The Next Dimension in Surfboards (note: this is not a press release)

Stu Nettle picture
Stu Nettle (stunet)
Design Outline

For all our airs of progression surfing is a backward little sport at times. Fifty years after the world adopted the metric system, surfing still remains in a two-dimensional backwater using feet and inches to measure board length. But before we discuss the merits of metric let's talk about the shortcomings of length as a dimension.

I recently reviewed a Firewire Sweet Potato that measured 5'4" long. In years past a board of such diminutive length would only be found under the feet of the Under-12 club champion. Yet the Sweet Potato floated my 80kg rig, and better still, it paddled like a far longer board. Surfboard design is rapidly evolving and it means length – whether imperial or metric – is not the defining measurement it once was.

In the last ten years the standard high performance shortboard has reduced in length from around 6'2" to about 5'10". Fish and pods and other full-bodied flyers are going shorter still. It's been called the second shortboard revolution, though a more accurate name might be the volume revolution.

The new boardmakers creed is this: reduce the length but retain the volume by pushing foam into new areas of the board - wider noses, broader tails. With that being the case length is no longer an adequate indicator of a boards suitability or performance, yet it is the only measurement of a board's compatibility that we have.

Now, allow me to introduce you to Feral Dave. Dave is the head shaper at Diverse Surfboards on the Gold Coast and he's somewhat of a pioneer, using volume as the primary dimension to measure his surfboards.

Dave always knew that volume was critical though didn't start scribbling the dimension on the stringer till 2004. It was then that he could determine it accurately using APS3000 and Shape3D software. "Volume is the key factor in board suitability," says Dave, "we have always known that, however the software gave us a number to put on it. Having that definition allowed us to refine and design board shapes around it."

"Volume is a great tool to help customers understand that very short boards can still work for them," says Dave before providing a useful example of how it applies. According to Dave, if you ride a standard 6'2" x18 1/2 x 2 1/4 shortboard then you may doubt that a 5'0 x 22 x 2 5/8 mini-Simmons would work. Would a board that short even float you? Yet the 6'2" has around 25 litres of volume and the Simmons 38 litres, the equivalent of a 6'10 x 19 x 2 ¾ which is 22 inches longer.

Of course he's not the only shaper to work with volume but he is the first – or at least one of the first – to inform his customers about volume and how they can incorporate it into their designs. As it currently stands around 70% of Dave's customers talk about volume as well as length when ordering boards.

From an independent shaper to one of the world's largest board companies. Global Surf Industries, or GSI, have added volume to the specifications of their entire 2012 range of surfboards. Following a similar line of thinking as Dave they felt length alone wasn't an adequate measure of a boards suitability. Unlike Dave however, their volume formula is purely informative as GSI don't do customs. What they've allowed customers to do is compare boards with disparate outlines and dimensions by providing them with a base index.

Although volume is a way to compare between shapes Dave is quick to point out that different materials – types of foam and other core materials – will effect the flotation, and hence the veracity of the volume reading. "One thing everyone needs to understand is that the measurement is 'volume displacement'. That is a measurement of the amount of water replaced by the board. Different construction materials will change the floatation."

All of which means you can only make accurate comparisons between boards made of the same materials. Of course, if you understand the properties fair estimations can be made between materials. By way of example Dave says that boards made of Dynocore – his trademarked core material - have around a 10% increase in floatation. Therefore, customers ride boards with around 10% less volume for these.

I asked Dave if surfers should scrap length and simply use volume when ordering boards. His answer reflects the current 'anything goes' state of board manufacture. "A surfboard is much too complex to just be defined by a volume displacement value." While length may provide a very incomplete description of a board so too does volume when used all on it's own. Perhaps a mix of the two measurements would provide a more complete picture?

While I'm contemplating this Dave mentions that another measurement he's working on is surface area, however it's proving rather difficult to calculate. He'll get there though. As he tells me this I consider the vast majority of shapers are still using length – in imperial units, no less – and realise that even if he figures out surface area it's gonna take a long time to catch on.

