What's what?

Well, when one reads posts like weener boys, and some of happy's, one realizes the dire extent of "dumbedownedness" that has infected the masses. It's pointless even responding... An absolute waste of energy.

An interesting take I read on the recent "poll" about muslim immigration....

"The poll was run by a company called Essential Media. They mostly do market research. Their source is an online polling company called Your Source. Your Source encourages people to register to be part of their sample audience with prizes and give aways. Once a week, an 'omnibus' poll is done, and these questions were put in one of these. The poll was sent out to 8000 people on their register and was answered by around 1000. "

Having read that, one would have to ask; What demographic register for online polls to be part of their sample audience with prizes and give aways? If brexit can be used as an example, you'd rule out "under 28yo's ", who could hardly be bothered to vote... British and Australian under 28s are fairly similar.... It surely wouldn't have a large number of 28 to 50 yo's, most of who are busy working and being parents to be overly involved in filling out polls for ikea vouchers...... That would leave the over 50s..... Again looking at Brexit, the over 50s voted leave in massive numbers...... So, it doesnt surprise me that a poll on muslim immigration, with a massive number of over 50s taking part, would come back with 49% supporting banning muslim immigration...
It's a dodgy poll that doesn't represent all demographics...

Pointless? Run out of energy? "whats what" is a marathon remember, dont blow yourself in the first 37 pages.

Its the journey that matters.

Nope, Happy....... Pointless......

Jeez ok Happy, I'll have a crack - I may or may not be anywhere near the mark.

The way I see it, nationalism in the form of flag waving, normalisation and veneration of the military as well as sport is a means of sending out signals to a section of the population that the politicians think is large enough to keep them in power and thus, be able to implement their ideology. Hence why the right wing don't want average people to be educated, in case they can see through this.

Making the military beyond reproach supports certain ideologies such as supporting the U.S.'s industries - this is the price we pay for being a U.S. lapdog.

So yes, I think the far-right has fascist tendencies in that it wants to control the population by any means fair or foul. Throw religion and racism in the mix as well as almost all the powerbrokers being wealthy men (include people like Gina Reinhardt in there as well) and it's ugly.

As for selling off our country.
The nationalism described above IMO has little to do with "looking after Australia", it's all just a means of control. The powerbrokers are happy to sell shit to the highest bidder and I suppose that this is often foreigners. So we aren't really governed by politicians, we're governed by big business and multinationals who are manipulating "democracy" for their benefit.
This is all patently obvious yes? Hence the current big backlash against globalisation a.k.a. multinationalism.
In addition, the conspiracy theorist in me comes out when there's such a massive push for cosmopolitanism i.e. if you don't accept everything coming in from overseas and if you want Australia for Australians then you're
a) xenophobic
b) racist
c) a backward looking, insular protectionist

I don't know if this social pressure is only a by-product of current thinking or if it's been manufactured.

As for the internet - as shown by the global warming "denier" scenario, the internet can just as easily be used to cast doubt on an issue and cloud facts as it is for "freedom'.

I think that whether or not the internet can be used freely for good is still very much being played out. Wikileaks and Snowden's leaks are cases in point.

I'm optimistic that the internet is too convoluted to ever control fully (unless you're in a country which really is fascist, then you're screwed) but if you give Google or Facebook or whatever too much power and they fall under the influence of the big heavy boys, then all bets are off.

I'm knackered, that was more 400m than marathon.

considering this appraisal of cosmopolitanism , xenophobic, racist and backwatd lookung don't seem so bad

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/opinion/sunday/the-myth-of-cosmopol...

chinese investment is a sham, that doesn't mean chinese people are bad, it just means successive australian governments have fucked it up

Nice post Sypkan.

I think the article puts forward some interesting points - are we not so much racist as classist or "tribeist"?
We're best friends with that black person or Asian person as long as they're of a similar class.
You can relate to their experiences, their upbringing - they use the same slang, indulge in similar pastimes.

I'll never forget being on the New York subway with my black American girlfriend.
She's well spoken, works at the Four Seasons, had a middle class upbringing.
Can she relate to the loud, street, Brooklyn crew across from us who hail each other as "niggers"?

Not a chance.

