sypkan, 1442279431

I think this result is a message of rejection from the the Liberal Party to Rupert Murdoch and his political judgement. They tried it Murdoch's way and it was a disaster. Now it's time for Turnbull to show us what he's got?

so true yorksurfer, but not just a disaster, a fucken catastrophe, it was belatedly rejected by liberals because the public rejected it over and over, despite the media manipulation the public didn't fall for it, thankfully, and have said enough is enough. I'd love to hear what abbotts miserable faithfuls are saying behind closed doors today. didn't even last as long as rudd or gillard despite all his taunts.

half term tony...fuchen gold

"We need to respect the intelligence of the Australian people."

so good to hear the things turnball has said along these lines, hopefully a dramatic change in the way things are done. abbotts problem was not realising that despite his good education, some low end aussies might be just ss smart as him. turnball is still big bisiness but there is a little ray of hope in Oz politics today, the first time in a bloody long time!

though I am disappointed he's keeping their present climate change policy, but encouragingly he's said direct action has the means to be cranked up. either way al least we won't be shamed every time our PM opens his mouth overseas

silicun, 1442279534

I just listened to a Jones/bolt pod cast and same feelings Dave the audience were spitting chips at the treachery

stunet, 1442279689

[quote=silicun]I just listened to a Jones/bolt pod cast and same feelings Dave the audience were spitting chips at the treachery[/quote]

No doubt they were, but after 30 consecutive Newspoll losses what were the rest to do? Sure it's noble to go down with the ship but it's not very clever.

Smurfburger, 1442280184

golf claps to peter dutton for being the straw that broke the tory camel... Leigh Sales evisceration on 7:30 also helped the death rattle along a bit...

I am not celebrating Turnbull's victory but I am celebrating Abbott's defeat..

For two years - this trainwreck with ears has been embarrassing us on the world stage.

As for Turnbull, if it walks like a tory, looks like a tory and quacks like a tory - chances are it's still a tory

though admittedly there are some differences

Turnbull has an intellect and a handful of principles and an overall right-centrist perspective on things...|

but ultimately - the LNP is still a clusterfuck of toxic ideology no matter which marionette is under the spotlight...

they call him the seducer of the centre left... that he is... so charge up your bullshit detectors we're in for a bumpy ride

might almost be time for Shorten and crew to attempt approximating some sense of relevance too

they need to remember they are players, not placeholders...

turnbull et al are about to get a tasty spike in the polls...

shorten will remain taciturn for a while - and that makes sense - but he needs to actually participate at some stage... and by participate i mean offer up a compelling argument that he is somehow not just a back room card shuffler....

Craig, 1442281064

#whereistony

lostdoggy, 1442281437

Hahaha, Tony. Delaying the handover as long as possible.
Very good to see him and Joe go.
Sad that that slimey Pyney prick is hanging around.

Smurfburger, 1442282130

i can't eat at the Star of Siam anymore on account of scoring a Pyne hat trick - - - - - three times in a row i'm there for lunch and i look over to see that obsequious little knob womble snorting into a bowl of noodles

velocityjohnno, 1442285520

"The thing I like most about Turnbull is he can't be bought. He's already loaded. Giving his kids $60,000 scholarships won't fly."

Hmmm.

yorkessurfer, 1442288980

Fair call velocityjonno I don't really know that much about Turnbull's alumni background? I'm just a simple pleb without much knowledge of such things?

I just get the impression that Malcolm's tactic for screwing us will be a more gentle approach with a 'Liberal' amount of lubricant applied as opposed to Abbott's thrust it in dry 'Hard Right' style. No wonder the Australian public squealed?
Abbott just was not properly trained in how to fuck the people over like a merchant banker is?

trippergreenfeet, 1442289886

Imagine the pillow talk.





Hubby and wifey 's "blue" blood lines go way back...there's a reason why Malcom's middle name is Bligh.

YS, as an old boss of mine used to call it, The Right Wing Dry Anal Hate Fuck, no spit.

trippergreenfeet, 1442290057

I watched the signing in as PM of Mr T...it was Lucy's face that was of concern, she was standing on the outside steps for the press after the deal was done with a glint in her eye that shone of power, not gratitude.

trippergreenfeet, 1442292304

.

Sheepdog, 1442296153

Yeah, well....... I'll give Turnbull a go..... I'm a fair man..... With 40 something libs not on his side, he'll have to be careful..
He can't be a turn bull in a china shop... get it? Turn - bull -....china - free trade... Ahh fuck off...... :p

indo-dreaming, 1442302724

[quote=Sheepdog]Yeah, well....... I'll give Turnbull a go..... I'm a fair man..... With 40 something libs not on his side, he'll have to be careful..
He can't be a turn bull in a china shop... get it? Turn - bull -....china - free trade... Ahh fuck off...... :p[/quote]

ha ha….im sure we will have a new thread to bag Turnball out by this time next month…and I'm putting my money on you to be the one who starts it :P

floyd, 1442304763

Turnbull has given the Nationals control of water in the deal to stitch up a deal with the country bumpkins.

Standby .... there goes the Murray - Darling River Basin plan that the Nationals want tossed!

Too late Indo, I'm into him already.

barley, 1442310046

Nationals rock..go barnaby..another reason floyds a cocksucker!

braudulio, 1442310760

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss.

wellymon, 1442311478

[quote=Sheepdog]Sorry I went missing... Just been on a 12 hour bender..... Hadn't touched the demon brew for 12 years, but last night, I went to the pub, smashed the Jack, danced on the tables, lit cigars at the front bar, and ended up in the back alley copping a blowy from a just as happy greeny named"sky flowerbud"..... Nice girl.....[/quote]

.

davetherave, 1442312843

do u know her welly? i would have loved to see the dawg dancing on the tables- he really gets that cossack step a happening!!!!! whats that about the back alley- not going there---- lol-yes i am a few kangas short in the top paddock.

evosurfer, 1442318338

Look at that cold bitch in the back ground Julia Bishop. She didn't put her hand up this time because she knows liberals will not win the next election. But after Turnbull loses the election she will step up into leader of the opposition and win the following no problem. She is a war munga and have no guilt to send our boys to war in every far flung shit hole in the world. God help males in this country.

floyd, 1442350572

[quote=barley]Nationals rock..go barnaby..another reason floyds a cocksucker![/quote]

ouch barley, that really hurt.

Nationals rock do they?

You mean the party that is meant to represent farmers and farming communities but bend over at every opportunity the mining, fracking and CSG industries want to ream them and the farmers doing what they do best on prime agricultural land?

Ask yourself this barley, where do former leaders of the National Party go when they retire from politics?

Answer: The mining industry.

Former National party leaders, John Anderson and Mark Vaile ...... John Anderson is chairman of Eastern Star Gas, the company behind the Narrabri Gas project while Mark Vaile was a director and now chairman of Whitehaven coal, the company behind one of the controversial mines at Maules Creek.

I recall how famously Marl Vaile got up at a meeting of farmers in a small country town and said "my name is Mark Vaile and I'm your local country party member" to which the gathered crowd all yelled "yes we remember" .... that might be over your head barley.

tonybarber, 1442352876

Evosurfer...women go to war to also. One poll taken yesterday indicated 70percent approval for Turnbull whilst Shorty 24percent. Taking bets on the next election and you can't take out your cash whilst the games on.

evosurfer, 1442354606

I never ever gamble imo its a disease like drugs and grog but mark my word that bitch is
on the way so keep your cash. I strongly disapprove of women on the front line just look
at domestic violence they don't seem to be doing to well on that front. Although a gun
does make everyone even.
Turnbull will not last after the election.

evosurfer, 1442354609

I never ever gamble imo its a disease like drugs and grog but mark my word that bitch is
on the way so keep your cash. I strongly disapprove of women on the front line just look
at domestic violence they don't seem to be doing to well on that front. Although a gun
does make everyone even.
Turnbull will not last after the election.

barley, 1442360929

feel sorry for you Floyd..hopefully you can get some help

velocityjohnno, 1442374455

No worries YS, sometimes it is better to take the simple approach in life. The more I read into it (as I must be aware), the more I just want to go & shape and surf a board. It would be nice to have a choice that was different to that of between a certain investment bank and Fabian Socialists. If you look at the real policy that gets passed (bar: IR) it's marching down the same path no matter who passes it. But here we are.

In Malcolm's defence, when I was working remote Tassie I wrote to him as environment minister regarding the level of deforestation (& all the politics surrounding this) and was heartened by his personal reply. This shows an integrity of character and a devotion to service. Peter Garrett similarly replied when I wrote to him shortly after Fukushima blew up - although I'm more conservative the only times I have written to my ministers have been on environmental issues. Much respect to both of them.

sypkan, 1442400169

some interesting points here about abbotts speach and how abbott blamed everyone but himself for losing the leadership. strange man, totally incapable of self reflection,

there was another article in the guardian I think pointing out how he was given a six month warning with the challenge before, a warning about peta credlin, a warning about captains calls etc. and he took none of it on board. with the six month warning you'd think he'd tone things down, or Rupert or somebody would advise him to back off a bit. it seems he just got worse than ever in that last six months

http://m.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/liberal-leadership-tony-abbott-gone-but-what-now-20150915-gjmqu7.html

I almost felt sorry for the cunt when I saw some of those pictures of a rejected man, but that psssed quick when I realised what a self serving prick he was, this article describes his problem, total inability to see and appreciate other peoples views and positions in life. how did this man become PM?

http://m.huffpost.com/au/entry/8138542?ncid=edlinkauhpmg00000001

stunet, 1442401117

That second article summed it up; how Tony's issues, and there were many, were projected upon the populace. I get the feeling we'll look back on this period with utter, utter dismay.

tonybarber, 1442450643

I think you will find that all leaders, especially in Aus over the last five years, who have been forcibly moved on, don't blame themselves. Re the articles you linked to - it should be stated that Mark Kenny (The Age) has never supported Abbott or his policies - not really the best person to use when reviewing Abbott time in parliament. The best I like is that 'Abbott was like a dog chasing a car but when you got there didn't seem to know what to do next'.

Sheepdog, 1442453496

[quote=indo-dreaming][quote=Sheepdog]Yeah, well....... I'll give Turnbull a go..... I'm a fair man..... With 40 something libs not on his side, he'll have to be careful..
He can't be a turn bull in a china shop... get it? Turn - bull -....china - free trade... Ahh fuck off...... :p[/quote]

ha ha….im sure we will have a new thread to bag Turnball out by this time next month…and I'm putting my money on you to be the one who starts it :P[/quote]


Ahhh, indo my old pal.... You can be just a little bit of a pin head at times old chum....
http://www.swellnet.com/forums/politico

As you can see, Lib leadership is floyds cash cow... Send your money to stu at swellnet... He'll make sure it gets to me.... ;)

sypkan, 1442453637

I don't think any other leader was given so many warnings like 'tony you're being a wanker"

the man seemed to relish in being a wanker,

yep got the car and had no fucking idea, shows how one dimensional and simple minded he really is

Sheepdog, 1442454687

The economy needs a kickstart.... Now, if I was Mal', I'd delicately steer the small L libs towards same sex marriage..... labors and greens vote are a given....
*between 5 and 10% of the populace are openly gay...
* Lets play the numbers down and say 500 000 gays wish to marry
* That's 250 000 weddings.. - But let's play it down some more - 200 000 weddings......
* """""According to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission's latest data, the average wedding in Australia costs $36,200"""""
* But let's play that down to $ 20 000.......

