Politics of the Hawaiian Islands

Rick Rasmussen, now there's a name I haven't come across in years. Shot dead at a young age in a drug deal in New York as I remember!

Groundswell, last time I went there was August stayed in Waikiki and surfed Queens on a hired log every day, had a ball.

I've looked for a copy of sea of darkness everywhere but it's impossible to find. Some classic tails in that doco.

There's a coincidence carpetman, I just picked up a copy of it yesterday arvo from a mate, watched the first 5 minutes looks quite interesting.

Phil Jarratt wrote:

Regardless of his ethnic origins, Eddie Rothman was not there because his incarnation as a Hawaiian elder had not yet been invented.

Nice and dry, Phil. Nice and dry. :)

The released version of Sea of Darkness has been heavily edited for legal reasons.
The original, unedited version has only been screened a handful of times in cinemas.

The version I have has "property of zero minus productions" embedded across the screen, so I am hoping it's the unedited version.

crust, will post you $20 for a copy if its the ridgy didge version.

udo wrote:

crust, will post you $20 for a copy if its the ridgy didge version.

Same as above Crust, this could be a tidy little enterprise!

'Maverick’s legend Peter Mel admits to his own debilitating struggle with ice which he feels was partly enabled by the surf communities reluctance to discuss drug issues. “No one in the surf media wants to touch it,” Mel is quoted. “I’m embarrassed by the things I did. So embarrassed I don’t want to talk about it. But what’s the cure? To communicate about it.”'

Ridgy didge version? No such thing will ever, ever exsist udo. One thing I learned about the shit loads of users of all those drugs, the psychostimulants, is that the users are never the same, are permanently changed. That 'I'm a bad arse, entreprenerial, arse burning fucker, the truth', always is in there somewhere. Permanently displacing the truth. As Mel said, the actual truth is too fucked to ever be told. When I was in Ballina an epidemic hit. Hard arse 'boys' everywhere. Makes them run really fast too. It came to a head when a local guy was set upon by a pack of 'boys' with golf clubs walking home. He thought it was some friends pulling over for a chat, and got smashed in the face with a golf club, and they pounded him with golf clubs off their trees. My friend that helped Carrol stayed with me up there, and started trying to help all these local 'legends' that sought him out. It used to dumbfound me that a guy so brilliant could be so gullible. I used to tell him it was ludicrous writing out all these programs and diets for a bunch of coke and ice addicts, and was dumbfounded that he hadn't learned from his previous encounters with the same thing, and to just fuck them off. It all ate him up in the end. The 'big boys'. Fuckin' rippers, write a novel about em'.

Also, for those interested... panel discussion revolving around the movie, it's characters & stories;

Nobody wants to talk a about the elephant in the room?
Your talking about drugs and the north shore/hawaii.
A.I. the islands/worlds best contest surfer is tragically lost...

Is the surf industry different from any other in it's drug culture? Entertainment industry (film, tv and music) is clearly drug addled. The stories from the finance industry are coke heavy, no?

I'm not talking about young kids who get mixed up but happen to surf, I'm talking about industry figures and it's media. It's pretty much everywhere in the upper levels of society that I don't think the surf industry could be that much different. But I say all that as a total outsider. I have no idea myself, just the feeling I have. They're everywhere so why should we expect the surf industry to be any different?

And to be clear, I'm not condoning or condemning, just wondering.

Nah I don't think the surf industry is any different to any other industries Benski. It's just that surfing's 'image' has been so heavily manufactured over the last few decades that the use of narcotics seems to be a big surprise to many people.

Exactly.

The surfing culture- counter-culture- of the mid to late sixties and seventies was clearly and well documentedly drug addled. That doesn't ipso facto make drugs part of the surfing DNA but it was deeply ingrained at a critical time in it's history when the surf media was created and the whole commercial apparatus which sprung up around surfing was born.
Pro surfing's birth created the imperative to clean up that image of surfing and surfers as drug fcuked dole bludgers to appeal to mainstream money.
Hence, not so much a conspiracy, as a general atmosphere of secrecy, of creating this new anodyne reality permeated the entire machine from pros to surf media. It was necessary. As the surf media became ever more tightly intertwined with the surf industry that became ever more ingrained. The surf media became a defacto marketing arm for the surf industry and cheerleader for prosurfing.
The well trod career path for surf journalists was straight into the marketing departments of the surf industry, a job they had moreorless been performing anyway.

Yeah for sure. I'm just surprised people are surprised.