Surely these days, genuine cultural differences are along class or tribal lines rather than "race"?

yeh you're onto it andym

definitely classist, but more so tribalist, enabled by a certain level of wealth and education

you meet some pretty cool cats in travel hubs like bali, but even amongst these people a boring homogeneity definitely has developed, as the article states, the eccentric travel rats are definitely a rare breed these days.

bali also blatantly shows how exclusive globalism and freedom of movement is, with warung owners living under a relentless stream of international jet planes, day and night, having never even experienced a domestic flight, nevermind going overseas.

the article does raise some good points, especially for surfers with their propensity to travel and colonise

the last paragraph is particulary damming but accurate

"They can’t see that their vision of history’s arc bending inexorably away from tribe and creed and nation-state looks to outsiders like something familiar from eras past: A powerful caste’s self-serving explanation for why it alone deserves to rule the world."

Ok, AndyM.... I'll spent 10 minutes writing a pointless post for happy and ween that wont make one iota of difference, beacause when cement has set, it sets for good..... But still, lets talk to concrete, shall we?

Weener dick writes - "concerns expressed ad infinitum on this thread aren't on the front pages of every newspaper in the land"
- well, pin head NewL is sort of right wing if you haven't noticed...... As if they'd write anything with a human view.........And Fairfax plus the guardian DO have these concerns...... So there's one stupid comment dealt with....

Weener writes - "What fools these refos are, wanting to come to a gulag like Oz." -
The refo countriesyou are talking about, which troops have been there for the past ten years, befriending villagers and trying to build up trust? making vegemite sandwiches and giving them to kids, watching them pull faces when they taste and laugh? So when the shit hits the fan and these people run, what countries would first come into their minds? it'd be the countries of the troops that were there protecting them...... there's 2 stupid comments dealt with.....

Happy writes - "still waiting for a response on how our "selling off of our country to foreign buyers" sits in this whole crazy new fascist australia we live in?"
Google "trade agreements and the globalization of fascism". Globalization is a euphemism for the replacement of nation-states by imperial financier-run corporate cartels..... Take it from there....

BTW you do realize you just dont wake up one morning and go "oh no I've got fascism", right? It's like skin cancer..... it takes time...... It slowly develops, but by the time you realize, a lot of damage has been done....

Happy writes;" how does our freedom to information on our uncensored internet fit in with our fascist leaders? ok ok....you win.....they did make a law to censor internet piracy....ha ha ha."

It fits in perfectly...... Think about it.......

Oh sheepbanger, you still don't get the message...if you keep writing shit, I'll be forced to respond! You are clearly delusional and border-line literate so I'll spell it out slowwwwwwwlllllyyyyyy for you and your fellow fuck-knuckles.... NO-ONE BUT COMMIE-LOVING TERRORIST SYMPATHISERS LIKE YOU THINK OUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY WITH ALL OF ITS BLESSINGS IS A PROBLEM. Australia is THE DESTINATION OF CHOICE FOR ALL REFOS CAUSE WE BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR THEM. Maybe if you and talkingshit, batdroppings, etc don't like it you can do us all a favour and fuck-off to North Korea or China where everything is as you would like it to be. Let me kow if you want to start-up a 'gofuckme' page and I'll happily donate to your (one-way) airfare.

Weenerdick, thankyou for reinforcing point 1, 8, and 9.......

And when you can't even follow a debate and have to deviate onto a little 'commie loving" B.A santa maria spiel, it's pretty obvious you're too far gone....
Speaking of China, Target has the new made in China Australian flag in stock.... Your old one would be covered in spit, semen, immigrant blood and urine by now....
Better get in quick before us commies burn them all, loser.

Sheepbanger, love your originality! How can I compete with your 10 commandments? Were they discovered by Mohammed, Mussolini or Mao? Please supply a carbon-date so we can verify their authenticity.
PS I'm sure that Real Truth (sic) Now is a reputable and household name amongst Commie-lovers, but no-one else that I'm aware of could give a flying fuck about them.

I can't believe how little you give a shit about your country ween, why do you bother living here??

