Problems with Indo
Yeah, you might be right Salt. Reception could be a little frosty after the last month or so regarding spying, refugees etc.
Jakarta post front page, the wire tapping was not smart, not clever
it was a unfriendly thing to do...
Unfortunately the (alleged) journalists at the Jakarta Post must still under the impression that if the say or ask anything negative against their own government they will be dragged off and beaten by the armed forces (police or army), so in turn have become the lap dogs of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (another in a long line of slimy whining Indo Presidents). They are quite happy to sink the boot into Australia at every possible occasion (actually that makes them similar to quite a few Australian journalists who bag Australian governments and won't question Indonesia). One wishes that one of jounalists would have the guts to ask if the Indo Government are at the very least spying on Austalia (yes), and if the had the opportunity to bug our Prime Ministers phone would they (you bet they would). I openly throw my support behind our Australian Spy network (internal and external), especially having one of the most corrupt regimes on our door-step.
I agree with you.
Funny how not one peep out of the Australian media in regards to the Indonesians spying on Australia.
Maybe because my claims can't be substantiated.
Theirs can.
Right you are again big brother. Post has been duly edited.
How is the snow over there? Looking like a good season coming up? Unfortunately holidays unlikely in next year (in answer to your recent email). Putting big money into house Reno. Sorry brother.
No probs little bro.
You've been missing some cracking waves though too. Not too cold yet either. Still in a 3/2.
My door is always open.
Mum told me about the reno's.
Cheers brother. Happy that you have been getting a few. Have surfed only once since getting back from o/s back in early Sept. Can't bring myself to surf 1-2ft onshore northerly windswell shit that appears to be the norm for s/e qld for the last three months. It's got to break some time soon.
Cool.
Anyway, back to the point. I don't think this latest diplomatic spat will have any affect on the ground in regards to Aussie surfers.
Our money is just as spendable as all those delicious US dollars or Euro's or Yen or Pounds.
True, at street level, not too much of an issue. There will still be the occasional "intellectual" or ignorant person (sometimes one and the same) and the odd blind anti-Australia zealot but thankfully these, like in all countries, are in an extremely small but unfortunately vocal minority. At the government level, one could easily come to the conclusion that the Indo government is using this more as a bargaining position to get some sort of financial benefit down the track, whether it be trade, or some other unaccountable cash that can easily be diverted and skimmed such as "foreign aid" or cash to help in the fight against people smuggling (not to be confused with budgie smuggling).
Indo has us by the balls here. Tony needs them to co-operate with us so that he can fulfill his "stop the boats" mantra. Indo now has massive leverage.
I find it interesting that alot of the media are throwing it across at the new government when ol' Kev & the Ranga would've have known it was going on. Probably even endorsed it. Ol' Tony now has to deal with it. He's not dealing with it to well at the moment.
Pity Turnbull isn't PM. Leadership requires diplomacy, something Abbott is sadly lacking. He was an effective Opposition Leader, best ever maybe? Attack dog, wrecking ball, divide and conquer', he would be a great wartime Primeminister. But is it a war we want at this point in our history?
Sure Yorkes, I agree this sort of thing requires diplomacy, but I also think it requires a calm and measured response, not lying down snivelling and begging for forgiveness.
This was the only article I've found thus far and not from a particularly independent news source, but it does to a degree address the hypocrisy that Indonesia has shown. With upcoming elections, SBY had no choice but to take this path as there are plenty lying in the shadows ready to unseat him.
Like I said above, the only real mistake is the fact that we were stupid enough to get caught.
I'd almost be prepared to bet my left nut that Indonesia is spying on us right now.
http://www.news.com.au/national/indonesian-general-abdullah-mahmud-hendr...
Had a quick look at the Jakarta post online and the three top stories involve the Oz spy 'scandal'.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/19/australia-should-be-embarr...
They go on to say they should relax their strict entry requirements for immigrants from middle eastern source countries because Australia is using them (and this is a good one) 'to gather intelligence on Indonesia' on their way to Australia.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/19/let-boat-people-cross-oz-l...
Finally, Indonesian and Australian police co-operation hangs in the balance and could mean the disbanding of the JCLEC (Jakarta Centre for Law Enforcement Cooperation) which was coincidentally funded by the Australian government. Unfortunately for the millions of dollars poured into this, there hasn't been much targeting of the root cause of many of the problems and that's the rampant corruption that exists within the Indo police and armed forces.
Can't find anything about Indonesia responding to their own spying claims made by a former Indo General.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/19/let-boat-people-cross-oz-l...