* 20 000 x 200 000 = $4 000 000 000..... That's 4 billion............

* We haven't counted wedding gifts, engagements, honeymoons....
Engagements - say 2k per engagement re - ring, dinner, cards, flowers yadda yadda... - 2000 x 200 000 = $400 000 000.... That's 4 hundred million.....

* 5k in wedding gifts - 5000 x 200 000 = $ 1 000 000 000.... That's 1 billion......

* 10k per honeymoon, but we'll 1/2 that due to overseas honeymoons
- so 5k.... 5000 x 200 000 = $1000 000 000... Another billion.....

$6 400 000 000........................... 6.4 BILLION dollars....... Even over a two year period let alone a one year period is a mighty fine amount of cash thrown into the economy.....

floyd, 1442460856

Someone I know said when he saw Abbott he saw George Pell and when he saw George Pell he saw Abbott.

This was referencing how both knew how to say the "right thing" but act differently and how they were able to reconcile this contradiction because they operate with a deep religious/spiritual conviction that they are right and the end justifies whatever means .... deceit, lies, fabrication, fighting against current day moral & social values.

If you accept this view of Abbott then you clearly see he wasn't a liberal or even a political conservative or anything that can be easily linked to a parliamentary democracy ... a very dangerous man and arguably Australia's worst PM.

Smurfburger, 1442462916

[quote=floyd]Someone I know said when he saw Abbott he saw George Pell and when he saw George Pell he saw Abbott.

This was referencing how both knew how to say the "right thing" but act differently and how they were able to reconcile this contradiction because they operate with a deep religious/spiritual conviction that they are right and the end justifies whatever means .... deceit, lies, fabrication, fighting against current day moral & social values.

If you accept this view of Abbott then you clearly see he wasn't a liberal or even a political conservative or anything that can be easily linked to a parliamentary democracy ... a very dangerous man and arguably Australia's worst PM.[/quote]


hmmm Pig Iron Bob takes that gong for me -

I honestly think Abbott is mentally ill... that onion incident is a clinical psychiatrist PHD waiting to happen

loungelizard, 1442468671

smurfburger- bob hawke did the onion thing first, it was a picture in a glossy mag of pollies/celebs and their favourite snacks, he was pictured with a half eaten raw onion and quoted as saying "its tasty and controversial" , i thought abbott was referencing bob when he did the onion thing but noone else made the connection (i am ..ahem ..mature, and remember everything) i suspect abbott needs a psychologist as much as bob (not much…abbott is not as smart or complicated as bob)

i would also add the right wing accepted with good grace that mcmahon was the worst pm for a long period, but the left have trouble accepting gillard/rudd have the mantle for the foreseeable future (no matter how much you try to spin it)

having corrected a few facts i only logged in for a laugh to see how card carrying alp trolls like floyd are responding to the ascension of malcolm, because you are f***** for years now. it is really funny, careful what you wish for..

of course i acknowledge that greater truths and insights are visible to the bunch of clowns spending all day in a shed on yorke peninsula , notebook in hand to remember their many aliases as they attempt to influence the course of history , (on a surf website no less..).. go get em champs!

Smurfburger, 1442472054

[quote=loungelizard]smurfburger- bob hawke did the onion thing first, it was a picture in a glossy mag of pollies/celebs and their favourite snacks, he was pictured with a half eaten raw onion and quoted as saying "its tasty and controversial" , i thought abbott was referencing bob when he did the onion thing but noone else made the connection (i am ..ahem ..mature, and remember everything) i suspect abbott needs a psychologist as much as bob (not much…abbott is not as smart or complicated as bob)

i would also add the right wing accepted with good grace that mcmahon was the worst pm for a long period, but the left have trouble accepting gillard/rudd have the mantle for the foreseeable future (no matter how much you try to spin it)

having corrected a few facts i only logged in for a laugh to see how card carrying alp trolls like floyd are responding to the ascension of malcolm, because you are f***** for years now. it is really funny, careful what you wish for..

of course i acknowledge that greater truths and insights are visible to the bunch of clowns spending all day in a shed on yorke peninsula , notebook in hand to remember their many aliases as they attempt to influence the course of history , (on a surf website no less..).. go get em champs![/quote]


i assume the fact correction happened in another thread?

and of course the tories will go with mcmahon - their worst PM is still lauded as a hero (Pig Iron Bob) in the same way that Thatcher is still lauded by the right as a policy innovator in ol' blighty

as for Abbott and Rudd - - well that's a coin flip - most likely abbott though as his ideological toxicity was quite breathtaking - i detested Rudd though. I know a number of staffers who worked with him both in Qld bureaucracy and federally. The charlie uniform is very strong in that november tango.

and speaking of lady parts - Gillard had to endure a targeted hate campaign the likes of which no tory will ever experience - from her own party, from the opposition and most importantly from the media - and yes - there was mondo misogyny... no matter how you try to spin it

floyd, 1442472833

Mr Lizard, I totally agree with Mr Smurfburger's comments immediately above. Latham, Rudd & Abbott how were they ever preselected for a federal seat let alone become leader of their party and in the case of Rudd and Abbott how did they ever become PM.

From a policy and legislation passed into law point of view Gillard surpasses Rudd and Abbott. Abbott passed less legislation than McMahon. Few PMs have ever had a senate majority, Gillard could work with the cross bench when Abbott couldn't.

Finally, so nice of you to align me with the ALP. Wrong. I wish Malcolm Turnbull well and hope he is the PM the country is screaming out for. If he is truly a "liberal" PM the country will thank him for it ..... but that means he will have to be left of the current ALP.

For the record I vote Greens.

Smurfburger, 1442473875

that is an awesome looking spot yorkesurfer... I just moved to the mid coast... one street behind the esplanade - - it may be best thing i ever did -

but back on topic... i'll just have to see how Turnbull goes. I prefer him to Abbott... but that's kinda like saying I prefer gastro to ebola

loungelizard, 1442477219

apologies for aligning you with labor floyd, as i said i only rarely read these columns, is it yorkesurfer who is an acknowledged alp member? (not that there is anything wrong with that..) i could match your view with my beach house vista, and the "suburban shithole" is an acre in the eastern suburbs, yes, sorry..court , pool.. i grew up in the western suburbs tho! vote for xenophon and pyne as local member as he is the most influential local pollie now that wong is in opposition
have to say i always thought keatings use of "tory" as a form of insult made him seem more of a forelock tugger than the objects of his usually clever abuse, but good on you for keeping it alive mr smurfburger! having rendered my apology to floyd i will retire and let you talk amongst yourselves….

yorkessurfer, 1442479056

Yep that's right lounglizard. I joined the ALP about 5 years ago after being disgusted by the Murdoch media's constant attacks on the Labor Party and its values.

I figured if corporate giants like Murdoch, Gina, Twiggy Forrest etc. were going to throw their weight behind the Coalition then Labor would need as many grass root members as they can get to try and balance things out and prevent our country turning into some kind of little America.

Glad to hear you've succeeded in life with an acrerage in the leafy eastern suburbs of Adelaide. And a beach house too, gee you are really doing well for yourself!
But I find it strange how your kind like to denigrate average joe's like me for having an opinion and sticking up for our values.

That comment about living in a shed?

So what if some people have to live in sheds to get by? Does that make you feel better about yourself and your success? Seems a little insecure coming from someone in your position? Why are you afraid of a little man expressing an opinion?

floyd, 1442479791

hey YS, as your "shed" is so close to the dunes is it a "snake pits" during the season? Owned a place in a similar location once and there were snakes everywhere. Snakes and and all sorts of sea birds.

yorkessurfer, 1442480123

I see a few snakes around floyd. I've never really been too bothered by them as if you know how they behave you can learn to live with them. We are just coming into snake season now but I haven't seen any yet.

yorkessurfer, 1442481082

@loungelizard-I'm just glad we've got rid of the worst PM I've ever seen in my lifetime. I'm off to Europe next year and will hopefully be able to tell people I'm Australian without being embarrassed as I'm confident Turnbull can start to fix this country and repair its fractured image.

For the record I only have one profile on Swellnet as there is no shortage of people who share my disgust for Abbott.
And I can live with Labor in opposition for another term if that's the way it goes. I'm not a huge Shorten fan.

After all there hasn't been a one term federal government in Australia since World War 2 and I expect a smart politician like Turnbull to manufacture a win. It was clear to everyone on both sides of politics that Abbott was toast.

And I'm sure as hell not living all day in a shed loungelizard. A beachfront shack is my abode. Where do you live buddy? Some suburban shithole no doubt. Here's what my place looks like dickbrain.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/VSN8a1I.jpg[/IMG]

zenagain, 1442485279

I read most of my news online and Aussie news on news.com.au and ninemsn (Newscorp and Mi9 respectively). I can't remember when I actually read an article painting the coalition in a favourable light on either of them. In particular Malcolm Farr was/is relentless in his click bait articles denigrating Abbott at any opportunity, not that he didn't deserve it, but now he's getting stuck into Turnbull and it's only been two days.

Yorkes, if that's Murdoch getting behind the coalition I'd hate to see what would happen if he really had an axe to grind.

By the way, I think your little plot is awesome. Looks so peaceful.

wellymon, 1442488521

[quote=yorkessurfer]@loungelizard-I'm just glad we've got rid of the worst PM I've ever seen in my lifetime. I'm off to Europe next year and will hopefully be able to tell people I'm Australian without being embarrassed as I'm confident Turnbull can start to fix this country and repair its fractured image.

For the record I only have one profile on Swellnet as there is no shortage of people who share my disgust for Abbott.
And I can live with Labor in opposition for another term if that's the way it goes. I'm not a huge Shorten fan.

After all there hasn't been a one term federal government in Australia since World War 2 and I expect a smart politician like Turnbull to manufacture a win. It was clear to everyone on both sides of politics that Abbott was toast.

And I'm sure as hell not living all day in a shed loungelizard. A beachfront shack is my abode. Where do you live buddy? Some suburban shithole no doubt. Here's what my place looks like dickbrain.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/VSN8a1I.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Nice work YS;)

Smurfburger, 1442495130

[quote=loungelizard]apologies for aligning you with labor floyd, as i said i only rarely read these columns, is it yorkesurfer who is an acknowledged alp member? (not that there is anything wrong with that..) i could match your view with my beach house vista, and the "suburban shithole" is an acre in the eastern suburbs, yes, sorry..court , pool.. i grew up in the western suburbs tho! vote for xenophon and pyne as local member as he is the most influential local pollie now that wong is in opposition
have to say i always thought keatings use of "tory" as a form of insult made him seem more of a forelock tugger than the objects of his usually clever abuse, but good on you for keeping it alive mr smurfburger! having rendered my apology to floyd i will retire and let you talk amongst yourselves….[/quote]


if the last time you heard the term tory used pejoratively was from the lips of Keating - you might consider expanding your media consumption to include the 21st Century :)

Be warned though - doing so could make you a pariah in your postcode...

Fliplid, 1442733032

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pgzY74BrO6?play=true

Here's a link for you Floyd.

floyd, 1442734982

Thanks for that Flipped, bout sums up the sniggering sewer rat that was Tony Abbott.

