What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Friday, 7 Jul 2017 at 9:35am

Alright, it's the new 457.

Remove the inconvenience of labor costs and vote Liberal!

 

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Friday, 7 Jul 2017 at 9:50am

So the workers of Australia will see themselves gradually outmoded by " interns " who receive their pay from the taxpayers ....who are ( were ) the workers.

I've never actually seen a snake eat its own tail before , but I'm sure it would work in a similar fashion as this new business strategy.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 2:59pm

Just watched today's ABC's Insiders on iview (having surfed the morning TB).

Two of the panelist made some very interesting observations right at the end of the show.

One panelist said in regard to the most recent elections in Canada, the UK and France voters under 40 voted in increased numbers and with huge swings for the left (Canada and UK) and for Macron in France. The three stated reasons they voted this way were their concerns for (1.) housing affordability (2.) high student debts and (3) uncertainty and casualisation of employment.

The second panelist observed that the 2016 census found a huge increase in people under the age of 40 with absolutely no income while also finding a huge increases in people over 60 earning over $2,000 and $3,000 per week.

Both panelists remarked we have a government here that(1.) has done next to nothing about housing affordability (2) has increased the cost burden on students in the 2017 budget (3) and is supporting the reduction of penalty rates which most impacts on young workers.

That 2016 census data on over 60 and 70 year olds would also reflect the current government's unwillingness to tackle the ridiculously generous tax concessions for superannuation.

They also discussed concerns about the Government's intern idea

Now about two years out from the next federal election assuming it goes full term ......

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 7:01pm

Yeah GS, the government can clearly see a small snippet of the writing on the wall regarding public opinion on neoliberal dogma, hence its flaccid attempt at a centre-right budget this year (as opposed to an old fashioned, Joe Hockey-style far right budget).

However, we all know that their ideology and also the influence of their masters runs too deep for them to go far enough.

Considering the global momentum against the right, what does Bill Shorten have to do to lose the un lose-able??

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 7:11pm

Walk in front of a bus? Reckon Shorten needs to look closely at what policies Sanders and Corbyn took to the voters, he runs the risk of being seen to be too close to the LNP if he doesn't. Time for Labor to push for the change the electorate is looking for.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 7:34pm

The public has been screaming at Labor to pick up the fucking ball for years.

And now there's even a virtually foolproof template laid out in front of them...

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 7:40pm

I can't ride waves without juice.

Need a bit of power and shape. Doesn't have to be big, just not weak.

There, I've said it.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 7:55pm

North Korea..........
Last time I checked, They have not bombed anyone.... In 70 years.... Tested some missiles... But hey, we did that too... Unlike us, they didnt bomb their indigenous people.

Now have have our pollies lining up wanting to bomb them, throwing around hypotheticals, like old beetroot Barnaby.
Can't we just be happy with our bombing runs in the Middle East?

We also have Turnbuckle talking of a missile defence shield because of "nuclear threat".
Fuckn spare me..... North Korea is not going to bomb Darwin.
This is madness.

Sheepdog

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 8:01pm

Funny if they did ,cause im sure the chinese have a 99 year lease on it....boom

simba

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 8:23pm

Hey Dog, part of the reason why we're being told we should bomb North Korea could have something to do with the fact that there are only 118 people comprising the directorships of the ten biggest media companies.

And four of the top ten media corporations share board directorships with the major “defence” contractors, including Bechtel, Boeing, Carlyle Group, Halliburton and Lockheed Martin.

Worth a read.

https://independentaustralia.net/business/business-display/why-does-main...

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 9:10pm

The current alarm over North Korea is unwarranted. What reason would they ever have to use them when they know it would mean instant annihilation? The logic in developing them is very simple. No-one will attack them if they have a nuclear capability. And absolutely right Andy! Now is the moment for Labor to seize the initiative on a whole range of issues, climate change, taxation and refugees, for a start. The pendulum is ready to swing the other way. The only problem is......not a credible leader in sight!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 9 Jul 2017 at 9:39pm

BB, I'm no fan of Labor but as you've suggested we have to provide whatever momentum we can to help the pendulum start its swing back.

Would prefer Plibeseck to Shorten but at the end of the day would just be happy with some moderate policies with a view to the future.

