What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 9 Nov 2017 at 7:34pm

Keep voting Labor , Guy .

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/08/coal-fired-plant-shifted-1b...

$ 5000,000,000 .00 thrown away by the Gillard government .How many schools and hospitals does that equate to ?

But....they speak so eloquently and their website is fabulous , they couldn't possibly be a collective of talentless career sops gaming the system could they ?

Useless bastards.

Actually , they're worse than that .

They're useless bastards that took the only political party that ordinary Australians could rally around and drove it to ruination , leaving natural allies ....such as you and I Guysmiley, ....divided and confrontational.

Worse than useless.

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sharkman commented Thursday, 9 Nov 2017 at 8:26pm

he was actually the editor and political editor for the Age , has won every real Journalist award in Australia , so for once , as it was first hand stories , I believe him and as for that guard story , well that's way more reliable !

heals's picture
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heals commented Thursday, 9 Nov 2017 at 8:32pm

You've read that incorrectly Blowin. Julia Gillard had a minority government with an opposition leader blocking every move who rejected any consensus that may have advanced the nation for his own political gain. Part of that was energy policy.

It doesn't matter where you sit on the climate change spectrum, Blind Freddy can see which direction coal is heading and there is little that can be done. Our politicians should've anticipated those changes, as many astute scientists/economists did, and prepared an enrgy mix for the transformation. To our great loss, just when we needed bipartisanship we had a deeply ideological politician in opposition and unstable government in power.

The Liberals were being opportunistic criticising compensation, because those fall backs were only in place to placate Abbot and Greg Hunt who were prepared to do anything to stymie Gillard. Note that Turnbull as opposition leader supported Kevin Rudd's ETS. Note also Peta Credlin's recent admission that Gillard's 'carbon tax' wasn't a tax at all. "That was brutal retail politics" she said blithely.

The worst thing isn't the $5bn gone up in smoke but that we still don't have a coherent energy policy and as long as Tony Abbott has a voice in parliament I don't think we ever will.

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Gaz1799 commented Thursday, 9 Nov 2017 at 9:16pm

Coal isnt trendy anymore but blind freddy should check our biggest exports. Itll be around for a hundred years to come. We have no issue banning uranium but coal is all fine. A government with vision and a spine would address this and plan for the jobs crisis of killing off the coal mines if its allegedly dying. It wont though. Not much point trying to develop a credible energy policy with that white elephant standing in the corner.

Abbott was a ruthlessly negative opposition leader but bitching shorten isnt any better. This citizenship saga is just time wasting bullshit.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 8:01am

Guy - It's much easier if I just repost this from earlier in this thread. It's my wish list for Australian politics . As I've said many times , I have no love for One Nation. But I will say that I have great appreciation of their stance on limiting immigration and reinstating nationalisation of infrastructure and maintaining sovereignty over Australian soil.

They are my primary beliefs and Labor has shown no interest in any of these until very recently. The main one is immigration though.

I'm not for a big Australia at all.

Blowin wrote: Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms .
Limit population growth through restricted immigration .

Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia .

Prioritise spending on Health, welfare , education.

Subsidise tertiary education.

Discontinue the privatisation of government functions - transport, ports, education, health and welfare.

Nationalised infrastructure spending that produces exportable products - Oil/ Gas , mining etc. Achieved through a commited and non politicised sovereign wealth fund that is accumulated as a result of an annual flat rate tax payable by every Australian citizen.

An Australian constitution guaranteeing freedom of access for individuals to natural resources eg fishing, hunting.

Complete transparency, limitation and curtailment of political donations / lobbying.

Political sphere should consist of - true democracy : continuous referendum style establishment of the desires of the Australian people. People often denigrate policies as being " populist " - isn't that the hallmark of democracy , to reflect the will of the majority ? Constitution / laws established through plebiscite .

Removal of the relevance of individual politicians from consideration - political parties should be faceless, though not unaccountable . Same as every other government department. Make people vote for policy, not projected personality. This could be achieved by a regularly scheduled release of each parties / independents stance on a range of issues displayed in a matrix format for the easy comparison / contrast with each other. Political sanctions as deterrence towards failure to follow the nature of the stated policies .

Dedicated sovereign partnerships with all approved foreign investment in Australia.

An opposition to the acceptance of free trade agreements particularly those containing an ISDS clause.

