Trump

blindboy's picture
blindboy started the topic in Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 6:06pm
blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 6:07pm

Be afraid........very afraid. God fuck Amerika

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 6:48pm

Was hoping old Bernie was gonna get up..... Frump, Dildo hater Ted, or Hilarious..... What a choice......
But hey.... We've got our own problems....

Sheepdog

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 7:25pm

Current sportsbet is Hillary 1.28, Trump 4

so business as usual post election

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 7:37pm

good article, thanks BB

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 8:18pm

Excellent article.

Ignorance is Zen

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 9:57am

Interesting article BB but does it really apply today. Firstly the American political show ain't over yet. Importantly the democracies in the world today do not follow exactly the model as proposed by Pluto. It seems to be clear that America does have a few failings in its constitution which its forefathers did not foresee.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 10:49am

It's over Tony... Breaking news!! Trump is nominee!!!! Cruz suspends campaign!!

Sheepdog

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 11:15am

Yeah, but there is Hillary ...?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 11:43am

tonybarber wrote: Yeah, but there is Hillary ...?

Eh? She's Democrat TB.

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 2:58pm

Understood but this whole American thing ain't over .... Bloody interesting .

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 3:01pm

Its only natural that we whinge about politics in Australia but really our system is better than most.

Imagine a system where you have dynasty's like the Bush's and Clinton's and people like Arnold schwarzenegger and Donald trump, lets hope Clive Palmer is the last that we see of wanna be business man or celebrity politicians.

Indonesia is a similar deal Jokowi is about the only Indonesian president doesn't come from a political elite family or have a military background.

Ada gula, ada semut!

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 3:05pm

Trump proves beyond any doubt the conservative narrative is dead.

Is that the best they can produce? Cruz, the Senator that held America to fiscal default 2 years ago isn't looney enough for the looney right so they go with a single brain celled self serving failed capitalist as their answer.

If, and its still a big if, Trump gets the nomination the republicans will implode .... which in the long term is the best thing that can happen for moderate conservatives in the USA. Let the looney right form their own (tea) party and let the republicans reclaim the central right of American politics.

Same goes for Oz. Last night's budget was a disgrace and a total arse suck to the conservative right of the liberals and the IPA. The yanks are a little ahead of us but the right here have no direction nor narrative ...... the AU economy growing? bullwinkle it is except for negatively gearing property in Sydney and Melbourne.

Anyone else hear Turnbull on Melbourne radio this morning suggesting parents should help buy their kids a house ...... bugger me, now that's a nation building policy right there.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 4:55pm

Indo... I don't know what is worse, the business man (Palmer) or the puppets of the business men (coalition).. He did save Australia from the 2014 budget... So I'll give him that..... I also think he has been crucified... Both sides want the status quo.....
This is also where Trump has filled the void.... People are nearly willing to vote in a groundhog, a boy scout, even an inanimate carbon rod, anything to send a clear message to both sides that "we've had enough"....

Sheepdog

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 5:57pm

For Australia the real issue with Trump, regardless of the final outcome of the Presidential election, is whether we wake up to the fact that we can no longer consider the US to be a rational ally. The trend since WW2 has been for ever more aggressive and short sighted foreign policy resulting in the complete destabilisation of the Middle East accompanied by indiscriminate arms sales to maximise the associated casualties. They have also thoroughly undermined the Geneva convention through their use of torture and the detention of non-combatants without trial.
Trump's rise is yet another indication of the failure of their plutocratic political system to deliver rational domestic policies. Consider gun crime, the chronic abuses rife through their "justice" system, the massive incarceration rates of the poor and disadvantaged, the collapse of opportunity for working class, the slave labour wage rates, the almost complete absence of social security. This is a sick society. We should avoid further infection!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 6:50pm

"whether we wake up to the fact that we can no longer consider the US to be a rational ally"

The cat's been out of the bag for a long time BB, certainly since the ominous "you're either with us or you're against us" line about 15 years ago, and IMO for decades before that.