Gaz1799's picture
Gaz1799's picture
Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 10:48am

Shorten is just no good as a leader. Same same. Nothing to offer. Plibersek presents well but she's just another career politician doing the same. 20 years as an MP (she was elected at 28) offering more of the same. They need to put some new faces forward.

@GS those observations about the old hanging onto the wealth at the expense of the youth seems to be lost on everyone but the greens. It's no wonder they are the protest party of choice for young voters.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 11:03am

“A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.”

Lenny Tzu describing Billy Shortbread?

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stunet commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 11:26am
GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 11:37am

@stu, i'm not a big time critic of shorten for what he did during the rudd/gillard saga and i support his and his party's push to put polices out there before the election. don't really know but he seems to be more of a consensus leader than say an abbott and i think that is a very good thing. his front bench has plenty of talent which is in stark contrast to the lack of talent on the government benches. i think shorten and labor need to be bolder in their policy settings now, they could go further on housing, neg gearing, 1/2 cgt, 457s, and foreign investment .... i say this because i have this feeling that both major parties have moved increasingly to the right in the last decade something that sanders and corbyn spoke to in the US and UK.

yeah that Chris Uhlman knows how to sum it up, big hit among the #fakenews outlets, haha

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 1:23pm

Yes, bb, not a credible leader in sight.
If anyone thinks Shorten makes up policies then you need to spend more time in Labor's internal power structure. I would suggest Turnbull does set policies but not with support his party.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 1:28pm

There are so many talented people that never even get a sniff of attention from Labors shadow ministry. The only ones that we seem to hear about are the hacks that came out of the unions, who in my opinion are the ones of the least use to us. Time to send a few of the old career has-beens out to pasture and bring in some fresher more accomplished stock.

Gai Brodtmann (ALP shadow minister) is actually married to Chris Uhlmann would you believe.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 1:57pm

You're right TonyBarber, Shorten doesn't make up policies, Labor policies emerge from national conferences and the caucus system of internal governance. More measured/democratic perhaps than captain's calls and the Lib's with their "broad church" party room discussions now divided between conservatives and moderates.

Unions: There is now a school of thought amongst some leading economists that the bargaining power of workers is now back where it was over 100 years ago. Even the Reserve Bank governor last week called on people to ask for a pay rise because stagnate wages growth is now a major risk of the economy and has already shown the current year budget projections are totally wrong. One of the principle reasons why workers no longer have the bargaining power they once enjoyed is low union membership. While many may applaud that with a doubling of part-time work in 10 years and increased casualisation of the workforce it might be a case of be careful what you wish for.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 2:17pm

If unions want to stay relevant they should open up and volunteer to be "registered organisations" just as other entities that raise funds from the public are required to do. Get rid of the fat-cats who sit in the top job for 20 years at the members expense and continuously get re-elected by 100% of union members. It's a farce. I've never been a union member because I wouldn't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth & I can do a better job myself.

I don't downplay the significance of the movement or the benefits we've all had, but unions need to understand they need to make people WANT to be members and not constantly appeal to the lowest denominator. Bring in decent representatives and be transparent.

Example, last year I didn't get a raise. I emailed my boss and called a staff review. Long story short I ended up with 10%. It still costs more to advertise and train a new employee than it costs to pay someone more and the difference in what people are paid to do the same job is often staggering.

I agree with you on the casualization of the workforce and the macro effects of job modernisation, internet, globalization etc etc but people need to understand their true bargaining power themselves and not wait for some union space cadet to do the bargaining on their behalf.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 2:45pm

I might also add, one of the symptoms of the workforce casualization is actually a response to militancy of unions when it comes to hiring and firing. Yes, people deserve to be treated fairly and not dismissed unfairly etc but employers can't dismiss people if they aren't performing anymore. The hoops are huge. 3 formal warnings and then a potential lawsuit it ends up costing $10k-$50k regardless of whether its a redundancy or not once legal fees and potential damages are awarded, or if a redundancy is paid out up front.

