So who are you going to vote for?

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming started the topic in Thursday, 8 Aug 2013 at 5:05pm

I normally put both major parties last and any crazy independent parties first, as for me there all as bad as each other and anything they say they will rarely do.

But this time, im voting labour for Kevin, i was happy to see karma come around and bite Julia and of all the people in politics since good old Bob Hawk, i like Kevin the best.

He's proven him self to be a fighter hes come back from what seem like the dead, to me i think he has what it takes to be a leader a leader needs to be a bit arrogant and do what they believe, I also like that he understands the importance of Australia's relationship with SE asia, obviously like any politician and political party, he's far from perfect and any government is going to waste money, the way i look at it at least with things like NBN we will all be of benefit, and i want damn fast internet through my smart TV.

On the other hand i cant stand Tony, he just seems so negative plus i know its silly but i just cant trust people who wear budgie smugglers, i really have no idea why the Liberals stick with him, plus Liberals seem good at managing money but they only seem to look after the people who have heaps of money.

So who ya, going to vote for?

PS. lets keep it civil yeah :)

wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Thursday, 8 Aug 2013 at 5:18pm

Funny thing is I live here, but I'm not allowed to vote?
Figure that one out.

I vote for Neptune?

No Huey

The sea god?.....

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Thursday, 8 Aug 2013 at 7:47pm

I did that Vote Compass thing and it turns out I'm left of Labor & towards the Greens which, in historical terms probably means I'm an old fashion Labor man ..... things have move sadly to the right for both parties.

For the last few State & Federal elections I have voted informal in the lower house & Greens in the Upper.

Both Rudd & Abbott are beyond redemption in my book so I look at the quality of the ministers or ministers elect and on this assessment Labor seem to have the better quality people & ministers. Half of Abbott's front bench were there with Howard (and that disqualifies them as serious politicians in my estimation) and the newbys seem to be from the ultra right such is the conservative parties these days. So on balance if I vote formally in the Reps it will probably favour the ALP although I hate the idea of rewarding Rudd for his 3 years of white-anting Gillard.

Only my view okay, you are welcome to differ.

I add if the sky does fall in and Abbott gets it I only hope the carbon pricing thing survives so in this regard I'm hoping Australia doesn't give the bastard control of the Senate.

carpetman's picture
carpetman's picture
carpetman commented Thursday, 8 Aug 2013 at 9:40pm

I was hoping you'd be running Indo, you've got my vote. You've probably directly helped more people than either of the other two, at least on here.

In saying that I have so much distaste for Tony I feel like I'm forced to vote Rudd. Not sure whether I'll be able to do it yet.

Indo D for president!

kaiser's picture
kaiser's picture
kaiser commented Thursday, 8 Aug 2013 at 10:21pm

Wow.... I'm sorry, I don't really like Abbott although I usually vote Lib, but I could think of nothing worse than continuing with the same shit we have been dealing with for 6 years. And it's not only them, but the way we as a community react off them.

Elections are great things for encouraging a societal mindset - a quantum shift in sentiment that can pull a country out of malaise and give it the kick up the arse it needs. Oz needs a monumental kick in the arse for the complacency and 'entitlement' mentality that it has been on ever since the slightly-more-socialist socialist major party got into power.

If Kev stays in, more of the same. If the others get in, the excuses might (should) stop, and we may well see the engine room of Australia actually get its shit together again - at least for a while. I reckon that's worth the risk of whatever else may come with it. The court of public opinion should keep any loose cannons in check to some extent.

I may end up eating my words, but it's a chance I'm more than ready to take.

fitzroy-21's picture
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fitzroy-21 commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 9:02am

Bloody tough one this one Indo.

Personally can't stand Rudd. Egomaniac/sociopath etc trying to buy votes. So desperate, he gets Beattie in now for Forde at the expense of a local bloke that has been loyal and worked hard for the area he lives in. Beattie says he'll move there if he wins. What a wanker. Rudd did the same in '07 with the likes of Peter Garret etc.

Abbott, can't stand that prick either. Has the personality and people skills of termite. Couldn't trust him any more or less than Rudd. As mentioned elsewhere, why have the Libs stuck with him.

All the independents etc mean well but get screwed by the majority. So, for me, I am just going to watch closely and carefully and make my decision on the day.

