too many surf schools and contests

doghead's picture
doghead started the topic in Tuesday, 10 Nov 2015 at 5:18am

The focus is on crowds and surf rage with summer approaching. And Surfing Australia is quoted"surf where are capable".
Well that won't solve anything. Surfing Australia is getting government funding to create more surfers and they are doing a damned good job of it. Surf schools everywhere and massive numbers pouring through their system.
You think it's crowded now. Let's see what happens in 5 years.. MAHEM is on the horizon. We need to stop all of the surf schools if we expect our sport to remain the fun domain it is. Surf schools are a money grab by surfing Australia with no plan on how to manage the crowd. Surfing Australia needs to build some artificial reefs in its plans or we are doomed to MEGA CROWDS.
DOGHEAD

surfing-cronulla's picture
surfing-cronulla's picture
surfing-cronulla commented Wednesday, 11 Nov 2015 at 10:27pm

doghead wrote: Surfing Australia is getting government funding to create more surfers and they are doing a damned good job of it. Surf schools everywhere and massive numbers pouring through their system.
DOGHEAD

Surfing Australia administers over contests and related compliance like judging, location, insurance, rankings, surf school certification, safety etc etc. mainly funded through State registrations and membership. They are registered as a 'Non-profit Organisation" and may well get certain tax exemptions and subsidies, don't know, but wasn't aware they were Government funded?

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 5:29am

Surfing Australia receives millions of dollars in government funding with a mandate to increase surfer numbers. Every sport receive their government funding, swimming for example. If the numbers drop so does the funding. Don't be fooled people Surfing Australia is effectively destroying surfing for short term gain. It must stop. More swimmer or footy players is great but the number of surfers being pumped out is a joke. You think its busy ow. Watch this space in 5 or 10 years. Surfing Australia is a big pig with it's head firmly in the trough.. It may be not for profit however it's highly paid executives are on a massive payroll and huge incentives to increase participant numbers..

sharkman's picture
sharkman's picture
sharkman commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 10:09am

yeah doghead , the HPC at Cassurina is funded , but no results yet , S A is just a bureaucracy looking after its employees , ask any surfer ,"do you more or less people to surf with?", we all know the answer its NO.

they even get paid to produce journeyman pro surfers , so far their system hasn't produced any potential world champs , so why are they there, nepotism!

thebeard's picture
thebeard's picture
thebeard commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 11:14am

I'd be interested to see how many of the people who take surf lessons actually end up surfing. To me it seems like a nice thing to to do for tourists or people who just got introduced to Kelly Slater and commence on their journey to a world title. those grom programs they run could be potentially a thing in the future. It either produces a whole new generation of surfers that are strictly in it for the win (I was baffled to see how competitive those training sessions are!) or frustrated angry surfers who didn't make the cut.

What ever happened to learning to surf from your dad / mum / important person in your life? Best memories I have is surfing dawnies with my old man. And now I have kids of my own I enjoy nothing more then pushing them into waves and hear them scream with a mix of terror / excitement / absolute stoke.

Surf schools....

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 11:32am

Beard - Pretty much every new surfer for the last ten years has come through a surf school.

I'd say that accounts for 95 percent of all European surfers to start with.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 12:48pm

good onya doghead, important issues for sure that surfing bodies don't want to talk about because it's not in their interests. while it is modern culture to idolise the ccelebrity and sports star, this elitist seriously top heavy culture is destroying surfing for most surfer, and for what? so a bunch of wannabees can ride the gravy train.

the worst thing is all these organised surf lessons promote overly competitive surfing from the kids classes on, telling them to get as many waves as possible and to hassle. what about teaching rthem the subtleties of surfing, like line ups, snaking, respect for oldies, and trying to spread the crowds instead of sending hordes of barely there surfers out in already crowded line ups.

most of the important things about surfing are learnt through experience, slow enduring experiences wirh real surfers, not by being sold a hoax by the microcosm of overly competitive and capatalist surfers

the grommet pole is a valuable education tool as well

the milliins spent on things like hpc could have done wonders to alleviate crowds and associated rage, but no we spent it on the already privileged, because politicians have been fed a very narrow view of what surfing is

even the whole idea that some two bit surf club can put up a flag and claim exclusive rights to a beach needs to be addressed, as there are way too many two bit surf clubs now!