The biggest problem is apathy. The majority of aussies have been suckered into a life created by corporate capitalism underpinned by religious dogma. Watched old movie with mate the other day and was blown away by its blatant and subliminal social conditioning messages. Mate hadn't noticed but movie made sense to him after my explaination. Hollywood and other popular culture producers have put most people in a trance. Follow the money trail and fascism is alive and well and the politicians ultimately answer to them as do the media who pretend to be the public
advocate but in truth are propaganda merchants. The whole thing is a power grab that grows on the need to control. It ultimately fails because it makes slaves of the perpertrators.

The problem with that list Sheepdog is most of the points are not true and many we are even going the opposite way from.

If you are talking society in general as it's not just talking about governments.

in order:

1. Most people these days are less and less patriotic, even if we were attacked by another country most of us including me would say fark that I'm not risking my life or dying for my country..

2. Individual rights are at an all time high in Australian history, even minority groups that make up a tiny percentage of the population have a big voice and get much focus and spending and have more rights that ever.

3. Sadly this is just how the world runs, the bigger a country becomes the bigger your defence force needs to be (i do wish we would keep our noses out of other countries business though, defence force?...defend what, they should be called attacking forces)

4. Bit of truth to this one in Australia with TV and Newspapers, but i guess it depends where you get your media from, but with things going more online the options on where you get your news are almost endless.

5. Historically in Australia this has always been the case, Liberal governments do tend to be more Christian based, but id say overall our governments are moving away (even if ever so slowly) from being Christian based to what it should be in a secular government.

6. Okay can't argue with this one and Liberal governments are the worst for this.

7. Not sure what this means? ( i think it means, Liberal type policy around pay rates and conditions and unions etc)

8. I guess you could always find examples to back this, but in general i don't think it's the case.

9. Same as above.(yes I'm sure you will give examples)

10. Yes true but i don't expect this is so new, one good thing is we don't have a culture of political dynasties in Australia like the USA, that would really suck.

Ha ha....look forward to your reply Sheepdog, I'm sure you will come up with examples to prove me wrong, i really think it's about perspective and how you look at things.

PS. "I googled the Labor power suppressed " and kind of get it now...and came up with this website...i guess the source of where they got this list, but they left out the other 4 points? http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

reading the comments on here, it appears most people think the facisn is coming from the left

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/23/code-of-race-ethi...

Indo I expect this list was written with the U.S. in mind - points 1,3,4,5,6,7, 8, 10 can, without question, be applied to them.

More to the point, I think it's very important to be aware of lists like this to keep us aware and vigilant.
As much as it breaks my heart, Australia is desperately trying to be more like the States every day, and this includes the LNP in particular being very happy to get more intimate with many of the points on that list.

Witness in Australia -

1. Increased use of flags, normalisation of militarism, glorification of past military exploits, politics regarding immigration etc (which is a red herring anyway, pure dog whistle).

3. This is an obvious one, including I.S., immigration, Border Force, heavy advertising for "heroic" Army and Army Reserves

4. Concentrated media ownership, another obvious one, which links heavily to the promotion of other points

5,6,7 are obvious, especially the LNP's constant efforts to keep labour down. Casualisation of the labour force and issuing of 457 visas etc have had a profound effect on large parts of Australia

8 and 9 are clear as well, especially when you think about global warming evidence

So the point being, has fascism taken hold in Australia?

Almost certainly not.

Do certain political parties in Australia have fascist tendencies, and will they veer towards fascist methodology if allowed?

Most likely yes.

Worth being aware of and worth keeping a close eye on.

guys, not to mention that over the past years our governments are becoming progressively more minority based. this doesnt fit in with fascism at all. in fact its the opposite.

Happy writes ; "guys, not to mention that over the past years our governments are becoming progressively more minority based. this doesnt fit in with fascism at all. in fact its the opposite."

What's that got to do with it? "Doesn't fit in with facscism"?????????????
Did Benito Mussolini get into power with a majority, did he?
Did Francisco Franco get into power with a majority?
Did Hitler?