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 9:05am

No offense Wellymon, but there is a reason for you not being able to vote in this country, and that is because you are not Australian, you are obviously not naturalised. Take the oath and you can vote. Simple. If you don't want to be an Aussie you can always go back to NZ, I hear it's a great country, green hills, snow capped mountains, hobbits ,cows.....the list goes on.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 10:07am

I'm a left leaning voter and won't be pretending otherwise. But I also wouldn't want Labor to always be in power. The beauty of a democracy is being able to get the attributes of both sides of politics and hopefully the country can benefit from this balance.
All the leadership personality issues aside, the question is now the time to change? We have Labor midway through implementing some big reforms and the Coalition with a policy platform to undo many of these reforms. When Labor was in opposition they opposed the GST but when they came into power wisely left it in place.
If governments get into a cycle of undoing the previous governments changes as a country we will be at best treading water, not moving forward and it sets a dangerous precedent. Is it really what we want for future governments to just go in circles undoing each others policies with each change of power?

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 10:35am

I'll be voting for the Libs, and hoping that Abbott gets rolled by Turnbull during his first term. Remember Abbott only won the leadership ballot by one vote, and it was all over the ETS, an issue Turnbull had the guts and integrity to cross floor over. RESPECT. As far as the upper house goes I always look for someone who will, to use a well worn cliché 'keep the bastards honest' at the same time allowing the government to implement positive change while questioning an arresting bad policy. Where I am it is a no-brainer Nick Xenophon is the man.

wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 11:31am

Salt, I knew this would spark someone up and I appreciate your call fair enough (Tu Meke).
I feel I am naturalised here, Ive married a beautiful Australian lady who can put my two bobs worth into vote, I can surf your beautiful waves, I can drink your beautiful beer, I can respect and appreciate your beautiful country as well as the aboriginal culture, I live in such a beautiful place in the hinterland with beautiful fauna and flora, I have come close to witnessing the elusive beautiful Yowie and I reckon Ive mingled with some strange beautiful Australian hobbits to say the least. I do honestly feel Im naturalised in my own realm of being in your country.
No offense Salt as you have quoted " If you don't want to be an Aussie"! No I am not an Aussie , I am proud to be your next door neighbour with a free right to live here, I never made the rules! Apparently they have changed tho. Lucky for me
To tell you the truth Salt, I hate politics and has taken me years to understand these peanuts. I honestly don't think my one vote would make much difference anyhow!..
Cheers
P.S. Tu Meke means in Maori - Fair enough or All good - or Fair Dinkum.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 11:45am

Every vote counts wellymon.

wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 12:26pm

True

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 12:40pm

I was hoping you'd be running Indo, you've got my vote. You've probably directly helped more people than either of the other two, at least on here.

In saying that I have so much distaste for Tony I feel like I'm forced to vote Rudd. Not sure whether I'll be able to do it yet.

Indo D for president!

By: "carpetman"

Ha ha thanks, but im sure id really screw things up, i have some pretty out there views.

Plus i wouldn't get much done id spend all the tax payers money on trips to Indo by using the excuse that i need to get to the root of the asylum seeker issue and improve relations with our largest neighbour.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 1:24pm
wellymon's picture
wellymon's picture
wellymon commented Friday, 9 Aug 2013 at 3:26pm

Ben where did you find that one, ha ha
Good one Henry.
Is he Chinese?, Big family , wasn't it supposed to be one?...

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Thursday, 15 Aug 2013 at 7:50pm

The Labour Party has promised a surplus for 2016/17. The first since 1985. How could you go past that ?

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Thursday, 15 Aug 2013 at 10:18pm

Surpluses & who are the better economic managers?

Article in The Age yesterday highlighted this ......

Fraser inherited a balance budget from Whitlam.
Hawke/Keating inherited a deficit from Fraser (Howard was Treasurer remember).
Howard inherited a balanced budget from Hawke / Keating.
Rudd inherited a surplus from Howard.

The article also went into great detail on the three ways Howard generated this surplus.
They were:
1. Assets sales;
2. Record high levels of tax receipts; and
3. Record low in expenditure on infrastructure.

No political spin, all facts.

Next time you hear Action Man Tony boast about the glory years under Howard just remember Howard: flogged what he could, took more tax than any previous government and ran down the sort of infrastructure a strong economy needs.

