Reforming of Islam

nick3's picture
nick3 started the topic in Friday, 2 Jun 2017 at 3:08pm

When will the teachings of Islam be reformed to be more relevant in the 21st century and why is it that people in this modern society still believe in god. I would have thought that any one with a funtional brain can see it as fabricated myth handed down from centuries ago.
To have people kill others in the name of god is made more sickening by the fact one doesn't exist.

Herc's picture
Herc's picture
Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:08am

Yes Dave. And some people who have success in that pursuit, even suggests the question is better asked as 'What am I', in order to help not get stuck, or lost in the baggage the term 'I' holds on to, and raises, but to help get through it, to 'That', to the 'Source'.

happyasS's picture
happyasS's picture
happyasS commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:09am

Ah, I didnt know that dave. cheers

ok blowin, i cant defend the punishment side of things. so no giggles and hope u had a good surf. but if we were to talk generally about religion and its interpretation then its society and unfortunately in the case of pakistan (it the govt) that interprets the necessary punishment. i can only assume that the quran doesnt specify a punishment of death for blasphemy but anyhow that is probably debatable with all the friggen scholars out there. i guess what im saying is that "culture" is what often determine religious interpretation. so whether islam requires "reform" is more about the country and its culture than anything else. for example in australia any extreme interpretation of islam would be come down up like a tonne of bricks. in that sense its really up to 'us' to pull religions into line. that being said, how pakistan wants to interpret their own religion is their business and i really couldnt give a shit about what they want to do there.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:19am

Must be a Pakistani cultural thing. It'd never happen here.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sydney-protesters-call-for-b...

You do realise the Hebdo offices aren't in Pakistan don't you ?

I'm at a weak , crowded though very pretty and lined up point break ....think I know where might be cracking.

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:33am

Watch out for the red mist again blowie. If you over react again with your manic, hysterical, dysfunctional but intellectual behaviour that you so marvellously and proudly described here, and assault and try to kill another person, with all your being, and passion, you might be mistaken for an extremist!

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:37am

Isn't that just the point though Herc? : that we can have these conversations, sometimes heated and even offensive and not feel threatened by religious sanction.

Pakistan bloke having the same conversation on social media has now been sentenced to death, yes Death, for blasphemy for doing the same thing.

Thats pretty fucked up, no?

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:39am

The key question is whether you wish to live in a democratic secular society or not. We claim our society is secular but the recent Gonksi changes are indicating otherwise. The same is for Islam. Indonesia is an example where it can work but now showing fragility. The Muslims we have here have come non-secular societies so they are having trouble accepting what is here. There is no doubt, this radicalisation has to be fought and stopped by Muslims.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:43am

I agree with that TB, but just to clarify: most of the islamic terrorism is being done by people who have grown up in that country ie they are Aus citizens, french citizens, UK citizens etc etc.

That is, they have grown up in secular democracies.

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:50am

I should stop telling the truth. It's illegal. So, by the way, that surfing and shaping 'legend' 'Richo' didn't win that tube riding contest in Bali on his twinnie, which he described as the best board ever in the tube. And he didn't point out the advantages he had by riding it, the twinkie rather than the thrusters that all the other contestants rode that were dysfunctional in the difficult barrels, and put them all at a disadvantage. Stuie and blowie and another guy I daren't name won on thrusters as they also pointed out how twinnies are shit and useless, in fact dangerous in decent waves, especially barrels. Is that legal?

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:53am

I should stop telling the truth. It's illegal. So, by the way, that surfing and shaping 'legend' 'Richo' didn't win that tube riding contest in Bali on his twinnie, which he described as the best board ever in the tube. And he didn't point out the advantages he had by riding it, the twinnie, rather than the thrusters that all the other contestants rode that were dysfunctional in the difficult barrels, and put them all at a disadvantage. Stuie and blowie and another guy I daren't name won on thrusters as they also pointed out how twinnies are shit and useless, in fact dangerous in decent waves, especially barrels. Is that legal?

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:52am

sounds legit.
how they go on your backhand?

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:58am

Never ridden one. Oops sorry, there I go again! Yes I have. So they must be shit. Because I didn't. That's science for you. I've seen them go real good backhand in some bombs though. Shit, hang on, no I didn't. Fuck, this bullshitting stuff isn't as easy as it looks!