Diverse Surboards on the web

Comments

feral-dave's picture
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feral-dave Wednesday, 21 Mar 2012 at 11:39pm

Cheers Ben, it was a few months ago when you interviewed me for this story.. i would like to add something..
the comment about working with surface area was something i had played with a little but it was too difficult to narrow things to useful data. the boards angle of attack vs planing, vs all things considered…
the thing i mentioned i was working on with a better chance of useful data and outcome is the Rail volume calculations..
its here if anyone wants to check it out..
http://diversesurf.com.au/board-rail-standardization-measurement/
cheers for you efforts on the story, Dave

Roy Stuart's picture
Roy Stuart's picture
Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 6:42am

Since the article is of a technical nature I have to point out a serious error: it is impossible to achieve a 10% gain in buoyancy by making the core lighter, for any board of typical weight. For example a 30 litre board would need to save 3kg in weight. That is probably close to the total weight of the board.

Perhaps what Dave should have said is that his core material saves 10% in weight, which would only increase buoyancy ( for the example given) by 1%.

Get it right chaps.

the-roller's picture
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the-roller Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 3:43am

good stuff, feral D. your crafts look unreal! thanks for the link.

keep on rockin' the goods, and mining the stoke.

z-man's picture
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z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 4:48am

I've been an advocate of fat since I tipped the scales north of 200lbs.

What's wrong with inches/feet - i refuse to convert.

My tape is bi-lingual tho. Yeah I do know!

I just bought 2 ADDVANCE firewires to FLOAT the BULK I've acquired. Havne't even unwrapped them yet and they're all packed for Bali and Kandui coming to my life soon.

The 8-0 - my design - Becker MAL - will always be the best board ever
Years ago I believed the 'bar of soap' would fly - FINALLY THE SURF WORLD IS CATCHING UP TO ME.

Call me FATS - just not late for CHOW!

single fins rule!!!

Now I've got 10 between two boards - lost fin keys is all I think about - both Firewires have 5 fin set ups

think of all that DRAG!!!

stunet's picture
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stunet Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 6:52am

Have Dave, it was actually me, Stu, that interviewed you and wrote the above article. Heaven forbid you give the boss, Ben, credit for my work!

Z-Man,
Lost fin keys are a worry for me too. I reckon you can never have enough - put one on your key chain, three in your car, one under the door mat, two in the letterbox, one in your wallet etc etc. Guaranteed you'll still get caught short at some stage. Hopefully it's not while Kandui is 6 foot and reeling though...

flow's picture
flow's picture
flow Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 8:46am

I think I have seen the volume of boards on the JS website. Does anyone have the formula? I think anyone who has thought more than 5 minutes about board design would realize total volume is critical.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 9:08am

Flow,
I couldn't find anything on the JS website. In fact, there ain't too many places I've read about surfboard volume, though I'm sure there's a few to be found. Swaylocks forum is where you're most likely to see it discussed. Also, as Dave says, plenty of shapers twigged to the importance of volume years ago but till the technology came along, in the form of shaping software, they had no way of reliably calculating it and hence refining their designs.

Gets yer thinking when you read Dave's calculation - a 5'0" mini-Simmons can have the same volume as a 6'10" gun with standard planshape!

feraldave's picture
feraldave's picture
feraldave Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 9:35am

True, many do understand the importance of Volume.. and its nice to see some now making it public. we found many shapers not wanting to use it as they want to keep the board design part of the dark arts.. there is a few shapers who dont even write dimensions on thier pro team boards so the riders dont get physked out by 16ths etc... enjoy!

z-man's picture
z-man's picture
z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 9:36am

Along with shaping a board with extra thickness to compensate, isn't it about time we demand that our shapers attach a diet outline, along with a list of fresh vegetables to their finished product? Veggies and fruits that can be locally procured, in the hopes that our very next surfboard will be all that much more responsive?

I can't believe how short some boards appear in photos; especially if the photog get lifted up to the crest of the wave and shoots looking down on his subject.

The benefit of these ever shorter boards is the optimum position you get when you are no longer required to be moving your feet along the surfboard to find the proper 'spot'. That you can do any and every -maneuver', and 'manoeuvre'- without moving your feet one iota.