Strong economic managers, pig's arse they are.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 16 Aug 2013 at 1:24pm

Image

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Friday, 16 Aug 2013 at 7:37pm

Treasurer Chris Bowen said "During the resources boom from 2003 to 2013 , resource investment increased from 1.8% share of the economy to an estimated 8.1% .
Until recently ,our terms of trade were as high as they have been since federation - indeed at their peak, 60% higher than their average across the 20th century.
This gave us a windfall of roughly 15% of gross domestic product."
Basically put in lay men's terms ,the revenue has never been better , yet what do we have to show for it ?
A $ 300 billion deficit that is costing the country 12 billion a year in interest. And not much else.
The labour government raked in almost $365 billion this financial year ,compared to $211 billion in the Howard governments last financial year in office.
Labour has collected $1.54 trillion over the past five years , 45% more than the Howard government collected in its last five years.
The point Im making with my last post is that the Labour Party has promised a surplus for the past five years and now promises to deliver a surplus in 2015/16 .yet looking at past form you just can't believe the lying bastards.
If you think the Labour Party has been good for Australia then your fooling yourself.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Friday, 16 Aug 2013 at 10:45pm

You need to get out more grocer I saw a good example recently of where some of that money you say Labor wasted has been spent.
Go for a road trip up through Northern NSW to SE Qld, one of the busiest highways in the country.
Man that road has really improved with billions spent on bypasses around Tweed Heads, Brunswick Heads, and Ballina. There's also a tunnel nearly complete to avoid that dangerous bottlneck of a hill up behind Byron.
Improving transport corridors such as this increases productivity and safety. This road was severely neglected for the entire 12 years Howard was in power, and is just one example of why a pursuit of endless surpluses by neglecting infrastructure is not always in the long term interest of a nation.

Howard also sold out a lot of wealth generating publicly owned assets to achieve his fiscal goals.

Here's an example of some of what was sold-
Commonwealth Bank: Howard floats 51% at $10.40 a share.(what's the share price today?)
Commonwealth Funds Management: trade sale that raised $63 million.
Airports: sale of separate long-term leasehold interests in Brisbane,
Melbourne and Perth airports generating gross proceeds of of $3.31 Billion.
Australian National Rail: trade sale that raised $95 million. Brisbane Airport trade sale that raised $1.4 billion.
Melbourne Airport: trade sale that raised $1.3 billion. Perth Airport; trade sale that raised $643 million.
Telstra: initial public float that raised $14.3 billion.
Adelaide Airport: sold to Parafield and Adelaide Airport LTD for $467 million.
Darwin & Alice springs Airport: sold to Alice Springs & Darwin International Airport PTY LTD for $108 Million.
Canberra airport: sold to Consortium led by the Snow Brother's for $65 million.
Hobart airport: sold to Hobart international Airport PTY LTD for $35 million.
Australian Industry Development Corporation: trade sale that Raised $200 million.
Broadcast Australia: Howard sells the SBS and ABC transmission towers for $650 Million.
National Rail corporation and Freightcorp: Howard Government received $1.05 billion from Toll holdings and Patrick corp for it’s rail assets.
Sold 167 tonnes of gold, returning just $2.4billion for the gold that was sold via a “single broker engaged without tender”.(look at the price of gold today!)

Now I think Abbott will win the election and despite the fact that I don't really like the guy I'm sure the sky won't fall in. It's just a pity he is so hellbent on reversing some important national reforms with no real gain for the country;
•The Emission Trading Scheme vs his Direct Action. Is there anyone who seriously thinks its a better plan?
•Inferior NBN that will need to be upgraded anyway as Internet usage increases in the medium term.
•The Resource Rent Tax that with a bit of tweeking would have created a long term revenue source for future governments.

You really need to to remove your rosé coloured glasses grocer and see the real cost of the Howard years. Ageing decaying infrastructure and one off sales for short term objectives that otherwise would have generated ongoing revenue for the country into the future.