A focus on the unity of Australians - ie the sustenance of the common language .

Removal of dual citizenship options.

Tightening of tax loopholes for transnational companies . Limited deferral of tax obligations as a result of capital deduction.

Flat rate of tax commencing and ceasing at minimal and maximum earnings respectively for individuals.

Removal of state governments and bodies.

Foreign aid to be concentrated on directly neighbouring nationalities.

Increased antitrust legislation.

All the above is of course conditional on approval by the constant plebiscite process that I advocate.

How the tide of political corruption would be prevented from being spread from the individual power of the current politicians to the diluted, though accumulatory power of the plebiscite approach is beyond me.

Though you can guarantee that if there is political power it will be purchased by those with power , one way or another.

Australia should resist all efforts by non -representational ,transnational bodies to subvert the democratic prerogative of Its citizens as a primary concern .

PS Heals - duly noted and well said.

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 9:15am

Politics is dirty and our system of democracy flawed. Whoever we vote for we are in the shit, only the depth changes. The way I see the world voting for a Hanson or a Trump is putting you up the very deep end, lets say up to your neck in it. To continue the analogy voting for Labor or Liberal might see you knee to waist deep, the Nationals chest deep and Greens from calf to chest deep depending on how tolerant you are of some of their policies. Its a messy business.

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Blowin commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 9:17am

I voted Labor for years and they're drifting further from the way they were or should be.

Continuing to vote for them is just reassuring them that they're on the right path.

Theyll only pay attention when they're losing votes.

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stunet commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 10:09am

I can understand the frustration but take a look at the context. Labor were victims of their own success following the Hawke-Keating revolutions. They unshackled the working class, allowed upward mobility, greater opportunities etc...in effect dissolving the very consituency that supported upon. Theoretically the great Labor project was over.

Exept it wasn't, Labor simply lost the means to organise their voters - the unions - and Howard rebadged the lower classes 'Howard's Battlers'.

Takes time for a party to acquire new values and Labor adopted some from it's newly prosperous supporters and some traditional ones - and ill-fit that was bound to fail.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 6:00pm

I have no understanding of politics through the 90,s i was young and couldn't give a rats.

But I'm always surprised when people speak positively politically of that era especially Keating era?

I mean for me and those around me it was hard times, i didn't care that much as wanted to just surf on the dole, but unemployment was ridiculously high, the building industry was dead, and interest rates were ridiculously high, where i live people where virtually giving away blocks of lands because it just wasn't worth paying the rates and i remember even a big auction of at least twenty properties from bank foreclosures or whatever there called.

So what am i missing?

Ada gula, ada semut!

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blindboy commented Friday, 10 Nov 2017 at 7:02pm

indo, the Hawke-Keating government made numerous essential economic reforms. The previous coalition government, particularly Howard as treasurer, had had their heads in the sand. The resulting economic boom resulted in inflation hitting 9%. The reserve bank were too slow in raising interest rates so when they did, they had to do so fiercely to have any impact. Hence "the recession we had to have". Keating has always maintained that had the reserve bank acted earlier the recession could have been avoided.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 11 Nov 2017 at 7:57am

@Blindboy Okay

Ada gula, ada semut!

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 11 Nov 2017 at 7:58am

Another interesting read from yesterday,

"A Manus Island refugee was ­arrested for allegedly trying to strangle a female doctor with a plastic bag and punching her in the face after receiving treatment at a medical centre run by the ­Australian government."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/refugee-tri...

Ada gula, ada semut!

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Saturday, 11 Nov 2017 at 10:48am

Its an interesting scenario because right now the reserve bank is arguing if the government doesnt act on the housing bubble there will be a bust and a recession will follow. No doubt if it does pop future governmemts will blame the reserve bank again. Government policy dictates spending and inflation and the rba only moves the interest rate to address inflation. Horse before cart or cart before horse?

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blindboy commented Saturday, 11 Nov 2017 at 12:06pm

Gaz the reserve bank now has a clearly defined inflation target range. If inflation rises out of that range they will lift interest rates. The real problem in recent years has been that they struggle to keep it above the lower boundary, so deflation has been more of a concern.