Doesn't make any difference, Australia is totally under the thumb of the U.S. and nothing serious happens in Oz without the nod of approval from the U.S.

If we tried to fully break away, the best that would happen would be The Dismissal Part II and the worst case scenario, depending on the context, could be really ugly.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 7:04pm

blindboy wrote: For Australia the real issue with Trump, regardless of the final outcome of the Presidential election, is whether we wake up to the fact that we can no longer consider the US to be a rational ally. The trend since WW2 has been for ever more aggressive and short sighted foreign policy resulting in the complete destabilisation of the Middle East accompanied by indiscriminate arms sales to maximise the associated casualties. They have also thoroughly undermined the Geneva convention through their use of torture and the detention of non-combatants without trial.
Trump's rise is yet another indication of the failure of their plutocratic political system to deliver rational domestic policies. Consider gun crime, the chronic abuses rife through their "justice" system, the massive incarceration rates of the poor and disadvantaged, the collapse of opportunity for working class, the slave labour wage rates, the almost complete absence of social security. This is a sick society. We should avoid further infection!

Your above list is the EXACT reason Trump is so popular..... Did you see his speech today?

Sheepdog

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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 7:05pm

I actually think Trump (if elected) will consider Australia a friend... Whether thats a good thing is debatable lol

Sheepdog

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 7:37pm

I did read an article where Trump basically said he'd go through State Dept or whatever their foreign office is, and clean it out. So that means the career diplomats and apparatchiks responsible for US positions on 80's oil crash, Iran-Iraq war, Gulf War I, funding opponents to Soviets in Afghanistan, mujahideen, bombing of Serbia, invasion of Afghanistan, invasion of Iraq, Georgia, Arab spring, removal of Gadaffi and resultant chaos, colour revolution in Ukraine, attempt to oust Assad - did I miss anything? - well, anyway the dudes with views on these happenings are gone.

Breath of fresh air.

Nevertheless, current major strategy is not going to change (eg, TPP, Pivot to Asia) no matter who is president.

mk1's picture
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mk1 commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 7:48pm

Look at that list VJ! Trump might actually be better than a party Republican candidate like cruz considering the shit sandwich!!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 7:54pm

velocityjohnno wrote: I did read an article where Trump basically said he'd go through State Dept or whatever their foreign office is, and clean it out. So that means the career diplomats and apparatchiks responsible for US positions on 80's oil crash, Iran-Iraq war, Gulf War I, funding opponents to Soviets in Afghanistan, mujahideen, bombing of Serbia, invasion of Afghanistan, invasion of Iraq, Georgia, Arab spring, removal of Gadaffi and resultant chaos, colour revolution in Ukraine, attempt to oust Assad - did I miss anything? - well, anyway the dudes with views on these happenings are gone.

Breath of fresh air.

Nevertheless, current major strategy is not going to change (eg, TPP, Pivot to Asia) no matter who is president.

Trump wouldn't have a hope in hell of putting a broom through the status quo. He's full of wind.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 2:48pm

TrumpBull?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 2:50pm

ha ha ha...

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 3:14pm

oh you are starting a nasty class war all overall again turks, now where's my G&T?

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 3:24pm

Class? In Australia? What is this 'class' you speak of?

The C word!

https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/december/1385816400/tim-winton/...

"According to the new mores, any mention of structural social inequality is tantamount to a declaration of class warfare. Concerns about the distribution of wealth, education and health are difficult to raise in a public forum without needing to beat off the ghost of Stalin. The only form of political correctness that the right will tolerate is the careful elision of class from public discourse, and this troubling discretion has become mainstream. It constitutes an ideological triumph for conservatives that even they must marvel at. Having uttered the c-word in polite company, I felt, for a moment, as if I’d shat in the municipal pool."