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

barley's picture
barley's picture
barley commented Friday, 16 Aug 2013 at 11:02pm

I still can't believe people have faith in the NBN..They are basically wasting billions to dig trenches..The cables are only 15% of the cost compared to the groundwork to get the nbn to different locations.In ten/15 yrs it will be obsolete and a more quicker efficient way of transporting data will exist and then what?we are stuck with this huge bill.
Another example is global warming or climate change."The greatest moral challenge of our time"!! Who said it can only be a negative thing..I am a farmer and the past 5 years have been the most prolific in a generation.
I do think Labor have Abbott bent over about his costings..which were proven to be way off in the last election..Whose running Rudds campaign this time? in Kevin07 he dominated advertising with hard-hitting and amusing ad's..not so so far..the funniest ad's I have seen have been Clive Palmer's. I couldn't vote for him ...could I??
Who watches The Gruen Transfer?

barley's picture
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barley commented Friday, 16 Aug 2013 at 11:32pm

SKRILLEX vs TONY ABBOTT..abbottrang short but funny on youtube!!

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Saturday, 17 Aug 2013 at 12:16am

Yorkes, where did you cut and paste that from, 'Independent Australia'? I realise you are a die hard lefty but for fuck sake where is some sort of balance? I know fuck all, but I know that as much as I thought Howard was a wanker and disagreed with many of his old fashioned ideals, my family wasn't doing it half as bad as what we are doing it now. At the end of the day that is what it comes down to. We out here in middle class Australia are hurting with the cost of petrol, rates, power, gas, taxes, fucking speeding tickets , whatever, it has gone up faster than our wages (unless you are working in the mines). Fuck it, it's time to try the other team again, if they fuck up like the current crooks have, we vote them out, simple.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Saturday, 17 Aug 2013 at 7:51am

Hey salty, I was responding to grocer's "balanced" comment above mine.

grocer wrote; "The labour government raked in almost $365 billion this financial year ,compared to $211 billion in the Howard governments last financial year in office."

Now my point was that if you invest little in infrastructure and engage in a fire sale of assets, you can obviously skew the figures to make it look like you are extraordinary money managers.

But if your experience and the majority of Australians agree and perceive that things are so bad right now then we will have a change of government and I hope you get your wish that Abbott can make your life miraculously better. I won't hold my breath!

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Saturday, 17 Aug 2013 at 10:01am

Wayne Swan, budget speech, May 11
Every dollar of new policy in this budget has been offset across the forward estimates, as we meet the strict confines of our responsible fiscal strategy. A strategy that will see the budget return to surplus in three years’ time, three years ahead of schedule, and ahead of every major advanced economy.
Julia Gillard on getting back into surplus in three years, August 18
Failure is not an option.
Penny Wong, Oct 13
The need for discipline and rigour is patent. That is why the government has made it clear that the return to surplus is not negotiable.
Julia Gillard, February 1
Returning the budget to surplus is thus not a political goal but an economic imperative.
Wayne Swan, budget speech, May 10
We’ll be back in the black by 2012-13, on time, as promised.
Wayne Swan, budget speech, May 8
This Budget delivers a surplus this coming year, on time, as promised, and surpluses each year after that, strengthening over time.
Julia Gillard, July 4
Look at our decisive action in the global financial crisis: we saved jobs, stayed out of recession and got back to surplus.
Wayne Swan, December 20
Obviously, dramatically lower tax revenue now makes it unlikely that there will be a surplus in 2012-13.

Credit to brc at catallaxy files. Excellent site ,check it out.

Im not concerned with the Howard years ,they are long gone. Im concerned with the last six years of Labour lies ,spin and incompetence.
Wayne Swan is the perfect example of that ,promising one thing but delivering the exact opposite .
You might trust them but I certainly don't.

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Sunday, 18 Aug 2013 at 10:51pm

Although Im not that fussed about Tony Abbott, it appears that stunet,with his witty and thought provoking imput dislikes the Liberal Party and all that they stand for.
So this is for you little fella .
Latest betting odds Liberal Party 10/1 favourites .
Don't you just love democracy.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 12:38pm

Hey grocer you will have your chance to gloat in a few weeks time when the election is done and dusted. I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed witnessing the born to rule Liberals engaging in the longest dummy spit in Australian political history for the last 6 years. Seeing the hate media like Alan Jones, Ray Hadley and Murdochs' bunny Andrew Bolt, even minion's like nick3 on here work themselves up into a lather has also been amusing. But the wheel turns, that's democracy.

I'm glad Labor had the opportunity to save Australia from the GFC and kept us out of recession, got rid of Workchoices, apologised to the stolen generation, made massive improvements to infrastructure, increased incomes for pensioners, introduced The National Disability Insurance Scheme, improved schools and education standards, and made a genuine attempt to reduce pollution in the environment.

