So who are you going to vote for?
Tonybarber, I don't follow, how did the HRC behave? I haven't followed this at all so really only saw an article or two on the 'facts' of the incident. What did she do that was so bad?
And no I didn't hear about Windsor and credlin. I've been avoiding the news for aabout the past 7-8 weeks.
Re Windsor, he made a quip and a few people got upset with him about it. Is that it? Are you outraged at his comment or outraged at the outrage? Either way it does seem like a literal storm in a tea cup. Who cares if s few geese on Twitter get angry at him. It makes no difference and it's just them expressing their view on it. No big deal as far as I can see.
Normally, I try not speak poorly of people but I've had the mispleasure of meeting Peta Credlin a couple of times. That woman is a monster. Pretentious, conceited, condescending, not to mention just a downright nasty bitch.
PS Little known fact- she's terrified of elevators.
@shatners Yep thought so, hankie ironer. Muslims? LNP voters? WTF.I want some of what you are on. Ha, Ha. Cheers.
Again Bensk, you have missed the point. If the comment by Windsor was made by others, would we get the same response or should we get the same response. maybe look at what Ayaan Hirsi Ali says.
With Windsor, he should have known better even if it was a flippant comment. If Turnbull would said it .... ??
With QUT case, the point was not what was right or what was wrong be either party or person. The fact is, it is a dogs breakfast. And you need to ask yourself why. Either yours or my interpretation are not relevant.
tonybarber, I am missing the point because it's not clear to me what point you're making. I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't get what problem you're seeing. I'm just seeing an evolving conversation in which all sides are speaking.
It seems with Windsor we're just watching an public conversation where one person says something, maybe a little off or whatever I don't know, a bunch of people get upset and say so. Old mate can respond how he likes. Honestly, what is the big deal there? All sides are having a conversation. Is it a problem that people get upset? I'd have thought not. I don't think it's a problem that we might not know we're going to upset someone before we say something. Especially if the consequence is someone telling us that we upset them. big deal. Surely the anti-PC brigade aren't so sensitive as to be upset that the PC brigade yell at them from time to time, but that's what it sounds like so far.
What does A.H. Ali say? I understand she's written several books, tell me what she says that you think is relevant here, otherwise I don't know what point you're trying to make.
re qut...are you arguing political correctness is to blame for a messy legal situation? Looks to me like it's just a typically convoluted legal process going on there.
PS. To go back to the thread, for what it's worth, this time I voted greens with pref to ALP and then LNP. Main reason for greens was reffos. I was rather taken by Di Natale's statement on qanda a few weeks back where he said "a decent society doesn't take innocent people and harm them, and we know they're being harmed, to send a message to someone else." I found that to be a very sobering way of expressing that issue and I agreed with him completely. I'd like us to take a more broadly focused, approach to the issue of asylum seekers. I'd like us to "smash the business model of the people smugglers", as they say, by working on the ground with regional processing rather than locking people up. I realise I'm naively idealistic here, but I don't like what we're doing to the people on Manus and Nauru. That became my principal decision maker this time around. I realise preferencing ALP would give my vote to the same policy once the greens are out of the race but that was my decision.
In the senate, I went greens + minor parties above the line. I actually like the idea of a hung parliament where the peeps in there have to talk up and down and across the aisle and negotiate for outcomes. I think the Australian public is mature enough to handle that kind of parliament, especially since we've collectively voted for that in the recent past. I'm not so sure our politicians can handle it though. See how we and they go.
Um okay please explain... You voted Green because.
" I'd like us to "smash the business model of the people smugglers", as they say, by working on the ground with regional processing rather than locking people up".
??????
How does that make any sense???
The greens might treat asylum seekers better I'm sure thats true, but they sure as hell wouldn't be deterring any, god knows what numbers would rise too???..no body knows, its an unknown but with 60 million refugees in the world the supply is there.
And if by regional processing you mean processing in places like Indonesia and processing fast, thats like adding fuel to a fire, as apart fro putting the welcome mat out, you just made it cheaper for people to get there as you cut out the boat trip, cheaper means much more accessible to much much larger number of refugees...