Your "in fact it's the opposite" comment is baseless. And we are now in a new era of .com fascism, where political parties are puppets for the fascist corporate elite.... Sedition laws, metadata laws, names on census forms, changes to laws so that people can be detained indefinintely without charge.... I could go on and on, Happy, But as I said, it's pointless..... you and I have been chewing the fat over this and other issues for over a year..... Name one pov that I have gotten you to change your mind on...... Not one, mate..... So the best thing about smacking your head against a brick wall for ages is it feels great when you stop....... lol..... Cheers, mate.

pointless? well, only if your goal is to change the opinion of the other person. i engage your posts to uncover what new information i might learn from your and everyone else. id say i might even be incrementally smarter than i was a year ago, thanks to you.

Happy I feel optimistic regarding the apparent diversification of Australian politics too.

However I think that you're missing some key points around the whiff of fascism that's been in Australia in the past 15 or so years (and probably much longer e.g. the sacking of Whitlam).

First, it largely transcends federal politics.

Globalisation and/or American power by proxy is designed to circumvent the sovereignty of nation states. Actually I don't like to mention the U.S. because all this goes outside of nations.

In Australia, governments are leaning towards "fascist" methods outlined above because they are dancing to the tune of the real powerbrokers i.e. multinationals, mining magnates, the usual suspects.

These corporations utilise the power of people like Murdoch for reasons previously discussed.
So the concern is that depending on how entrenched things get, a change of "Australian Government" will make little difference.

What do you reckon would happen if a new political party decided to nationalise key assets?
Have you read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"?

What do you think is happening in Venezuela right now?

We've moved well beyond the old ideas of fascism represented by Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.

Nice compliment Happy!

Yep agreed Andy it's basically how you look at things.

BTW. If a government owns and runs things like electricity company, telecom companies, bank, roads, public transport etc where does this sit in with things???

Obviously now all those kinds of public assets the government once owned and run have been or are being sold and privatised in Australia.

BTW. I guess this is related I think there is a trend of nationalism around the world if look at Jokowi in Indonesia, Duterte in Phillipines, Trump in USA, maybe even issues in Europe, support for people like Pauline in Australia. (maybe other countries but i don't know as don't really follow their news)

I don't think it's just related to the terrorism issues or islamphobia or refugee crisis i think the internet has a lot to do with it, the worlds just got smaller it was all good at first now it's kind of a little backlash, with anything good there is also some bad, life is all about balance (ying and yang)

A bit of a backlash to things being pushed a little too far to the left also.

http://www.surfingmagazine.com/video/tyler-wright-most-barreled-gal-tour...

Worth another look.

you're spot on indod,

ie. a backlash to globalisation, and a bit of terrorism too, which you could argue has been exacerbated by globalisation, and in turn the refugee crisis. people freaked when they saw those streams of people, it's kind of fair enough, as even merkel admitted she fucked that one up the other day

it's a big push back to the left, who sold their souls to neoliberalism/globalisation. the public might have accepted it, if we didn't have to sit through 30 years of belittlement for asking reasonable questions, while the elites bought and sold the world

what worries or amazes me is, in every counrty there's people feeling rripped off, who's the winners?

if everyone wants out of things like the TPP, you've got to wonder who's been getting the spoils?

I actually think this patriotism/nationalism thing is totally overstated. the nutjobs like reclaim Australia are a tiny minority, but if the elites from the left don't start listening, that could change real quick.

I think lumping resistance to globalisation with the type of nationalism above is a big mistake. there's a heap of people who can see globalisation has been a bit of hoax who would never ever associate with reclaim Australia morons. there are many types of nationalism, they're not all bad, especially if your country is being sold from under your feet

the left's still in denial though, still sprouting the same crap, calling everyone dumb, saying everything would be fine if everyone just thought like them

but a few months on from brexit you can smell the desperation as they are slowly realising. the change in language ifor articles at the guardian is particularly telling. this week the articles about clinton sound like they've thrown in the towel altogether

Indo says "BTW. If a government owns and runs things like electricity company, telecom companies, bank, roads, public transport etc where does this sit in with things???"

Indo I'm not an economist or political analyst but these are my thoughts.

Countries with the economic setup you describe can vary from a communist dictatorship like North Korea to countries with a democratically elected government but more socialist leanings.

Australia has a democratic socialist model (to a lesser extent these days) as do many countries, notably France and the Northern European/Scandi ones.