Abbott appears to have a lot of energy and he is gonna need it because winning the election isn't the end game. The real challenge of running the country is just starting. I genuinely hope he does a really good job of it because the most important thing is Australia's interests. It's a pity the Coalition didn't think like this in opposition. They seemed to want the economy and the refugee problem to deteriorate to suit their political objectives. That's pretty fucked up if you ask me?

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 12:50pm

Well said YS.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 2:47pm

I still can't believe people have faith in the NBN..They are basically wasting billions to dig trenches..The cables are only 15% of the cost compared to the groundwork to get the nbn to different locations.In ten/15 yrs it will be obsolete and a more quicker efficient way of transporting data will exist and then what?we are stuck with this huge bill.
Another example is global warming or climate change."The greatest moral challenge of our time"!! Who said it can only be a negative thing..I am a farmer and the past 5 years have been the most prolific in a generation.
I do think Labor have Abbott bent over about his costings..which were proven to be way off in the last election..Whose running Rudds campaign this time? in Kevin07 he dominated advertising with hard-hitting and amusing ad's..not so so far..the funniest ad's I have seen have been Clive Palmer's. I couldn't vote for him ...could I??
Who watches The Gruen Transfer?

By: "barley"

Where did you get the info that the NBN would be obsolete in 10-15 years?

Have a read of this http://nbnconcerns.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/obsolete/

There is absolutely nothing to say that there will ever be anything faster and being able to handle as much data as fibre, there is physical limitations on everything.

Wireless has huge limitations and comparing cooper to fibre is like comparing a horse and cart to a jet fighter plane, they just don't compare, I urge everybody to do a bit of reading up on it, don't just believe the crap you read in the media, most people really don't understand how much better it is.

kaiser's picture
kaiser's picture
kaiser commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 3:39pm

Salt, I reckon the reason you're doing it tougher is cos lazy buggers are doing it easier at your expense. If you think back to the Howard years (and the general ethos of Libs over the years) if you worked hard, you did well. If you couldn't be fucked, it wasn't made easy for you. I have genuine concerns that there is a real trend through many generations where people think it should all be laid out for them. I come across people every day, people who are actually of decent means, but they still look for what they can get out of the govt. And the real shame of it is that there is pretty much always something for them to get.

I have nothing against helping the disabled, and those who have a valid reason to be assisted by the greater popultaion, but the sense of entitlement and 'welfare state' mentality that has crept into the psyche of Australians while under Labor has turned us into parasites, not contributors.

We actually need migrants because we have an ageing population and need productivity to generate enough tax receipts to support what is required for the elderly. I'd rather give some assistance to someone who wants to come here and work his ring off to make this place better, than some prick who thinks because he was born here that he can have a free ride through life.

Regarding NBN, I have no cable where I live and survive fine off off wireless. I don't see any value in 43bil+ so people can get Game Of Thrones season 12 in a millisecond. Let's face it, if you're in a private residence and need huge bandwidth, wtf are you doing? And why do I need to pay so you can have it? And how many people will actually ever need it? I think there will be good advances in wireless and with a country of this size, going through the air is by far the better option.

carpetman's picture
carpetman's picture
carpetman commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 4:12pm

Last week I drove to a rural area to attend a meeting. It was 4hrs there and 4hrs back. I sat in that meeting for 1 hr. My productivity during those 8hrs of driving was zip.

Sometimes only after a system is up and running is the full potential realised. The NBN will be a life changer.

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 4:22pm

Hey kaiser,

I take it then you will have no issues with all those middle class welfare initiatives Howard introduced being abolished or at least means tested when Big Joe is treasurer?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/middle-class-junkies-...

There you go I'm even quoting a Murdoch owned shit-sheet.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 4:32pm

Good example carpetman. I remember years ago thinking 512K ADSL was the dog's bollocks. As if we'd ever need anything faster than that.

People also fall into the trap of assuming the internet's only for downloading movies, and that any increase in speed will only benefit those kinds of activities. The reality is that everything is interconnected via the web these days. And there are technologies still yet to be developed that will at some point become irreplaceable, and they'll need fibre in order to work properly.

kaiser - the problem with wireless is that it's not scalable. Try accessing your 3G/4G connection in North Sydney - often the internet crawls to a stop because of the huge number of concurrent users. Here's a quick summary: http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/why-not-wireless/

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 4:45pm

Good links indo-dreaming and Ben, well worth a read!