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loungelizard commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 3:08pm

not foolproof andy, you like it!
sanders hung on because people couldnt stand clinton, how much did they hate her? enough to elect trump.. yet sanders was way behind even clinton.

and corbynn? hes a clown, the only reason he got close is because may was hopeless. i was over there during the election, i was watching her interviewed and thought it was a blooper reel, but then it kept going, and she got worse. her own party were saying she "had a shocker" prior to the election.

your dreams of a popular socialist revolt have as much chance as me taking off under the lip at big chopes.

tell me again how castro "was forced " to be a dictator (for 60 odd years), executing and imprisoning political opponents. and no, i dont expect you to recant anything, my guess from your posts is mummy and daddy were lefties/hippies around the 60's early 70's, maybe tafe teachers? your language is full of the crap from that era. its little different from religion and as pointless arguing with believers.. i suggest holding your breath pending the great socialist awakening

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 3:13pm

"and as pointless arguing with believers.. "

But you're doing what?

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 3:17pm

Gaz, much to agree with in you last 2 comments, unions do need to be more open and democratic but how much bargaining power does a casual shop attendant have for e.g? Males in the US haven't had an effective increase in their pay since the mid 1970s? This that what we want here? globally? Profits are up but wages are stagnate or going backwards; how does that work now and in the long-term?

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 3:51pm

Couldn't comment on the US situation Smiley as its a different economy that I'm not familiar with. As far as Aus goes, I would hate to be a business owner in retail paying sky high rents battling against online shopping and then discovering I need to pay double time on my 2 busiest days of the week to a relatively unskilled worker. The world is a different place now and hard bargaining by unions in low skilled jobs will only make them extinct, as we've already seen with manufacturing, call centres etc. I keep hearing people say profits are up but it defies all logic I'm seeing.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 4:36pm

There is lots of available information on the US and how executive salaries have gone through the roof at the same time real wages for workers have gone backwards since the 1970s. Equally there is lots of studies showing a direct link between the "happiness" of a society and that gap between the highest and lowest paid. As someone that worked hard from 14 years and put myself through uni and then worked hard hours each week I'm not advocating a socialist world but I just wonder if we all value a lawful, safe and descent society (I'm assuming we all do) how can that exist when people live hard while others live in extreme luxury?

Its interesting you mention rents Gaz, knew a shop keeper who lost the lot over two years and rents killed him and also studied with a shopping centre manager and what he told us about the contracts shopkeepers are forced to sign would have kept all of them awake at night. Profits go up so does the rent (monthly sales figures for all shops needed to be provided to centre management). Conversely, if sales fell you ran the risk of being booted out thank you very much.

That;s it from me, I'm talking too much

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 4:55pm

Yep if retailers can't make money in a high traffic place like Westfield there's something wrong. It sounds like they're running a cartel.

The US system is very much broken in my opinion, at least the social class aspect and prospects of ever improving ones conditions. They portray the average joe over there as someone with a chain of franchises or an entrepreneur that sold a patent etc etc and the working class seems to be largely ignored, at least that's the impression I get from what they project overseas. I've never been there tho so my opinion is entirely speculative.

As far as the big executives on huge pay go, well yes they all earn stupid money and its an outrage, BUT in Aus small businesses employ about half of all workers so we can't let the alarmist media or unionists try and sway the argument against "big corporates" all the time.
Small family businesses wear the brunt of the legislation unions demand and they can't afford it, hence casual workforce. I've also noticed just from talking to various people over the years that women between 20-40 are more likely to end up casual either before or after having kids simply for businesses to avoid maternity leave or keeping a position open. We've all seen it but THIS is the sort of things unions should be tackling. And it's prevalent amongst the big corporates who "claim" to be progressive modern utopias when in actual fact they are nothing of the sort.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 6:14pm

So loungelizard, are you denying that there's currently a global rejection of neoliberalism, and ergo (do ya like that word, big fella?) a demand for more left-leaning policies?

It's also implicit (there's another one for ya!) in your post that you support the current system - do you think it's working well?

I don't expect a sensible or civil reply from you, so basically, first take a big step back and then literally fuck your own face.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 commented Monday, 10 Jul 2017 at 11:25pm

AndyM recently stated elsewhere - "Also, whether I agree with you or not, respect for civilly standing by your position while other people abuse you and throw shit at you."