However, there're a lot of examples in Central and South America where democratically elected governments have tried to go for a more socialist setup and the U.S. has overthrown the elected government in favour of an economic setup more favourable to U.S. interests.

This has regularly been by installing violent and oppressive right-wing regimes.

So much for the U.S. being a righteous supporter of freedom and democracy.

This is playing out as we speak, certainly in Venezuela and probably in Brazil but of course real news is hard to come by - it's unbelievable that there is almost zero news about Venezuela and for mine this is no accident.

Point being, as evidenced all over the world including Australia, it's extremely difficult for a nation to hang onto it's utilities because the jackals and vultures are lurking and influencing media and all levels of government.

Seems to me that looking after the citizens is a secondary concern.

Of course a government using fascist tactics will find it much easier to deal with public opposition to the sell offs.
Governments also seem to have other tricks up their sleeve including economic lies (" competition") and PC language ("you're a rascist/zenophobe") to try to quell dissent across various socio-economic groups.

nope, not missing anything Andy. i get it completely, and did so from sheepdogs first post. but what your describing isn't fascism. its simply neoliberalism. there is no need to reinvigorate a word with strong historical connotations that bear little resemblance to what we see today in the global corporate power markets that you describe.

Yes we're talking about neoliberalism but neoliberalism is a financial and economic theory, a way of looking after the private sector of the economy.

Any talk of fascism in this context is related but still separate.

Fascism (as we are talking about) is the authoritarian system of government which, in this case, is looking to implement neoliberalism or globalisation.

As previously mentioned, I see modern fascism as either implementing the wishes of big business and/or chasing power for its own sake.

I really disagree that the term fascism should be anchored in Europe in the '30s and '40s and can't be applied any more.

And I believe that elements of fascism are absolutely present in the U.S. and that we should be very wary here in Australia as well.

when I started out the gov't provided most services, health ,education ,uni, phone/post ,only regional tv, radio jj, a bank, transport ,the dole,housing, electricity , everyone was a member of a union, safe retirement, and the country was paranoid of communists,now we are paying for most services, more and more taxes, bullshit super funds and politicians that can't be trusted.

Tworules, especially when you throw in casualisation of the work force and the cost of real estate, the bulk of Australians are way worse off then a few decades ago.
But the rich are richer - funny that.

and the needy find it difficult to get assistance when you can't afford insurance and credit .One time you were paid in cash minus the tax, now its just a mathematical nightmare hoping that everyone is honest with their cut but don't fall behind or the business can fine you and add interest.

Cheers, happy.... Thanks.... Mate I also have been pretty flat out singing for my supper lately... Cant really put the time in.

Is the west on the wrong side of history?

A major development in the Muslim world this week.

a development that arguably could do more to slow down groups like ISIS than the trillions of dollars the US has spent in it's 'war on terror', our' war on terror',.. .and there has not been even a minor mention in the mainstream media.
Kind of surprising considering every single terror attack, there are calls and questions around Islam, and about why Muslims don't call out terror attacks.

Well right wing nut jobs (and left wing media, especially you guardian, you pathetic piece of shit) here's Muslims calling out terrorism. Two distinct (often warring) groups calling out terrorism, and not even a whisper from media in the west.

American primacy is on the fall across the word and history books may show we were the evil ones.

.independent.co.ukvoices saudi-arabia-attacked-sunni-shia-leaders-wahhabism-chechenya-robert

thefreethoughtprojectpulitzer-prize-winning-journalist hillary-sarin-gas-attack-syria-assad/

cant post with links,
is swellnet in on it too? joking...I hope!

google the broken links above for details

canada is into it, introducing a tax on foreign investors to control an unaffordable house market. a bit quick fix maybe, but better than denial

the whole story sounds very familiar

“A huge amount of housing in London is being bought up by offshore companies to avoid paying tax,” she adds. “In my area in north London, overseas companies bought up £2.5bn of property in just four years and avoided hundreds of millions in stamp duty.”

Berry’s concerns are shared not only by the left. The Bow Group, a conservative thinktank, issued a paper last year in which it talked of a global super-rich elite, some of them criminal, snapping up property in London, pushing up costs for existing residents and throwing the poor to the edges of the city.

