What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 4:25pm

Sheepy - not saying you're on disability - not there's anything wrong with that - but that it's the overly empathetic nature of people like yourself that allows others to rort the system .

And what's wrong with posting on weekdays ?

I'm unemployed , you should be on my side !

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 5:50pm

"...but that it's the overly empathetic nature of people like yourself that allows others to rort the system"

And that's the way it should be. Welfare decisions should be based upon who needs it, not who rorts it.

If serving all people who legitimately need welfare means a few dodgy pricks also scrape through then so be it. I'm comfortable with that. Of course, the dodgy pricks should be caught and kicked off, but I can't abide by the downward-envy Liberal position that the biggest concern is welfare cheats.

The biggest concern is allowing less able people to live with dignity and not create an underclass.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 6:49pm

To keep things in perspective think Panama Papers. The amount of tax avoidance is orders of magnitude greater than welfare rorting. The Coalition would really prefer you not to notice that, so instead of addressing the problem they attack an easy target.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:04pm

and yet so easily fixed BB. all it takes is change in domestic tax laws. really makes you wonder.

though the skeleton is consumerism. you want, they provide, then you want more. now your addicted and they are in control. even the govt bows down.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:09pm

"...though the skeleton is consumerism. you want, they provide, then you want more. now your addicted and they are in control. even the govt bows down.."

And for that exact same reason - the companies have a market here - they won't pack up their operations if domestic taxes are raised, as has been argued by some Business Council-types.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:39pm

Fully agree with both of you .

The welfare net is probably our most defining trait as a nation. That oft vilified collective . The unarguable answer when people ask you exactly what is meant by Australian values and what entitles someone to feel the equally vilified pride in our society.

Having said that , its obvious that the system is being rorted well beyond any acceptable percentage in a necessary system.

It's possible to have an honest review of welfare whilst also seeking appropriate taxes from multinationals as well as any other whataboutery distractions you choose to raise.

The welfare system is as requiring of a top to bottom inquest as the banking system.

Let's not allow the political opportunism of the wretched LNP to diminish a pathway to improving the overall state of Australia by reducing waste of essential finances on piss takers.

And I didn't even mention my personal anecdotes regarding the dozen or so able bodied individuals I know that are reclining happily on the disability pension , one of whom is a literal millionaire. Almost didn't mention them anyway...

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:19pm

Actually the main offenders don't even need our consumerism. Think LNG.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:39pm

if AUS (as a small nation) went it alone on tax avoidance, would we get stung? (e.g. apple raises prices for us, spending drops/GDP sinks etc etc). does this require a multinational soln? btw, i know nearly nothing about the topic of tax avoidance, so more than happy to be told otherwise.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 8:05pm

The thing with trans national tax avoidance is that it's a zero sum game. Any profits that aren't diminished here enrich another nation either through their ( lesser ) taxation regimes or through capital inflow to provincial banks that then have the ability to onlend that cash to their host nations at cheaper rates than if they'd borrowed the money from international money markets.

So why would countries that are profiteering from asymmetric international tax structures even consider addressing the issue ?

That's why Trump's idea of reducing their corporate tax rate would be so successful while our LNP's similar plan would be a detrimental to our country.

The US is a business hub. Companies want to be located there but are reticent due to tax rates. If Trump reduces the tax rates then historically US companies such as Apple will repatriate their cash reserves that are currently languishing in offshore tax havens and therefore stimulating the US economy - Apple alone has an estimated $250 billion in cash offshore. The R and D alone that every dollar of this money could be employed in would benefit the USA exponentially .

But Australia is not a hub nor a large consumer base , merely a quarry or a drill hole or a margin market for existing product. There is no grand scale reinvestment resulting from lowering corporate tax rates in Australia . It's a profit enhancement scheme that will benefit the corporations and the recipients of their political ( and brown paper bag ) donations only.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 7:52pm

Profit flows into provincial banks?

Maybe some. A nominal amount. The far larger slice of profit flows into corporate dividends and largely taken out of the system.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 8:02pm

.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 8:03pm
stunet's picture
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stunet commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 8:05pm

And here I was thinking provincial bank meant the Bank of Bendigo.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 8:11pm

Illawarra mutual is closer to the mark.

You can't contradict my knowledge of the financial world , Stu.

I only recently finished a Paul Clithero book on investment that he released in 1995. Not that I really need advice , after all I borrowed it from the library rather than outlaying the $2 at a garage sale - I'm on my road to riches !

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Sunday, 18 Jun 2017 at 9:44pm

I have no problem with you being on the dole, Blowin. It's the best form of stimulus there is. I've said before out little business back in tassie relied on pensioners and the like.