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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 13 Nov 2017 at 8:27pm

Thats right bb but the housing market has a gun to their head at the moment. Currently they seem to be holding their breath and treading softly. Cant really go up or down and the government doesnt seem to see it

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno commented Monday, 13 Nov 2017 at 9:40pm

Rates in housing market dependent on international market rates as Aussie banks borrow short off international debt markets and lend long into Aussie RE. RBA can sit on rates and lenders still pressured higher by market funding costs in NY

RBA follows (or leads?) 90 day SFE bill rate...

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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 14 Nov 2017 at 6:43pm

For a while I've been yearning for an economic history of the last 10 years, let's admit, it's been... different. Matt Barrie has obliged today, the first half a wrap up of global happenings during QE, a very good read with quite a bit of wtf:

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/11/freelancer-ceo-matt-barrie-goes...

When these imbalances unwind, at least we'll still have surfing.

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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 14 Nov 2017 at 7:56pm

I was just about to post that article johnno but you beat me to it! Great read i thought.

Meanwhile bill shortdick is tearing our parliament to bits over where pollies parents were born while our country goes down the shitter.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 8:35am

Great read , VJ.

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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 9:01am

Yeah it's a profound read, long, well researched. Basically if you wanted what Tyler Durden at ZH was doing for the US/EU economy in 2010 or so (how that site has fallen... some of his early bond articles were deeply impressive and taught as equally as they informed...), Barrie has written it for Australia right now.

I just can't understand why lawmakers would pass policy that did this to their nation? I mourn the loss of the car industry too - my metallic purple HJ column shift wagon was the pinnacle of Surf Beast.

Anyway, my favourite lol was the Bank of Japan (remember central banks are Chapter 5 of Mr Marx's book...) owning 75% of the Japanese ETF market - bring that one up in conversation if anyone is debating you that Capitalism actually exists and has failed... I must admit my eyebrows raised when the SNB started buying AAPL...

Anyone care to give odds on global Minsky Melt Up?

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Gaz1799 commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 1:07pm

I dont think its an if just a when now johnno. I just wonder how it will actually look in oz

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stunet commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 1:47pm

I recall reading some of TD's articles on Zero Hedge and, while they were heavy on info and analysis, and appeared to present cogent arguments for the layman, I cant recall any of his predictions coming to pass. Did I read the wrong ones, or was I perhaps too late?

I'm trying to gauge how much I should be concerned by the above article.

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blindboy commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 3:37pm

So who has sold up the family home and put it all in cash? A good piece of advice is that markets can always remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent betting against them.

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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 5:35pm

Stu I might suggest that site was (is?) more of a resource to document what happens, rather than predictions ending up true or no. Just as JK Galbraith did for 1929. There's certainly a bit of snark in the headings ("Monetary Bukake" for the BOJ when they started to print the day after the Fed halted was a giggle), probably best part of a variety of sources. This stuff will continue until the day it doesn't. One of the most obvious unrealised truths of my adult life.

BB as for the family home, there was one fellow I heard of in Perth who sold up in 2007 and put the lot in silver, could have been a very good (ballsy) trade if he timed exit well - what many did not realise was the protection of the housing market by gov when tshtf in 2008. Family homes are for living in, whether they are $17,000 or $1,700,000 and then they halve...

I have some suspicion of what's going to happen, but it's best to skip John Law and go straight to the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises:

"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

Good luck to you all in finding lifeboats. Back to surf talk for me now.

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stunet commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 5:49pm

Cheers VJ. I was never an ardent reader but tuned in every now and again and probably focussed on the aspects I was interested in: theory (with an objective to predict) as opposed to an explanation of events.

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velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 15 Nov 2017 at 6:14pm

All good Stu. Theory with an objective to predict... there was a time when advance-decline lines and relative strength divergence could be seen (a long way out) as harbingers of change, I kind of hope they still will.

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Craig commented Thursday, 16 Nov 2017 at 9:42am

Wow VJ, just read the article. All the data, stats and info, it's hard to deny that most Australians are leveraged well above their heads and when it corrects, shit's gonna get heavy.

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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 21 Nov 2017 at 9:45pm

Cruising the highway between jobs in country sa today and the only radio channel i could get was streaming an interview with the qld leader of one nation. He sounded scarily coherent!

Is this the case and does anyone think theyll be players after the election tomorrow?