There's a quote in one of those links from the Chief Engineer of the British Post Office who said in 1876;
'The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.'

Another one is from Thomas Watson in 1943, as Chairman of IBM;
'I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.'

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

barley's picture
barley's picture
barley commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 5:41pm

Good points both of you make @ Ben and YS. exactly how much of the cost for the NBN is for digging the trenches or the labor of it? It would be good to see the breakdown of the cost..labor, materials. With the way the system gets rorted I can see the 31bil will turn into double that..IF it ever gets finished!..which it won't! call me a pessimist or a realist which ever makes you feel better!.
At the moment there is an Adelaide company developing a graphite battery that not only stores power but it stores such a large amount if every household had one the power companies would basically have nothing to sell us.
Technology is forever evolving.wireless might be shit now..but its bloody good compared to dial-up out in the bush. I'm not saying wireless is the answer but I don't think the nbn is going to benefit me.
@ carpet man did you stop at a servo on the way through? buy a coke? or maybe a local bakery and got some lunch? hell you might've even had a countery at a pub on the way? where would those dollars have gone if you sat behind your computer screen for 8hrs? Local communities/economies would have been very grateful for your $$ I would think!!

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 6:20pm

Id like to vote Labor, becuase as YS has said the Liberals will do anything to get in, because they are ruthless business man types, but being a ruthless business man type is what makes them better with the economy, or the budget at least.

Although YS wont agree, they are better with the economy (that should be budget) because they run a tight ship. Whereas everything labor does, they do it in a grandiose " we are restoring the balance/ or revolutionising" kind of way, NDIS, Gonski, NBN, education revelution etc. all well intentioned but neccessary? I think not. yeh NBN will be good for you video collecting computer nerds, but I hardly use my computer since getting a smartphone, and I think most people are the same, if you have to plug into something to do it, not interested, no matter how fast you can download the latest Kardashian sex episode, or upload your latest sex episode, or whatever the kids are doing with this stuff. and Labor draws comparisons to Singapore or Europe when talking about the NBN and being on par. Well Australia is a very large country, with a very sparse population, hardly comparable to Singapore when you talk about providing services. Yeh the bush might need it for hospitals etc. but to every house over vast area? seriously can any country afford that?

YS is right Kaiser, Howard squandared the mining boom with middle class welfare and tax cuts. All still with us, even though now the world economy is fucked (and that is what influences our economy, not Labor or Liberal, despite what they tell us). but both sides are too chicken to get rid of them because voters are too stupid to see past what they are going to get. And now Liberals are spruking their paid maternity leave scheme, if you are going to vote Liberal ask yourself, does Australia really have the money to pay rich people up to $200 000 to have a baby, especially in the present economic conditions? and even if we have the money, is it morally right? but this policy was developed through the boom years and Abbott jumped on it to soften his manly persona. Abbott defends everything with "it worked under a Howard government" well Abbott Howard is gone (than fuck), you are not Howard and the times have changed considerably, but your party is holding onto a golden era (of a mining boom, not exceptional mangement)to push every policy.

So to the question of this post "So who are you going to vote for?"
I would like to vote green, because they generally align with my view of the world, but they seem to be living in fairyland when they talk about the economy or asylum seekers, so cannot vote for them.

I would like to vote Labor, but with their incompetence and wasting of money over the recent period they have even destroyed my non objective love for Peter Garrett (I thought he could save the world) but he turned out as useless as anyone, so cant vote for them.

I need the democrats, they were the only ones who had a balanced thought-out view on anything but they died, so I will vote for any independants who do not preference Abbott, fuck do I have to fill out all those boxes?

kaiser's picture
kaiser's picture
kaiser commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 6:31pm

I'm obviously not totally across all the technologies (at the risk of sounding like a pollie), but surely there is a mix that could be achieved. Ben, as I said in previous post, if you're in a private residence and need enormous bandwidth for something that is productive, you are in a serious minority. Carpetman, you obviously have a real reason as to why you need something like the NBN. If say, the govt put fibre to the node, maybe you would see a commercial reason as to why you should stump up for access to such infrastructure, and pay for it. Fibre to the premises of every househeold in Aus is way overkill, and such money would go better elsewhere I believe.

I have also lived where I had super-speed cable and I see a small difference, but it aint third-world stuff.