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 10:58am

Never ridden one. Oops sorry, there I go again! Yes I have. So they must be shit. Because I didn't. That's science for you. I've seen them go real good backhand in some bombs though. Shit, hang on, no I didn't. Fuck, this bullshitting stuff isn't as easy as it looks!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 11:04am

The blasphemy deal ? Perhaps it's just a few lone wolf morons ?

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-indonesia-jakarta-blasphemy-protest-2...

Free ride - A couple of days ago I had a little taste of a Scooby and went for a surf. On the way to the beach I spotted a cow grazing next to the road. Being stoned , I pulled over and started mooing . The cow looked up and stared straight at me . It mooed in my direction.

This is an engagement similar to that where you are interacting with Uplift.

You think that you're communicating with the cow as you're approximating the sounds emitted from its mouth , but it's speaking in its own language. A language not related to ours .

And when it's static and motionless , you assume it's deep in thought.

It's not.

Hey , maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're the Dr Doolittle of disfunctional gymtards.

Good luck with that .

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 11:08am

Herc, I agree. I raised it to show we all are a work in progress. But intentionally cultivating our connection to the Source leads to that peaceful, kind individual and community.

davetherave

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 12:18pm

Yeh, that's true Dave. That doesn't guarantee instant popularity though. Sometimes the opposite. No reason not to want the truth though. I reckon if a Jesus showed up today, it wouldn't take as long. Well, they're more advanced now. The sophisticated peacemaker weapons and stuff are already in production for heading out into the galaxy. And leaving a nice example of what will happen to your planet if you fuck with peacemakin' good ol uncle whitey! Still, the heathens need assistance.

Another marvellous story blowie. Thank God you didn't kick that cow into a twitching mess! In the mist.

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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 12:27pm

Oh, oh! You didn't did you?

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 1:17pm

Reflecting on Tony B's and Dave's comments above yes we do live in a democratic secular society but also multicultural and we are age richer for it. But depending on where you sit in society you can have a plus or minus experience of its benefits. So its a fluid thing, a work in progress if you like on an individual and society wide level. Just like things here could be way better other places like Indonesia, as TonyB points out, also has work to do. So is the question do we want to live in a democratic secular society (obviously) but rather can we respect and co-operatively work with countries that aren't so but are somewhere along that spectrum of nationhood and all its foibles? Perhaps the world would be a better safer place if we did.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 1:29pm

Blowin points out a pakistani facing the death penalty for Blasphemy.

Well we've had a thread on the death penalty.. Pretty sure Blowin supports a country's right to their own laws. i think it was the bali drug mules thread.

But if charges for Blasphemy is what you are offended about Blowin, then I'm sure you will tear strips off "christian" ireland.

"Under Ireland’s Defamation Act 2009 a person who publishes or utters blasphemous material “shall be guilty of an offence”. A conviction can lead to a fine of up to €25,000."

I'm pretty sure Stephen Fry got away with this, but I'm glad Ireland doesnt have the death penalty.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/may/07/stephen-fry-investigated...

Sheepdog

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 1:58pm

So you're defending blasphemy laws are you , Sheepdog ?

I dont understand what you're trying to say.

You think that two wrongs - Ireland and Pakistan - make a right ?

Maybe you're trying to say that Pakistan , with its execution of blasphemers , is no worse than Ireland where Stephen Fry got some mean stuff written about him in letters to the editor whilst avoiding any actual punishment ?

Is that what you're saying ?

frog's picture
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frog commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 2:02pm

Wikislam:
"It is clear quite clear that under Islamic Law an apostate must be put to death. There is no dispute on this ruling among classical Muslim or modern scholars..."
"In Sub-Saharan Africa alone, 6 million Muslims are leaving Islam each and every year. Once the majority faith of the continent, they are now the minority with Christianity being the majority. The sheer volume of recent apostates is unprecedented in the history of Islam"

All is not well within the religion it seems if so many people risk everything to leave.

Frogg

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 2:13pm

Frog , mate, please don't introduce fact into the lives of those that wish to defend a downtrodden , minority religion - only a quarter of the Earth's population - that is currently asserting the sort of rejected colonialistic tendencies that saw the historic acts of the Western world labelled as .....wait for it ....the Greatest Barbarity ever perpetrated by mankind .