It made my afternoon along with news that Andrews, Hockey and Abetz have been given the arse from the ministry. Eric Abetz, now there was a 1890s man if I ever saw one.

Turnbull will be more popular, well who wouldn't be after Abbott, but has he the ticker to return the liberals to a "true liberal party" to quote him.

norchock, 1442741584

Ha ha you need a life mate if that made your afternoon....maybe we should call you pink floyd

Johno210, 1442741640

Agree that attached link by Fliplid was gold.
Good riddance to Australia's worst PM....T.Abbott
I see Hockey is about to call an end to his political career, good this will give Turnbull some breathing space. Hopefully Abbott hangs up the boots & announces his retirement sooner rather than latter.
Cheers Johno

floyd, 1442741781

[quote=norchock]Ha ha you need a life mate if that made your afternoon....maybe we should call you pink floyd[/quote]

hey norchock, that and a heaving overhead surf ....... life is good offline

norchock, 1442742508

[quote=floyd][quote=norchock]Ha ha you need a life mate if that made your afternoon....maybe we should call you pink floyd[/quote]

hey norchock, that and a heaving overhead surf ....... life is good offline[/quote]
Yeah whatever pink talk it up heaving ya reckon?yeah as I said

floyd, 1443560765

Wake this morning worried what happened to your superannuation account yesterday?

A new assessment of the financial viability of Glencore* world coal mining giant dealing with a 60% fall in the coal price since 2011 and ongoing downturns in China has caused markets here and around the world to go into free fall.

Remember Abbott's defence of coal and the Adani coal mine in Queensland and his attack on those "green terrorists" holding back the economy? It was all bullshit then and still is but what has changed inside the government? Nothing.

Wouldn't make sense for governments to be encouraging renewables in this environment?


* $50 US billion in debt and facing forecasted falls in sales growth over the next 2 years of up to 16%.

Shatner'sBassoon, 1444098178

For the benefit of those without a subscription to Crikey... and, frankly... you probably should have one if you can afford it. As ever... Bernard Keane is 'on the money':-

A ‘secret’ trade deal and the damage done

If trade ministers have reached a deal on the TPP, it will just be the start of a process by which Australia’s national interests will be further damaged.

There are confusing reports today out of Atlanta, where trade ministers from 12 countries are rushing to finalise an agreement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership ahead of the Canadian election ....

An agreement that leaves intact Australia’s current position on biologic drugs — under which competitors cannot develop similar drugs based on the same clinical data for five years — is said to have been reached, which is likely to infuriate the US pharmaceutical industry and the politicians it funds in Washington: ...

While the government will boast about hanging tough on biologics, they were never the biggest problem in the TPP — although accepting the US position would have led to a dramatic blow-out in the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme...

The real threat from the TPP to Australia was always in broader intellectual property restrictions that the United States wanted to impose, of which biologics were just one example; the Productivity Commission has identified intellectual property — particularly in the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement — as an area where Australia’s national interest has been harmed by so-called “free trade agreements” (more accurately, preferred trade agreements, as the PC calls them, or “managed trade” agreements, as some economists suggest). The other threat, of course, is the investor-state dispute settlement mechanism, whereby companies will be able to sue governments, using hand-picked pro-business arbitration panels, for any public policy changes that cost them money, meaning multinational tax laws, climate action policies and attempts to protect public health can become the basis for billions in compensation payments.

There’s one positive to any conclusion to the TPP, however: citizens of the 12 countries will finally be allowed to see the treaty. In Australia, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has negotiated the entire agreement in secret; the only way Australians have been allowed to see what their own and other governments were proposing was via draft chapters published by Wikileaks. “Negotiated in secret”, however, is a little inaccurate, because while voters have not been allowed to see the treaty, major corporations and peak US industry bodies have not merely been allowed to see the text, they have, in fact, dictated it to the US government. Emails of the US Trade Representative (USTR) obtained under freedom of information laws show industry groups celebrating the inclusion of text they have drafted in the US’ proposed TPP draft...

While big American companies have been allowed to draft the text, the Productivity Commission here has repeatedly complained about the poor quality of “free trade agreements” and the overhyping of their benefits... In July, commission chairman Peter Harris outlined a detailed process whereby the PC could independently assess complex agreements like the TPP. “We think this type of post-negotiation assessment offers a pragmatic, workable approach, and — provided the pre-negotiation analysis is comprehensive and rigorous — could be completed in around four months,” Harris said. “I understand the TPP will have around four months in front of the US Congress, so this would appear reasonable based on other countries’ practices.”

So far, the government... have shown no interest in allowing the PC to vet their often wildly over-the-top claims about the benefits of any trade agreements. DFAT — which has minimal economic expertise — has in the past expressed angry resentment that the PC has assessed bilateral trade deals and found them of minimal benefit. If a deal has been concluded, there will no longer be any excuse for Robb to withhold the deal from PC scrutiny — except if it’s a bad deal, the harmful parts of which he wants to keep hidden.

And bear this in mind about the TPP and all other trade agreements involving the United States: even after other countries have signed up, the US arrogates to itself the right to not sign up itself until it has vetted each countries’ implementation of the treaty, and, if necessary, direct countries it believes have not implemented a treaty in accordance with the interests of US firms. This process, known as “certification”, means that no matter how much or how little Australia caves in on crucial issues, the US will attempt to use its own interpretation of the treaty to direct Australia on how to legislate its implementation.

If there’s a deal today, the TPP isn’t over by a long way. And for Australia’s national interest, it will only get worse from here.

nochaser, 1444167282

More on the TPP - 20 Chapters long the public has no idea what's included.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/10/tpp-ecstasy-grips-nation-shame-nobody-knows-whats-in-it/

nochaser, 1444275115

Another one bites the dust...Liberal Party federal director Brian Loughnane, married to Tony Abbott’s chief of staff Peta Cradling gone after 12 years in the job on Thursday.

Shatner'sBassoon, 1445996313

With Tones being such a BA Santamaria fan-boy, here's a thought...maybe he can split the Libs like his mentor Bob did with Labor back in the day? The ultra-conservatives vs the liberals...Tones vs Mal...the new unflushable turd vs the glitterman (glitter on the same old LNP policy turds)...

Either way, such a split back then kept the Libs in power for nigh on 20 years...and Australia in a fog and playing catch-up ever since.

Funny, back then it was communists that were the bogey-men...christians versus the godless reds. Now it's the christians versus the muslim hordes (with some hippy-climate-change-probably-communist-anyway shit chucked in).

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

GO TONES GO, YOU BEAUTIFUL USELESS IDIOT YOU

stunet, 1445998641

Been thinking about this and I reckon the Libs will be sandbagging themselves from any potential wedge politics. Labor knows how effective it is, they were on the receiving end of Howard dividing the traditional working class and the progressive left constituencies over immigration way back in 2001. Clearly Mal and Tones have different agendas, as do their followers, but Mal is toeing the line to avoid being divided and conquered.

If anyone other than Shorten was in opposition I think they'd be finding their reach and jabbing away, trying to expose Turnbull's core beliefs and showing how they differ from Tones.

Vic Local, 1446011970

Since Turnbull took over as PM, it's just been a case of "same shit different shovel". It's just amazing the swinging voters are looking at the shining new blade in their hands rather than focussing on the steaming piles of turd that are the Liberal Party's policies. Keep shovelling idiots.

Shatner'sBassoon, 1446021455

This article ring any bells (alarm or otherwise)? Not our Malcolm, surely?

http://theaimn.com/cheap-labour-conservatives/

Shatner'sBassoon, 1446598068

"When the IPA came up with their list of 75 plus 25 policies “that would make Australia richer and more free” they described it as “a deliberately radical list”.

“There’s no way Tony Abbott could implement all of them, or even a majority. But he doesn’t have to implement them all to dramatically change Australia. If he was able to implement just a handful of these recommendations, Abbott would be a transformative figure in Australian political history. He would do more to shift the political spectrum than any prime minister since Whitlam.”

So how is the Coalition government going in fulfilling their wishes?"

AND IS THE MERCHANT BANKER ( rhyming slang optional) AND FREE MARKETEER PAR EXCELLENCE, MALCOLM TURDSTILL, GONNA VEER FROM THIS COURSE AT ALL??

http://theaimn.com/when-you-wish-upon-a-star/

floyd, 1451004726

In a moment of insightfulness I wondered whether Abbott actually logged on to SW to checkout the surf forecast given he has been seen to regularly fall off a mal around Sydney .... and that got me thinking he may have even read this forum dedicated to how completely and utterly fucking stupid he was a Prime Minister .... and that got me thinking perhaps I could send him a personal message, you know one from the heart ....... and that got me thinking what would I say that hasn't already been said here 100's of times by many many people .... and that got me thinking I should just wish Australia merry christmas, its a far safer place now that Captain Idiot isn't at the helm.

happyasS, 1451005163

[quote=floyd] .... and that got me thinking I should just wish Australia merry christmas, its a far safer place now that Captain Idiot isn't at the helm.[/quote]

hear hear....and merry xmas.

Blowin, 1451007816

Obsession : An idea or thought that continuously preoccupies or intrudes on a persons mind.

Sheepdog, 1455778822

And this mob go on about "keeping Australia safe"...... What a joke.... What an insult.....

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/fake-rolexes--should-they-have-been-checked-for-bugs-20160218-gmxcj6.html

floyd, 1455779213

there you go sheepster thought I'd update the title for you, given you are such a gentleman .... as they say you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

Sheepdog, 1455780158

Yep..... But Blurb shunter is still leading Labor..... Whilst he's there, the Libs are a shoe in.... You do realize that most voters are nimrods, right? And no, I don't mean the hunting version of nimrod lol

Shatner'sBassoon, 1455783297

Anyone see Leigh Sales' first post-assassination (I believe that's the preferred term as used by corporate/mainstream media...well, certainly in regards to Labor) interview with Glitterman?

I thought she was gonna go all Tom-Jones-throw-the-knickers style LITERALLY (probably wouldn't have been able to peel them off!)

And that was the ABC!?

Apart from the usual suspect, right wing-nuts (their pain and confusion has been delicious), the Turnbull media love-in has been overwhelming. Thus the polls.

Shorten has recent party history, and now smear, all over him.

Tones may have once said to the independent Windsor that he'd sell his arse to be PM.

Malcolm has sold both his arsehole and soul to the diametrically opposed nuts in his own party to get there.

Remember that when climate-change policy is mentioned especially. Who's Mal gonna be lying to? Depending what comes out of his mouth, it's either gonna be us or his colleagues or both (at the same time??).

AND TONES WAS THE LIAR KING?

Hmmm, why does my fevered mind drift to this soundtrack?



Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss...
Same as the old boss

floyd, 1455785977

hey sheepy, yeah agreed Bilbo needs to go but what on earth are the Libs doing ?

Turnbull and Morrison have been cock-teasing the electorate for 5 months now on what they are going to do on tax reform, Abbott was rolled coz he wasn't up to it but it seems the Libs are sooooooo desperate to win the next election the current mob don't have the ticker to do anything meaningful ....... Faaaaark, some-one has to convince Keating to make a come back.