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sypkan commented Tuesday, 21 Nov 2017 at 10:29pm

I said same thing re. their leader last week gaz1799

Apparently he's been stolen from the libs, so he's an experienced politician. Appearing competent is so unique to one nation he does catch your ear.

Even weirder, is it taking one nation to stand up to coal mining across queensland which hanson did tonight on the news, criticising mining the galilea basin; and lending bucks for an adani railway. Whilst the libs and labor...

One nation the great green hope...weird times...

Interesting watching open warfare on turnball too. All the freaks on sky news bagging him way better and harder than labor have been able to manage for some reason

No wonder society is such a hotbed at the moment with such divisions even within parties. Liberals, uk labor and tories, us democrats and republicans. All tearing themselves apart.

Oz labor are somehow the most united, still the most boring and uninspiring, but appearing reasonably united. Tough times sorted them out. Pity about the leader they went with

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 7:05am

Well the Battler Bus has crash again and as predicted the votes they did get were bleed from LNP supporters from FNQ. Swings to Labor and the Greens in SE Qld.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:12am

Modelling : Such a useful , accurate tool.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/263A991BDF9CB127CA2568A9001362A3?OpenDocument

Wait , let me guess - Models have improved out of sight since then and they're dead on correct from here on in . Right ?

Gives us something ( entirely fictional ) to base our discussions on in the meantime , I guess.

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sypkan commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 1:36pm

So by the governments own figures we can halt all migration until 2051, as we overshot the mark a little and blew the budget early.

Suddenly 'fuck off we're full' doesn't seem so mean.

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sypkan commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 1:40pm

The battler bus sure did crash, but not through lack of votes.

She got a pretty significant percentage

We're just lucky they are still totally incompetent

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 4:15pm

One Nation will only ever be the party of the disgruntled LNP voters of FNQ. Come next federal election they may do well in the Senate (maybe another senator) given the way the federal voting system works for the upper house. Yesterday's ON vote shows the decade long marriage of the Liberals and Nationals in Qld has been a complete failure. Joining a (so-called) socially progressive centre right party (Liberals) with the reactionary conservative retards aka the Nationals was always going to fail and if they now divorce current ON voters will go back way back to the 1950s and vote Nationals where they belong. No Brexit or Agent Orange like political movement here.

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Sheepdog commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 4:43pm

I've said it here before, and I'll say it again. Hanson and her basket case supporters are NOT the silent majority... They are the LOUDEST MINORITY. They polled 13.5% in their "supposed" stronghold, Qld. An utter embarrassment for the vile thing she is. Lost their state leader, and will probably not win one seat.
This loudest minority is already whining, calling the election rigged. And I saw on ABC yesterday that this 13.5% out commented every other party on Facebook leading up to the election. Don't quote me, but I think their social media comments were more than Labor, LNP and greens combined.
I think the dildo comments broke their back.... Here they are lying about kids being shown by teachers how to wear a strap on, when one of their candidates manages a sex shop.
Ya couldn't make this shit up if ya tried lol

Sheepdog

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:11pm

Hanson always blabbers on about listening to the people, well the tribe has spoken and they told her to fuck off.

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:56pm

no double up required

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sypkan commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:20pm

Calm down floyddog, no ones calling 'silent majority' or major 'movement'.

And, to be honest the 13.5 panned out much lower than I expected. They had it at over 20% last night when I was watching it.

But even at 13.5% its well above the greens at a measly 9%.

I just find it quite interesting that a couple of years ago one nation was literally nowhere to be seen, and the greens seemed to have a real momentum. A building momentum that made them look like being a real third force in oz politics, with potential to replace the democrats of old.

Now a few years on, the greens are going backwards.....fast..

And one nation, despite being incompetent, unpalateable, embarassing, and totally all over the shop, are doing......well.....er.....something....

not quite sure what it is (neither are they). But they aren't going anywhere.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:18pm

Imagine how many votes a party worth voting for would receive.

If such a thing existed , of course.

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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 8:56pm

"But they aren't going anywhere" ... agreed so long as they are careful with selecting their candidates (very big ask e.g. Malcolm Roberts) and stick to FNQ they might survive the next 2-3 federal elections in the senate, that's it. ON voters will desert ship as soon as the Nationals start representing them like they used to and stop pussy footing around with those pinko lefties in the Liberal Party. This story is all about how the politics of the right is unravelling and becoming fragmented and how the supporters of the right yearn for the good ole days.

