The Greenough Factor - culling the point

spuddyjack's picture
spuddyjack started the topic in Monday, 9 Jul 2018 at 1:58pm

In Andrew Crockett's interview with George Greenough in Switchfoot (Volume 2 - p.36) the issue of dangers associated with pointy nose surfboards and the question they be banned in future is raised.

Greenough's response:
"It certainly does not make the board work better, in fact it makes the board not perform as good as if it was rounded off. Using a pointed nose increases wind resistance and swing weight. Most pointed nose boards could lose 2-3 inches by cutting it off. This would give you a shorter board that would fit better in tight spots. I am very surprised that there haven't been more lawsuits from the injuries involving the pointy nose surfboard. It serves no function except to look cool and be used as an offensive weapon against other people."

Keen to hear what other surfers/designers have to say. Not trying to start a vitriolic polemic, just interested in the design principles and issues around safety per se.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 9 Jul 2018 at 6:56pm

I doubt a law suit would go anywhere...a lawsuit on who ?
The Boardrider or Board Manufacturer?
Whaaat you out there.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 7:20am

It's the same theory Tomos work on, IMHO not better just different.

BTW. Nose guards were popular in the 90,s as were Gath helmets, both make sense.

Ada gula, ada semut!

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 7:37am

Hey Spuddy, way back when Switchfoot 2 came out I ran a few articles on here, one of them by Chris Brock who talked about his 'Jumping Beans', short round nose boards he made before even Tomo was doing it. 

I recall there being a lot of remonstrations to sharp nose boards, however ten years later what are we all riding? Nose shape seems to be a thing that comes and goes, sometimes propelled by safety reasons but more so by the whims of fashion. We're fickle bastards.

Pretty sure no lawsuit would ever get up. I resarched this with legropes a few years back, spoke to the suits from Slater Gordon etc, and I reckon surfboard noses would fall in the same basket of personal repsonsibility i.s surfing is an inherently dangerous activity so you accept that before you paddle out.

Until the next time fashion dictates round noses are cool, then it's all personal choice.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 10:29am

Somebody needs to wise Boeing up then that all their fighter jet noses should be rounded, rather than pointy, to reduce wind resistance! Seriously though, even if that statement made sense, surfers don't go fast enough for this to be an issue. The only time I have ever experienced sensible wind resistance on a surfboard (along with everyone else) is during takeoffs or driving down the face with stiff offshore winds blowing up the face (and this is something different altogether). In terms of swing weight, I would have thought that this is both desirable and undesirable depending on the respective surfers' style of surfing and how they want their board to perform through turns. I personally think swing weight and a surfboards moment of inertia are frontier components of surfboard design that very few are exploring at present.

Island Bay's picture
Island Bay's picture
Island Bay commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 10:48am

I think the wind resistance GG was referring to is from the wind blowing up the face of the wave. This would impact the bottom side of the nose pretty much straight on, so there would be some resistance.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 10:56am

What Ryan Burchs theory i wonder with the Evil Fork noses ?

ljkarma's picture
ljkarma's picture
ljkarma commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 1:10pm

One should be cautious when 'guessing' if a lawsuit is a possibility in the case of surfing accidents/injuries. As ignorance is no defence neither is the "inherently dangerous activity" cry as each individual set of circumstances including the cause, the severity and possible mitigation all have to be considered.
There have been cases/settlements ( USA from memory) that have set a precedence in regard to pointed noses and sharp fins. Most surfers dismissed the claims as a joke at the time, but the outcomes where far from a joke and serious money and peoples businesses were shat down. The bigger the target the more chance of a lawsuit.
I wonder that if one was to approach Slater and Gordon to as a result of being injured surfing they might just give a different opinion to that Stu received as to your ability to sue.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 1:31pm

Does anybody know what the outcome of this one was?

http://www.espn.com/action/surfing/story/_/id/7503121/channel-islands-su...

ljkarma's picture
ljkarma's picture
ljkarma commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 2:14pm

rumour was a juicy 4 figure payout by at least FCS to keep the lid on pandoras box

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 2:20pm

"I wonder that if one was to approach Slater and Gordon to as a result of being injured surfing they might just give a different opinion to that Stu received as to your ability to sue."

Yep, legal theory and legal practice are two connected yet separate matters. 

spuddyjack's picture
spuddyjack's picture
spuddyjack commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 3:59pm

Thanks for some thoughtful comments on the topic. The legal issues around liability remain uncertain but the injury risk factor is increasing year on year with more getting into surfing. Watched untold near misses at Currumbin Alley today with plenty of cocky cowboy disregard for safety and respect on display. Given the crowding in such areas, Gath helmets are probably not a bad idea, but hard core crew would see this as nanny state intervention and decidedly uncool. I can still get plenty of stoke from a round fronted Grant Miller board that I hope is a tamer beast when it comes to reducing risk in crowded settings.

Stay salty

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 4:11pm

I recently digitised footage of the night surfing from the '86 Beaurepaires and Jim Banks was riding a no nose board.

Pretty sweet li'l clip too: Rolling Stones playing 'Undercover of the Night', Pete Towned both frothing and gushing ("It's the best night of my life!"), and Joey Buran doing multiple 360s on one wave.

spuddyjack's picture
spuddyjack's picture
spuddyjack commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 4:28pm

Stu,
Where/when can we view that footage?

Stay salty

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 10 Jul 2018 at 5:06pm

Ha ha...it'll surface on here soon enough.

It's good.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Wednesday, 11 Jul 2018 at 9:24pm

Webbies got a strange Nose shape up on his insta

ljkarma's picture
ljkarma's picture
ljkarma commented Thursday, 12 Jul 2018 at 8:42am

Udo, the drug squad are investigating that lead!

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