The report’s author, Daniel Valentine, traces the phenomenal increase in London house prices to the mid 1990s, when three factors came together: a sudden surge in population, the explosion in buy-to-let lending, and the entry of China and Russia into the global economy, producing a global elite seeking a safe home for their cash"

.theguardian.com
/cities/2016/sep/30/vancouver-canada-house-prices-solution-super-heated-housing-market

As the Lord Dickfist's shit-circus further descends into hollow farce here, at least (for now) we can laugh at the even stupider goings-on from the conservative side of the fence in the good ol' USA.

The US Guardian has got an article entitled: ‘Donny, you're out of your element’: the 2016 election in 15 Big Lebowski quotes.

Sub-title: Sometimes there’s a man … and we’re talkin’ about the Donald here … and sometimes there’s a film. And sometimes the two go together surprisingly well.

In it, the question is posed - how do quotes from The Big Lebowski predict, echo or explain the rise of Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election?

Some of the examples (as per usual, the comments below the actual article is where you'll find the real gold):

“You have no frame of reference here, Donny. You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie …” – Walter Sobchak to Theodore Donald Kerabatsos, who also has not held publicly elected office. See also Hillary Clinton, Lester Holt, Chris Christie and pretty much everybody to Donald Trump after the first presidential debate on Monday.

“What was all that shit about Vietnam? What the fuck has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about?” – The Dude to Walter, after the attempted disposal of Donny’s ashes. See also John McCain and thousands of very angry veterans to Donald Trump, June 2015.

“Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude – at least it’s an ethos.” – Walter on the subject of nihilism and nihilists. See also comments of David Duke, Trump supporter, former Nazi and current Senate candidate, July 2016.

“Do you speak English, sir? Parla usted inglés?” – The other, richer Jeffrey Lebowski, to the Dude, with less wise words similar to something Donald might have said to the president of Mexico before not mentioning that he wants him to pay for a wall.

“Does the female form make you uncomfortable, Mr Lebowski?” – Maud Lebowski, to the Dude. See Alicia Machado, Rosie O’Donnell, Megyn Kelly, Maud Lebowski and 157 million American women, pretty much constantly, since last summer and probably from now on.

“Shut the fuck up, Donny” – The world to Trump, from his campaign launch at Trump Tower in Manhattan on 16 June 2015 to 7 November 2016, the eve of the most consequential presidential election in decades.

“I love you, but sooner or later, you’re going to have to face the fact you’re a goddamn moron.” – The world to America, 8 November 2016, as America votes in the most consequential presidential election in decades.

“Nothing is fucked? The goddamn plane has crashed into the mountain!” – The world to itself, 9 November 2016, the day after the most consequential presidential election in decades. Possibly.

"Mark it zero!"

- Donald Trump to his accountant, when asked about income tax paid

"All right, it's fucking zero. Are you happy, you crazy fuck?"

"Like Lenin said, look for the person who will benefit. And you will, uh, you know, you'll, uh, you know what I'm trying to say--"

"I am the walrus."

"That fucking bitch!"

"Yeah."

"I am the walrus."

"Shut the fuck up, Donny!"

trump to world:
you don't fool the donald! It's bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man! I would've fucked you in the ass Saturday, I'll fuck you in the ass next Wednesday instead!

I'm sure some of Walter's comments about Jesus Quintana would be appropriate (or not) considering how Trump thinks about his daughter.

"I've said if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her.” - Donald Trump

Dude: Fucking Quintana--that creep can roll, man--

Walter: Yeah, but he's a fucking pervert, Dude.

Dude: Huh?

Walter: The man is a sex offender. With a record. When he moved down to Venice he had to go door-to-door to tell everyone he's a pederast.

Donny: What's a pederast, Walter?

Walter: Shut the fuck up, Donny.

If you really want to know what's what have a look at the piece on the Panama Papers on the New York Review of Books. Read it and weep. Crimes against humanity is not a strong enough term!

Jesus christ, turkmanistan.... I've seen those monty python fans that can recite every sketch..... But this is serious......

Eight year olds dude...

Robert De Niro to Trump is Gold.

Udo, I think De Niro is a pin head.