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 1:26pm

SHUT THEM DOWN ..
This is a forum of surfers. This is a small platform to start lobbying for a change. A redirection of funding away from HPC competition surfing and surfing Australia and into creation of a management system for the hordes including reduction of operating surf schools in busy areas. A policy related to competition in populated surf zones and a policy relating to the operation of a board riders club. And the creation of artificial surf zones in populated areas and a shark/ surfer management scheme. Wake up polititians with your view. The funding to Surfing Australia must be reviewed for the sake of the masses. A continuous growth in surfer numbers will cause carnage, well it already is causing carnage. Surfing Australia pays itself, it's elite executives, etc. etc.. It's a monster gobbling up millions in government funding for short term gain of very few.
The HPC is empty. It is now fishing for other business. It's executive pays itself exhorbitant salaries and for what? A fat cat small group of surfers who only represent a very small % of the surfer population.
At the last World Titles Surfing Australia's team barely made the cut with 1 silver medal. The worst result in 10 years. SA is cashing up on Government funding and related sponsor packages. The Government funded HURLEY HPC has produced nothing. It's a gold plated cash magnet afforded by the few. It has all lost it's way. My campaign doesn't stop here my friends and nor should yours.

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 1:28pm

MEGA CROWDS ARE COMING TO A BEACH NEAR YOU AND YOU ARE FUNDING IT..

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 1:55pm

THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF SURFING AS WE KNOW IT.. A TEAR I SHED FOR OUR FUTURE MY FRIENDS..

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 2:03pm

fired up there doghead, ride the energy!

the problem with surfing is it's uniqueness as a sport. it has a glitzy and glamourous side to it that to an outsider watching a gold coasr beach, seems absolutely fabulous. all those fit bodies playing together in the water, getting healthy, with nearly zero need for infrastructure, a politicians dream, nothing to do here, especially if an aussie is world champ.

the reality is a bunch of people, with odd ideas of rules, tolerating each other, suppressing their snarls, trying to stay positive hoping to snag one good one to make a two hour commitment worthwhile.

the problem is when government wants or to get involved, they consult the lifesavers and competitive surfing for advice, a very narrow self serving view is going to come from those two groups.

while they are the most visible, and glamorous, there are a whole group of people quietly coming and going on a daily basis that probably spend just as much time at the beach, and easily outnumber these other two organised groups that just aren't appealing to some people. these people should have just as much input into how resources are managed as we are all players and tax payers.

the government likes organised groups, it's in their nature, unfortunately recreational surfers are an unruly mob by nature, not fitting with the government style of doing things. I think recreational surfers need an organised body to balance out these very selfish special interest groups that appear to make no effort to be inclusive of all beach users.

braudulio's picture
braudulio's picture
braudulio commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 2:02pm

Blowin wrote: Beard - Pretty much every new surfer for the last ten years has come through a surf school.

I'd say that accounts for 95 percent of all European surfers to start with.

Be interested to see some stats on how many of the top 44 (past and present) learnt to surf at a "surf school". I am not talking about HPC type affairs, I mean started surfing through a "surf school".

‘IF YOU UNDERSTAND, things are just as they are;
if you do not understand, THINGS ARE JUST AS THEY ARE.’

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 2:31pm

I just got back from a holiday home and caught up with some surfing mates up the Sunny coast. Five of us paddled out for an early at Peregian in pretty shitty surf. There were a few bumps here and there to keep us entertained. Anyway, so much fun, just like old times hooting a laughing at each other until an hour in (I can't remember his names ) surf school paddled out. Sure just a bunch of frothing kids, but I have never seen such shocking surf etiquette. Every wave these buggers paddled around, tried to snake at any opportunity or if they weren't in position they'd just drop in with impunity. It was almost comical. Went from being a fun sesh with a few old mates to just a total waste of time. You can't get angry though, what can you do? Anyway, took off on a wave to come in, got blatantly dropped in on and 'Oi'd' him just as I banged a turn behind his head. In my day it would have resulted in smack around the ears. I don't know what this bloke was teaching these kids but it wasn't manners.