Sheepdog, 1455788134

[quote=floyd]hey sheepy, yeah agreed Bilbo needs to go but what on earth are the Libs doing ?

Turnbull and Morrison have been cock-teasing the electorate for 5 months now on what they are going to do on tax reform, Abbott was rolled coz he wasn't up to it but it seems the Libs are sooooooo desperate to win the next election the current mob don't have the ticker to do anything meaningful ....... Faaaaark, some-one has to convince Keating to make a come back.[/quote]

Funny you should say that.... I was speaking to Paul Keatings secretary about 6 months ago.... I phone his office.... I said exactly what you just said.... "Please tell paul to come back", I begged.... She laughed and said "you would not believe how many calls letters and emails I get asking the same thing"... I don't think he wants to, Floyd...

But I've said it countless times.... Dreyfus...... He'd give Mal a run.....

But what about those fake rolex's aye??? Fuck me..... Bugged for sure..

Did you see the "econobabble" article the other day? A really good read.... Here it is if you missed it..

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/econobabble-equals-obfuscation-plain-english-clarifies-our-policy-choices-20160212-gmsn6x.html

floyd, 1455792370

Great read Sheepster, like that Richard Denniss, heard him speak (plainly) many times on what is needed.

Only trouble with Richard is he is employed by a lobby group that seems not to have the ear of our pollies and herein is the problem ...... as soon as any politician sticks his head up with an idea it (the head and idea) are knocked off by lobbyists camped outside ministers' offices 24/7.

Interesting hearing Charlie Pickering last night on political donations in Australia, I think he said $137 million last year of which 40% is from unknown sources, as allowed under current legislation. Pickering went to explain how our laws on such matters are among the weakest in the world .... worth a look on iview.

Gold on your Keating story ....



ps over to you Tones Barbie to defend lobbyists, again .....

Sheepdog, 1456278983

Floyd - Aboriginals called "Noble Savages" by Lib mp

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-24/dennis-jensen-says-noble-savages-dont-need-funding/7195086

floyd, 1456290634

Hey Sheepy,

Yep, that's the way it goes with some members of the Liberal party. Its disgusting in this day and age that elected officials would find it acceptable to use language more in tune with the 18th century and I personally do not think its an accident, it deliberate alright aimed at certain elements in the electorate.

Same with Bernardi and Abetz, if there is electoral reform needed in the senate it should ensure complete and utter f***wits like those imbeciles are booted out of office. Abetz was on TV last night claiming he has had thousands of parents contact him concerned some gay high school student might use the boys toilets as a means of attacking the Commonwealth LGBTI Safe Schools program.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/safe-schools-program-why-zealots-are-trying-to-drag-us-back-to-the-dark-ages-20160223-gn1ryq.html#comments

It beggars belief sheepy, all this and what is happening to the refugees, right now I wish I was a Kiwi.

floyd, 1456916544

hey sheepy, what do you reckon? Tones up to no good and reloading his leadership aspirations

talkingturkey, 1457053927

[quote=Shatner'sBassoon]With Tones being such a BA Santamaria fan-boy, here's a thought...maybe he can split the Libs like his mentor Bob did with Labor back in the day? The ultra-conservatives vs the liberals...Tones vs Mal...the new unflushable turd vs the glitterman (glitter on the same old LNP policy turds)...

Either way, such a split back then kept the Libs in power for nigh on 20 years...and Australia in a fog and playing catch-up ever since.

Funny, back then it was communists that were the bogey-men...christians versus the godless reds. Now it's the christians versus the muslim hordes (with some hippy-climate-change-probably-communist-anyway shit chucked in).

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

GO TONES GO, YOU BEAUTIFUL USELESS IDIOT YOU[/quote]

Turdstill! Now I get it!

Sheepdog, 1457055190

[quote=floyd]hey sheepy, what do you reckon? Tones up to no good and reloading his leadership aspirations[/quote]
Blabbott is just doing what he always does, mate... He wrecks things... My hope is that those extreme nutters in the lower house get decimated in the election. There would be no better message to the religious neo right than a bloodbath.. Andrews, GONE.. Christensen GONE, Jensen GONE, Abbott turfed from his electorate GONE, Nikolic GONE.... One can dream , right? Lol

floyd, 1457063148

[quote=Sheepdog][quote=floyd]hey sheepy, what do you reckon? Tones up to no good and reloading his leadership aspirations[/quote]
Blabbott is just doing what he always does, mate... He wrecks things... My hope is that those extreme nutters in the lower house get decimated in the election. There would be no better message to the religious neo right than a bloodbath.. Andrews, GONE.. Christensen GONE, Jensen GONE, Abbott turfed from his electorate GONE, Nikolic GONE.... One can dream , right? Lol[/quote]

Works for me

tonybarber, 1457063174

Just pay your union fees, boys, and keep your heads down. Don't get ahead of yourselves.

floyd, 1457064746

hey sheepster,

this sums it up perfectly ....

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/malcolm-turnbulls-leadership-challenge-a-policy-and-authority-vacuum-20160303-gn98oa.html

Good to see you're back to your ole self boy band barbie

talkingturkey, 1457065286

Oi Doggo, for this miserably stupid comment above, surely Klaus deserves one of your infamous memes. Do it for the workers, comrade!

And Floyd gotta love this comment from the article you posted. I concur heartily.

"I always thought that opinion WAS fact for conservatives.

And conversely, fact is simply opinion.

So we have the "opinion" of climate change, and the fact of "deficit disaster".

... the LNP is a hollow log, filled with vaporous nonsense, and if you hit it hard enough, all the nonsense-believers line up to convert the endless bank of lies into facts.

They can't even accurately tell you what a "lefty" is, except to say, it's anyone who disagrees with their lies. They just don't know nuthin' about nuthin'."

Now who on here is always spoutin' this kind of "lefty" trash-talk?

Please form an orderly dinky-di Aussie queue please (we're not asylum seekin' queue jumpers here, maaaate).

Sheepdog, 1457086365

Pc is out of action, turkey slap.. Mobile phone only for now..

Sheepdog, 1457090175

[quote=wellymon]Thank god;)[/quote]
wrong thread, man...

wellymon, 1457090512

Haha classic Gold stuff Sheepio.

I can't blame your lack of literature at the moment champ, as it is hard on a Iphone 2S,

wellymon, 1457090693

I meant a Voda phone 1998 !G;)

wellymon, 1457090776

Thank you;)

floyd, 1457170225

While I'm not going to make any moral judgement on the alleged Abbott/Credlin relationship I will most certainly highlight that one Tony Abbott the politician:

* is a fierce defender of the "traditional" marriage b/w a man & a woman in his attack of same-sex marriage;
* trotted out his wife & 3 daughters at the last 2 elections to highlight how he is a "good family" man;
*carries his Catholic faith on his sleeve as a badge of honour;
* was the Minister for Women in his government;
* cites George Pell as a close personal friend;
* ensured the Commonwealth funded religious (Christian) programs in government schools; and
* endlessly talked about faith and God while in office.

Not to worry Tony, as a Catholic you just need to go to confession and all will be forgiven.

floyd, 1457241795

Do you think Australia would leave the alliance if Trump became President?

Sheepdog, 1457242910

[quote=floyd]Do you think Australia would leave the alliance if Trump became President?[/quote]

In one word? No.

Blowin, 1457242951

Floyd - It's time to move on mate.

I know Abbott meant a lot to you, but.....shits over.

Welcome to 2016.

Sheepdog, 1458953784

Floyd..... Could Bilge Shunter do a "Steve Bradbury"? It's really quite remarkable how everything the coalition touches turns to shit....

floyd, 1458956689

Sheepy, in a word No, but the election could throw up some interesting twists that will make life hard(er) for Turnbull e.g. Mirabella losing (again), Windsor beating the red face fucktard cane toad called Joyce, at least 2 possibly 3 of the cross bench being return to haunt the senate just to name a few before we start on the likely reduced majority in the house of reps.

Turnbull isn't a good media performer, man he would put a glass eye to sleep, so he could fuck up big time and of course there is the Abbott factor.

The libs have no policies todate so expect a massive scare campaign against labor (again, again, again ... same as it ever was .......

The libs have totally pissed off a lot of people in the electorate but is labor forgiven for the kevin rudd shitpie experience, i don't think so .... so my answer is no, but its a long campaign so anything could happen ..................... what's your take sheepy?

mk1, 1458972408

Shout out to the title of this thread. Like!

AndyM, 1458984520

"I know Abbott meant a lot to you, but.....shits over". Hmm nah, don't think so.

Hands up who'd like to see Windsor beat Joyce? What'd Johnny Depp call Barnaby Joyce - "weird sweaty-pated gut man".

Absolute gold.

Sheepdog, 1458988178

Floyd, My take is there's an outside possibility, and I mean outside, that the right wing of the coalition may get punished at the election.... I think a lot of discerning floating voters like myself can see the Rudd like turmoil being created For Turnbull and the moderates by the nut brigade.... In a DD, Bernardii will survive... But I see danger signs for lower house members like Nikolic, Joyce, even Abbott.... I mean we did see Howard lose his seat..... So I am hoping with all my might that if Turnbull wins with a reduced majority, which he should, It's the hard right that wears the losses..... it'd be the only way he could survive a reduced lower house.... if Moderates fall, but all hard right nutters remain, he'll be rolled within a year..
So lets hope the good folk of Fairy Bower show Abbott the door.

floyd, 1458990035

Sheeparoo, Nice analysis but .... "discerning floating voters like me" .... and you thought you could get away with that since arriving here by boat within the last 2 years? Nice try lad!

I agree if more moderates go than nut cases Turnbull is in big trouble next term if he is returned in fact I see big trouble ahead for the libs regardless of the election result .... just what and who do they stand for these days? I see parallels with what's happening in the land of milk and honey, the republicans are shot, they hate each other more than the democrats ... tea party and trump fighting moderates and in the natural election cycle it should be a republican president but that isn't going to happen ... the USA are a few years ahead of us but if there isn't a wholesale clean out of the ultra right nutters the same thing will happen here ...........

interesting reading in the Age today

an article on Abetz stating it was a mistake sacking him from the ministry ... WTF

an article written by Tim Costello about the lost soul of the liberal party

an article about the most forgetful federal minister of all time Arthur Sinodinos linking him to illegal party donations to the NSW liberals via the Canberra branch

an article about how Tony Jones upset Turnbull on Lateline

an article about the preference whisperer and how micro parties will be targeting Liberal/ National members in marginal seats

none good for the neocons ..... its going to be a long campaign and I don't think anyone is fooled by Turnbull's ABCC bullshit election excuse .... its going to be interesting alright sheepy

Sheepdog, 1458996834

Oh floydaroony..... I do change my vote... I have even voted for a state coalition once, believe it or not - tasmania - Labor/green coalition was a farce.... And I still have nightmares about my preference vote to the coalition in 96, though I dont think they needed it......... Never EVER voted LNP in qld... Labor up there.... Always horses for courses, mate...
What makes you think I'm a tribalist, may I ask? And btw, i will not be voting for the libs, nats, Labor, or greens this election.... The greens I will be putting in last for the senate... I will be checking out my local independent options as a form of protest, as none of the major parties deserve my vote.

floyd, 1459038132

sheepy, it was just the use of the word discerning ...highly amusing ... yeah i will also be voting independent in the senate 1 to 6,

more dirt on Sinodonis in the Age today ... the Libs aren't off to a good start - week 1 a total disaster.