I just saw an article on nine news about whether the NBN is any good, and all they concentrated on was how quickly they could download a funny cat you tube clip, or music and movies. Forgive my generalisations but I reckon this is what 99% of residences will get out of it. Businesses? That's another matter and maybe the money could go towards that instead.

There's also another saying about where to put the cart in relation to the horse.

carpetman's picture
carpetman's picture
carpetman commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 7:27pm

Hi Barley,

Yes, on the way back I stopped at a servo, filled up with fuel and brought a coke. A total cost of approx. $67.00. The client for this current job is a department of government, not all of the funding but much of it comes from this department, the company I work for charges clients $150/hr for my services. A total of $1200 spent to sit in a car. If I were in a position to use those 8hrs productively that's $1200 could have been better spent elsewhere.

kaiser's picture
kaiser's picture
kaiser commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 7:41pm

Hi Floyd,

Yes I believe any welfare to anyone who does not need it is just vote grabbing, paying the price of an election promise or a feeble attempt at achieving a balance. Happy to pass up all of it as I never seem to qualify for any of it anyway for one reason or another.

Wow Carpetman! Maybe your company wouldn't want to stump up for NBN. If NBN was in place, your $1200 payday off the govt would have become $150 for your company. You sure you want it?

carpetman's picture
carpetman's picture
carpetman commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 8:05pm

Haha. I still get paid the same amount regardless of how much the company I work for gets paid. And I should add its a lot less than $150/hr. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'd rather my taxes spent on something other than a person sitting in a car.

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 9:49pm

At least you put forward your argument Yorkessurfer,although I don't agree .All stunet can do is throw out a snigger and then go and hide under his bed.
The Labour Party inherited a bank balance of 20 billion . Australia was the only country in the world that had no debt.
We also had the mining boom that was giving the government huge revenue.
We also had a well regulated banking system that was untouched by the financial crises.
All these points saved Australia from the GFC , not the Labour Party's pissing money up the wall.Although I did appreciate the new board bought from the stimulus.
Australia's debt has gone from zero to $13000 per person in six years.Still a lot less than other countries on the brink of collapse , but Ausralia has one of the fastest growing debts in the world.
Kevin Rudd says he has a new way . A new way my arse,it's the same old Kevin with the same old lies and bullshit.
All Kevin knows how to do is throw money away .
Take the car industry for example .They change the fringe benefits tax which affects car sales so they throw 700 million tax payer dollars at the car industry as compensation.Fucking clueless.
And Kevs got a new way,
.Look at the last six years ,it's been a farce, they've got nothing to be proud of ,that's why Kevin tells us he has a new way .Please

rattle's picture
rattle's picture
rattle commented Monday, 19 Aug 2013 at 10:53pm

There are significant differences between the Labor & the LNP but mostly they share common ground.

I support Labor's NDIS, Gonski, Carbon Pricing & the NBN. They are all worthy nation building initiatives which I hope remain unaltered by the LNP if they get in. I also like most, but not all, of the things Labor did during the global financial crisis. Those $900 cheques were bullshit. There has been some very high highs and some darn low lows over the last 6 years under Labour.

The biggest low for me has been the treatment of refugees by both Labor and the LNP.

I don't like Abbott at all. I distrust the character of the man and many of the people around him. I think Turnbull and Hockey are decent characters but I wonder what influence they will have Abbott. I dislike the way the LNP have banged on about how they will manage the economy better (a proposition I don't readily agree with) but refuse to release their costings. Its dishonest in my book. The truth about this surplus thing is Howard got his surplus from massive tax receipts, asset sales and record low levels of spending on infrastructure. Any idiot can do that. If the LNP is to get us back to surplus it will be by cutting expenditure and/or increasing taxes, but they aren't saying.

I liked the independents in the last parliament and lament their retirement, all decent politicians and men.