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Sheepdog commented Sunday, 26 Nov 2017 at 11:24pm

Shitpan..... The name is sheepdog.
Now onto business.

"no ones calling 'silent majority' or major 'movement'."
Bullshit... Hanson herself says she represents the silent majority. Just google it.

"But even at 13.5% its well above the greens at a measly 9%"
WOOOOOWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! One bunch of losers got 4.5% more than another bunch of losers!!!!

"not quite sure what it is (neither are they). But they aren't going anywhere."

On that you're right.... They sure aren't going anywhere, unlike Qld Labor, who are going into government.

Sheepdog

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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 12:07am

Getting a bit narky there sheepdog, relax, it appears your team won...enjoy....

Hanson may well say that about the much hyped mystical silent majority . I just meant that's not what I'm saying.

I think those percentages are significant. If I was an over educated, loyal yet under experienced green minion, putting in the hard yards, for a decade or so, seeing steady growth and relevance grow for a brief period, especially under di natalie, thinking the future is ours, hard work is paying off etc etc. and then one nation storms in, with a troupe of barely educated, barely personable odd balls, and gains a convincing 50% more votes in a two year whirlwind period, I'd be thinking.....what the fuck is going on?

fwiw, I think labor got in due to lack of decent opposition rather than any actual position or achievement. As it seems Palaszczuk isn't big on either.

Q land politics looks a lot like SA. The liberal opposition in both states are so abysmal people would have to be really desperate and pissed to vote them in.

Don't take it all so personal sheepdog. Its not your fault one nation is Q land's baby.

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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 12:15am

The dildo revelation really was quite hilarious

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Blowin commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 12:21pm

How long before people accept the fact that working visas and immigration are underpinning wage stagnation and accelerating the casualisation of our workforce ?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/fresh-meat-how-major-...

Strange how it's not THE political hot topic as it concerns 90 percent of the nation .

Even those who are self employed must compete against cut rate labour hire companies and companies that refuse to pay the minimum wage.

Maybe it's not THE hot topic because it was the two major parties that are pushing the barrow of jobs for foreigners before jobs for Australians.

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Sheepdog commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 3:36pm

Blowin writes "How long before people accept the fact that working visas and immigration are underpinning wage stagnation and accelerating the casualisation of our workforce ?"

Probably never, because your statement of "fact" is utter bullshit, maybe?

here's a country you use quite often as an example re' immigration. Note the wage stagnation to use your words;

https://www.ft.com/content/0eaf2672-3eb9-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2

The whole world is being squeezed by China.
THAT'S the "facts". Nothing to do with work visas, Japan's situation proves it.
I could post other countries wage stagnation. But you're a big boy. You can research it.

Sheepdog

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inzider commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 4:05pm

I think blowins point has some merit
NZ is currently enticing 20,000 chippies from the UK. I know Foreman chippies on $28 p hour
Cheap labour via working visas is fucking over A lot of NZ workers
Not to mention the youth with no apprenticeships

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Blowin commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 5:26pm

Of course it does.

Why else do you think they came up with the visa work schemes ?

Maybe the government did it because they're such big hearted individuals that wanted to share Australia's wealth globally , eh Sheepdog ?

PS Couldn't access your link , Sheepy .

Paywall.

Got anything else ?

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Blowin commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 5:56pm

Go tell that to the people of Tamworth.

When you're done there you can tell it to the people in the town not far from me that barely see the dozens of Koreans working the blueberry farm and living in dongas onsite whilst unemployment is through the roof amongst the locals.

After that you can make your way around the country and inform the underpaid or unemployed locals that what they are experiencing is not true or even actually happening because of .....well, just look at Japan.

Such a parallel.....not.

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Blowin commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 5:58pm

What part of " Hundreds of migrant workers " didn't you understand , Sheepy ?

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happyasS commented Monday, 27 Nov 2017 at 7:06pm

i would say wage stagnation is mostly structurally driven. a slow/weak/changing economy including the mining sector slowdown, and low inflation rates in most countries since GFC. but low demand for aussie workers surely plays a part in some industries. ive said before, go build a house with a big builder and watch who turns up, plenty of trades using workers with zero english skills. im sure they are being paid bottom dollar.