Sheepdog, 1459042079

Floyd - "sheepy, it was just the use of the word discerning ...highly amusing "

Hey!!!!!!!!! That's a bit of a bitch slap.....
Discerning - "having or showing good judgement."

Well I'm more discerning than the Essendon Football club....... :p

floyd, 1459045644

Ouch, happy easter sheepy

here's a treat for you, the 2nd album I got with my own money was Ummagumma and have been listening to it ever since ... enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH0FUJ7PKzM

benski, 1459156629

Apparently this just happened, today I think. Tones, committing the cardinal sin.

https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/714366835844472832

floyd, 1459158424

[quote=benski]Apparently this just happened, today I think. Tones, committing the cardinal sin.

https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/714366835844472832[/quote]

Yeah Tones was also riding a SUP ... on his knees ... twice the loser

tonybarber, 1459203568

[quote=benski]Apparently this just happened, today I think. Tones, committing the cardinal sin.

https://twitter.com/JoshButler/status/714366835844472832[/quote]

Geez and drop ins just don't happen at Noosa.

sypkan, 1459206568

from the sheepdog

The greens I will be putting in last for the senate

I wonder how many people will punish the greens for their little deal. it seemed the greens were really gathering momentum for a period until this little dark shadow arrived. I was looking forward to voting for someone with wholeheartedness for the first time thanks to di natalie's leadership, not anymore, a seed of doubt from a seedy deal has arisen...back to weighing up who's least shit... so disappointing

Sheepdog, 1459208167

Floyd/sypo..... Cheers, Floyd.... Hope you had a good break, man.... Very quiet one here.... Enjoyed vietnam Kho Bo beef jerky on good Friday.... Hell awaits ;)

Sypo... Flashback to the democrats dealing with Howard/gst.... within 6 years of that, they were spent... I doubt the greens will fold like the dems, but it will turn a lot of disenchanted Labor voters back to labor...

Sheepdog, 1459209948

Abbott drops in on a female surfer.... Misogynist accusation confirmed.... :p

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/tony-abbott-photographed-in-the-surf-at-noosa/news-story/fce473710969a575e54171b3cfef584d

sypkan, 1459211164

Flashback to the democrats dealing with Howard/gst....

yep was thinking the same, yeh it won't kill em like the democrats, but they'll definitely take a hit. a shame really, it's a big hit for a very small gain. which is why I don't understand their keeness




it's

sypkan, 1459212257

geez I love mark latham....sometimes

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/in-defence-of-the-donald/news-story/584c03e48644c98e505a8a32c403de03

floyd, 1459213107

hey sheepy ........ what do you reckon about these theories ....

Windsor and and a couple of Xenophons plus Wilkie get up in the Reps and suddenly Turnbull has not only a hostile Senate to deal with he also has to to deal with a troublesome Reps

Same situation as above but the independents form a government with Labor aka Gillard style

and this is the best one of them all Barnardi and the ultra right wing born again fucktards sense they are losing their control over the Lib/Nats split from the LNP to form their "Australian Conservatives Movement" Party .... apparently he already has the name ..................

ah, its only week 2 of 15 and Turnbull isn't looking fresh!!!

Sheepdog, 1459239323

Possible, Floyd... Unlikely but possible..... From what I've heard Nikolic is in trouble.... One nutter gone...... Andrew Robb retiring and replaced by gay liberal - 2 nutters gone..... Joyce in BIG trouble re' Windsor - 3 nutters gone..... My smokie - Abbott loses his own seat - 4 nutters gone...... Moderates then blame the hard right for election fiasco.....
Personally, I'd have an all out assault on Abbotts seat if I had anything to do with Labor or the greens.... There would be no stronger message to the neoconic christian right than having Abbott and several high profile lower house members thrown out on their arse..... That in itself would make Cory "don't marry your pets" Bernardi think long and hard about going it alone....
I just hope Labor members aren't WANTING the hard right to remain.... Sure, it might destabilize the libs post election.... But if labor are thinking this way, then they are not thinking about Australia.. They are thinking about 2019.... And that's playing with fire on so many levels.... It just needs the right to be intact, and a terrorist attack in 2018/19, and Labor are in the wilderness 2013 to god knows when......

Sheepdog, 1459316275

Floyd, I might have to take back my "Shunter hasn't got a hope in hell" line..... Turnbull is imploding... It's a shambles..... Blurt might do a Steve Bradbury....

floyd, 1459326236

[quote=Sheepdog]Floyd, I might have to take back my "Shunter hasn't got a hope in hell" line..... Turnbull is imploding... It's a shambles..... Blurt might do a Steve Bradbury....[/quote]

Presumably you are referring to Turnbull's ooooops I mean the IPA's idea of getting the states to raise taxes on the eve of an election.

So the full(er) story is finally coming out, first reduce the Commonwealth's allocation to the states for health and education spending by $80 billion (Abbott's 2014 failed budget) and then get the states to raise the tax to fund the shortfall ........... further proof that Turnbull is just running on Abbott's policies ........ so why change the leader? ...... nothing to do with what's good for the country but what's good for the Liberals!!

This idea of getting the states to raise taxes will be a race to the bottom for the smaller states like Tasmania and South Australia ....... second class health and education etc etc. Wantt to see this policy in action ..... look no further than America ... and who has the better health and education ????

I'm old enough to remember how the states competed against each other when the big aluminium producers wanted to build smelters in Australia .... all the states were in a fight/race to the bottom offering tax concessions and, as in the case of Victoria, ridiculously cheap electricity which the Victoria is still saddled with. This is the sort of shit that will happen in the future if this idea gets up ... states tripping over each other offering cheap(er) taxation rates for big business to establish their coal mine or smelter or uranium waste dump site in "their state" ........... maybe this is also the way Gina Rinehart and others get their "special economic zone".............

This is a mine field politically and economically for Turnbull and all future state and federal governments and should be strongly resisted.

Sheepdog, 1459340168

floyd... I honestly think they need to check the water at the lodge and in the pm's canberra office.... It has to be laced with idiot juice..... Did they change the plumbing in 1996?

greebs, 1459351954

Sypkan sums an extensive and complex political discourse very neatly: "...back to weighing up who's least shit... so disappointing"

Greebs urges the good folk of swellnet to consider the specific environmental policies of your candidates & parties FIRST.

Ideally, economic sustainability linked to environmental policy, but thats a harder one to crack in a world set up around economic growth.

Federal and state L/NP governments have shown nothing but contempt for the environment, and animal welfare for that matter, so they wont get my vote, as much as I was hoping ol' Malcolm might be a breath of fresh air, supposedly intelligent and principled.

He leads a government that's done all it could to wind back the extensive commonwealth marine parks network introduced by Labor, promoted new coal ventures in the Hunter and Qld against all common sense, hasn't stood up to the Japanese re ILLEGAL whaling despite repeated promises and weasel words to do so, threatened the removal of commonwealth renewable energy incentives for major RE providers and start-ups, hasn't demanded the resignation of abbott following his dropping in on a girl at Noosa .. the list could go on. Then there was Newbrain in Qld revoking native vegetation safeguards leading to massive clearance of native woodlands since, with more being cleared at a phenomenal rate as you read this in a panic move by farmers prior to the Palas...(sorry dont know spelling!) govt flagging an intention to reinstate them. I cant remember the hectares being cleared per day/week atm - it's an outrageous figure... extremely distressing for anyone who cares about australian natural heritage.

But then you've got Bill Sort-of. Seems like he's had an operation which removed that part of his brain containing personality. Let's see what he has to say about specific environmental initiatives - if any. I'm hoping though. Unfortunately an endless stream of corrupt Union shonks aren't doing him or Labor any favours either.

In protest I once voted for some crew called The Natural Law Party. Their main gig was they believed they could levitate off their mattresses if they chanted and thought about it hard enough. Seemed worthwhile at the time, and could be a useful alternative, but they folded, dammit.

So despite their shortcomings, at this stage that really only leaves the Greens for Greebs.

floyd, 1459377931

sheepo ........ confirmed ... Turnbull is barking mad!

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbulls-education-revolution-end-federal-support-for-public-schools-20160330-gnuo4l.html?rand=9122982#comments

****Spoken by M Turnbull for the Labor Party Canberra****

sypkan, 1459390873

yeh gotta agree greebs, I haven't given up on them yet, but only because xenophon was in on the shady deals. I judge the greens harder though as they should be more principled, not fair maybe but that's how I feel.

greens have earned some points back already by questioning the outrageous rorting that is private health insurance and rebates. this really needs an extensive study to show it has done little to eaee pressure on the public system, while it has been a very poor investment for those paying premiums. though it has been a great $5 billion investment in the interests of john howards mates. not sure if that was the goal

still quantifying the turds....

mk1, 1459392219

Does it matter that Shorten has no personality? Could be a plus.

sypkan, 1459393200

it clearly is a plus as it has allowed him to unite the labor party, no mean feat, credit where credit is due and all that, it's not a plus if you want to inspire some hope in a bleak landscape, not to mention no personality seems to equate to no real conviction about nothing.

which goes to greebs point about labor and the environment. care not much about nothing, except maybe climate change if it's in vogue that month, and even that 'conviction' wanes quickly at the prospect of a new coal mine

floyd, 1459750216

Looks like the Liberals are imploding ..... Andrews, Jensen, lower tax for business at a time when more businesses are shown to be avoiding paying any tax, refusal to reduce tax concessions on super and negative gearing favoured by the wealthy, adani mine approved ......... Liberals declare war on Australia and themselves!! /............. bodes well for the country then .... bring on the election

Sheepdog, 1459761613

Floyd............ Qld Labor........ If it was a coalition state government that approved Adani, well........ Let's just say the silence is deafening...

floyd, 1459769707

[quote=Sheepdog]Floyd............ Qld Labor........ If it was a coalition state government that approved Adani, well........ Let's just say the silence is deafening...[/quote]

Yes ... Qld Labor did sign off on the mine just recently but are you suggesting greg hunt's grubby fingers haven't been all over it over he last 3 years?

Look both major parties need to distance themselves from these projects ......... in this case i can't see it being built or ever being profitable the world has moved away from coal and the price needs to more than double and stay there for the life of the mine for it to make money ........ so on that basis what's going on? why proceed? has adani suckered tax payer coin that we don't know about? it just doesn't make any common or economic sense

Sheepdog, 1459771873

Yes ... Qld Labor did sign off on the mine just recently but are you suggesting greg hunt's grubby fingers haven't been all over it over he last 3 years?