Hope this isn't the future of surfing.

Ignorance is Zen

50young's picture
50young's picture
50young commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 2:40pm

And there is the problem Zen!! they do not teach surf etiquette. Just as bad are the dads out there pushing their kids into waves, when they blatantly push em in even when your up and riding. If you going to push your kids into waves (and I don't have a problem with pushing your kids into waves) just don;t do it on the main wave right out at the point and teach your kids some etiquette and manners

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 2:44pm

It is Zen.

I recently endured a reimagining of the Fuehrer's blitzkrieg attack on Poland in '39 as two dozen Teutonic surf school graduates took that leap of faith from the beach to the outside reef.

As hilarious and irritating as you'd imagine.

The future is here.

And it's ugly.

But the individuals can be aesthetically beautiful !

Some of the frauleins were very Grrrr Baby ! Yeah!

Sorry about that. I recently watched Austin Powers.

thebeard's picture
thebeard's picture
thebeard commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 3:29pm

50young wrote: And there is the problem Zen!! they do not teach surf etiquette. Just as bad are the dads out there pushing their kids into waves, when they blatantly push em in even when your up and riding. If you going to push your kids into waves (and I don't have a problem with pushing your kids into waves) just don;t do it on the main wave right out at the point and teach your kids some etiquette and manners

I'm hearing you 50. Just the other week I took my oldest out to a little point that runs into a a nice beachie, nicely tucked away so that the waves are just right for the little frother. As I'm explaining to him he can't surf the point as that is where you go when you can actually surf I see this dad pushing his kid in front of this hipster on a mal. Never knew vegans could swear so loudly. Poor kid squealed like a little piggie, dad all insulted. That shit just ruins my day.

What I really can't stand about surf schools (or folks learning to surf) is they bring in 12 of them at once. After being in your way for just under an hour (most of them don't last longer as they're to obese to move their arms anyway) they just leave the car park trashed and move on to the next "adventure"

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 6:58pm

SURFING AUSTRALIA IS A VIRUS
Dumb government is giving money to a bunch of fat cats with heads in trough and not at all considering the consequences of flushing thousands of surfers through the pipe. It's a fucking virus. DUMB MONEY HUNGRY SELF CENTRED CRACK HEADS... I'M NOT FIRED UP YET sypkan...

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Thursday, 12 Nov 2015 at 7:33pm

doghead wrote:
sypkan wrote: fired up there doghead, ride the energy!

the problem with surfing is it's uniqueness as a sport. it has a glitzy and glamourous side to it that to an outsider watching a gold coasr beach, seems absolutely fabulous. all those fit bodies playing together in the water, getting healthy, with nearly zero need for infrastructure, a politicians dream, nothing to do here, especially if an aussie is world champ.

the reality is a bunch of people, with odd ideas of rules, tolerating each other, suppressing their snarls, trying to stay positive hoping to snag one good one to make a two hour commitment worthwhile.

the problem is when government wants or to get involved, they consult the lifesavers and competitive surfing for advice, a very narrow self serving view is going to come from those two groups.

while they are the most visible, and glamorous, there are a whole group of people quietly coming and going on a daily basis that probably spend just as much time at the beach, and easily outnumber these other two organised groups that just aren't appealing to some people. these people should have just as much input into how resources are managed as we are all players and tax payers.

the government likes organised groups, it's in their nature, unfortunately recreational surfers are an unruly mob by nature, not fitting with the government style of doing things. I think recreational surfers need an organised body to balance out these very selfish special interest groups that appear to make no effort to be inclusive of all beach users.