It( the surfboard) appears as an extension like growth that forms a planing surface right out from the bottom of your feet.

I wish I could surf so well! But what I recall is always trying to locate that 'sweet-spot' when preparing to do a sweeping roundhouse from facing the wave and getting set to let your heels exert all the force.

What a great feeling when you pull one off flawlessly!

The very next innovative designs will have molded impressions in the deck of your individual feet with that indention lightly coated with a texture for even more traction.

Like foot impressions left when walking across not totally cooled molten lava! (ouch)

bigtreeman's picture
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bigtreeman Thursday, 20 Mar 2014 at 10:47pm

Sounds like you are ready to try a kneeboard instead of a footboard. You get molded impressions of where your knees have their sweet spot, unless it is a wooden board of course and doesn't have foam to compact.

bornagainst's picture
bornagainst's picture
bornagainst Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 10:08am

You mustn't have looked very hard, Stu. All of the volumes of the all the boards in JS's range are given on his site. See, for example, http://jsindustries.com/surfboards-v2/monsta

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 10:12am

Aaah...well there you go. I was looking for info on volume in the drop down menus. Thanks for the heads-up, BA.

helmet-not-hose's picture
helmet-not-hose's picture
helmet-not-hose Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 10:24am

Strange that Geoeff McCoy doesnt try and take credit. I mean that in a nice sort of way. There was an interview with him on here last week where he appeared angry for his (and Cheynes) lack of due credit. Yet they were riding high volume boards 30 years ago. They may not have had the same aim as Dave Diverse and modern board makers but there was no way cheyne could've ridden 5'7's on Hawaii if it wasn't for the extra McCoy foam. Claim it Geoff!

the-roller's picture
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the-roller Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 11:33am

z-man,

What do we want?

A cure for obesity!

When do we want it?

After dinner.

monk's picture
monk's picture
monk Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 12:28pm

Using volume as the key indicator for board suitability is definately nothing new - ask anyone from Perth who swaps the surfboard for a windsurfer for a couple of surf-starved summer months where the swell flattens and the wind picks up. This has been happening in the pole-dancing industry for as long as i can remember - has always seemed much more logical to me. Good to see the surf industry is starting to move to this method...

benski's picture
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benski Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 1:19pm

I bought a used board from Feral Dave about 6 or 8 months ago. It happens to be a high volume quad he'd shaped but I found the volume measurements quite interesting. I was spinning out how much more volume was in this thing than a standard shorty of the same length. I mean it's obvious to the feel and look but to see the numbers and compare across boards spun me out.

Incientally, the board goes great too.

derra83's picture
derra83's picture
derra83 Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 1:32pm

Speaking of credit, you'd have to think Kelly deserves some of it with his short boards. That Wizard Sleeve of a few years back had a wide nose with volume in unusual areas.

surfstarved's picture
surfstarved's picture
surfstarved Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 1:40pm

I want to give credit to whoever thought of giving the volume measurement in beers. They are, after all, the main contributor to my own ample volume...

deza's picture
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deza Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 1:44pm

I have also realized that volume is the key I am close to 100kg these days and I am riding a 5"10 and it's goes great I have just finished making a 5"8 egg shape only had one surf on it so far but it went great as well.
For me now it's all about volume as I don't like riding longer boards I remember 20 years ago my shaper saying you needed to go longer so I started with my first custom a 5"11 as a 16 yr old by the time I was 19 I was riding 6"5's Im loving this second short board revolution volume is they key for us heavier lads that don't want to go down the mini mal path !!!

fullyloadedman's picture
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fullyloadedman Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 2:14pm

Derra83,

Have to disagree with you there brother, I spent most of my teens riding skinny, thin, little banana boards because of him!!! I'll never forgive you Kelly... you ruined my pro surfing career. ;)

My first memory of someone introducing me to volume was Darren Symes back in the late 90's telling me to stop being stupid and get some volume in my boards! "2 1/4 just wont float you!" he said. Thankfully I listened to him, and have never looked back.