No..... I didn't suggest that at all...... Are you suggesting Anna signed off on it coz she's a Greg fan?
How about enough of these suggestions, and bag the crap out of Qld labor, mate? They deserve it..

sypkan, 1459811217

let's not forget federal labor's hypocrisy where questionable jobs and barely/non existent profits override ' our greatest moral challenge'

http://m.smh.com.au/business/mining-and-resources/government-labor-block-calls-for-investigation-into-adani-coal-development-20150302-13t0gx.html

Federal Labor resources spokesman Gary Gray welcomed the decision and said the project was of "great importance to Queensland and to Australia"

tonybarber, 1459815775

Yes, hypocrisy maybe. But understand what drives Labor in Qld, the unions. It is essential they maintain a membership base. Mining is one of those industries where the unions do have significant influence. Creating jobs is essential, interestingly for both parties, in this part of Aus. There aren't many. So is the protest against coal, as such. (India will get its coal from somewhere). Or is it against the fact that its near the barrier reef ? Given the process this approval has gone through - all levels of government, supreme court, federal court, commissions - you name it. The Indians will burn coal regardless what we think.

floyd, 1459820149

sheepo ...... as my ex navy mates say they were always in the shit only the depth changed. same as political parties, according to my values the shit is lower with labor but its still shit. under newman and abbott it was up to our necks, under turnbull is up to your man boobies :))

tones ....... yeah you are right india will do what india will do but does that mean we have to make our backyard a shit pit for them in a world of diminishing demand for coal? by the way they apparently have 200 years of the stuff on home soil so why dig ours up? it can't be economic reasons, i just don't get it, it cannot be remotely economically viable based on their own figures which were put through all those reviews you refer to. so what's the catch? why are we interested when its likely to only ever get get 1/2 built before the bankers, if they can get any, put out? will this become like the fucking pulp mill proposal that gunns wanted to put in the pristine tamar valley? it just doesn't make sense ...........

sheepster, that gunns mill, you were down there then, what went down at a government level to encourage the gunns government cabinet sub-committee ooooops i mean the gunns board to proceed?

sypkan, 1459821389

not really fussed about the reef

not overly concerned about climate change

it's the hypocrisy and hyperbole

are we 'moving forward' with the new ways of the future or not?

this thing has a long life span, it's going to look ridiculous in 10 years time whether climate change is in vogue or not. that's without even considering how uneconomical it has become, and is becoming exponentially

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/05/cost-of-stopping-new-coal-and-gas-projects-in-freefall-costings-reveal

subsidising jobs and caveman technology for chicken feed, we need a little more vision

floyd, 1459822262

great link sypkan, precisely what I'm talking about

Craig, 1459824861

Yep awesome article.

tonybarber, 1459827851

Sypkan, moving forward sounds good but if India needs coal then so be it. As the article you linked suggests there are many jobs involved and that is the essence of this project. You may be aware that there are about 1200 coal fired power stations in the world, 800 in India and China, Aus has about 20-24.
How India solves its energy problems is obviously for them and if one truly wanted to put a solution in place immediately, you would have to look at nuclear.
The hyperbole and hypocrisy is there, sure. That's politics.
Cavemen technology, yes maybe but that's all we've got if you don't like nuclear. At least for the foreseeable future.

sypkan, 1459830674

I was being facetious using 'moving forward' as I cannot believe we accept such geek speak while the system seems to be crumbling around us.

geez you love this burning shit debate tony.it's up to India to sort their shit out, and us our shit. we need not encourage the old ways, but we do, because of entrenched political and financial bias, and that's all it is, because there will be other jobs fitting with whatever solutions we choose.

current nuclear, no thanks, I'm with sherpdog, I'll take my chances with the 'infallible' science being exaggerated somewhat.

baseload!...fusion!..., I hear you say (not yet, but you will)

well it appears the baseload thingy is a bit of a myth, or at least will be within 20 years. a much shorter timeframe than you nuclear nutters will produce fusion

http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=374

http://theconversation.com/baseload-power-is-a-myth-even-intermittent-renewables-will-work-13210

mk1, 1459832060

Floyd - I think the new coal ditch is pushing ahead simply because those involved want their fees. It doesn't stack up at all, but execs need to get paid too, that new car ain't going to pay for itself.

Tony, nuclear is dead. It's completely uneconomical. Wind+Solar+(local renewable like water or geothermal)+gas/biogas/biomas is the way forward. There's also lot of scope to add to existing capacity with renewables, then incrementally replace the existing sources with renewables as they wear out.

sypkan, 1459832264

back to turdball, you're right floyd, up to our mammaries in turds is better than before but....

he's been quite the arrogant fool thinking he could distract and deflect whilst doing actually nothing and ride the public's love to victory. shorten is looking like he's got a chance, I hope he's up to it,

I don't quite get this ABCC thing, I know it's liberal ideology fuelling it. but to make such a big deal about something.that most people don't really give a fuck about and make a DD election just seems ridiculous. is it purely to have an election while they're still in favour?

could be funny if that strategy backfires.

they've refused to negotiate, then whinge the the senate won't pass it. pretty sure it's his job to convince the senate otherwise. it's democracy.

as glen lazarous just said, it's a bit rich they won't consider a wider reaching anti corruption body with all this tax haven and corruption shit coming out. alright to target corruption as long as it's not his mates.

and then fuck me, in an amazing moment of synchronicity, that disgusting miserable liberal laden entity Wilson Security is named in the Panama papers, oh but it's the public that's cynical

floyd, 1459834345

@sypkan ......... i could write a 1,000 words on why the Libs want the ABCC but lets just say its an important part of what I call "Workchoices by Stealth" .... royal commission into unions and labor leadership, encouragement of the wholesale abuse of 457 visas, deliberately let the car industry and associated industries collapse causing massive unemployment in manufacturing, attempt to build the subs overseas thereby closing down the two ship building yards in AU (South AU & Vicco), attempt to end weekend penalty rates for easy sectors like retail, attempt to reestablish the ABCC etc etc = weaken the Australian workforce to such an extent that the poor little bastards will accept sub standard wages and conditions aka 7 11 thereby arriving at the conservative priapismic state of nirvana.


on india my guess is they will leap frog coal and all its infrastructure and go local solar and battery storage just like they did with mobile phones

batfink, 1459853430

Yeah well, I was scratching my head about the coal mine approval, but the fact is that it will never happen.

It can't make money unless the coal price doubles, the bankers won't back it because it can't make money, and there is no need for it as viable coal fields are being closed down while the price is so low, and there are a batch of more efficient coal mines producing better coal that aren't making any money and they don't need a 300 km rail track and a port to be built.

Still, pretty cynical of the Qld Labor government to approve it knowing that they can't even think about starting it unless coal prices double and then some. It's a risky move, and they would have won more plaudits from me by just getting up and saying we won't approve it because it's crazy.

Someone may be interested to look behind the scenes and work out whether the government have to pay reparations to the company if they don't approve it. I suspect that is the case, and this decision is just a ploy to avoid compensation.

Hope it works out that way.

Still, even with that approval there is an Indigenous land claim over some of the site and another federal court case hearing pending, which could go all the way to the high court, and they would have to get those sorted before a sod of dirt is turned.

And then find tens of billions in loans that even a payday lender wouldn't go near.

Not going to happen.

tonybarber, 1459855615

Sypkan, the articles you provided are referencing either the US or Europe. Not applicable to Aus. We have a totally different scenario. Have you thought why Labor premier Wetherill set a royal commission into nuclear. Maybe worth a look at its terms of reference.
I would like to see how Lazarus would handle two Comanchero muscles smash his car headlights and taillight up just because he drove a cement truck for Boral. Happened to a good mate.
Sure the Panama papers is shit and I hope the slippery buggers get hit. You will soon find out that aint just liberal shits but anyone trying to hide the cash.

sypkan, 1459863830

well tony I would argue that anything that can be done in European and US cities can be done here, and that we waste even more energy through leakage, inefficiency, and wastage running at excess through low load times. not to mention solar, wind and decentralisation of infrastructure suiting australia more, not less,

I'm confused tonybarber, should I be paying those union dues to save me from the big bad world or not? you're kinda contradictory on this topic.

hope you're right batfink, it amazes me how some totally illogical and unviable shit gets up when certain people and bodies are involved

Sheepdog, 1460352887

Aaaand the disunity continues..... Shambles....

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/captains-call-lib-mp-lashes-malcolm-turnbull-and-ministers-for-opposing-bank-inquiry-20160411-go395y.html

Sheepdog, 1462526314

Fuckn hell, Floyd...... Could Blurb Shingles do a Bradbury? Branch stacking rock Libs!!!!! More imploding from this turkey of a government;

https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/31538038/vic-libs-face-branch-stacking-claims/

floyd, 1462526505

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/climate-change-authority-report-recommending-a-mandatory-carbon-price-held-back-until-after-election-20160506-gonw88.html

Turnbull hides Government Report recommending Labor's plan on a carbon price on electricity. Fancy that sheepo

floyd, 1462526552

1

floyd, 1462526566

1

floyd, 1463870407

Thought i would remind Swellnutters of the impending lost of over 200,000 jobs associated with the Australian car industry.

Now where did I hear something about jobs and growth? and who said we have a plan for the economy? and which party wants to give a $50 billion tax cut to companies over the next 10 years but wouldn't consider any government subsidies to save the Australian car industry (an industry pushed to the brink because of the high $AUD because of the mining boom) and 200,000 Australian manufacturing jobs? and remind me again which state just got an additional $50 billion in submarine contracts to save a handful of doubtful LNP seats! ....... jesus its a good thing the adults are in charge and the Libs are always better at managing the economy ah Indo, Barley & Tones!

AndyM, 1463873828

"Libs are always better at managing the economy ah Indo, Barley & Tones!"

Wake up you guys, the Right are dismantling YOUR Australia.

velocityjohnno, 1463874201

The analysis of the loss of this industry has now been done to death Floyd, both parties increasingly poor policy since the Button Plan, no review of the plan, Lima Agreement, Aussies not supporting Aussie made, Free Trade Taliban at DFAT, RBA the only central bank not playing 'beggar thy neighbour' within ongoing currency wars (high AUD), union wage & conditions vs rest of world, a whole half shift at Toyota disappearing on Friday when Oz day was on a Thursday one year, Rudd/Gillard stripping 500m from the Auto assistance package and giving said 500m to the Arts, and the especially the parent companies being foreign owned (no domestic capital or backing Australian owned enterprise) and deciding to pull the plug without concern for the national interest. There's more, the car forums have dissected it completely over the last 5 years or so.
Two Aussie cars in the garage here, still going strong, support our own & Aussie jobs. Maybe we can all work building houses for each other and charging increasingly high prices for them. Or on roadworks...

barley, 1463874235

Haha your floggin a dead horse andy..are you a conroy stooge?billys puppet?labor will get smashed..deal with it..and if they dont it wont matter..your $80 an hour you charge for doin fuck all will remain the same..your kids education you wont have to pay for neither your $100000 knee surgery you threw out while surfin the ments..but hay whinge and whine how you guys have it bad all ya like...whatever makes ya feel less guilty..

AndyM, 1463874924

No guilt involved at all Barley, just making judgements based on past form. And that includes policy regarding education and health. Too bad if people don't have money eh Barley.

floyd, 1463875743

hey barley, tones, indo, nick3, name just one economy where trickle down economics has worked in the last 40 years .... just one where the economy has grown along with wealth for all, where the gap b/w rich and the average joe has narrowed, where new jobs have been created and where the economy doesn't have a deficit ......... just one

Blowin, 1463876177

[quote=floyd]hey barley, tones, indo, nick3, name just one economy where trickle down economics has worked in the last 40 years .... just one where the economy has grown along with wealth for all, where the gap b/w rich and the average joe has narrowed, where new jobs have been created and where the economy doesn't have a deficit ......... just one[/quote

AndyM, 1463877041

Nice input Blowin.

barley, 1463878493

Australia america canada new zealand england..you saying our economy doesnt work? The same economy that enables you to sit on here all day everyday doing fuck all feeling important? Yeah it doesnt work....dropkicks i wish it didnt work haha..but fuck you guys are experts ay?

floyd, 1463879036

[quote=barley]Australia america canada new zealand england..you saying our economy doesnt work? The same economy that enables you to sit on here all day everyday doing fuck all feeling important? Yeah it doesnt work....dropkicks i wish it didnt work haha..but fuck you guys are experts ay?[/quote]

Yep, there is no arguing with stupid

Blowin, 1463879250

is that not true Floyd ?