Cause if the Muslim usurpation of territory in the Phillipines, Myanmar and Thailand amongst others isn't colonialism , then what is it ?

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 3:46pm

Herc v Blowie. Wowee! What a contest!

'Cept there is no contest. Of any kind.

Poor ol' Blowie. Cow-puncher in the mist.

Time to crank it up in a 'Chinese' thread, comrade?

Third time's a charm...

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 3:27pm

Before you get too stoked , Turkey, let me remind you that for quite a while I thought you WERE Uplift ( Herc ) .

Go and reread his posts and ask yourself if that's who you really want to be mistaken for.

Yeeeewwwww !!!

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 3:34pm

Wait up. Lemme get this straight. You thought I was Big Lifty and that's got what to do with me again (apart from your own whacky perceptions)?

Are you claiming you're the fount of all/some/any knowledge?

Suppository of wisdom?

Don't make me dredge up my particular favourite example of your previous output on here.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 3:35pm

No, blowin... that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you are a hypocrite.
You are pro death penalty. (I'm not)
You are pro a country's right to exercise their own laws even if they go against our beliefs (I'm not) ( re Andrew Chan and Sukumarin being shot for heroin dealing, and Corby's ridiculously long sentence for a couple of pound of your favourite herb) -

But Pakistan are doing exactly what you have stated you ideologically support, yet you use it in an argument to attack your "religious opponent".

Sheepdog

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talkingturkey commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 3:39pm

Blowie's a bit punch-drunk.

Or just drunk.

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 4:12pm

Ah, back to the judean people's front are we. Are there any women here at the stoning? What? Only bloody Brian again. Always look on the bright side of life. Death penalty, blasphemy, Isis, Osiris, Islam, Christianity, all part of life like farts ,knock backs and last minute losses. Yet the planet still spins and you and me pass from moment to moment. What moment um will you use to define your future moments?. I am choosing loving kindness.

davetherave

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 4:43pm

Dave , let's be honest here, You're choosing opiation.

Whilst it may seem like heaven , it's , it's ....well , maybe it is heaven.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 6:00pm

blowin, http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sydney-protesters-call-for-b...

6 people was all. i get your point, but im not all that excited about it. lots of reform is needed all round. catholism included. still today we have Pell covering up tens of thousands of attrocities.

SD. you say your not pro a country's right to exercise laws even if they go against our beliefs but what does this mean in practical terms? are you just talking about laws for their own residents or are you talking about application of their laws to our residents (e..g corby)?
how can we expect countries to get along if we can't simply accept their way of life?

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 6:05pm

How was it that Christianity even entered the conversation and what is its relevance ?

Sheepdog's classic Whataboutery technique, no doubt.

Happyass - 6 people arrested , not 6 people protesting.

We already accomodate other countries laws when in situ , doesn't mean we have to respect them in thought.

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 6:54pm

'How was it that Christianity even entered the conversation and what is its relevance ?'

Frog brought it up. Ages ago. Remember him? The guy you sarcastically praised for introducing facts.

And then you discussed it. Remember? When you were layin' down the law? Remember?

'Happyass - For sure the rules regarding the crime of blasphemy are the same for Islam and Christianity ie both are utterly ridiculous as seen through the prism of rational thought.'

Your being very forgetful these days blowie. Punch drunk? One too many bintangs? Are you sure it was a cow?

Good 'ol uncle blowie! 'Yeh, well, fuck the memory and fuck the past! Just move on! Or with every ounce of will ,energy and misdirected anger from every point of my life I'll drive my fist into that cunt's putrid face and punch him to the sand.'

Super! Marvelous!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 7:43pm

Sorry Herc , oftentimes I'll even dismiss the entire premise of the thread in order to get a chuckle out of taking the piss out of one or another of the local slack jaws.....like now for instance !

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0HIA5OK-Ic

I know , I know....why do I keep posting these ?

Because I can't believe that anyone would be empty enough to think this spew inducing , flouro light saturated mindlessness was a worthwhile activity.

But there you are , Lifty.

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 8:27pm

'But there you are , Lifty.'

Thank you so much blowie! But no need to jam both feet in your mouth, and reflex kick the living shit out of yourself on my behalf!