I love riding 100 beer boards, the shorter the better I say!

mundies's picture
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mundies Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 3:03pm

Tuflite / surftech gives volume on some of their boards - Channel Islands and Bushman and maybe others. Very useful info, even though they have more buoyancy per litre than normal PU boards - dont see too many of them around and I've heard guys say they found em too corky but I've had a couple of magic ones, most recently 6'4" JC Peter mel model. Rode slightly anorexic boards for too long, love a bit more float. More waves = more fun. Easier to get barrelled taking off earlier on ledgy waves.

derra83's picture
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derra83 Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 3:12pm

Shit! I fully forgot about Kelly's anorexic toothpick things. I was only a kid myself when he was rocking them so it didn't bother me. I can imagine the chubsters would've done it tough. Kelly has been the devil and the angel when it comes to board design.

100 beer boards!!

zankstar's picture
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zankstar Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 3:21pm

FireWire also display volumes on their website and use a (very) rough tool for an estimate on volume for you based on ability and weight. Another board type where materials used may not allow a great comparison to other manufacturers.

feraldave's picture
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feraldave Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 4:11pm

z-man... your an ideas man...
"The very next innovative designs will have molded impressions in the deck of your individual feet with that indention lightly coated with a texture for even more traction."

have you seen my Corktopâ„¢ Dynocores? they have foot impressions shaped in and wax free cork traction over the whole deck...
http://diversesurf.com.au/dynocore-testing-trip-to-the-solomon-islands-pt1/
there is a few pics there... and here..
http://diversesurf.mybigcommerce.com/62-x-21-x-2-3-4-39-2l-dynocore-cork...
and here.. http://diversesurf.com.au/

dewhurst's picture
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dewhurst Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 4:18pm

Dave, I know it's not about volume but what's with the 'wax free corktop' boards? Can't see any explanation in those links. Is it exposed cork on the deck? Is that what gives grip? Does it repel water?

feraldave's picture
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feraldave Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 7:09pm

I was providing them as visual links. I haven't explained them much as yet. I have been too busy making them and noting the feedback. I will try to get some info down in writing next few days.. Yes they are exposed cork. The cork is laminated to the board in the glassing process.. Several good reasons why i use it... The funniest thing is the application of the cork stops the lightweight boards feeling corky....

z-man's picture
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z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 8:41pm

feraldave - sight unseen I'm sold on cork. 30 years ago I cleaned by board and spray applied a texture that removed the skin from my elbows and rib-cage location where it touched the deck. Not to mention my knee-caps because I'm brutal at bouncing up using my knees as the fulcrum. Needless to say I suffered thru the Costa Rican tropical heat with rug-burn-like-rashes in places yet to have been rug burned. It was a small price to pay, and I quickly disposed of the spray can and it's remaining contents(naturally in an eco-friendly manner)

My impressions on the deck should include(when you develop them because you sound like an innovator) straps that magically secure your foot in said impression on contact(similar to my self-retractable leash inserted within the foam, inserted during construction and fed out with proper tension leaving the strap as the only visible proof that a leash exists)

I really would like to apply cork to my two new ADDVANCE Firewire -5 fins w/added volume like they were thinking about me!

I think you're on to something big.

Remember to patent it! If you can?

z-man's picture
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z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 8:55pm

@roller -you're darn tootin' we do!!!

Back when ephedrin was legal I dropped weight faster than ever. Now I'm lost in a world of drugs that do nothing other than 'claim'.

I know; I have to get off my butt and I will - believe me.

z-man's picture
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z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 8:56pm

@stunet

I'm taking your well advised advice and ordering a dozen fin keys from my local pusher.

jaunkemps's picture
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jaunkemps Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 9:07pm

ok all sounds dandy to me as i've always loved shorter sticks anyways, tell me this my fine salted eggs, when was the last time you heard some wise guy mention the weight of a wettie coming into play with floatation huh ???
Not much if ever have I over heard anyone talking about the wet weight of a wet suit divided by stick volume = dead arm !!!

z-man's picture
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z-man Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 10:02pm

@juankemps

I've often railed at the weight of my wettie. I live in the PacNW of USA- have a RipCurl 5-4-3 w/booties and hoodie too.