It's true for me.

And everyone I know .

And most of the people I know are not what you'd call well off at all.

But still their standard of living is world class.

barley, 1463880128

You doin the rugby league thing and shootin in your own mouth floggy?

floyd, 1463881544

We do live in a rich country and for most people our standard of living is very very good, unless of course you are indigenous or homeless or on welfare and then you life is pretty poor.

But my question was about the conservative side of politics and their economic theories about making the wealthy even more wealthy and as a function of the "free market" some of that wealth will trickle down to the average joes of the world i.e. all will benefit.

In this election the LNP are promising $50 billion worth of tax cuts to business over 10 years. They state with all the certainty of religious zealots that this massive cost to the budget bottom line will grow the economy by even more than the $50 billion cost and new wealth and jobs will be created as a consequence. This action is referred to as trickle down economics and it first came into vogue with Reagan and then Thatcher and later here with Howard.

I just want the LNP or any LNP supporter to identify just one economy in the world where giving the wealthy money means it eventually ends up in the pockets of workers. I want proof.

Now, I know the proof doesn't exist because by any and all objective measures this trickle down economic theory has been discredited long ago .....

All those years ago Reagan gave massive tax cuts to business and the rich, the Bushes continued the policy and today in the US the gap b/w the rich and the worker has exponentially grown, unemployment is high, interest rates have flat lined, the economy has a massive deficit and we have the rise of Trump, the irrational bonehead who can say and do anything and still be popular because so many people are white hot angry at the failure of the political system to "look after them". The UK and parts of Europe are the same with rise of extreme political parties on the right and the left all because voters are fed up with being ripped off economically and politically.

We see the same problems here but the mining boom has softened the blow but how far away from a recession are we here? What are be building here? where are the jobs in the economy? etc etc ....... if it weren't for negative gearing tax dodging what would be turning over the economy?

Yet we have the government wanting to cut $50 billion from the budget to hand over the companies ....... and here's the rub, via dividend imputation of Australian shares most of that $50 billion cut cut will flow straight out of the country so it really is a tax cut to foreign investors in AU shares ...........

We all have to realise here the conservatives aren't good economic managers in the real world its the theories and ideologies that they talk about behind closed doors with lobbyist and bankers and the like that drives them, like the religious zealots where "faith" replaces facts, objective analysis and a concern for average joe.

indo-dreaming, 1463881652

Agree Barley and Blowin.

IMO my life and my family's and friends and all the people in the communities around me are all better off than we were, im not old enough to remember much from 40 years ago but from what my parents told me and the struggle they had.

From what i remember in the 90,s when i didn't really try to get a job as was happy to be on the dole surfing but down here on Phillip Island there was no jobs, no building was going on, property was cheap but no body could afford to buy it, people basically gave blocks away because they couldn't afford to pay the rates.

IMO everything has improved or stayed similar the only negative is more population/people/surfers and more rules but i guess that's just the flip side of it all.

Some people like you Floyd just like to whinge, you don't, know how good we have it in Australia, shits good man enjoy it, anyway im off to Indo so that's about me for a month or so.

AndyM, 1463882061

She'll be right Floyd, Straya's a good country so don't do anything, and whatever you do don't be rational and use yer brain cos then you'll be a whinger.

tim foilat, 1463883799

[quote=indo-dreaming]Agree Barley and Blowin.

IMO my life and my family's and friends and all the people in the communities around me are all better off than we were, im not old enough to remember much from 40 years ago but from what my parents told me and the struggle they had.

From what i remember in the 90,s when i didn't really try to get a job as was happy to be on the dole surfing but down here on Phillip Island there was no jobs, no building was going on, property was cheap but no body could afford to buy it, people basically gave blocks away because they couldn't afford to pay the rates.

IMO everything has improved or stayed similar the only negative is more population/people/surfers and more rules but i guess that's just the flip side of it all.

Some people like you Floyd just like to whinge, you don't, know how good we have it in Australia, shits good man enjoy it, anyway im off to Indo so that's about me for a month or so.[/quote]

So during the recession of the nineties you didn't really look for a job because you were happy freeloading on the dole. Aaaahhhh the good times :)

Blowin, 1463883870

How much of the increasing gap in equality is attributable to the implementation of true globalisation do you think ?

PS Andy ,that kind of post - assuming you're the only person who's come to their opinion through considered thought - isn't really doing you any favours.

People have different experiences and varying perspectives.

As I've said, everyone I know and 99 percent of the communities that I visit reveal an exception standard of living by any world standards.

To recognise this isn't mindless cheerleading, just simple observation.

PS. Loving the way you so graphically illustrate your contempt for the Aussie people by holding their pronunciation of the word Australia as evidence of their generic stupidity.

PPS. I'm not a fan of the school of thought that says trickle down theory is unquestionable, but I do believe that power will always accrue disproportionately with a minority due to the human condition and capitalism is just a reflection of that.

barley, 1463884050

Your an idiot floyd..your 'real' world conspiracies are ridiculous..i believe the greens call it xenophobia..but your a green voter..or are you labor? But your like southey and change ya story?..all you wanna do is kick and scream about how shit life is or the gov is..here have another 30c out of my dollar so you can check the net forecast tomoz

AndyM, 1463884169

Blowin, considering that you don't know the difference between big and small l liberals, I'm far from convinced that you've really thought this through in much depth.

And I'll say it for about the fifth time, just because we (generally) have a good standard of living doesn't mean that we shouldn't hold out politicians to account. Why would you get apathetic and coast along?

The people I hold in contempt are those that are not only apathetic but they also want to cut down anyone who appears to give a shit. Fuggin Straya.

Blowin, 1463885749

I know the difference Andy.

Politicians always need to be held to account.

Personally , I believe that suspended over an open fire would be the best place to commence the accounting...but you try convincing security at Parliament House of that course of action.

It's not apathy to appreciate what you have, conversely a vigilant eye on the future doesn't require the denigration of the present situation does it ?

And I'm not sure if viewing the world through shit stained glasses is going to aid future generations ?

It'll just cruel today for you.

I also think you're labouring under the mistaken belief that if someone doesn't hold the same viewpoint as yourself it's because they don't give a shit.

Maybe , like I asked of Floyd, you would be kind enough to state exactly how you'd like Australia to be as opposed to merely describing how you don't want it to be.

It would make it easier to understand where you stand.

AndyM, 1463887701

Blowin the way I see it, you have to identify what is not up to scratch with the current situation so you can have a conversation about it and hopefully come up with a solution or compromise that people can live with - I don't see this as denigrating the present situation.
Although I have concerns about the direction in which Australia is heading politically/socially/economically, I enjoy day to day. There's some poo on my proverbial glasses but I'm ok with the amount, there are a lot of things I get immense pleasure and enjoyment from such as a surf yesterday and seeing the birds in the forest today.
I'm not going to write a thesis on my political views but I'll put down a few points.

Something closer to real democracy, free of "donations" and string pulling by media monopolies, mining lobbies, real estate lobbies etc.

Recognition and dignity for minorities including Indigenous, gay, disabled and to an extent, women.

Recognition for the necessity of a sustainable future, taking into account population, resource use etc.

Stopping the politicisation of issues like asylum seekers/indigenous

Non-partisanship of the Federal Police, Border Force etc.

Transparent government with regard to asylum seeker boat arrivals, offshore detention, donations received, pork barrelling etc.

Scaling back of a materially aspirational society i.e. recognising the relationship between humans and the natural environment. None of this should interfere with sustainable farming, forestry and fishing.

Supporting capitalism, technological advances etc. but avoiding monopolies/duopolies because that's when things start to get ugly.

Supporting a social democracy where there is universal healthcare and education.

I could go on but there's a start.
Needless to say, neither side of politics gets my tick of approval. The LNP especially goes against everything I've said above and I see this as extremely dangerous for every reason.

AndyM, 1463887991

You've sidestepped my points a few times Blowin, put your cards on the table.

Blowin, 1463890313

I totally agree with all of the above, but you'll have to explain what you mean by scaling back of a materially aspirational society...how would you propose this is accomplished ?

And who dictates an acceptable level of materialism ?

The "how" is the crucial part.

AndyM, 1463890514

[quote=AndyM]You've sidestepped my points a few times Blowin, put your cards on the table.[/quote]

tim foilat, 1463891467

[quote=Blowin]I totally agree with all of the above, but you'll have to explain what you mean by scaling back of a materially aspirational society...how would you propose this is accomplished ?

And who dictates an acceptable level of materialism ?

The "how" is the crucial part.[/quote]

That's an interesting question isn't it. The concept of minimum wage or poverty line are commonly understood but there really is no concept of a maximum wage or an acceptable level of materialism. You would think in a system which has to be sustainable there would at least be acknowledgement of some kind of acceptable level of materialism ie one that above which the system is not sustainable.

Blowin, 1463894923

Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms .

Limit population growth through restricted immigration .

Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia .

Prioritise spending on Health, welfare , education.

Subsidise tertiary education.

Discontinue the privatisation of government functions - transport, ports, education, health and welfare.

Nationalised infrastructure spending that produces exportable products - Oil/ Gas , mining etc. Achieved through a commited and non politicised sovereign wealth fund that is accumulated as a result of an annual flat rate tax payable by every Australian citizen.

An Australian constitution guaranteeing freedom of access for individuals to natural resources eg fishing, hunting.

Complete transparency, limitation and curtailment of political donations / lobbying.

Political sphere should consist of - true democracy : continuous referendum style establishment of the desires of the Australian people. People often denigrate policies as being " populist " - isn't that the hallmark of democracy , to reflect the will of the majority ? Constitution / laws established through plebiscite .

Removal of the relevance of individual politicians from consideration - political parties should be faceless, though not unaccountable . Same as every other government department. Make people vote for policy, not projected personality. This could be achieved by a regularly scheduled release of each parties / independents stance on a range of issues displayed in a matrix format for the easy comparison / contrast with each other. Political sanctions as deterrence towards failure to follow the nature of the stated policies .

Dedicated sovereign partnerships with all approved foreign investment in Australia.

An opposition to the acceptance of free trade agreements particularly those containing an ISDS clause.

A focus on the unity of Australians - ie the sustenance of the common language .

Removal of dual citizenship options.

Tightening of tax loopholes for transnational companies . Limited deferral of tax obligations as a result of capital deduction.

Flat rate of tax commencing and ceasing at minimal and maximum earnings respectively for individuals.

Removal of state governments and bodies.

Foreign aid to be concentrated on directly neighbouring nationalities.

Increased antitrust legislation.

All the above is of course conditional on approval by the constant plebiscite process that I advocate.