But it will never happen anyway Indonesia would never agree even if they say they might, just for the very reason it wouldn't change a thing for them and could make things worse as we could never accept the numbers that would enter Indonesia and instead of 13,000 refugees stuck in Indo trying to get to Oz, it could be 130,000 stuck in Indo even after we have upped our intake.
BTW. I did actually use to think the same idea was the solution.
i actually think the Malaysian solution was the best bet, seemed crazy at first, but once you thought about it, it could have worked, i guess thats what the liberals were scared would happen hence stopped it from happening.
ID. Assuming you mean that's a nonsense statement, I can only say keep reading where I say I'm being naively idealistic. I don't know how it would work out. The way I've always thought would be to spend money on running an application and process centre in Indo. Get regional agreement with countries like Thailand, Indonesia, etc Apply there and it's a lottery as to where you go if approved. Maybe oz, maybe Thailand maybe indo etc. Basically fund a UN type refugee process in Indonesia if we can get agreement from regional countries. If you come here by boat you head back there and go through that process. Essentially set up a queue in indo. Assuming we can negotiate agreement with everyone.
That's the idealistic thinking. Dunno if it would work but i think something like that could work. the point is that I think there may be a way to stop people dying on boats (if that really is the goal) without punishing a bunch of others to the point that some of them are dying by setting themselves on fire.
You edited your comment so I missed the second bit in my reply. Yeah I voted for the greens because I disagree with what we're doing now. Neither major party will change that so I voted for someone who might. It's quite rational really.
Ok cool
As a protest vote, I voted for Xenophons candidate here.. Neither party deserved my direct vote. I gave my preference to Labor. There was fuck all to choose from.... I'm not totally happy with all of Xenophons policies (changes to senate voting), but by not voting for Labor or Liberal, I am showing my disconnect, statistically.
In the senate, I voted for the smaller senators that got shafted by, yep, Xenophon, Libs, and the greens... In a sliding scale, Xenophon will still probably end up with my vote, and if he doesn't it will end up with Labour..... But I like having a few ratbags in the senate....
Exactly Sheepy, Labor and LNP were last on my papers. I put One Nation ahead of them, and that's saying something.
So its all been done and dusted. In the House of reps I voted ALP, Ind, Greens and Libs last with a few in-between.
Senate I voted below the line with minor parties and independents getting my nod apart from a few Green senators and ALP types that I think are ok.
Its the first time I have researched all the candidates I have wanted to vote for. Going to watch interesting to see how they go.
One nation????????? Jesus, Andy!!!!!! Well I'll admit I put the libs second last ahead of Family first...... Can't really stomach faith based political parties...
Agree Sheepy. Faith based parties like the Libs.
I couldn't think of a bigger way to say F.U. , specifically with regards to the contempt that they appear to have for Australia and Australians.
Just came back from FNQ, judging by the opinions of the people I talked to up there, I reckon One Nation might surprise.
Well theres nothing wrong with diversity Andy.
Agreed mate, I'm absolutely ok with independents and "ratbags" forcing a discussion.
At this point in time I would view a clear majority by Labor as undesirable (as well as extremely unlikely) and a clear majority by the LNP as nothing less than a disaster.
Large swings away from the LNP across the country, including a 30% (!!) swing away from the Libs in the seat of Murray in northern Victoria.
The Libs previously held 3 of the 4 seats in Tasmania, looks like they will end up with none.
The bell-whether seat of Eden-Monaro is experiencing nearly a 6% swing away from the LNP to Labor.
Sign of things to come?
Wasn't expecting this. Hoping it, but not expecting it.
Excited Stu??
I suspect our mutual friend Dr Olive may be excited too.
Pretty funny the mainstream media tries to play people for fools with sensationalist headlines, the pollies try to play people for fools with slogans yet people regardless of intelligence can form opinions based upon personal situations. Wonder how many disenfranchised farmers are saying Fuck You Nationals.
You know Bec, Andy? Ha ha...I'm sure she's animated right now. Even more so than usual.
I had her as a lecturer and tutor last session - there's a lot of intelligence, passion and charisma going on there!
So in all probability a narrow win for the coalition ......and a dog's breakfast in the Senate if it follows the same pattern.
Blindboy, I'd rather what you call a "dog's breakfast" than a LNP majority.