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 4:03pm

The conservatives can attack payments for: health; education; welfare; for the NDIS; for remote Aboriginal communities; for foreign aid; or any other program to help low income families or the average jock and its called "living within our means" "good economic management" "an economic plan" "the emerging economy" .... blah blah ...........

oh but if you dare suggest we need a Royal Commission into the corrupt behaviour of our banks or suggest the government should tackle negative gearing tax avoidance well thats class warfare right there ....

FFS

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 5 May 2016 at 6:01pm

“There's class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.” (2006)

(And I'm referring here to Warren not Jimmy)

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
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Shatner'sBassoon commented Monday, 9 May 2016 at 6:23pm

An interesting take on Trump and Hillary from John Pilger. Scary.

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-mor...

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 9 May 2016 at 7:05pm

Good article, Shats.. A vote for Clinton is a vote for the status quo.... And people are sick of it.... Love him or hate him, Trump certainly has made things interesting.

Sheepdog

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Monday, 9 May 2016 at 9:52pm

Shatner'sBassoon wrote: An interesting take on Trump and Hillary from John Pilger. Scary.

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-mor...

I don't deny the premise of the title. but what a wonderful fictional piece by John.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 12:36am

Can you be more specific Happy?

Which bit/s by Pilger do you see as fiction?

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 7:45am

excellent article

finally people with credibility are saying the once un-sayable

trump is the revolution we've all been hoping for, the pompous upper classes of the left just have to get over themselves and realise they have more in common with the great unwashed...more common interests anyway

we really shouldn't have expected any decent leadership from the bourgeois left, they're too comfortable enjoying their self indulgence to have any fire in their belly's

from the article

A generation ago, a post-modern cult now known as “identity politics” stopped many intelligent, liberal-minded people examining the causes and individuals they supported – such as the fakery of Obama and Clinton; such as bogus progressive movements like Syriza in Greece, which betrayed the people of that country and allied with their enemies.

Self-absorption, a kind of “me-ism”, became the new zeitgeist in privileged western societies and signalled the demise of great collective movements against war, social injustice, inequality, racism and sexism.

identity politics only served to tear those with common interests apart, giving the neo-liberal globalisation experiment free reign, supported by the political class from both sides.

classic devide and conquer.

if one was a conspiracy theorist you'd say it was all part of a msster plan

muslim academics have said despite the propoganda trump is actually the safest candidate as he has said he'll stop the meddling in the middle east.

ANY amercan candidate willing to say that, while questioning the dodgy dealings with saudi arabia is a good thing. not to mention questioning the TPP. bernie has said the same things but unfortunately he can't get any traction with the establishment media manipulation, trump stormed through it, they literally couldn't stop him!

he's also talking about ' the 28 pages', once the domain of nut cases, even the new yorker had an article on it, there's some big shit that's about to blow, one way ot another

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 8:44am

Yeah, I don't know. It's easy for Trump to make a statement about US isolationism but the price of that will be the loss of US exceptionalism. If America retreats from the world they relinquish their primacy and, honestly, can anyone see that happening? Really...? A century of playing the global cop and they'll cede the ground to China? 

And though it's distasteful, US primacy provides stability, not for everyone of course but for the greater part of the developed world this is true. China is on the ascendancy, they have their political house in order, and they're forging alliances across the world. African nations in particular are huge beneficiaries of Chinese money.

If Trump's vision were to come true the global order will get a complete Realpolitik reshuffle, and though I don't agree with much that the US does the alternative is pretty damn daunting.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 9:04am

revolutions are rarely neat affairs

and their leaders are rarely as suave as obama (unfortunately)

I think that article is a little harsh on obama, I think with another four years he could sort this mess out in a civil manner, but that ain't gonna happen, and the replacement candidates (on both sides) are either lame and dangerous or radical and....

none of them are up to it, besides bernie, but Americans are too paranoid of socialism to vote him in.

the system needs rebooting, it's fucked

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 10:26am

Stu writes; " China is on the ascendancy, they have their political house in order, and they're forging alliances across the world. African nations in particular are huge beneficiaries of Chinese money."

