusion of the beads is extremely inconsistent which means there is lots of space in-between the beads for water etc to fit in the gaps, Not to mention that its weaker and more likely to break as the beads aren't joined properly. but its cheap, like a third to quarter off the price of a moulded blank ! This brings me to the the kind of foam we use. Moulded blanks; The process is the same except its made the size of one blank. This makes the fusion of the blank extremely consistent. They are much stronger and the density is more accurate and suited surfboard performance. better fusion means they take on far less water but are not water tight. I have laminated many types of foams in my years that claim to be closed cell and don't take on water, But they all take on resin when I'm laminating ! Some are better than others though, and the current eps we use takes on less than PU foam.
.
Hey there everyone, Just dropping in on this topic.
Back in 1989 we , that is mates of mine and me were doing our own boards with similar techniques to Nicks.
We started out using "steam form styrofoam" as used in fruit box foam.It was sourced by us from Adfoam in Smithfield, shaped accordingly and glassed 4oz hull , 2 x 4oz deck with epoxy filler coat . I incorporated 2 vertical laid uni-directional stringers in these boards . Resin was Nuplex r180 . They weighed around 2.4 kg.
The boards all performed well , everyone was stoked. Then the rot set in , literally.
Once "steam formed polystyrine" is wet ....cracks in the glass etc . it soaks up water and the board begins to decline rapidly. Out of 8 boards 4 snapped , the others just deteriorated quickly.
I then sourced "extruded" styrofoam from Shane Stedman. He was using it along with a carbon/ply stringer making boards which retailed about 15% dearer than conventional "poly u" blank / poly-ester glass boards.
This worked really well but if you pushed the limits you could still snap them.
The extruded foam will not soak up water like its poor cousin old "steam formed"styrofoam. Some manufacturers still hide this rubbish material beneath vac bagged layers of other foam and laminates. I'm fixing a mates little 5'6" summer board ,made in Brookvale and can't believe it's blank is "steam form"styrofoam.
One thing to watch with "extruded" styrofoam is dont leave it in the sun in a car. I left one half shaded , with the tail in the sun. The tail half got so hot , the air inside the filaments had nowhere to go but "out" and I ended up with a 6 mm "step tail" which I never wanted.
Back to this technology.....IMO the "Sculpt" boards a a work of art and full credit to you Nick with the angled stringers . Just make sure you dont leave this foam in the sun on a hot day.
A question for consideration ....like a board repair you need to be careful not create weak points alongside strengthened areas..... Is it possible that ending the carbon stringers will create two potentially week points just above the tail( less likely with fins and additional thickness) but more so in the nose above the stringer end points?
Its a legitimate question mate. The thing to consider is that its not an absolute stop, The foam has strength too in way of flex. If you think of the nose as a triangle from where the stringers stop there is also one the other way back in towards the centre of the board. So if your flex the nose or tail with no glass on the board you can see the flex structure is working in more of a diamond pattern, rather than two triangles with an absolute point of weakness intersecting them. The skins of the board also help spread the load away from just that point.
That was my first thought when i saw these a while back, id put my money on it when they snap it would be at one of those two areas.
Im a fan of anything that is out of the box though.
Thanks King !
Have ridden one of the xcore boxers that nick shapes and makes and confirm the very lively feel of the xcore. The particular board i rode was smaller than my normal dimensions by a few litres but still felt great underfoot.
I surfed the board in pretty average sydney conditions and the thing i feel the xcore provided for me was every input through the feet i gave the board i felt i would get back and as simon mentioned the flex gives you speed at the end of your turn that you can sometimes struggle to make in average conditions.
Keen to pick up one of these but had just ordered a few new boards before i tried it so getting it past the boss might take a while.
Thanks for the kind words mate, Where did you try one ?
It looks like a good idea to my eyes. I love seeing new inventions especially when they're really just simple solutions noone else has thought of.
There's an element of Michael Mackie/Mitchell Rae tail flex in here but from what I can see not as loose as their carbon flex boards. The angled stringers are good too.