I know it tires me out sooner pulling that extra weight and I have compensated when ordering custom boards specifically for that reason.

I didn't always live in the Arctic and I do have boardshorts for happier moments with lesser frequency.

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jaunkemps Thursday, 22 Mar 2012 at 10:50pm

Ouch sounds like full buckets of fun z'ster, so whay we're really banging on about is paddle'O'bility (use that one in ya next scrabble game ;)verses surf'O'bility, the happy combo would be nice to find, hows the sweet potato in anything sucky I'm thinking a little tricky to hold the rail mmm, although there's enough fins the the mother to help it stay in the groove, but to many, too much draw up the face not enough and slippin around a tad maybe ?? Penny for your thought's O wise one FDave ?

z-man's picture
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z-man Friday, 23 Mar 2012 at 1:05am

I hate to admit but I haven't got the tube time/slab time to relate to 'slippin/draws up the face' with/w/o too many/few fins!

I always felt fortunate finding the 'more often than not' - soft tubes of central america, BC. (before crowds)

Not sure 'sweet potato' is? the Mal or ADDVANCE Firewires?

gannet's picture
gannet's picture
gannet Friday, 23 Mar 2012 at 12:12pm

Ok, semi-serious question (Dave?):

I'd always figured short fat boards were great for short fat surfers (Correct me if I'm wrong). What about long streaks like myself? I'm still on relatively long narrow boards, don't seem to have trouble catching waves.

Am I missing something? Has the second shortboard revolution passed me by?

feraldave's picture
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feraldave Friday, 23 Mar 2012 at 4:11pm

ok First mr Juankemps.. Surfing is like balancing butter on the back of a hot spoon.. the smaller the blob of butter the less time you have.. haha.. short round boards want to do short round turns so in pockets doing short arcs is fine.. when the waves get bigger and the pocket is a bigger arc a longer rail line :ie less outline curve is easier to fit into that space.
mr Gannet.. Tall guys have a higher centre of gravity, when you lean forward a lot more weight moves forward. this is again a balancing act.. you could go shorter and wider.. but not as short as an oompah loompah next door.
longer boards in general get picked up by the wave earlier when your paddling for take off. they also require better foot positioning and weight displacement to balance a late take-off.

z-man's picture
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z-man Friday, 23 Mar 2012 at 7:18pm

@feraldave

It's too bad that there aren't easily accessible 'proving grounds' to test-ride the smaller equipment.
If you/test pilot, could use Rincon, CA., -and for example, could actually catch about 3 good waves, it would be easier to assess each new design.

As it is we have to rely on what we witness when someone with more ability than can be known, ride them for us and in our minds say to ourselves - "I can do that" -

I like to be able to get in the wave early, then eject the rear portion of my latest experimental model and am left setting up my first bottom turn as the hidden fins drop into place.

Pity the paddlers that have to dodge the ejected 1st stage.

Retrieve it and repeat.

surferjoe's picture
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surferjoe Saturday, 24 Mar 2012 at 2:43am

@feraldave

I want one

surferjoe's picture
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surferjoe Saturday, 24 Mar 2012 at 2:49am

@feraldave

Please

brutus's picture
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brutus Saturday, 24 Mar 2012 at 11:10am

ahh the ol how many litres does your board displace.

When i first moved to france in the 80's,and started making sailboards,I was constantly asked how mant litres displacement is there in the board? I used to say irrelevent,as they were wave boards and were low volume.

people who were buying bigginner to average flat water sailboards needed to know the flotation,so as they could stand on them and pull up the sail......

years spent in france shaping saibds in metric and s/bds in imperial,even all the young french kids knew/know there s/bd dimensions in imperial....always found this stranger than fiction.....