But it does explain why bodhi won the fisticuffs against warchild in point break. He was the clean living pure surfer. The real one.

But then he turned out to be the one robbing banks.

Woah.

There are many varying degrees of people; Hawaiian, local, philpino, portagee,haole and tourist in the islands and it is very easy to talk shit about what you would and would not do if and when you go to Hawaii. Be a quiet Haole and stay out of the scene / politics when visiting there, don,t drop in (or take off behind some people) and you should be fine, but always remember it is a very small place to fuck up with someone, particularly "Uncle Eddie", even from the relative safety of you keyboard here in Australia.

mikehunt207 wrote:

There are many varying degrees of people; Hawaiian, local, philpino, portagee,haole and tourist in the islands and it is very easy to talk shit about what you would and would not do if and when you go to Hawaii. Be a quiet Haole and stay out of the scene / politics when visiting there, don,t drop in (or take off behind some people) and you should be fine, but always remember it is a very small place to fuck up with someone, particularly "Uncle Eddie", even from the relative safety of you keyboard here in Australia.

I think that last sentence explains why the truth rarely gets told. If you are dealing with people who are known not only for making intimidating threats, but also carrying them out, silence is the safest way to go, with some good old fashioned arse licking thrown in just to make sure. And that has been just as true of our home grown thugs as the Hawaiian variety.

Politics, Drugs and Alcohol, some of man's many foes.

King hitting or hitting people for no real apparent reason is a weak act in my eyes.

A young bloke had to be cut off from life support by his parents the other day, king hit by a young psycho for no reason.

Unfortunately those young psychos become old psychos when allowed to have their way when young.

Thats a good point Welly, the discussion tends to focus on illegal recreational drugs and there is little point trying to deny that it hasnt been a destructive part of surf culture.

I worked for sometime in elite sports and can say that there is little to set surfing apart from other sports, drug abuse isnt confined to surfing and surfing wouldnt be highlighted as a sport with a particular problem. Cycling is well known for its rampant drug use the difference being that it has mostly been performance enhancing drugs which dont have the same stigma as illegal recreational drugs but there have been dozens of arrests and bans placed on athletes and coaches and other staff for using and distributing these drugs. My time at the Australian institute of Sport bought me into contact with many olympic stars who routinely were getting wasted on anything and everything. Two are now doing prison time for dealing.

Alcohol use is rampant across most sports and has caused similar destruction as has the drug use seen in surfing. The difference being alcohol is widely accepted being a legal drug, however its use and promotion by mainstream sports such as footy and cricket perpetuate the cultural acceptance of alcohol abuse and the problems it creates in society as you mentioned Welly.

Its heartbreaking to hear of stories like the young kid who lost his life after a night out on the town, I cant imagine anything worse than getting a call from the coppers to say that my daughter/son had been comatose/knocked out/killed simply going out for the night. The sad thing is no one wants to talk about the culture of alcohol fuelled violence. Its interesting to compare the Australian Cricket teams response to Glen McGrath's wife dying of cancer and David Hooks dying from a king hit out on the piss, one generates a massive campaign the other doesnt rate a mention??

In regards to the king hits and pissy violence, Danny Green has made a bold statement with his response to the thugs that perpetrate such violence.

How great is Danny Green, putting his own money up to produce an anti-violence ad, my hats off to him for sure. Ill be interested to hear if anything comes out of other sporting arena's, id be surprised to hear from footy or cricket due to the sponsorship dollars despite the fact that both sports have been directly impacted by alcohol violence. Just this week another footy player was jailed for two years for punching someone to the ground and stomping on their head. Sadly Danny's ad does not address the problem of alcohol consumption and focusses on the violence, suggesting that people think twice before they lash out at somebody. The problem as we all know is that alcohol effects your judgement and the violence often occurs because people are too affected to make good judgements, to think twice so to speak.

trippergreenfeet wrote:

Unfortunately those young psychos become old psychos when allowed to have their way when young.

That is so true, I so appreciate my upbringing as a young fella.

Yeah Silicun, What I was trying to get across from referring to king hits was at the start of the thread, Rabbit getting punched, Eddie Rothman punching the Billabong Exc. Only takes one and theres someones life gone.
Alcohol defiantly fuels the fire in some of those occasions, brings back memories of getting king hit at the Marlin Hotel, Ulladullah, totally knocked out, gone. Some guy actually died not long before my incident there.
Maybe this is why Danny Green is doing his thing for anti-violence..? A: He knows what it is like to get your jaw shuffled side ways with a good blow, or B: He might be feeling guilty of these actions before...?