It was that long ago when everyone was saying the exact same thing about Japan... Things can move pretty quick in this .com free trade world.... It aint the same.... Super powers and empires were once formed over decades, centuries even.... And it often took longer for them to crumble.... Not any more.... Things can turn pretty quickly..

Sheepdog

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 11:07am

stunet wrote:

Yeah, I don't know. It's easy for Trump to make a statement about US isolationism but the price of that will be the loss of US exceptionalism. If America retreats from the world they relinquish their primacy and, honestly, can anyone see that happening? Really...? A century of playing the global cop and they'll cede the ground to China? 

And though it's distasteful, US primacy provides stability, not for everyone of course but for the greater part of the developed world this is true. China is on the ascendancy, they have their political house in order, and they're forging alliances across the world. African nations in particular are huge beneficiaries of Chinese money.

If Trump's vision were to come true the global order will get a complete Realpolitik reshuffle, and though I don't agree with much that the US does the alternative is pretty damn daunting.

Fair comment Stu, there's no way Trump will be allowed to pursue isolationist policies, the decision wouldn't be his to make anyway.
Imagine the amount of money invested in the U.S. and its imperialist adventures - it's not going to change in a hurry.
As for the U.S. providing stability, it would be interesting to see what percentage of the world's population has been destabilised by U.S. policy in the past 50 years - large parts of South and Central America, South East Asia, middle Asia, Middle East etc.
A lot of these places are probably better off with U.S.-forced stability (on American terms for American benefit) but it's debatable and a topic for someone with more knowledge than me.

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tim foilat commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 1:04pm
AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 1:45pm

tim foilat wrote: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-09/paul-craig-roberts-warns-killar...

Cheers Tim.
Although the picture painted of Hilary Clinton is a bit over the top, the article still gets to the core of U.S. policy and political machinations.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 4:11pm

a trump just got voted in (in the phillipines)

he's got some pragmatic ideas about China's territory consolidation. our region is about to get real interesting

http://m.theage.com.au/world/forget-donald-trump-australia-needs-to-worr...

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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 4:15pm

sypkan wrote: a trump just got voted in (in the phillipines)

he's got some pragmatic ideas about China's territory consolidation. our region is about to get real interesting

http://m.theage.com.au/world/forget-donald-trump-australia-needs-to-worr...

Crikey!!!!!

Sheepdog

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chook commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 4:39pm

i'd say not much will change in the philipines. he won't do anything at all...other than amass an enormous amount of money and have a few squabbles with some other people who want a cut of the money.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 7:00pm

AndyM wrote: Can you be more specific Happy?

Which bit/s by Pilger do you see as fiction?

US policy to protect Israel by whatever means necessary from an Iranian attack is bi-partisan. to single out hillary's comments on "obliterating" iran is disingenuous towards John's argument. yes her old comments were out of line, and unnecessarily aggressive. but don't be fooled for one minute that republicans wont react in the same manner should iran attack Israel, or indeed iran defend itself from an Israel attack.

next, look up talisman sabre 2015. then convince yourself whether this is relevant in a Hillary vs Trump war mongering comparison let alone a party comparison. just because he says so? how did he find out about this secrete Chinese agenda? its 'highly secret' according to him. that's laughable in my opinion and of course just wrong. what about all the other talisman sabres and other joint exercises of past years conducted bi-partisan?

now try to work out what John is suggesting when he starts talking about Obama deportation's knowing what we know about Trumps stance in his vocal parade. I really didn't understand his argument here, but he creatively words things so its sounds impressive.

look up US wars, and decide if his comments are fair and relevant. there's truth in his argument but lets not forget wars under the republicans including non-sanctioned attacks and the whole WMD thing. yeah Clinton talked about WMD too, but Bush was the president who made wide sweeping statements that proved incorrect.