I think the same thing in s/bds, GSI sell to an average ability market,and the measuring of flotation is relatively important..

for customs I think its less relevant,as to get the volume displacement of a board,I think you still have to immerse the board/shaped blank in water and measure the displacement....this what we did in france..but timees have changed.....?

when shaping a custom....I have to take into account,where and what you surf..as if its someone in Qld,you can make bds thinner,as warmer water,more salt, more flotationless wetsuit than say here in vicco,where we have to take into consideration 3.5 kgs of wetsuits,less flotation in the water.....

so for tuning in a custom for a better than average surfer ....is there are practical way of measuring a shaped blank??

feraldave's picture
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feraldave Saturday, 24 Mar 2012 at 10:45pm

ahhh.. et tu Brutus.. the old bath trick.. lucky for us today the shaping software is pretty damn accurate at giving us our boards volume displacement. and as you said "when shaping a custom....I have to take into account,where and what you surf..". this is pretty standard question of most shapers i know of who deal, day to day with custom orders and customers. pretty handy to have a set of bathroom scales in your order place too.. pretty suprising how many people have little grasp on their current body weight when they wander in off the street to meet their shaper and order a custom. and it makes you wonder about their ability level answers too at times.
i find that putting a measured amount on the feeling people have around the floatation of the board helps get more definition on other aspects of fine tuning customs for guys who can surf quite well.

the-bower's picture
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the-bower Saturday, 24 Mar 2012 at 11:28pm

http://www.surfindustries.com/blog/?p=242

Read about the guy who started the volume calc. Whitney Gould - White page on volume.

Cheers

Kel

feraldave's picture
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feraldave Sunday, 25 Mar 2012 at 9:27am

Hi Mark Kelly.. you forgot to say for you.. "Read about the guy who started the volume calc. Whitney Gould - White page on volume."
as the article said i was writing on my boards since 2004.. i think your business was only just starting around then.. i published the calculations and volume observations in 2006 on my website putting out the common std of .35L per kilo of body weight. this has been the basis of our surf industries publication and verification of volume for surfboards. you will find this well documented around surf forums etc.. you should of taken notice of what i was doing much earlier.. or even gave me publicity for my observations years before. might have sold you a few more boards.. haha

yoohooo's picture
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yoohooo Monday, 26 Mar 2012 at 12:09pm

I don't touch any board that doesn't have a volume measurement, or i can find out how much it is.
its just too much time and money to be wasted, especially for those who do actually pay full price for their boards.
I know exactly what volume i need.

This is something that the windsurfing industry has been doing for over 20 years, and surfing has only just started.

trolleyboy's picture
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trolleyboy Monday, 26 Mar 2012 at 12:28pm

I'd never even considered board volume before but I figure that knowing how many beers my board displaces is a good thing.

zenzen's picture
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zenzen Monday, 2 Apr 2012 at 9:22am

A few year ago I bought a Channel Islands Whip - at 5'10, it was 2 inches shorter than my standard shorty, and I was a little nervous about how it would go. I hadn't ridden a 5'10 since I was 16. But when it went like the clappers and sat beautifully in the wave in small surf I had to look at it again, and quickly realised how well the volume of the board was distributed around the craft. To the casual glance it didn't seem too different but on closer inspection I had to admire the working relationship of Slater and Merrick. It's still one of my favourite boards. Last year I bought a Lost Rocket - 5'7". Again I balked at the length, but what sold me the board was the volume dim, which they list on their site. It has the same amount of foam as a standard 6'0 and sure enough, once it was in the water I had absolutely no problems paddling it or catching waves. Volume has become one of the key determining factors when buying a board for me in the last 5 years or so.

lpt's picture
lpt's picture
lpt Monday, 2 Apr 2012 at 12:32pm

All hail accushaper and associated programs, this has enabled volume to be calc'd easily. Lee Stacey of Stacey surfboards has been on this for a while, and once you've had a couple of boards with volume measurements its starts getting pretty easy to determine what range works for each individual.

Just got to keep in mind that once you have found your range, an allowance or reduction still has to be thought about pending the design for a board.

If 29L works for you in a step up or fish style it will likley be a bit to bulky for your Hi-performance shortie- your not chasing that same absolute volume each and every board order.

nasigoreng's picture
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nasigoreng Thursday, 5 Apr 2012 at 5:15pm

Good article.