My problem is you're a smart arse. A know it all. And a hypocrite of the highest magnitude.
Your "treaty" thread is an absolute smoke screen. Patronising bullshit. It only took a couple of pages for the "real" blowin to surface. Trumpeting the "we white people gave you everything" line.

But anyhow.....
Carry on.
Till next time.

Sheepdog

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Gaz1799 commented Monday, 19 Jun 2017 at 10:28am

The tax avoidance argument absolutely needs an international solution Happy, but unfortunately its a race to the bottom in which cuntry can offer the lowest tax rate or highest veil of secrecy with the lowest amount of compliance. Can't see Vanuatu coming up with any better ways of attracting the big bucks, or the same could be said for almost any island nation with less than a million people.

As Blowin said, "But Australia is not a hub nor a large consumer base , merely a quarry or a drill hole or a margin market for existing product. There is no grand scale reinvestment resulting from lowering corporate tax rates in Australia ."

All true. They don't want our staff (too expensive) or our skills, only our raw materials and marketplace full of overpaid consumers dumb enough to pay high prices. The tax return aspect of company reporting is woefully basic compared to the financial reporting side and the ATO only sees a tiny fraction. You can't benchmark companies of that size against an industry standard, and even less reliably if you only see one side of the equation (the Australian side). So I can't see how the ATO comes up with these imaginary numbers based on companies sending money offshore. I'm 99% convinced they just choose an astronomical imaginary number and then try and get multinationals to settle outside of court.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 19 Jun 2017 at 11:54am

Even better is the fact that the energy companies and most of the extractive commodities companies are only held to account for the exportation of product volume on quantities only they are aware of and which they are supposed to self assess.

Not dissimilar to your local Chinese restaurant only accepting cash payement then being expected to honestly inform the ATO of how many sweet and sour porks they have sold.

Except the product the commodities companies are selling belong to the commonwealth.

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sypkan commented Wednesday, 21 Jun 2017 at 7:47am

"....Klein asked whether, in order to fight global poverty, the U.S. should consider “sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders.” Sanders reacted with horror. “That’s a Koch brothers proposal,” he scoffed. He went on to insist that “right-wing people in this country would love … an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them...."

The minions of the liberal left have been feverishly beavering away , doing the dirty work of the koch brothers and microsoft...oh the hilarity!

"...Many of the immigration scholars regularly cited in the press have worked for, or received funding from, pro-immigration businesses and associations...."

"...'Academics face cultural pressures too. In his book Exodus, Paul Collier, an economist at the University of Oxford, claims that in their “desperate [desire] not to give succor” to nativist bigots, “social scientists have strained every muscle to show that migration is good for everyone.” George Borjas of Harvard argues that since he began studying immigration in the 1980s, his fellow economists have grown far less tolerant of research that emphasizes its costs. There is, he told me, “a lot of self-censorship among young social scientists.” Because Borjas is an immigration skeptic, some might discount his perspective. But when I asked Donald Davis, a Columbia University economist who takes a more favorable view of immigration’s economic impact, about Borjas’s claim, he made a similar point. “George and I come out on different sides of policy on immigration,” Davis said, “but I agree that there are aspects of discussion in academia that don’t get sort of full view if you come to the wrong conclusion.”"

That's academic speak for 'the cunts have been lying to you'

You can bag trump all you want but one thing he has done is save us from the dogma and delusionment of the liberal left.

Their 'best and brightest' just have not been living in the real world, and their academic arguments were reflecting the land of fairys and magic dust they inhabit.

And they think it's the public that have no idea...

https
://www
.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/

udo's picture
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udo commented Tuesday, 27 Jun 2017 at 8:13pm

Foreign Correspondent tonight .

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 2:51pm

I see the supreme spiritual leader of the right in AU is now up on child rape charges.

Lets see if the truth or should I say the facts now come out.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 3:05pm

Don't you think it's incredible the way an association of people with a declared devotion towards treating others with respect , love and kindness gravitated towards the traditionally heartless side of politics ?

If you've ever sought a definitive contrast between spiritualism and organised religion then the answer is - politics .

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 4:15pm

And isn't it fantastic to see Miranda Devine sweep in to defend ol' Georgie boy?

The Victorian police should be out there catching the real criminals, hey? Let the paedophiles and their enablers go FFS.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 4:25pm

Its an attack on Christianity.

As Jesus said : " Let my kiddie fondlers go unto others ."

So George made way for God's chosen rock spiders.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 5:07pm

Its a bad bad day for the righteous born to rule side of politics today.