Agreed Andy, but the trend towards one issue micro parties is not good. The senate ballot paper was ridiculous. It couldn't even be fully opened in the booth.
Haha, I was going to take it home and use it as a hall runner!
I normally number everything below the line, not this time.
LNP closing in on a win.
Sophie Mirabella done for a second time in Indi. It appears her, ahem, charm offensive failed.
If only Tony Abbott would suffer the same fate, but no such luck.
This result will only add to his rivalry with Turnbull and cause more instability within the party so there is a slight positive there.
One right wing Abbott supporting nutter gone - Nikolic loses in Tassie..... Shame Christensen got back in.. But hey you know Norh queenslanders..... They love their bible bashing gay hating anti boat people types..
Good point BB, that's an issue that will continue to bug the Libs.
Of course it unfortunately means that the far right remains strong.
True Andy but if Turnbull struggled in this election Abbott would have been smashed. The power of the Lib right wing is mainly structural, their policies are increasingly dysfunctional, anachronistic and irrelevant. If you look at the swings to Labour and the Greens tonight and that they were driven, I would think, by younger voters, when the right wing Libs rely on a much older demographic, it isn't hard to see where Australian politics are going over the next decade.
Andreas Bolt has ordered curry and thrown it Malcolm Turnbull's way. Well worth a read:
BB, my heart says that surely, Australia must reject these far right ideologies in the future but my head is doubtful.
For a start you're assuming that as people get older they're going to hold on to their more liberal beliefs whereas it seems that people get more conservative as they get older.
And I think that there are a lot of people or more accurately, a lot of electorates out there that will be increasingly freaked out by Australia's growing level of "non-white" immigration and I think it will be a while before people accept this. If you combine this with the usual dog-whistling and manipulation of the press, I'm seeing nationalism and knee-jerk conservatism being in play for a while yet.
Update - Pauline Hanson set to return to federal parliament.
Scott, it's twenty to eleven on election night, can you just answer that question straight.
I think Leigh Sales spoke for the country in that moment. They don't seem to realise yet that people are sick of having the pollies piss on our shoes and tell us it's raining.
Yep sco mo is in denial..... Alan Jones has had a hissy fit.....
I have warmed to Penny Wong..... She's ok......
Well Sheepy?
Wanna reflect on our discourse over the last 12-18 months about Bill and the importance of well argued policy?
Man, did you see Turnbull's speech tonight? the biggest overbaked speech in Australian political history ....... poor ole Malcolm, everyone's fault but his.
dead man walking ........
"Wasn't expecting this. Hoping it, but not expecting it."
Whys that Stu?
The polls had reflected this result for months.
A tepid, hold your nose acceptance of Turnbull from the conservatives and a rejection of him from everyone else.
He's a cooked goose.
Out of interest, why would you want a 50 / 50 or hung parliament ? I would have thought the recent Rudd/Gillard years indicated this may not be good for government.
At last, finally confirmed officially, Labor will sell the NBN. Personally, I did not think this was a key strategy for what I think is probably the most important bit of infrastructure we have.
A hung parliament is great. Solid checks on power. Negotiation and consensus is the order of the day to get things done. Clearly the Australian public like it as a collective. Only the parties are too immature to deal with it but they better start growing up and learning to deal.
The only reason the last one didn't work was because the parties and their players didn't like it. Not because hung parliaments are inherently unstable. Lots of important legislation passed, chaos ensued because of personality politics. We can have the latter without the former if they can grow up a bit.
For anyone interested in avoiding the hack media balderdash and self-important fluffing, check the AEC TALLY ROOM site.
I'D PUT A DIRECT LINK BUT I FUCKEN CAN'T.
Just google AEC TALLY ROOM.
And be surprised, pleasantly, or not, or not at all!
From reading about it, thats also my understanding Benski.
Personally despite doing a donkey vote, I'm happy with the outcome, i like the idea of a hung parliament its kind of the closest you can get to having both Liberal and Labor in.
And kinda thought Libs should go one more round, then next time go back to Labor.