Then this......

"I don't expect a sensible or civil reply from you, so basically, first take a big step back and then literally fuck your own face."

https://youtu.be/tmoyu4VO5LE

It's all good mate. You're only human :-)

Crystal Clear

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 9:53am

"I don't expect a sensible or civil reply from you, so basically, first take a big step back and then literally fuck your own face."

Haha BAM! Put that in ya pipe and smoke it!

But seriously, there's probably actually a global rejection of both Neoliberalism AND socialism. Neoliberalism perhaps more recently than socialism. The new norm is protectionism and maybe we'll even regress back to totalitarianism the way we're heading. In SA we might get rastafarianism? Donaldism? Weatherillism? Nothing wrong with socialist ideals except its been proven that human nature can't be trusted with absolute power and those types of societies have often crumbled under the faults of corrupted individuals.

Loungelizard maybe we won't get the great socialist awakening but the world would still be a miserable place if there weren't still a few people pushing a few of the more humane leftist policies forward.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 10:31am

Morning Gaz

" ....except its been proven that human nature can't be trusted with absolute power .."

Too true, but how does that explain the election of Trump. The peabrain is no socialist although the gullible in the rust belt and bayou bought his line I guess.

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 11:21am

yeh its sad when voters are forced to choose the piece of shit that stinks the least from an even bigger pile of crap. A sad indictment on the state of the US media in my opinion, as it both made Trump rich AND got him elected.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 12:30pm

when you refer to an even bigger pile of crap and the media surely you are talking about murdoch

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 1:14pm

Sensationalist, crappy tabloid style journalism isn't just limited the Murdoch press, I'm referring to the "democratic" system that somehow framed the selection down to 2 of the most hated candidates in modern times. The bigger pile of crap is the system that allowed it to happen. The media have a responsibility and you can't just blame Trump for lying, cheating etc you also have to blame the media for siding with Hillary at all. The people have never been so betrayed. They inadvertently picked sides just because Hillary was considered the lesser evil and Trump was throwing stones. Nothing democratic about that.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 5:28pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/11/why-a-population-of-say...

Great comment saying half immigration and double asylum places.

Preferably , reduce immigration by 75 percent and to limited to genuine skills shortages and triple asylum placings.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 11 Jul 2017 at 10:22pm

And here's a companion article to yours Blowin.

https://theconversation.com/five-lessons-from-tokyo-a-city-of-38m-people...

Amongst other issues, it highlights how woeful Australian government investment has been in infrastructure such as public transport.

Also, I'd like to apologise for yesterday's outburst - I, well, I was just overcome...

Sometimes as a traveler on life's dusty, bumpy highways, we fall below the lofty standards we set for ourselves - so anyway thank you SO much for sharing my journey, I’m so blessed and this conversation really resonates with me.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and survivors.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 17 Jul 2017 at 10:59am

Feel like doing a bit of good in the world and maybe making a few dollars ?

Dimerix ( DXB : ASX ) is working through the university of WA on new medication that could potentially improve the treatment of chronic kidney disease.

Phase 2a trials for safety just completed successfully showing for safety of DMX 200 their main drug . Also showing significant efficacy.

Orphan drug status giving a 7 year window of competitive advantage over a market that hasn't seen any real advances since the 90's . Kidney disease becoming exponentially impactful on global populations into the future.

They also own the technology that resulted in their recent discoveries.

1.5 cents per share.

Could go totally arse up , who knows ? A lot of present and future kidney disease sufferers would be hoping not. This is not financial advice ! I know fuck all. It never hurts to bet on the crew trying to improve the world though !

http://webcasting.boardroom.media/broadcast/596850f892413433ebbff0c2

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 17 Jul 2017 at 11:00am

Double tap.

Gaz1799's picture
Gaz1799's picture
Gaz1799 commented Tuesday, 18 Jul 2017 at 4:17pm

Breaking news - the greens are in free-fall after losing two senators to legal jargon from a "helpful" WA lawyer.

Funny how all of these "administrative" problems only seem to happen to the minor parties eg Family First, One Nation, Greens etc etc. The gloves are really off as far as trying to annihilate all protest parties before the next election.

Do you think maybe the major parties are running scared?