Pell charged with sexually molesting and raping children, Abbott and his allies still running amuck in opposition to Turnbull and former Qld premier Campbell Newman is calling on Turnbull to resign.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/former-queensland-premier-cam...

Pell's response to the charges opened with an attack of the media .... fancy someone on the right attacking the media, now that's never happened before!

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 29 Jun 2017 at 5:37pm

I thought the corporate media were quite sympathetic.

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/headlines/pell-lend-hand-fighting-gay-mar...

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 12:24pm

We've all been conned, even the politicians.... Multi nationals and HUGE media organisations have realised the idiot politicians and governments enjoy being "on tv"..... Ego..

So, this "controlled political chaos" in all western democracies allows big corporations to "do their stuff" without being in the spotlight.. If governments and opposition are more interested in weekly polls and survival, then the likes of Murdoch, big oil, big pharma etc go on their merry way. The more in fighting, the more elections, the more "political reality tv" , the better.

It's ingenious, really

Sheepdog

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 12:33pm

Wow! A revelation?!

You read any Chomsky at all, Doggo?

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 1:13pm

Turk.... No.... I like picture books.

Sheepdog

loungelizard's picture
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loungelizard commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 3:11pm

anyone with a basic understanding of local politics would put the catholics on the left ( keating, DLP etc) and with a little more intelligence would separate this abhorrent behaviour from political pointscoring altogether.
(and btw guy, its "amok"..moron)

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 4:23pm

Putting Santamaria and his gang on the 'left' seems spurious to say the least. Especially after the split. He may account for the weirdness of the political affiliations now though. Abbott was his acolyte after all. Then again Emmet Costello was another one of Tony's mentors. And Shorten was educated a Jesuit to boot as well! Complex!

I agree the 'point-scoring' is distasteful, and not helpful.

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 4:25pm

lounge lizard,

ouch, that's the first time I been called a moron since, errr, yesterday.

historically I reckon you are bang on but it would pay to look closely at the preselections for safe liberal seat under Howard and since. Reckon there were very few joy joy down in my heart catholics in the liberals up until Howard but he saw in them and those preselected the economic and social conservatism that he was after. There are now large numbers of catholics in the so-called liberal party. You might remember the war that raged early on in Howard's prime ministership over so called "wets" and "drys" or small "l" and big "L" liberals and his "battle of ideas" that saw the defence of an Anglo/Celtic version of the history of Australia and thus always the denial of an apology to our Indigenous nations (see other forum topics for that chestnut). Howard opposed Marbo. Howard and his close allies saw the Fraser years as a waste of government because Fraser didn't really cut government expenditure nor introduce the sort of political and economic reform that would become the hallmarks of the Hawke/Keating years.

What is happening with the conservatives here and elsewhere shows there beliefs and values as it manifests as policy is in terminal decline. New battlefields like the definition of marriage further highlights how they are increasingly ill relevant, just like their church and its predator priests.

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 8:24pm

What sort of pictures sheepy? Don't tell me. Now I know where all my centre folds of Dame Edna went.

davetherave

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 10:35pm

Dave..... Well you can't go past Dr Seuss... lol

Sheepdog

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Friday, 30 Jun 2017 at 10:59pm

I personally liked marcel marsoux's talking books.

davetherave

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 4:23am

Capcha is a cunt

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sypkan commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 4:22am

I reckon my $100 bucks is looking pretty safe

"Even news producers at CNN, the chief engine that drove the collusion fairy tale, were caught on camera admitting that the entire story was mostly “bulls—t”. And one producer added, “And so I think the president is probably right to say, ‘Look, you are witch hunting me.’"

From a CNN producer no lass!

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/27/cnn-journalists-resign-latest-exampl...

https://amgreatness.com/2017/06/28/late-great-russian-collusion-myth/

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 3:04pm

http://www.carvemag.com/2017/06/brazilians-save-aussie-surfers-life-dese...

Lucky , lucky fella.

Sometimes the crowd is the best thing that's ever happened to you .

Clam's picture
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Clam commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 4:19pm

Thats a worthwhile one to read .
He was getting shacked longtime before the accident , Must have been a big one down the grower ? Hope he returns to ride again.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Saturday, 1 Jul 2017 at 5:26pm

Wow, glad he's ok.

Ignorance is Zen

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tonybarber commented Sunday, 2 Jul 2017 at 8:40am

Good news on Nathan at deserts.

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 2 Jul 2017 at 9:43am

That's heavy...it's scary the reality of what can happen surfing anywhere but especially in Indonesia over shallow coral reef and especially in remote tropical locations.

Ada gula, ada semut!

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 11:12am

Hey Sheepdog, any views on the current health of the Liberal Party and their chances of reelection?