Dave, I stumbled across your site and information page on calculating volume after a google search around a year ago. I became interested in volume out of neccessity, a shit run of waves and enjoying my fish more than anything else.
As a 32 year old surfer of around 20 years experience, I'm now riding a 5'5 as my main board. Considering I started on a 6'4 as a skinny grommet, the foam distribution has changed a lot.
I couldn't agree more with making volume a BENCHMARK dimension for board information. It allows us recreational surfers to confidently change shapes and try soemthing quite different, with the knowledge of how short and wide we can go and still paddle etc. I'm sure as a shaper, convincing stubborn surfers to go shorter, wider etc has been a challenge for you?
For me, my wieght hasn't changed for years. I know I need around 24L and I'm fine with that. I can now order any board model or design through a tech savvy shaper like Dave and have the shaper adjust the deisgn to suit my exact wieght! Thanks to technology and mathematics.
If you think about it, in the past we've been just guessing really?
Of course, a good hand shaper can estimate volume quite well anyway. (I can hear the older crew cursing machines right now). But for my money I'm happy to have things measured accuratley and produced using modern technology, as we do in every other aspect of our lives.
Good work Dave.

batfink_and_karate's picture
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batfink_and_karate Thursday, 5 Apr 2012 at 9:30pm

Very interesting, but intelligent surfers with no shaping background worked out a decade and more ago that volume was a critical issue, and that although it may not have been fashionable at the time, that volume was instrumental in determining paddling qualities.

However length will always be critical to other ride qualities, try riding a bumpy face with a 5'4'' and it will ride like a 5'4'', regardless of volume.

And when will we start to get measurements from the tail to the point at which the nose is purely aesthetic rather than functional. Rounded noses with more volume are obvious improvements that can be made to the traditional shortboard design. The measure of the length of the board from tail to the point where the nose rises and rarely touches water in less than critical manoeuvres is a more functional indicator than actual board length, but of course that would change according to weight, and would make surfers actually think about critical issues rather than be sheep following a simple length and width measurement.

And Stu - Floatation - Floatation?????????????????

Come in Stu, shame on you. Wikipedia may suggest that floatation is OK, but it's flotation my boy, flotation! :-)

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stunet Friday, 6 Apr 2012 at 9:37am

B&F,

'Floatation' is the historical spelling and I'm big on tradition. Therefore, floatation it is. Next you'll be telling me it's 'yr', '2morrow' and 'm8'. Tsk tsk...

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 6:47am

The statement below is incorrect.

"All of which means you can only make accurate comparisons between boards made of the same materials."

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 6:55am

Also the statement that "surfing still remains in a two-dimensional backwater using feet and inches to measure board length" is ridiculous, board length is one dimensional whether measured in metric or imperial.

Furthermore, some of us realise that quoting board length in imperial does not prevent us measuring volume in metric. I always use both metric and imperial.

The 'He did it first' claim is pretty silly too, we've been measuring volume since 1996.

stunet's picture
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stunet Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 9:01am

Roy Stuart wrote:

Also the statement that "surfing still remains in a two-dimensional backwater using feet and inches to measure board length" is ridiculous, board length is one dimensional whether measured in metric or imperial.

The folly of people who takes things literally: figurative speech passes right over their heads.

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 9:27am

Hi Stu it's a technical article, so should say what it means... if you meant to say something else 'figuratively' then please tell us what it is... what exactly is the issue with imperial measurements which you are trying to communicate?

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stunet Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 10:33am

Roy,

There is no issue with imperial or metric, the issue is with the use of length as a surfboard's defining measurement. That was the metric used for many, many years (in fact still is in some quarters) so the quip about 'two-dimensional' was used to express how unsatisfactory it is as opposed to volume.

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 10:43am

Thanks Stu.