How the tide of political corruption would be prevented from being spread from the individual power of the current politicians to the diluted, though accumulatory power of the plebiscite approach is beyond me.

Though you can guarantee that if there is political power it will be purchased by those with power , one way or another.

Australia should resist all efforts by non -representational ,transnational bodies to subvert the democratic prerogative of Its citizens as a primary concern .

Better give me a chance to digest what I've written before you start flaying me Andy, I just spat that all out, .

AndyM, 1463895293

Fun isn't it Blowin?

Blowin, 1463895917

Ummm, not really .

But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.

AndyM, 1463896091

A few quick comments before I try to get some work done.
I agree with pretty much all of what've you said.

Restricted immigration would be because of controlling population growth as opposed to ethnic basis.

Very mixed feelings on the focus of unity/language.
The rest of the world (apart from the U.S. but they don't count) can't believe we only speak one language. There are a lot of indigenous languages out there which need support, languages and cultures are dropping like flies because of language policies. Especially considering the rise of Asia, I see a need to redefine patriotism as seen through language - I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

So many other good points you've made.

But it comes back to the point, which political party in Australia is listening to ideas like these?

AndyM, 1463896127

[quote=Blowin]Ummm, not really .

But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.[/quote]

Let's say stimulating.

stunet, 1463896680

[quote=AndyM][quote=Blowin]Ummm, not really . But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.[/quote] Let's say stimulating.[/quote]

I thought it was good Blowin. Just been draining pints atop the jetty for the monthly pointscore. Lot of the world's problems were solved as the NE'er made a mess of proceedings. You would've fit (fat?) right in.

Blowin, 1463896989

None.

That's why we need to shelve the idea of parties and commodify politics in a way that dispenses with the adversarial bullshit , self aggrandisement and dysfunctionally distracting Westminster system and conduct continuously reductive plebiscitary votes on any debatable or contested issue through a convenient digital voting method....if you or anyone else would care to invent it .

Fuck off the politicians....budgets in surplus in 5 minutes.

Retrospective removal of entitlements.

I'm looking at you Bronwyn Bishop you living , breathing drain on our society.

As an aside - Did you know that Bronwyn Bishop is 5'4" ?

I didn't realise you could pile shit that high.

Blowin, 1463897290

[quote=stunet]

[quote=AndyM][quote=Blowin]Ummm, not really . But it's passing the time at an extremely fun -challenged juncture of my time on this Earth.[/quote] Let's say stimulating.[/quote]

I thought it was good Blowin. Just been draining pints atop the jetty for the monthly pointscore. Lot of the world's problems were solved as the NE'er made a mess of proceedings. You would've fit (fat?) right in.

AndyM, 1463898654

Hehehe

AndyM, 1463902479

Well, when you're that poor, coke is out of the question.

floyd, 1463903023

like your 3.28 comment blowin

Blowin, 1463904099

[quote=AndyM]Well, when you're that poor, coke is out of the question.[/quote]

Bam !

AndyM, 1463904298

Uhh, thankyouverymuch.

Blowin, 1463904963

[quote=AndyM]A few quick comments before I try to get some work done.
I agree with pretty much all of what've you said.

Restricted immigration would be because of controlling population growth as opposed to ethnic basis.

Very mixed feelings on the focus of unity/language.
The rest of the world (apart from the U.S. but they don't count) can't believe we only speak one language. There are a lot of indigenous languages out there which need support, languages and cultures are dropping like flies because of language policies. Especially considering the rise of Asia, I see a need to redefine patriotism as seen through language - I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

So many other good points you've made.

But it comes back to the point, which political party in Australia is listening to ideas like these?[/quote]

Mate, to be frank....Fuck the rest of the world.

A common language is the fundamental unifier of society.

It instills the necessary sense of belonging that is required to commit to those around you.

Thatcher was wrong.

Society exists - fucking ridiculous to assume otherwise - and society requires the cohesion and communal bond provided by the a common language.

Blowin, 1463905071

Amazing song.

My second favourite , only beaten by " Do they know it's Christmas ?" which is basically the perfect song.

Though I could never understand the line - " There'll be no snow in Africa this Christmas time " ..... are they implying that it would snow, if only the Ethiopians weren't so poor ?

tim foilat, 1463905603

https://voteflux.org/

https://www.ethereum.org/dao

Blowin, 1463907207

[quote=tim foilat]https://voteflux.org/

https://www.ethereum.org/dao[/quote]

Ha !

There you go, already invented.

Now I'm officially my old man.

Could never wipe the memory of him at the dinner table describing a mechanised broom that he'd conceptualised.....uhh, it's called a vacuum , Dad.

tonybarber, 1463961598

Thanks Blowin ... Good reading and thoughts.

zenagain, 1463964282

Agree. Well written Blowy.

Shatner'sBassoon, 1463982717

Interesting comments, people.

Good to see any discussion on how things are run - be it offering alternatives or even just 'radical' tweaks to the seemingly entrenched monolithic political systems we seem to be beholden to in the Western democracies especially.

Engagement is all good, surely?

There are a myriad of alternatives and tweaks offered out there. Always have been. From the theoretical to contemporary 'real world' examples.

Speaking of the 'real world', realpolitik, where to from here, in Australia, on July 2nd? Which way to jump? What voting strategies to employ? Does any party have a policy platform or any parts of it that are amenable to some of what YOU believe or would like to see happen?

Or conversely, are there parties whose policies are so far removed from anything you believe or would like to see implemented in any way, shape or form?

How to process and act?

Strategic voting? Informal voting? Protest voting? The 'nuclear option'?

YOUR particular vision is best served by voting how?

Interesting and exciting times to be an Australian.

tim foilat, 1463987050

With labor odds stretched out to 3.75 in the last week I'd be putting a good sum there with a solid hedge on the liberals to cover it

https://m.oddschecker.com.au/t/politics/australian-politics

talkingturkey, 1464231363

[quote=Shatner'sBassoon]Interesting comments, people.

Good to see any discussion on how things are run - be it offering alternatives or even just 'radical' tweaks to the seemingly entrenched monolithic political systems we seem to be beholden to in the Western democracies especially.

Engagement is all good, surely?

There are a myriad of alternatives and tweaks offered out there. Always have been. From the theoretical to contemporary 'real world' examples.

Speaking of the 'real world', realpolitik, where to from here, in Australia, on July 2nd? Which way to jump? What voting strategies to employ? Does any party have a policy platform or any parts of it that are amenable to some of what YOU believe or would like to see happen?

Or conversely, are there parties whose policies are so far removed from anything you believe or would like to see implemented in any way, shape or form?

How to process and act?

Strategic voting? Informal voting? Protest voting? The 'nuclear option'?

YOUR particular vision is best served by voting how?

Interesting and exciting times to be an Australian.[/quote]

Blowie chucks in some prescriptions/suggestions. Gets a "hear, hear" from some of the peanut gallery - T (cough, cough) B & (not so) Zen. Huzzah!

AND YET...

I can't see a lot of correlation between what is suggested/supported by these fine fellas and ANYTHING in the 'realpolitik' world and what the LNP is spruiking for this election...In some cases, things are seriously diametrically opposed.

Huh? What gives? Cognitive dissonance?

Yeah, yeah, OF COURSE no-one votes for the LNP on here EVER...apparently. Yet Labor and the Greens are totally shit...apparently. Yep, I'm looking at you guys again.

So, in the 'realpolitik' world, what IS the strategy for the upcoming election, fellas? Seeing as the parties are all the same and NONE of 'em would even look at YOUR quaint little remedies...let alone try any of 'em out... apparently. Flip a coin? "Nuclear option"? Indy rock? Null n voided?

'Cos I reckon the LNP, as is, as always, hates you*! And yet loves you too (if you submit)! Go figure. S & M kinkarama! Australia, you're standing in it!

Now where'd I put my "real solutions" pamphlet from last time? Maybe Australia does need Tony? Again?


*Disregard if you're in the top percentile of earners and went to [insert recognised brand name] private school and a (pick a state) 'sandstone' uni. Oh, and a cynical soulless cunt to boot that's in on the whole joke.

talkingturkey, 1464396593

*crickets*

talkingturkey, 1464396677

*blowflies buzzing*

AndyM, 1464424532

I can only assume that chestnuts like asylum seekers and climate change trump all else?

floyd, 1464425649

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/35i0gfs.png[/IMG]

I live in Greg Hunt's electorate, our environment minister known for his about faces, lies and cunning stunts. The thing is he seems to be on the nose in the electorate based on the number of his advertising boards that are being defaced or pulled down between Hastings and Rye, not sure about the Portsea end, they probably like their politicians corrupted/able that end.

AndyM, 1464430035

Greg Hunt's cunning stunts - it's got a certain ring to it...
Could be a laugh saying it after a few beers too.

floyd, 1481100114

In light of the events of the last 24 hours its right that this forum dedicated to Abbott/Turnbull fuckups is resurrected.

Just who is running the country?

[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/21d1y1k.png[/IMG]

talkingturkey, 1481100574

The resurrection! Check this from pg 56, from the dear departed Shatner's Bassoon:

"With Tones being such a BA Santamaria fan-boy, here's a thought...maybe he can split the Libs like his mentor Bob did with Labor back in the day? The ultra-conservatives vs the liberals...Tones vs Mal...the new unflushable turd vs the glitterman (glitter on the same old LNP policy turds)...

Either way, such a split back then kept the Libs in power for nigh on 20 years...and Australia in a fog and playing catch-up ever since.

Funny, back then it was communists that were the bogey-men...christians versus the godless reds. Now it's the christians versus the muslim hordes (with some hippy-climate-change-probably-communist-anyway shit chucked in).

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

GO TONES GO, YOU BEAUTIFUL USELESS IDIOT YOU"

talkingturkey, 1481100748

And even this (from the same page)! Was Shatner Nostra-fucken-damus? Uri Geller? Tommy Cooper?

"Tones may have once said to the independent Windsor that he'd sell his arse to be PM.

Malcolm has sold both his arsehole and soul to the diametrically opposed nuts in his own party to get there.

Remember that when climate-change policy is mentioned especially. Who's Mal gonna be lying to? Depending what comes out of his mouth, it's either gonna be us or his colleagues or both (at the same time??).

AND TONES WAS THE LIAR KING?"

floyd, 1481148978

This article highlights why Turnbull not staring down the right in his own party will cause electricity prices to actually increase. It also supports my earlier comments that the power industry is screaming out for a bipartisan position but sadly they will not get it with Turnbull's government ... 2 more years of uncertainty ahead then.

The comments section to this article are telling ....

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/capitulation-on-climate-change-ignores-all-evidence-and-will-come-at-a-cost-20161207-gt60px.html#comments



[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/23mskmr.png[/IMG]

GuySmiley, 1488944238

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-S9lrnLZ8

GuySmiley, 1519457016

hey sheepdog

channeling Bill Hayden here, even a drover's dog .......

Turnbull now has 3 opposition leaders now Joyce's salacious love life has seen him off to the back bench. Joyce and Abbott will make life very hard for Turnbull and ......... today we have George Christensen is calling for an end of the coalition.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/nationals-mp-george-christensen-calls-for-an-end-to-the-coalition-20180224-p4z1l8.html

GuySmiley, 1531865124

...... after 51/2 years of nothingness we now have dog whistling from Turnbull