Sypkan, very perceptive of you.
If there's a non-competitive recreational surfing association out there, count me in.
What issues can you imagine addressing - code of ethics for surf schools? Laminated "rules of the road" that punters must read and sign before they can hire a board?
doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Friday, 13 Nov 2015 at 8:35am

sypkan wrote: fired up there doghead, ride the energy!

the problem with surfing is it's uniqueness as a sport. it has a glitzy and glamourous side to it that to an outsider watching a gold coasr beach, seems absolutely fabulous. all those fit bodies playing together in the water, getting healthy, with nearly zero need for infrastructure, a politicians dream, nothing to do here, especially if an aussie is world champ.

the reality is a bunch of people, with odd ideas of rules, tolerating each other, suppressing their snarls, trying to stay positive hoping to snag one good one to make a two hour commitment worthwhile.

the problem is when government wants or to get involved, they consult the lifesavers and competitive surfing for advice, a very narrow self serving view is going to come from those two groups.

while they are the most visible, and glamorous, there are a whole group of people quietly coming and going on a daily basis that probably spend just as much time at the beach, and easily outnumber these other two organised groups that just aren't appealing to some people. these people should have just as much input into how resources are managed as we are all players and tax payers.

the government likes organised groups, it's in their nature, unfortunately recreational surfers are an unruly mob by nature, not fitting with the government style of doing things. I think recreational surfers need an organised body to balance out these very selfish special interest groups that appear to make no effort to be inclusive of all beach users.

Karen Kirstine's picture
Karen Kirstine's picture
Karen Kirstine commented Friday, 27 May 2016 at 3:06pm

Hi there!
I have read this discussion with great interest. It seems that you all more or less agree that surf schools are an issue for the sport of surfing in Australia. I was therefore wondering if any of you might be willing to elaborate a bit on your views and maybe tell me a bit about some of the issues you have experienced in the meeting with the surf schools and why surf schools are a problem in general? From elsewhere I experienced that the issues with surf schools are more visible on the east Coast than on the West Coast. Can anyone tell me if this is true?

Cheers,

Karen Kirstine

penmister's picture
penmister's picture
penmister commented Monday, 18 Jan 2016 at 6:49pm

I don't have a problem with surf schools.there boards are fun...its just like swimming between the flags for them. The instructor isnt going to put them in good surf..if you're surfing were a surf school is and your not part of it. your a floating tea bag gronk...People think they own the ocean...

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Monday, 18 Jan 2016 at 8:45pm

Karen
Read all of the above.
The general consensus is:
1 Surfing Australia is cashing in on gvnt funding to increase surfer numbers with no infrastructure to cope with the number.
2. Surf schools are putting inexperienced surfers into the lineup causing megacrowds.
3. Surf schools are increasing surfer numbers to such a degree that in 10 yrs time it'll be unsurfable causing frustrated surfers to punch on.. No room for surf schools anymore.
4. Surf schools operate in crowded zones causing further disruption.
5 SURF SCHOOLS ARE A COMMERCIAL ENTITY OPERATING IN A PUBLIC AREA..

penmister's picture
penmister's picture
penmister commented Monday, 18 Jan 2016 at 10:26pm

1 who is surfing Australia?
2 surf schools are putting people in the ocean that would be to scared to go in..
3 in 10 yrs time maybe a handful of students will still be in the water.
4 no crowded then any local beach break were no one has attended a surf school.
5 Surf schools are fun for anyone who wants to taste the ocean...

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Tuesday, 19 Jan 2016 at 6:04am

Penmister
1 Who are you? Surfing Aust registers every surf school. $$$
2 Do you own a surf school? Putting scared people in the ocean? Is that a good thing?
3 10 years ago all the crowd here now were learners in surf schools.
4 Surf schools are making money from the ocean and putting nothing back.
5 What ever happened to learning the hard way like we did..
6 THIS IS ALL ABOUT MEGACROWDS THAT ARE INCREASING WORSE BECAUSE SURFING AUSTRALIA IS SUCKING GOVNT FUNDS TO INCREASE SURFER NUMBERS.

doghead's picture
doghead's picture
doghead commented Tuesday, 19 Jan 2016 at 8:00am

Let's not miss the point..
A not for profit organization with big salary executives are sucking millions of dollars out of gvnt coffers. So we are paying to have surfer numbers increase.
Surfing Australia must increase numbers to continue receiving funding just like any sport.
And the surf schools are the key to that. Introduction of surfing to a non swimmer is disaster as well..
The government should put it's/our money into real things that matter not unresearched unprecedented growth of a sport with nowhere to expand. It's not like we can just open a new area to cope with the numbers.. Artificial reefs and wave pools are where the money should go. Not some tiny skate park costing a million dollars.. Catering only for a small minority..