the article is not bad....it very interesting and tells a good story about US global force. but as always, its as much about what you don't write as what you do. and what any of it has to do with the title is beyond me.

doesn't trump stand for a much larger military? tbh....im skeptical all round.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 7:10pm

Pilger may be guilty of over-statement but most media commentators are guilty of wilful ignorance on these issues. As I said at the start the US is an unreliable and increasingly dangerous ally but despite all our Aussie Aussie Aussie bravado and pathetic Anzackery, Australia has never had the courage to stand on its own. We have some sort of inferiority complex that saw us scurry from John Bull to Uncle Sam during WW2 and cling to his increasingly bedraggled coat tails ever since.

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Tuesday, 10 May 2016 at 8:18pm

Time to listen to Noni Hazelhursts speech at the Logies. Yes, the media needs to be taken to task. The Pilger article is typical.

theween's picture
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theween commented Wednesday, 11 May 2016 at 7:04pm

Amazing how critical we are of the yanks - without their support in WW2 we'd now be speaking Japanese. Seems 'blindboy' is an appropriate nickname for someone in denial.

The Ween

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 11 May 2016 at 7:17pm

theween wrote: Amazing how critical we are of the yanks - without their support in WW2 we'd now be speaking Japanese. Seems 'blindboy' is an appropriate nickname for someone in denial.

Denial? Hardly, my father was liberated from a Japaness prisoner of war camp by US soldiers on the day all prisoners were to be killed. That was then, this is now. Seventy years is a long time in a culture and for at least the last 50 years the trend line in US culture has been down. Fossilised ideas of loyalty are a very poor guide to foreign policy. What's that old saying? Nations have no permanent allies, only permanent interests and US policy left Australia's best interests behind long ago.

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talkingturkey commented Wednesday, 11 May 2016 at 8:14pm

tonybarber wrote: Time to listen to Noni Hazelhursts speech at the Logies.

Comedy gold.

"I have a dream...yeah, nah"

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Wednesday, 11 May 2016 at 7:51pm

should US and China tensions rise to the point of military action in the foreseeable future; there is no way Australia will side with China. historical ties, social ways, government....practically everything is more aligned with the US than China.

so AUS plays a careful game of being stuck in the middle. we want both benefits, chinas economy, and the US's security. and for now we get both. maybe not in the future though.

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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 7 Jun 2016 at 1:46pm

& overnight Associated Press crowned Hillary the democratic nomination (a day before final California primary! That will make Bernie fans happy...)
So sportsbet now Hillary 1.40 Trump 3.25... it's Hillary who will win, business as usual - and that means make sure you are following global geopolitics closely.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 7 Jun 2016 at 5:37pm

Was gonna put this in "tunes".... But this is a good enough home for it.... Not bad for a 32 year old song..

Sheepdog

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 8 Jun 2016 at 12:32am

always loved that rifles song

hard to believe but this trump thing might actually happen, could be worth a bet at those odds. some polls now have him beating hilary, but bernie beating trump

I used to like clinton but now she just looks wrong whatever she's saying. and apparently a lot of americans agree, I personally wouldn't vote trump but many democrats are saying they'd rather vote for trump than hilary, she's on the nose

whatever happens Hilary should step aside, give bernie a go, he's the only one who can avoid the trump. Hilary is the dangerous one either way. but she's waited 8 years for 'her time' she's never gonna walk away now...unfortunately

"Last month the film star, who’s been a loud advocate of Bernie Sanders, was asked what she’d do if he failed to win the Democratic nomination and it came down to a choice between his rival and Trump. “I’m more afraid of Hillary Clinton’s war record and hawkishness than I am of building a wall,” Sarandon said. Earlier, she had suggested that, for the true leftist, there might be an upside to a victory for the Republican: “Some people feel Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately.”"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/28/plea-hilliary-clint...