Like I said, I've got to stop telling the truth! looking around the site, its not hard to see that you are a bit of an expert in the fitness world too, like you were in the board design, twin fin world. No doubt you've given that 'legend' 'Richo' a good pasting about his uniformed, silly comments! And bloody MR! Well, then there's also that video of, compared to your and your bands level of shralpin, gronks Craike and co, getting barrelled off their scones on those old twinnies, although its from that other horrible, horrible, inferior, disgusting place!

Looking around the site, you also were extremely, extremely, hysterically interested in, and aimed your considerable health and fitness expertise and experience at the useless pass time of weight training in gyms. With machines too, and their total irrelevance to shredding at your marvelous level! Well, again, looking around, that is, when your poor little rotator cuffs aren't completely fucked (again), and your tummy isn't bulging! Mind you, you weren't and aren't alone there. Looking around, other 'experts', who again, I daren't name, chimed in to complete the (looney) tune! Well, that is until likewise their plethora of crippling injuries drowned them out too. But again then there's that bloomin' truth. I've got to stop telling the truth, its illegal! At the risk of the 'red mist' kicking in, and poor RCJ being subject to:

'Then the red mist came over me
It was the assumed resentment of the women that really got me.
The smug superiority of some small minded no- one cunt moll that set me off. I turned to face Loud Mouth in front of his cunting piece of shit friends and with every ounce of will ,energy and misdirected anger from every point of my life i drove my fist into that cunt's putrid face and punched him to the sand.'

' Thank fuck i did not have a gun cause if i did i would have shot the cunt. The only thing that stopped me from kicking him till he twitched was some chick throwing herself over his prostrate form.'

http://www.kieser.com.au/client-stories/ross-clarke-jones

Thanks again blowie, carry on bullshitting, you make it look so easy, even with your feet jammed down your throat, permanently!

Herc's picture
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Herc commented Monday, 12 Jun 2017 at 11:19pm

See ya Andy, ya bright spark!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 13 Jun 2017 at 12:01am

Not a dry eye in the house Herc, ya sentimental fool...

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Tuesday, 13 Jun 2017 at 11:14am

Yeah blowin, heaven is a state of mind. Pretty easy though when you live where I do. Especially now I turned telly off and stopped reading the papers. Humour and nature are my opiates.

davetherave

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Tuesday, 13 Jun 2017 at 3:07pm

Everyone see this on the telly? In the papers? Yeah, nah?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/20-million-muslims-m...

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 13 Jun 2017 at 3:30pm

That really humanises their plight for me , Turkey.

Previously I just assumed they ate their children.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d50SOLH5naI

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Tuesday, 13 Jun 2017 at 4:18pm

Although I do get all my current affairs from swellnet. So I am really well informed.

davetherave

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 14 Jun 2017 at 8:54am

My muslim workmate put me onto this guy

Trigger warning: Those prone to thinking australia is full of racist cunts that need beating with sticks may have their worldview challenged.

Watch the vid with the aussie flag in the background, it starts really slow at the beginning, and his use of 'patriot' is as nauseating as the reclaim australia crew, but he really gets going towards the end.

My friend was wondering through the beginning of the vid why he never gets on abc....by the end of the vid I knew why

https://m.facebook.com/imamtawhidi/?refid=52&__tn__=C

nick3's picture
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nick3 commented Thursday, 15 Jun 2017 at 8:51am

Coming to a suburb next to you. This is the same ideology that most Iman's teach.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/.../the-killing-of-farkhunda.h...

Gaz1799's picture
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Gaz1799 commented Thursday, 15 Jun 2017 at 9:54am

Great link Sypo thats an eye opener. I was surprised how many muslim friends I actually have after the Saudi soccer debarcle last week but I'm not surprised that they all hold the same views on islam and peace. One was sitting in the stands with the Saudi delegation and noted that they all respectfully observed the minutes silence along with him. The media don't like to report that bit though.

frog's picture
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frog commented Monday, 19 Jun 2017 at 5:59pm

An illuminating insider's view that highlights the turmoil many are facing within Islam due to circumstances not of their personal making and points to a major cause and effect that is carefully sidestepped in much political and media commentary, in part, because of the power of the big "O" word (that rhymes with soil):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/17/saudi-arabia-isis-...

I struggle to see much growth from conversion in these times - it just is not that appealing to outsiders to enter such turmoil by choice. High birth rates may still be enough though to create political power in some countries.

Frogg