Politicians ? Well they are always going blow to blow, seen some funny footage from Russia I think ,where many members of the cabinet were brawling, Politicians..?

As for drugs, drugs have been used in all cultures and species for thousands of years, the indigenous people mainly for shamanic or similar reasons (DMT based), my Jack Russell who licks cane toads and starts tripping ( I was later told by our vet ), I could never figure out why he ran round the lounge a thousand miles an hour, frothing at the mouth. Even dolphins eating some kind of fish....? which they have finally discovered.
The difference now days is money and greed, greed can be lots of things, as you mentioned Silicun cycling and olympics which bears the winning streak in someone ? The greedy human mind that loves stepping away from reality and ends up in a heap in the gutter.
The Human Race......! These attributes may coincide with the politics in the Hawaiian Islands !

Couldnt agree with you more. To expound on your views of greed IMO this comes from the pervasiveness of competition in western society. It is seen as a most desirable trait to be competitive, to keep up with the Joneses, its something that gets drilled into us all through our lives from when we are children, through school and through our working and personal lives - to get ahead. Some societies dont exist like this, there is more emphasis put on sharing and there is no place for greed. In the question of this post I would put the imposition of western culture ahead of drug use as a cause of both the drug use and the antagonism, as many rivers points out the, 'obvious local dispossession/poor economic advancement with the glossy tourist babble.' illustrates the inequities that this imposition has created, couple that with a culture that says you are worthless unless you have the condo, the fourby or whatever and there is gonna be antagonism.

Don't know if you can pin competitiveness on western society.

Neanderthal and cro-magnon man competed for scarce resources.

Sure, hunter gatherer society had to evolve moreorless egalitarian structure to deal with the hard problem of hunting large predators but by the time agriculture happened in the Fertile Crescent it was back to hoarding and warring tribes/states.

Ive always been curious about how the west coast crew have been lambasted in the aussie surf media, while the hawaiian localism was sort of dressed up as a meritorious crusade. Even going back to when one of my favourite aussie surfers, Micky Campbell stood up to A.I when Irons was in full wanker mode and snotted him in the U.S. Do you reckon he was hassled and intimidated in Hawaii when his run at a world title was going down to pipeline? Of course the weak ass aussie surf media keep the glowing accolades of A.I and never really backed our fella. Could you get any more aussie than a ginger from Macquarie? The other weak bullshit I see is how we openly attack christian religion ( sometimes very warranted? But tiptoe around the muslim evils/devils. Religion has never been more than the CCTV of medieval times. The real issue today is the class war, the moneyed up and those that work to keep the rich rich. while we are all bogged down in stupid racist mudslinging and religious differences, the black rich hammer the blacks as much as the white rich take everything from everyone as well. We will get our comeuppance very soon from the asian billionares, and I dont reckon the russion oligarches are gonna pull any punches either. In terms of the drug issue, the real elephant is the room is the big pharma, doping up society with unnecessary drugs, you only have to look at what they are doing to the oldies and all the deaths from adverse reactions and improper dosing to all ages society. but again we champion the medical brigade and attack easy targets like the recreational user. why is ice so prevalent? is it because ephedrine is shepherded into out society because its in so many of our prescribed life shortening medical pills? we say we have won the war on heroin yet opioid addiction is higher than it has ever been, the source being the painkillers dealt out in pharmacies? the evil weed being stamped out yet anti anxiety pills are in the cupboards of many family homes and offices in australia. some have well paid lobby groups, with the legal system protecting the powerful ( developers, pharma, etc) and filling up our privatised prison systems with those that stand their ground or choose their own way. The everyday man caught in in the minutiae of life, paying bills, trying to get the best insurance, best phone plan, get the kids to a good school, and mums reading new idea about celebrity breakups and cellulite, how to put makeup on to be an acceptable friend at the local cafe. We have our sights aimed so low..................I think Tools line from Aenima sums it up for me...'dumbfounded dipshits'

Nice rant hem-street! I think you nearly have everything covered… i agree with every word. Tool have summed it up about 100 times over… should be more gems in the new album when it comes out in the next century… though Maynard may be too content these days to stay at his biting best.

Money is king. There is no transparency in any industry where money is the goal as image needs to be protected at all costs. This leads to a lack of transparency and bullshit spin on all fronts. The west coast crew are lambasted because no one is making money from their image. It is just locals that work and surf and live. The image of the north shore is worth too much. Arses must be both licked and shielded. It will only get worse with Zosea as they have a lot of mula riding on their 'investment'.