Thanks mate, Great spotting. Mick has been a great source of inspiration.
I have a Simon Spud Nick, which is virtually the same shape as the 5-spark. I'm a big fan of smaller boards being light, have found that with the Spud Nick. All the design elements and foam create a board that is so easy to paddle and fast everywhere.
Surprisingly, to me, it still goes well in sizable surf. The foam is labelled "FX".
If anyone can enlighten me on where FX foam fits into these categories I'll be one little bit more educated. I think they're epoxy glassed also, but will happily stand corrected.
Nick D, thanks for coming on board (ha!) to get info straight from the horses mouth. Should we expect a price premium for boards constructed with these blanks? (sure, yes, a lot)
Definitely interested for the future. As Simon says, most east coast surfing is in 1-4 foot, I have finally got that fact in my head.
It's XF technology and it is EPS foam, epoxy resin.
http://surfboardagency.com/xf-technology/
I'd guess why Simon chose the 5 spark for x-core because spud nick already available in XF?
I agree with Free76 - Misleading choice of words from Simon. Pretty sure FR that you wouldn't ride one of these at Cloudbreak hey?
Hi Guys
Good to see Nick on here explaining and confirming the info.
Thought I would throw my 2 cents in on resins being that we develop them.
We have tried to explain the differences here http://www.sanded.com.au/pages/surfboard-resin-basics as everyone is getting a bit confused on what differences there is and what "epoxy" means.. hope this helps.
Hi Guys
Good to see Nick on here explaining and confirming the info.
Thought I would throw my 2 cents in on resins being that we develop them.
We have tried to explain the differences here http://www.sanded.com.au/pages/surfboard-resin-basics as everyone is getting a bit confused on what differences there is and what "epoxy" means.. hope this helps.
FUCK, don't confuse us with "Vinyl" ester. Fuck, this whole discussion will morph into a debate about LP vs CD vs MP3 sound quality! Stunet, paging Stunet, now THIS is surely a topic you can immerse yourself in while avoid anything surf related ...
So how different are they to a PU board? Lighter, more boyant and skatey?
On both rails near the tail there is (I assume) a carbon patch with four or five strands of carbon on each rail. I assume this is for foot dents ?
Could someone confirm - thanks.
STUNET"yet if he knew the hypercritical amongst us would be analysing every word with clinical intent he may have thought more about it."
LOOK IN THE MIRROW STU before you make grand statements from your pedestal....
Stunet"No, it's not an advertorial - you've got a real thing about that haven't you? - (so do you stu)
and Simon can call it whatever he wants. It all sounds like a whole bunch of nothing to me:"
of course simon is not the manufacturer just a face for it
Again all these people stealing ideas http://www.outerislandsurfboards.com/boards/V2flex.html
Commercialising them to mass production trust babies dont want to work or create just see a market and steal. Sad place we are going as surfers
Whats bing again Stu , how did that advertorial work out.
Sooo annnnggrrryyyy......
Did you find a mirror? looked up hypocrisy in the dictionary? you spat your dummy out of the pram and you cannot get it back
or was it discovering that http://www.outerislandsurfboards.com/boards/V2flex.html
ideas have been stolen and commercialised
Saturday night is alright for fighting hey 303??
Anyway history says Mitchell Ray got the idea from George Greenough.
I'm guessing that these boards do not flex in the tail as per outer islands flex. Totally different material for a start.
I have a couple of boards from Nick with the X-Core /Epoxy construction and it has made this old man(53) with skinny legs happy because surfing is fun,fast and easier. So if Simon Anderson can see value in having some of these types of boards in his product range who are we to tell him otherwise just because he doesn't get over techy in a short interview?
The Flex design with the placement of stringers is just another way of getting around Mitchell Rae from Outer Islands V2 Patent. Nothing new. Mitchell is way ahead in design of the whole lot of them. Been riding his boards for nearly 30 years now and surfing for 45 years. Wouldnt ride anything else. found my maker!!!