Volume is just as unsatisfactory on its own, and I don't see why length measuring and volume measuring are 'opposed' to each other. Clearly surfboard designers use all surfboard parameters and have been including volume when designing e even when it wasn't measured formally. Measuring it correctly has been a big advancement though I agree. I think that you need a technical sub editor! ;)

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 9:33am

By the way stu this is impossible:

" By way of example Dave says that boards made of Dynocore – his trademarked core material - have around a 10% increase in floatation. Therefore, customers ride boards with around 10% less volume for these.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 7:15am

roy, any feedback from buyers of your 3d printed fins ?
would they work on any of the so called summer grovellor pu surfboard in a tri or quad set up ?
do you talk with g greenough re designs and fin foils ?

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Roy Stuart Tuesday, 7 Jan 2014 at 8:15am

Hi udo, Warp Drive fins have been available for only a week and are selling fast, the first buyers will be receiving theirs about now, so it's a little too early for feedback.

At present the fins are all double foiled and tabbed for a central chinook single fin box, but we'll be adding asymmetrically foiled side fin versions soon, for probox, lokbox and futures boxes, as well as for our new Matrix box which is based on the chinook box.

Sizes are 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 and 9.0 inch, so will suit a wide variety of centre fin applications.

If you'd like a set sized and tabbed for a quad or thruster then please let me know, we can have them ready within a week, in custom sizes and foils.

Thanks for asking.

The fins can be bought here: https://www.facebook.com/warpdrivefins/app_122306947865889

OHV500's picture
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OHV500 Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:05pm

Maurice Cole has been banging on about volume for years. Maybe people should check out his range of boards - absolutely awesome.

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velocityjohnno Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 8:26am

The irony is, now that surfers have (re)"discovered" volume, we tend back toward volumes seen in the late 1970s. Board lengths were down then too, take a look at classic twin fins for sale and you will see quite a few in the 5'8 x 20" range.

In fact, a decade before this there were the Bunker Spreckles 5'5" little boards, comprehensively blown away by Rolf Aurness at Bells in 1970, sending boards longer until Cheyne and Geoff started putting triple flyers in them...

And long before that the alaia/olo split.

Boards went anorexic in the early 1990's, put on length to compensate and it took my mates 15 years of unsuitable paddle to realise this was not the best for them.

What has changed is the ability to measure volume through improved technology. Whether in Imperial or metric, having that extra dimension is a real help for paying retail customers. For those of us who still carve foam by hand, this can help:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/calculating-board-volume-dummies

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kerry1 Tuesday, 11 Feb 2014 at 11:54am

Boy if you guys want to talk to one master on volume contact Mitchell Rae from Outer Island surfboards. No machines just all handcrafted boards. Here is a letter to Mitchell from Albe Falzon.
Hi Mitchell,
Hope you are getting a few big ones mate......such a perfect day....sorry that you are in the pit again......if surfers only appreciated how you've carved your life out to please them - ungrateful bunch - well not all of them. I'm sure you probably have more good ones on your books than anyone.....certainly those that manage to find their way into your creative bubble will never be disappointed and never leave........I don't want to piss in your pocket too much - rather see you in one......especially one of those magnificent beauties at Sanur......the 7'2'' you made me is jut perfect for that wave......when I took the drop on that flawless cylinder last time around in Bali - the board just slipped in - it was like "old home week". As soon as the waves get to that level your boards come into their own......often you just have to let go and the spear will do the rest.....i remember thinking on that Sanur wave - which is something on that long perfect wall you get time to do - "this is the best wave I've had since the last one i surfed here". the board was just peaking - flying. the wave was so perfect that i wanted it to last forever. guess that's where i fucked up.....had the little voice inside saying "you better get out of this" and caught in the dream state ( again ) and blissed in the experience i stayed there and got bounced off the reef as you do now and then ( it humbles you )......and there i will stay.....thanks to you......some people build up stock options or invest in property .....the quiver you have made for me goes way beyond that....and thanking you a thousand times a thousand would never be enough.......

love you mate....

Albe

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tomcleland Saturday, 15 Mar 2014 at 9:51am

Hey Dave,
I know I'm entering this conversation late in the piece but how much or does rocker and bottom contour effect performance? There seems to be so many variables to get it right, does this conversation also lend itself to fin design?