As mentioned before, Indonesia is just as guilty in spying on Australia. Perhaps this should be put directly under the nose of Yudhonono and give him a lesson about what hypocrisy is and what real diplomacy is about.
“All governments gather information … and all governments know that every other government gathers information."
So says our leader...and so say all of us, it seems.
Ipso facto, it must've been perfectly cool if the Indonesians had been eavesdropping on Julia & Tim, even Kev & Thérèse...and now, Tones & Margie/Peta.
Hang on, can anyone see Tones being down with that? Should he be expected to? Someone should ask. Maybe a journalist or somethin'. I mean it should be cool going by Tones logic above, otherwise it would smack of hypocrisy, surely...and we all know this new government is waaaaay above all that kinda hypocritical shite.
If its true all governments do it, then i would say its not at all about the actual act, but its more about respect and saving face.
SBY in the eyes of Indonesian public has to stand his ground and seem to not be taking any shit from Australia especially as i heard they have upcoming elections.
IMO the best outcome would have been if Tony had been as apologetic as possible and apologised on Australia behalf and even Labours behalf, I don't expect labour would apologise because now they will be rubbing there hands together because Indonesia is now going to have a good excuse to not try and help solve the boat people problem.
ha ha maybe now could be a good time to do a bit of bargaining and offload Christmas Island to Indonesia in some sort of deal in exchange for real action/help on the issue, unless its rich with oil or something beneath its shores the island is just a burden for us and half our problem.
I wouldn't be surprised if the ex government was behind the act coming to surface or atleast getting it to the attention of the Indonesian government .
And I'm pretty sure Christmas Island has always been a strategic post for Australian defence , but most likely in the last few decades a way of Australia controlling the Shallower Bathymetry between our two nations , as the Deep water trench pretty much advances between there and as far as 3/4's of the way between Darwin and East Timor . And the East Timor independence campaign was just as much about creating a barrier between us and them , as it was another strategic play but more so for the Oil and Gas rich fields that sit out from us to that Trench , than a pure defence basis . And those isolated outposts including Ashmore become a beacon for opportunists that are willing to try their luck to take advantage of Australia's past foresight . And why not , they wouldn't dream of Public Amenity or even decent welfare in those Middle Eastern exodus zones ......
Julie Bishop's death stare looked more like a rabbit in headlights when asked about the Indo crisis in Washington this morning!
Thanks for the laugh southy for suggesting Labor orchestrated this whole thing. You give them too much credit considering they couldn't see past their own nose when in government? Is Edward Snowden a member of the ALP these days?
Didn't Rudd say before our election that if Abbott keeps up his rhetoric on assylum seekers to Indonesia we would end up in conflict with them? The LNP and media had a field day saying he was being alarmist and irresponsible. Now Rudd's a bit of a douchebag but the spying thing seems to be a bit of an excuse for Indonesia to play to their domestic political interests in the lead up to their election next year. Straight out of the Abbott play book from our last election?
http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/tony-you-stuffed-it-...
president bang bang is doing orditions to go on the big brother reality show
lazzy-100 wrote:president bang bang is doing orditions to go on the big brother reality show
Sorry but i don't get the comment?...
ha ha Tony Abbott says 'high time' Indonesia resumes cooperation on smuggling
://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-15/abbott-says-high-time-indonesia-resumes-c...
Dont think Tony knows how Indo works, SBY will make us wait at least six months to a year before they consider playing ball again, these kind of comments will only make it longer.
Looking at the photo appearing with the article, the body language doesn't look good either, Tony looks to be too full on and the pointing finger is not good in Indo, SBY doesn't look happy in this pic, very guarded. (i guess they choose it on purpose)
Dont these PMs have advisers that are experts in places there dealing with? like ways to act what to say and not say.
The image of Homer Simpson being told the something important, whilst a cloud above his head is of him chasing something shiney through a grassed field.
Thats the image I get of Tony being told by an advisor the diplomatic ways of dealing with Indonesia.
Governments have been doing it for decades. How many do you know on the islands that are on government funded grants that speak fluent bahasa and the job title is cultural ambassador. There's a few.
Once they get the corruption sorted the islands will explode with development. Which means more kooks and more expat wanker locals.
Just wondering what effect the latest Indonesian/Australian diplomatic crisis will have on Aussie surfers travelling to Indo. I was in Jakarta in 1999 just after the East Timor Independance Elections, and it was kinda uncomfortable. People burning the Aussie flag on TV etc, most of the locals I talked to were not happy with Australia at all. I could just imagine how those people think of us now.