Im also happy to see Pauline Hanson get in, just to piss everyone off especially the far left, that is gold, I'm sure i will get sick of hearing and seeing her, but it will still be worth it.
yep best result you could have expected
also agree with benski ID, a senate you have to work with isn't a bad thing. keeps policies in check, and LNP policies have needed some checking!! I didn't really like anything Gillard did but she showed a reasonable person can work with a hung parliment
LNP have shown if they can't get their way you have a hissy fit
lambe put that liberal guy in hus place - the star wars bar is the new norm, learn to work with it
Floyd writes;
"Well Sheepy?
Wanna reflect on our discourse over the last 12-18 months about Bill and the importance of well argued policy?"
I'd love to.......... I totally stand by everything I have written about Bill Shorten...... Firstly, I'll take you back to my comment posted directly to you in your thread "Tony Turnbull has got nothin but another fear campaign", posted 30/3/2016
- "Floyd, I might have to take back my "Shunter hasn't got a hope in hell" line..... Turnbull is imploding... It's a shambles..... Blurt might do a Steve Bradbury...."
And that is exactly what has happened, or NEARLY happened..... Labor last night had the 2nd lowest primary vote in its history... Not much better than Rudd..... It was people walking away from the coalition, not people running to Shorten in droves..... A 2% swing and a primary vote of 35.4% to labor? A total reliance on green preferences..
sheeps you said all that but me still thinks you were a late disciple to the altar of policy over personality when it came to Billy; if we think back to the beginning particularly ...... anyway we digress ... question for ya sheeps, what was the Liberal Party's primary vote, not the LNP, just the Liberal Party's? ... along with other urban myths the Liberals like to quote Labor's primary vote while turning a blind eye to their own (I note the Nationals vote is up by the way and with an overall swing against the LNP the swing away from the Liberals must be staggering!!). I await your answer sheeps.
Tony Turnbull is well up against it now:
Reduced majority in the Reps.
Loss of moderates in the parliamentary party thereby strengthening the ultra right.
Increased Nationals vote meaning more cabinet positions to the Nationals (and their ultra conservative views on all things after 1950).
More cross bench members in both houses to deal with (noting historical inability of Libs to negotiate with the cross bench at all).
The likes of Hinch and Hansen to deal with otherwise known as leaders of the lobotomised (that's for you indo).
An irate supporter base over the changes to superannuation and how that will play out in the party room.
The plebiscite and how that will play out in the Libs, Nationals, cross bench, Greens and Labor before it even gets to the public for a vote.
The zombie budget measures from the 2014 and 2015 budgets and how they link in with the now crippled 2016 budget and how the Libs will argue its merits in the parliament and with its ultra conservatives, the Nationals, the cross bench, the Greens and Labor .i.e. they have no economic plan going forward matching the economic constipation we have had for the last 3 years.
The fact that the LNP's bullshit direct action measures on carbon abatement are now coming to their useful(?) political and practical life and how the LNP now need to actually move to a market based mechanism to fix a carbon price and again how that will play out with the flat earthers in the LNP.
Look I could go on for some time here; Turnbull and his party has really messed up and it speaks volumes for the increasing broken and discredited conservative narrative about trickle down economics and small and low taxing governments.
To (mis)quote Turnbull, there has never been a worse time to be the Prime Minister of a broken down and discredited government. Hereon-in its going to be a very bumpy roller coaster ride for the LNP with a likely derailment sometime soon.
In the meantime.....the LNP won.
I normally put both major parties last and any crazy independent parties first, as for me there all as bad as each other and anything they say they will rarely do.
But this time, im voting labour for Kevin, i was happy to see karma come around and bite Julia and of all the people in politics since good old Bob Hawk, i like Kevin the best.
He's proven him self to be a fighter hes come back from what seem like the dead, to me i think he has what it takes to be a leader a leader needs to be a bit arrogant and do what they believe, I also like that he understands the importance of Australia's relationship with SE asia, obviously like any politician and political party, he's far from perfect and any government is going to waste money, the way i look at it at least with things like NBN we will all be of benefit, and i want damn fast internet through my smart TV.
On the other hand i cant stand Tony, he just seems so negative plus i know its silly but i just cant trust people who wear budgie smugglers, i really have no idea why the Liberals stick with him, plus Liberals seem good at managing money but they only seem to look after the people who have heaps of money.
So who ya, going to vote for?
PS. lets keep it civil yeah :)