.......I always loved Tool for quoting Nietzcshe in a song

".....if consequences dictate a course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught!" Jerk Off

This is a good summary too.

No worries many -rivers. I think grug probably hit the nail on the head, money is influence and somehow if you lick nuts long enough you might be able to hang with the bruddahs........ I don't mid localism done well, ie, to bring some sense of order or discipline if you will. But when it is blatant harassment and intimidation it is ruinous. I surfed an epic little out of the way spot a couple of days ago, you couldnt find a better looking place and the waves were 8/10. But there were crew just arse dumping all over the place, not even being discreet and burying it all. It looked like a soweto refugee camp in one of the most pristine places on earth. A booger taking long walled set waves going straight and doing those silly belly spins...........amongst all that one of the semi local guys paddled inside me for the 5th time. As a good set wave came in he told me it was my turn......first time that's ever happened to me anywhere and I went in on a sick one. A surfing experience dichotomy that day. I guess respect for the environment and quietly respecting the crew would make things a bit easier all round. I am prejudiced on the boogers though........I dont get those things unless you are surfing boomer beach or waimea shorey . Maybe I need to open the mind a bit...but geez it seems like a waste of a good wave sometimes.
Re tool, we do need to hear from those fellas again, Maynard did a bit with Puscifer but it was a pretty onshore affair that one.
USA's own Rod Cunthorpe......ha. Wheres Goodvibes when you need him.

I think everybody overlooks the point that Surfing is Anarchy.....there are no written or enforcable rules,except what the resident/local surfers say and do!

Every surfspot is different because of the people who claim to be locals or whatevers!

Hawaii has had such a radical history from the days of the wild west when violence reigned,drugs were prolific,dealers were vying for their markets,Hawaiins were invaded by mainlanders/Brazilians/Australians all claiming waves and setting up their respective cultural embassies on the North Shore.

the same has happened at surf spots all over the world..South America is a classic where some countires surf spots are run by Seppos.......or Brazilians...

So the core problem seems to be that surfing is anarchy...survival of the fittest......and all the asociated problems that go with a lawless sport/art form.

Brutus, as an anarchist, I would like to point out that Anarchy is not the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers, the absence of government. It is the way most of us prefer to lead our lives. Surfing is anarchical, as there is no hierarchical, armed group forcing you to follow their particular rules but there are rules. The great majority of surfers adhere to the unwritten rules in order to ensure a pleasant experience for everyone, no police, no fines, no guns, no jail. The core problem is not that surfing is anarchy, that is one of the best things about it, the problem is that some surfers are less socialised than others.

Great post Dellabeach, and good wave of putting it.

This thread has been insightful, some great input and thoughtful conversation.

I think surfers are actually highly socially skilled. In my experience true violence is very rare and while heated verbal exchanges occur more often they are highly ritualised and act as ways of defusing tension. If you put that into the context of a highly competitive sport dominated by younger males in which there are very often too few waves to go around, I think it is a real cultural achievement, which is why we continually need to maintain the line on violence. The local standard is pretty clear, pull that shit and you are persona non grata with all that applies in terms of wave count. One of my proudest moments was when some meathead grabbed one of the younger crew and tried to hold his head under water. He had a local on each arm in about 5s. He then said " So that's how it is round here, one in all in? " about ten of us looked around at each other and nodded our heads in unison. He wasn't threatened, it was just made absolutely clear that we weren't having that crap.

blindboy wrote:

I think surfers are actually highly socially skilled. In my experience true violence is very rare and while heated verbal exchanges occur more often they are highly ritualised and act as ways of defusing tension. ... One of my proudest moments was when some meathead grabbed one of the younger crew and tried to hold his head under water. He had a local on each arm in about 5s. He then said " So that's how it is round here, one in all in? " about ten of us looked around at each other and nodded our heads in unison. He wasn't threatened, it was just made absolutely clear that we weren't having that crap.

This happened at Blacks, right? I think I know the bloke you're describing.

Some cocky little 49kg pipsqueak probably paddled inside and snaked him on a 2 footer

"The great majority of surfers adhere to the unwritten rules in order to ensure a pleasant experience for everyone, no police, no fines, no guns, no jail."
excellent..................or, if we have guns in society, we all have them........................ govts are the biggest killers on the planet, always have been, because they can I suppose.............