Truth is, I'm feed up with both major parties so I'll be voting Greens again.

grocer's picture
grocer's picture
grocer commented Tuesday, 20 Aug 2013 at 9:08pm

Hey Rattle ,
What do you think of the greens doing a preference deal with mining magnate Clive Palmers Party.
One of his projects is a huge coal mine in the Galilee basin in central Queensland.
Only two weeks ago the Greens stated they were horrified by the huge mine proposal going ahead now they are doing a preference deal with the bloke who owns the mine .
A party really standing up for what they believe in

rattle's picture
rattle's picture
rattle commented Wednesday, 21 Aug 2013 at 8:55am

One of the things I just love about the Greens, independents and smaller political parties is how in developing their policies (often different to the big two) they really get up the noses of the conservatives and sometimes the ALP. And why do they do that? its because they aren't easily bought or controlled by the press or paid lobbyists, unlike the big two.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Wednesday, 21 Aug 2013 at 11:50am

What do people think of Abbott's generous new paid parental leave scheme?
There's a lot of talk in the media this morning that the 1.5% levy on big business wont cover even half of the total cost of this scheme?
And self funded retiree's like my parents will bear the brunt of the costs as the cuts to the company tax rates wont be extended to franking credits paid on dividends. The hit will be around $1.6 billion dollars a year to retiree's income on their superannuation!
So the rest will have to come out of government revenue and be paid for by cuts in other areas of the budget, that's if they are "fair dinkum" about balancing the budget?
Or they could just blame their black hole's on Labor for the next however many years they are in power which is more likely given past form.
Also, the scheme is open to abuse from unscrupulous businesses. There's nothing to stop a business owner increasing a female family members wages to $150,000 the week before she goes on maternity leave, scoop the $75,000 for six months, then return them to their usual wage when they return to work.

Now some have mentioned Labor pissing money up the wall on things like school improvements, insulating peoples homes, and the NBN.
I have to ask, how much was spent on the Iraq war that the Coalition mindlessly got us into last time they were in power?
What have we got to show for that?
How many Australian military lives were lost, not to mention the cost to Iraq?
We destroyed their country and killed hundreds of thousands of their people. And now they turn up on boats on our doorstep!
All based on a lie?

The only leg Australia has to stand on.....

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Wednesday, 21 Aug 2013 at 8:00pm

Yorkes, whoever are in power will tow the USAs line, not just the coalition. I didn't agree with going to either conflict in the middle east but when the yanks call as always we come running. As far as the paid parental leave goes I agree it's crap policy, but Rudd will go on and on and on about it because it is all he has got. Just like he spent two days going on about Abbott saying some woman had sex appeal.

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Wednesday, 21 Aug 2013 at 8:13pm

All good and valid points YS. That's a pretty big war bill (of waste) that no-one is talking about especially the conservative press.

Salt's point about arse licking the yanks is also true but not for the Greens nor our NZ brothers across the ditch. Both sides of politics in NZ support the ban on US warships and they have something we Australians could only dream of i.e. an independent foreign policy.

Abbott's PPL is a poorly designed policy, an over-reach just to show women he gets them. Wrong. Expensive, poorly targeted, cuts across what is already in place at a Commonwealth, State and Corporate level and if he was serious about equality he would put the cash directly into funding more child care places. Its affordable child care places that encourage women into the workforce, helps them to return after giving birth and helps them stay in the workforce over the longer term. Just about every economist in the country will tell you that but Action Man isn't listening.

salt's picture
salt's picture
salt commented Wednesday, 21 Aug 2013 at 9:26pm

Floyd, you are right about the greens and NZ, but the Kiwis are also safe in the knowledge that we will always be there if there is any trouble, and we follow the yanks so they are there for us. So in the end the Kiwis get the best of both worlds, independence from the USA on one hand and back up from some big brothers in the other.
I like a lot of the green ideals and some of their policies, but I just don't take them seriously enough to vote for them in the lower house, they would bankrupt us in a day, my view.
Child care.......ahhh don't get me started, our family forks out heaps on it, but what do you do. When the kids are old enough and we don't need it, hopefully we have built our careers up enough to make some hay., hopefully.
I'll say it again, bring on September 7, so it will all be over. At least the Essendon saga has stolen some of the news time this week.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Thursday, 22 Aug 2013 at 6:56am

You fellas taken the 'Build your own prime minister' quiz on the Guardian? If not, you should:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/aug/15/prime-minister-...

I came in with
50% Christine Milne
30% Bob Katter
10% Tony Abbott
10% Kevin Rudd

PM type: Frankenprime

Bit of an eye opener...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 22 Aug 2013 at 8:16am

I got

50% Bob Katter
30% Christine Milne
10% Tony Abbott
10% Kevin Rudd

PM type: Frankenprime

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Thursday, 22 Aug 2013 at 8:17am

Same result stu, no surprise really as I favour the Greens and independents over the main parties.