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 20 Jul 2017 at 6:14pm
Shatner'sBassoon's picture
Shatner'sBassoon's picture
Shatner'sBassoon commented Thursday, 20 Jul 2017 at 6:20pm

Turkey, to paraphrase, when I hear the word 'Abetz', that's when I reach for my gun.

Surfboard.

Meanwhile, check this reasoned and concise analysis (if your quota ain't used up or you're a gasp! subscriber!)

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/opinion/topic/2017/07/15/the-death-n...

Any arguments?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Thursday, 20 Jul 2017 at 7:24pm

I think the guy's on the money.

For the first time in decades ("the renewal of a conversation that was rudely interrupted in the 70s"), after such a long and inexorable swing to the right, there's finally been the beginnings of a broader acknowledgement of the need to consider a social democracy as opposed to hardcore neoliberalism.

Old mate Guy Rundle covers it well but I think he could also add to the evidence the LNP's (relative) change of heart regarding their budget - they can see the beginnings of a swing and I expect that their very well remunerated advice has told them to act now or else face the consequences.

However Rundle is also correct when he says that if the "left" get it wrong , the right will continue to steamroll them.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Friday, 21 Jul 2017 at 2:05pm

I think you cut the quote a bit short andym

"This is essentially the renewal of a conversation that was rudely interrupted in the 1970s. However, should the left want to genuinely draw a mass to its support, it will have to abandon impossible notions of internationalism or borderlessness, and combine a social democratic politics with a genuine communalism, replacing the symbolic patriotism spruiked by the free-market right. After all, the only reason Corbyn Labour got a hearing was because Brexit had decided the question of open borders in advance, and in the negative. Labour simply had to commit to abiding by the referendum result and the public was satisfied. Had they been stuck defending open borders, Corbyn would now be on the way to being a Trivial Pursuit question circa 2027. Should the left fail to offer people the social democracy they want, the right will fill the breach, and this time they will not falter."

Did that guy just deplore racism and bag open borders in the same article?

Now we are getting somewhere!

Open borders was always a pipedream. 30 years of neoliberalism only exacebated inequality both within communities, and across the globe, making it way beyond palatable.

Get over it and move on, as pointed out above. If the left fucks this opportunity up they are well and truly doomed.

Surely someone has a better idea than throwing around terms like socialism. While I agree with much in the article, I don't sense many people have an appetite for socialism.

Besides how are we going to pay for all this reinvestment in services?

Especially when neoliberalism sold off all the government assetts. Then pissed it against the wall - in a back slapping festival enjoyed by the bourgoise from both the left and right - as they both deluded themselves that they were 'killing it'

Not 'killing it' at all....never were. Just an attitude from both sides of getting what individuals wanted and Fuck the rest.

Compartmentalisation again

combined with identity politics, it was a lethal mix.

A perfect storm of how to divide societies

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Saturday, 22 Jul 2017 at 3:55pm

"But under the new Tudge definition, unemployment benefits have risen and are adequate – “not a lot of money, but not complete deprivation”

Well..... As long as it isn't complete deprivation, I fell a heck of a lot better for those bludgers.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/22/alan-tudge-waves-...

Sheepdog

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 22 Jul 2017 at 6:25pm

Sheepdog, its not Strumpet City* here yet but its getting there. Going be an interesting week in politics, stand by for the Murdoch press to explode.

*James Plunkett's novel set in 1913 Dublin (recommended read).

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
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Shatner'sBassoon commented Saturday, 22 Jul 2017 at 9:15pm

Fucken great book

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Saturday, 22 Jul 2017 at 11:40pm

Guy, what your prediction on the murdoch press explosion? Who are they hunting this week?

Sheepdog

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Sunday, 23 Jul 2017 at 8:05am

I've heard Shorten will be making some major announcements on taxation reform.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 23 Jul 2017 at 10:28am

Even funnier than some of TonyBarber's forum contributions ....

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2016/s4706368.htm

tonybarber's picture
tonybarber's picture
tonybarber commented Sunday, 23 Jul 2017 at 7:48pm

It's pleasing to see you see the humour Mr Smiley. Have not seen the link but can I assume it is humorous.

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