Was interested to know if anyone who has visited the North Shore witnessed much in the way of Hawaiian v Hawaiian smack downs? For locals i imagine it would be easier to tolerate the bully boys regulating the line ups in such an intense and crowded area, if their actions made it easier for you to get a wave. The fact that the most notorious offenders seem to be blow ins from Kauai or Philadelphia also gives a degree of separation.

' He had a local on each arm in about 5s'

Actually, to set the record straight, its usually 2 or 3 locals on each arm, if I'm doing bicep curls, but 10 or so an arm for deadlifts and squats.

Camster, could you verify that please...

Brutus, as an anarchist, I would like to point out that Anarchy is not the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers, the absence of government. It is the way most of us prefer to lead our lives. Surfing is anarchical, as there is no hierarchical, armed group forcing you to follow their particular rules but there are rules. The great majority of surfers adhere to the unwritten rules in order to ensure a pleasant experience for everyone, no police, no fines, no guns, no jail. The core problem is not that surfing is anarchy, that is one of the best things about it, the problem is that some surfers are less socialised than others.

Hi Dellabeach

As there are various definitions of Anarchy,the one I am using is ," a society without publicly enforced Government,which can mean political disorder or lawlessness."

There are couple of ways you can interpret this......that there are are publicly enforced groups who control the surf as in various surf breaks around the world...so this is not anarchy but.......what we are discussing here the boys from Hawaii controlling their surf....which seems fair enough..

or that anarchy is a society where we all co-exist without any authority..........so we would all like to think that anarchy in surfing would be great.....if we all were anarchists...

so I did misuse the term anarchy in describing surfing as a whole,as its pretty obvious that there is a loose system of publicly enforced rules by there being locals...

so we here in Australia would find it hard to criticize Hawaii's system...it is what it is ..its their way of life like it or not.....
So thanx Dellabeach...you have clarified something for me I have been wrestling with for years.......ahhh ain't education wonderful......

Brutus I am all for locals exerting some control over their home breaks but I think the line has to be drawn at violence. Locals can exert their control by shaming poor behaviour, acting to limit the waves of those who indulge in it and by defusing conflicts with humour. I know that the consequences of bad behaviour in heavy waves can be life threatening and I understand that from time to time people may lose their cool but that is very different to a clear pattern of intimidation based on the threat of violence. Surfing can be anarchic, it used to be almost Hobbesian, the war of all against all, but in my experience we have never tolerated outright thuggery. I would like to think that is still true.

What are you talking about Blindboy?

What this royal "we".

It's always been tolerated.

Thats why this thread exists.

Don't mistake your civilised corner of the world for the whole.

Well I get around a bit freeride, up and down the NSW coast, Victoria recently, various parts of Indonesia and Japan in the last few years, maybe I'm just lucky but I am happy to apply the "we" , royal or otherwise, to that vast majority of surfers who go about their business peaceably and expect others to do the same.

yeah blindboy I agree in theory,but depending on where you surf...eg Hawaii has had a history on violence since the Hawaiian Island were settled...throw in being disposed of their lands,guns as prevalent as we have screwdrivers,a drug culture that was gang orientated ,a surf destination that has been overrun by everybody else but Hawaiians.....maybe there are is a sense of dispossession,frustration.........and the threat of violence has reared its ugly head.....

I have seen first hand these last 2 winters in Hawaii some of the kooks in the water being so dangerous...last year one of my best friends Eric Arakawa,was duck diving at Lanikea,when an out of control longboarder broke his leg in 3 pieces....the guy was so out of his surfing ability zone...ahhhhh

I offer the Hawaiian observations as merely that and don't condone violence!!

Humanity is a violent species BB. None of the things surrounding you and which you take entirely for granted are free from that human stain. The computer you typed on, for example.
Surfing is no different.
Civilisation may have laid on a slightly thicker veneer since Leviathan (debatable) but the cosmic drama continues unabated.
Was there sanction when Fast Eddie slugged Stapleburg? Or any of the other countless violent incidents in Hawaii?
No. Ergo it is tolerated .
Yes, the vast majority are peaceable but they turn a blind eye when the local enforcer/pyscho gets rough.
I think on the east coast of Aus, surfing has become less violent relative to the mainstream culture, which has become infatuated with steroids and MMA. Also the hot kids want to be sponsored so they have an image to uphold.
There's still a few hardheads around here though who'll punch on and when they do there ain't no-one local calling the cops on them.