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 4:01pm

"Holy preferred pm poll", guy smiley!!!!!!
Wow..... Where do I start...... As long as Bilge Shortbread is leader of labor, Malcolm has a remote chance.
In regards to Abbott and his nutty ways, there is a silver lining. As everyday passes, the soylent green consuming primates in voterville realise that dumping Abbott was the right choice. If I was in the moderate camp, I'd be pushing this all the way..
So even though Turnbull disgusts me now, trying to be as objective as I can, if the moderates in the Liberal party are brave, they could possibly fall in to power...
However, bravery and Turnbull are rarely mentioned in the same breath. I know what i would do if Malcolm Dawg was leader..... There'd be all hell breaking lose.... And you'd be back at the polls in about 8 weeks. bahahahahaha

Sheepdog

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 4:17pm

I haven't totally figured this shit out but the current disunity in the Libs is ripe for exploitation. Think of the way Howard wedged Labor over boat people splitting the camp into traditionals and progressives, well someone smarter than me should be looking for an issue that does the same to Libs.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 4:59pm

Stu..... There's a big difference... Howard was in government when he wedged Labor.

But here's what I'd do if I was PM..... I'd sack Abbott... I'd sack Kevin Andrews, Tony Pasin, and Michael Sukkar, sending the strongest message to the liberal party far right that their days are over. I'd call an election, and...... Well..... Australia would see a strong leader standing up for the people.
I'd say that when in opposition, I watched Shorten, Combet and Howse tear the Labor government apart, and I will not sit here as leader and watch a bunch of extreme ideological terrorists do the same thing to the Liberal party. Our party is for the "majority with the quietest voice", not the minority with the loudest.
In this next election you have a choice - Bill Shorten and his weak underhanded ways, or My new government, and government that does not put the reputation of a few before than needs of the many..

That's how I'd deal with it....... All or freekn nothing lol

Sheepdog

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 5:35pm

hey Sheepdog & Stu, my 2 cents worth ....

With Rudd, Gillard, Rudd it was all about who was going to be PM i.e. very little difference in policy positions. With Abbott and Turnbull its also about who will be PM but mostly about "the soul of the Liberal Party" i.e. policy. This Abbott/Turnbull war therefore has the potential to be way more destructive. Further, I would argue that its not just Abbott in the conservative corner as per Sheepdog's list other conservatives include Abetz, Hastie, Dutton etc etc within the Liberal Party plus the Nationals and Bernardi. I'm unaware of the exact numbers of true conservatives within the Liberal Party but it would be significant: it is interesting that Abbott is arguing that conservatives must "take back" their party .... WTF the Liberal Party (Menzies tradition) was centre right with a focus on supporting families so his statements show how delusional Abbott really is.

So if Turnbull tackles Abbott over an issue like gay marriage or Finkle suddenly its not just Abbott it maybe 10-15 Liberal MPs or Senators plus the Nationals he is taking on.

It is also interesting Abbott sees e.g. Finkle/energy as an issue he can "wedge" Labor at the next election to "achieve government" rather than an issue the country needs sensible policy debate/development ... same old pugilist that made a brilliant opposition leader but made an appalling PM.

From Labor's point of view I would think its in their interest to have Turnbull survive to the next election with the 2 current oppositions all the while highlighting policy difference / conservative infighting.

Anyone else sees the possibility of ALP/DLP like spilt in the LNP after the next election?

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 5:47pm

That split proposition was put a while ago on here somewhere. Abbott was a Santamaria acolyte to boot.

Fuck Hanson. Let's get behind the Tones resurgence!

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 6:28pm

Guy, when Turnbull rolled Abbott, the vote was 54 to 44.
Even less support Abbott now. And many in the party know that if Abbott was to challenge, and the unthinkable happens (Abbott wins), Turnbull would quit , creating a bi election.. And I think the voters in Turnbulls seat would punish the new liberal candidate.. So liberal mp's could find themselves in opposition.

Either way, we're fucked..... In fact we're fucked over 3 ways..... Turnbull, Abbott, or Shorten.
2nd saddest time in Australian political history..

Sheepdog

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 7:06pm

yeah, too true Sheepdog, lets hope we wake up from this nightmare sometime soon. When did what's good for the country get dropped from political life.

davetherave's picture
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davetherave commented Monday, 3 Jul 2017 at 8:59pm

Another perspective. Number one. Polling shows little interest
So, you create interest. Not an election year so you create hyperbole about something that don't matter, dress it up to appear it does, hype this to journalist when other journalist are getting sacked meanwhile cross ownership laws are being diluted all at state of origin time and well, cynicism, does it have its place in murdochiam society?

davetherave