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Tuesday, 19 Jan 2016 at 9:31am

yeah, surf australia are just a bunch of cparpet baggers making private profits from public money.

but i don't share your outrage about surf schools. as karen suggests, surf schools seem just a bucket list experience for visitors who never go onto surf again. they aren't there to teach people to surf, but just to give them an afternoon on a board in the water. then it's off to cairns for a snorkel.

penmister's picture
penmister's picture
penmister commented Tuesday, 19 Jan 2016 at 10:20am

No i don't run a surf school.But if the government are funding surf schools.Sounds like it could be a good idea,to earn some easy $$$ on the weekends...

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 19 Jan 2016 at 12:00pm

Karen, investigate if there is any direct government subsidy for surf lessons on the West Coast (ie, lowering the price the public pays), and see if that arrangement is prevalent on the East Coast. If you find such a subsidy exists, it would make it extremely difficult for private companies to operate profitably in such an environment.

It takes years of nurturing and experiences shared, to raise a true surfer.
And my travels of the Gt Aussie bight reveal lots and lots of waves with no crowds. Often with correct foredune patterns and awesome sandbanks. Seek and ye shall find.

Karen Kirstine's picture
Karen Kirstine's picture
Karen Kirstine commented Friday, 27 May 2016 at 3:07pm

Hey guys, Thank you very much for your insights, very useful!

wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Friday, 27 May 2016 at 3:50pm

Hi Karen,

IMHO I feel these types of schools, are a great attribute for the majority of the human race.
Hence I attended a surf school this week, which I finally found out how to paddle the correct way.
I was doing it all wrong for many a year.

I had the classic bad schooled effect of paddling like a swimmer.
Hence I was wrong! Bad habits never die eh?
Now being schooled like a schoolie, whilst being at a surfing school, I can now paddle like the rest of all the other surfing schoolies.
I'm so glad for this schooling to say the least.

Surfing school has taught me so much, I'm not sure why there are so many negative feed backs about them IMO.

I once, went for a ride in the trees with a snowboard instructor, in Japan.
He fell over, in the powder every 50m, dodging trees.
I got sick of waiting for him, so waited 10 minutes at the lift.
Finally I found him covered in snow and puffing like it was an olympic run or something?

He had the audacity to tell me, whilst on the lift, I had really bad habits and I should get some snowboard schooling???????

Bad habits never die eh?

I started posting on SN once and was told that my literature was disgraceful!
So I went to literature school and novhing has change'd....

My wife said I came too quick.
So I went to sex school and learnt something!
Never come.
I don't and wife still moans???????

I hate schools;)

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

fong's picture
fong's picture
fong commented Monday, 30 May 2016 at 6:15pm

Interesting thread revival.

Surf Australia instructor courses are causing some drama.
They have promoted it as a world wide credibility course but...

You must return to Australia and complete more surfing Australia courses at your expense every two years.

One of the requirements to keep your instructor credentials is be a paid up member of surfing Australia.

Hmmmm....thats interesting.

Not all Europe backpackers are lacking $$$

But I guess once they get sued...the government $$ will be used to pay out.

and it will be business as usual.

Its like a legal (?) Extortion racket

u never so poor u can't afford manners....

50young's picture
50young's picture
50young commented Tuesday, 31 May 2016 at 11:27am

Nothing different to being a PT, you have to be a member of Fitness Australia and continue further education to maintain a number of points every two yrs to remain current

fong's picture
fong's picture
fong commented Tuesday, 31 May 2016 at 1:06pm

The argument I'm hearing by several traveller's is its promoted as a world wide qualification.And one is seriously pissed off and daddy isn't someone to mess with.
They expect to be able to travel with it and work.
I suspect its a mixture of poor communication and a rip off on travellers .
I fail to see how financial member of the organization helps your skills ?
Sounds more like a old style union closed shop work place.

u never so poor u can't afford manners....

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 14 Jun 2016 at 11:14am

Know thy enemy.

http://www.ispo.com/en/markets/id_78088002/surfing-in-china-with-nicola-...

I have seen the devil.

And his name is Nicolla.